News:

"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed." - Jesus

Main Menu

Subjectivism and the chair

Started by Beck Nergal, August 11, 2017, 12:53:21 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

POFP

Quote from: Ziegejunge on August 11, 2017, 03:50:33 PM
Hi new person!

Quote from: Beck Nergal on August 11, 2017, 12:53:21 AM
How can we possibly consistently evaluate anything's A-ness?

What about Uranus' A-ness? How deep does this A-ness hole go?!!

:lulz:
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.

Q. G. Pennyworth

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 11, 2017, 05:01:37 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 11, 2017, 02:02:34 AM
I can make a sandwich with poptarts or hot pockets, but they are not themselves sandwiches.

Is an open-faced sandwich a sandwich?

Because it it is, a poptart is a sandwich.

But agreed on hot pockets.  They are basically a more horrible than usual calzone.

An open faced sandwich is not a sandwich. Neither is a burrito, a hot dog in a bun, or a wrap.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 11, 2017, 07:43:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 11, 2017, 05:01:37 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 11, 2017, 02:02:34 AM
I can make a sandwich with poptarts or hot pockets, but they are not themselves sandwiches.

Is an open-faced sandwich a sandwich?

Because it it is, a poptart is a sandwich.

But agreed on hot pockets.  They are basically a more horrible than usual calzone.

An open faced sandwich is not a sandwich. Neither is a burrito, a hot dog in a bun, or a wrap.

Who makes all these fuckin' rules?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Q. G. Pennyworth


The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

A=A because "A" is a game rule.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO on August 12, 2017, 03:37:08 PM
A=A because "A" is a game rule.

There's always some shady chick from back east willing to homebrew the rules.  Drow PCs. Half-dragon templates.  Fucking sandwich-nerfing.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cramulus

Quote from: Beck Nergal on August 11, 2017, 12:53:21 AM
There are so many bullshit questions without actual answers about concepts and the nature of things that we can't be certain about chair-ness. How can we possibly consistently evaluate anything's A-ness?

Hi new guy!


So, for the most part, I'm with you - I operate with the premise that meaning and identity is something generated by us meat people in order to make sense of the chaos, not an inherent property of stuff in the universe. So meaning is best understood as a social construct. The best meaning is the one with the most operational utility - that is, the one that "best fits" our internal models of how the world works. A chair is a chair because we agree that it's a chair, despite that our definition of a chair is going to be fuzzy and have edge cases. There is no essential chairness somewhere in conceptual space. The physical chair is not an expression of some quintessential chair.

And if we connect the dots from that logic, we arrive in a (perhaps) terrifying universe with no inherent meaning. My man Camus says that this is okay, because our generated meaning is enough. Things can be meaningful for personal reasons, even if those reasons aren't some fundamental truth. Meaning is absurd, but let's dance with it anyway.



All that being said, I'm at a phase in my life where I am trying to find my way through the postmodern tunnel. I am exploring a reality tunnel in which there are capital-T Truths out there, however they probably don't have anything to do with the essential nature of chairs. I think there is a form of Meaning and Purpose which does exist, and it has to do with our relationship with the chaos/cosmos, and the edges of it can be discovered through self discovery.




It's a little tangential to your post, but I get the sense you may dig Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, which unpacks Aristotle's analytical knife, the way he splits up the universe into distinct parts, and the deep rifts this has caused today (namely by cleaving apart the arts and sciences, rational and aesthetic, into different metaphysical categories)

Freeky

Quote from: Beck Nergal on August 11, 2017, 12:53:21 AM

A isn't A. The second one's an Alpha.

A isn't A. The first one is an upside-down stick figure devil head.

A isn't a.

A isn't A

A is A, but only because I copied and pasted that first A to where the second A is. And those two As after aren't the same A. And fuck it, those first two As also aren't the same, either.

There are so many bullshit questions without actual answers about concepts and the nature of things that we can't be certain about chair-ness. How can we possibly consistently evaluate anything's A-ness?

So, I have a rebuttal to this.

A is A, if you are typing in good faith and not deliberately doing something funky with your meaning, like an upside down devil head. When typing, A has the same value every time. It never moves on your keyboard, and you always have to push the shift key at some point before hitting the a key.

Mathmatically speaking, A = A. You can't have A = A and the first A = 2 and the second A = 9. That's not logical as far as math through highschool goes. Don't know about higher maths.

One the other hand, A is not A in the sense that they are different points in time. Even copy/paste does not make them the same, because 1) you have to select the first A and then copy it, then paste it, making the process completely different, and 2) they are different points in time.

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

Quote from: Beck Nergal on August 11, 2017, 12:53:21 AMThe more I think about it, the more I recognize that Plato and Ayn Rand were both full of crap

Wait... The fact that Plato was full of crap isn't immediately apparent to some people?
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago