Is anyone here an advocate for non-violence?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So much anger.

I'm beginning to suspect that most of you come here to vent by pretending you want to be violent.

You're a gaslighting ass-clown, and you're still a troll.  Go fuck around on facebook, you useless cunt.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

first appearance: is obvious troll
second appearance: 'guys it was just an experiment, i've decided not to be a troll', is still obvious troll.

Exactly this.

My money says he's pals with Jonathan Bost.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

There is also a very good chance this is Navcat, who is spouting the EXACT SAME SHIT, word-for-word, on FB.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

IP is a proxy, currently routed through Holland.

[IPunchNazis]

Not to keep being needlessly critical, but something else I've noticed about the most frequent posters here: Anytime someone new comes along and has anything remotely contrary or engaging to offer, you puff up, hold hands, start name-calling, and proceed to muse about it being a sockpuppet for some other (usually oddly specific) individual. Paranoia, insularity, and hyperreaction all rolled into one.

This really is a delightful if elaborate front you manage.

Still, my question stands, and I think my position is clear. If there are any non-chest-beaters that frequent the board, I'd be glad to have you chime in.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not to keep being needlessly critical, but something else I've noticed about the most frequent posters here: Anytime someone new comes along and has anything remotely contrary or engaging to offer, you puff up, hold hands, start name-calling, and proceed to muse about it being a sockpuppet for some other (usually oddly specific) individual. Paranoia, insularity, and hyperreaction all rolled into one.

This really is a delightful if elaborate front you manage.

Still, my question stands, and I think my position is clear. If there are any non-chest-beaters that frequent the board, I'd be glad to have you chime in.

You are posting on a proxy, and you are not new here.  So fuck off with your bullshit.  Seriously.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Not to keep being needlessly critical, but something else I've noticed about the most frequent posters here: Anytime someone new comes along and has anything remotely contrary or engaging to offer, you puff up, hold hands, start name-calling, and proceed to muse about it being a sockpuppet for some other (usually oddly specific) individual. Paranoia, insularity, and hyperreaction all rolled into one.

This really is a delightful if elaborate front you manage.

Still, my question stands, and I think my position is clear. If there are any non-chest-beaters that frequent the board, I'd be glad to have you chime in.

no, lol. actual new people get treated like human beings until they prove themselves not to be such. you, on the other hand, are not new, your "points" are not new, your "questions" are not new, your approach is definitely not new. just tossing in the "maybe i was wrong" thing in your OP doesn't mean anything when you go directly back to the same tired shit within 3 posts.

[Cramulus]

When I first signed up, you all clocked me for what I was: a troll. But a few of you actually understood the joke: that my intention was to hold to you a mirror-image caricature of the seemingly addicted-to-violence mentality that pervades this board.

oh yeah, I said this:

Alright let me put on my goggles. The "IPunchNazis" character is playing on the recent liberal uptick in antifascist violence. Essentially, satirizing the enthusiastic liberal nazi puncher who is swept up by the chest pumping tribal machismo which antifascism lets him express  dot dot dot, implying antifascist violence is more or less equivalent to fascism, dot dot dot, liberals are cuck hypocrites who only take a moral high ground against certain kinds of violence, etc etc. Okay that's basically the end point, right?

I merit there might be bait here for that argument. I would be curious to hear what the person playing this character thinks the proper use of violence is, like, how do you distinguish between "good" and "bad" violence? I would love to have that talk but I think they need the mask, so all we get is this kinda uninspired caricature troll.

eh what can you do

so I guess you're here for the latter part now? that's cool, I can roll with that.

Bottom line? Well, I sure like the idea of nonviolence, but I'm also not convinced that it can always solve things on its own. Nonviolent appeasement of Hitler sure didn't work.

So I now must admit that I have to consider that the aggressive and confrontational element is a necessary evil, so to speak, and that the problem cannot be resolved (I.E. the alt-right's agenda defeated) without it. Perhaps the far-right has indeed become a very real threat with another civil war on the horizon.

I am still, however, surprised to see so many Discordians hungry to participate in the violence. Are there any of you, like me, who aren't? Who would, if anything, attempt subvert it instead of willfully helping to immanentize it?

I appreciate the straightforward chat. I hadn't really thought much about antifa in the context of how Malcolm X slid the Overton Window left.

My perspective is - I don't think that violence is an effective long run strategy. What I've observed is that violent action is super effective as a recruitment tool for "the other side". It doesn't change minds. If I got punched in the face for my political beliefs, I wouldn't stop believing those things. In fact, I would probably justify them harder. If I continually feared bodily harm, I'd just go underground and get louder.

Punching nazis is forgivable when they are advocating violence & actively recruiting. Punching the peaceful but angry guy standing near the nazi--mainly counterproductive.

On a more emotional level - One of my pet research hobbies is the history of torture. I keep this close to my heart: For thousands of years, we lined up in public squares to cheer as the "bad guys" were subject to horrific ordeals. That was "justice". That desire - to see the bad guy bloodied and dragged through the streets - is one of the scariest things about humanity. Especially when its expressed by a crowd. We all have these brutal impulses, and live in a society that conditions us not to act on them. But when somebody "deserves it", we are chomping at the bit for the opportunity to unleash hell on them. I try to guard myself against this kind of 'pleasurable' violence, and warn others not to feed it.

((The Crowd at the Ball Game))



That being said

Violence was already playing a role in the larger conversation. Not to focus too hard on the rallies, specifically - but there are a lot of people out there who are in fear of bodily harm on the daily. For example, I have trans friends who live in Texas, and they are regularly subjected to hostile harassment on the street and other public places. Using a public rest room is a scary moment for them right now. They have a public facing job and consequently receive lots of transphobic threats.  Knowing that if a public incident happened, there would be people willing to fight for them - that's a good thing.




On the side - I'm not a fighter, myself. I haven't thrown a real punch since college. I imagine I would get laid out in any fight I was in. This probably plays a role in how much violence I advocate 

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Not to keep being needlessly critical, but something else I've noticed about the most frequent posters here: Anytime someone new comes along and has anything remotely contrary or engaging to offer, you puff up, hold hands, start name-calling, and proceed to muse about it being a sockpuppet for some other (usually oddly specific) individual. Paranoia, insularity, and hyperreaction all rolled into one.

This really is a delightful if elaborate front you manage.

Still, my question stands, and I think my position is clear. If there are any non-chest-beaters that frequent the board, I'd be glad to have you chime in.

I've gotta say I've seen this too

[Junkenstein]

There is also a very good chance this is Navcat, who is spouting the EXACT SAME SHIT, word-for-word, on FB.

Dead concepts as of 2017:
Satire
Irony
Subtlety
Innocent bystander
Empathy

[IPunchNazis]

so I guess you're here for the latter part now? that's cool, I can roll with that.

Yours is the one name I recognize - a collegiate among the drop-outs!

I appreciate the straightforward chat. I hadn't really thought much about antifa in the context of how Malcolm X slid the Overton Window left.

It's an interesting comparison, albeit different circumstances. I'm having a hard time trying to pigeonhole ANTIFA. Do they only exist because the alt-right exists? Or are they some darker element that serves only the undoing of true freedom? I'm weary of making heroes out of anarchists whose primary role seem to be escalation of tensions. Trying to think in the "big picture" as much as possible. I'm not a fan of aggression being used to silence disagreeables under the assumption that it's pre-emptive self-defense.

My perspective is - I don't think that violence is an effective long run strategy. What I've observed is that violent action is super effective as a recruitment tool for "the other side". It doesn't change minds. If I got punched in the face for my political beliefs, I wouldn't stop believing those things. In fact, I would probably justify them harder. If I continually feared bodily harm, I'd just go underground and get louder.

Punching nazis is forgivable when they are advocating violence & actively recruiting. Punching the peaceful but angry guy standing near the nazi--mainly counterproductive.

On a more emotional level - One of my pet research hobbies is the history of torture. I keep this close to my heart: For thousands of years, we lined up in public squares to cheer as the "bad guys" were subject to horrific ordeals. That was "justice". That desire - to see the bad guy bloodied and dragged through the streets - is one of the scariest things about humanity. Especially when its expressed by a crowd. We all have these brutal impulses, and live in a society that conditions us not to act on them. But when somebody "deserves it", we are chomping at the bit for the opportunity to unleash hell on them. I try to guard myself against this kind of 'pleasurable' violence, and warn others not to feed it.

((The Crowd at the Ball Game))

Wholeheartedly agree. Although I love the word "schadenfreude", I have an aversion to what it describes. Not that I'm immune to it; I have experienced it, and that experience terrifies me. Its avoidance is conscious and active, rather than natural.

Violence was already playing a role in the larger conversation. Not to focus too hard on the rallies, specifically - but there are a lot of people out there who are in fear of bodily harm on the daily. For example, I have trans friends who live in Texas, and they are regularly subjected to hostile harassment on the street and other public places. Using a public rest room is a scary moment for them right now. They have a public facing job and consequently receive lots of transphobic threats.  Knowing that if a public incident happened, there would be people willing to fight for them - that's a good thing.

Agreed. I've heard a few things about people who chose to attend the Charlottesville rally not to antagonize, but to stand guard with local entities, churches, etc., in case the rally-goers themselves turned riotous. That is something I strongly admire.

[Freeky]

I'm having a hard time trying to pigeonhole ANTIFA.

That's probably your problem.

[IPunchNazis]

You are posting on a proxy, and you are not new here.

Didn't claim that I was new (although arguably I am, since this is the first time I've posted anything genuine) (as far as you know), but merely that I've noticed the same behavior directed at new people who don't purr and kitten their way around your ankles. Tribalistic mentality is my best guess. No greasing the wheels for me, thank you. I'd rather call it like I see it. Still, just because someone refuses to sugar-coat doesn't mean they want to rustle jimmies. Personally, I'm apathetic.

As for using a proxy, I'm surprised the rest of you don't. Still, there is a difference between paranoia... and precaution.

[IPunchNazis]

I'm having a hard time trying to pigeonhole ANTIFA.

That's probably your problem.

I would say that it's the country's problem.

[IPunchNazis]

I too vehemently oppose the moloch of racial, ethnic, and cultural purity. I dream of a world where nobody has fewer than three different racial backgrounds; where there is no white of black or asian or jewish or arab or whatever, just people who are mixed, really really mixed

With no desire to sidetrack the conversation into one of eugenics, I see this as inevitable. I'm not sure it will ever boil down to such a low number, but probably that the lines will blur so much that there is no longer any hard place where the divisions lie. I look forward to a day where humanity treats the color of skin like the color of hair. Especially if it means being able to buy the one you like in the beauty section of CVS.