Author Topic: Postergasm Brainstorm  (Read 1083 times)

Q. G. Pennyworth

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Re: Postergasm Brainstorm
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2018, 10:27:27 pm »
I like this, but I would drop the small print on the Trump one.
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Pope Pelvis Flirtini

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Re: Postergasm Brainstorm
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2018, 01:41:37 am »
Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let’s try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.


Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

The last bit is either a strawman or a misunderstanding. It's not cooperation that surrenders identity, but assimilation.

All forms of cooperation require some degree of assimilation. To what degree someone must assimilate in order to cooperate, I think, is what the smartest libertarians are wary of.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 02:15:01 am by Pope Pelvis Flirtini »
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Re: Postergasm Brainstorm
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2018, 02:11:54 am »
I've always been bothered by people who declare they did everything themselves. I have probably been guilty of saying it. But I still have a gut instinct to spew at others about how they couldn't possibly have built their empire with their own two hands.

In this light, I submit a bit of a rant:

"We've all heard you talking about how great you are. Bootstrap-puller-upper. You need nothing but a knife to survive.

Well, show us. Demonstrate it. Do. The. Experiment.

You must remember how it started. When your dad drove you through the forest and mocked you for not being able to survive one night in the wild. "If I dropped you off right here, with nothing but your underwear and a pocket knife, how long do you think you'd last?" Well, got an answer yet? When was the last time you tried? You can take it easy on yourself and you don't even have to report the results to anyone. Bring a sleeping bag and some GORP and iodine tabs. I'm curious though, how much fear does just thinking about actually trying that engender in your guts?

Oh, so you're more of an intellectual? You'd make your money in the stock market, if only you had enough seed money? Well Sparky, you can do that experiment too. It doesn't have to be real money. Give yourself whatever you think you need to start. Maybe 1k, 10k, $100,000? Give yourself whatever time you want. Two months, 6 months, two years? It's fake money so just keep track of your buys and sells with a spreadsheet. I want to know - have you actually done it and reduced it to practice? Or are you full of shit?

Oh but you're an artisan? Fine. Give up your day job. Move to a new country. Truly start over. Make your own workshop. Build your own equipment. Trade goods for canvas and mix your own paints. Document the whole thing and sell the movie rights. There are a few people who've done it. I look forward to hearing your story.

But if you haven't done the experiment. Do me a favor? Vote. Pay your taxes. Stop for the school busses. And otherwise - Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

You will note that I don't need to address those that do the experiment. The real world has a way of humbling the prideful. It helps us realize how well we work with others and how much we depend on the kindness and altruism of other bipeds."

nullified

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Postergasm Brainstorm
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2018, 07:07:52 am »
I've always been bothered by people who declare they did everything themselves. I have probably been guilty of saying it. But I still have a gut instinct to spew at others about how they couldn't possibly have built their empire with their own two hands.

In this light, I submit a bit of a rant:

"We've all heard you talking about how great you are. Bootstrap-puller-upper. You need nothing but a knife to survive.

Well, show us. Demonstrate it. Do. The. Experiment.

You must remember how it started. When your dad drove you through the forest and mocked you for not being able to survive one night in the wild. "If I dropped you off right here, with nothing but your underwear and a pocket knife, how long do you think you'd last?" Well, got an answer yet? When was the last time you tried? You can take it easy on yourself and you don't even have to report the results to anyone. Bring a sleeping bag and some GORP and iodine tabs. I'm curious though, how much fear does just thinking about actually trying that engender in your guts?

Oh, so you're more of an intellectual? You'd make your money in the stock market, if only you had enough seed money? Well Sparky, you can do that experiment too. It doesn't have to be real money. Give yourself whatever you think you need to start. Maybe 1k, 10k, $100,000? Give yourself whatever time you want. Two months, 6 months, two years? It's fake money so just keep track of your buys and sells with a spreadsheet. I want to know - have you actually done it and reduced it to practice? Or are you full of shit?

Oh but you're an artisan? Fine. Give up your day job. Move to a new country. Truly start over. Make your own workshop. Build your own equipment. Trade goods for canvas and mix your own paints. Document the whole thing and sell the movie rights. There are a few people who've done it. I look forward to hearing your story.

But if you haven't done the experiment. Do me a favor? Vote. Pay your taxes. Stop for the school busses. And otherwise - Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

You will note that I don't need to address those that do the experiment. The real world has a way of humbling the prideful. It helps us realize how well we work with others and how much we depend on the kindness and altruism of other bipeds."

Good rant indeed.

I have indeed done the experiment (several different ones you’ve suggested in fact — against my will), and you know what?

There is only one way I have consistently found to end in success. Ask for help and offer it in turn.

I have survived since 2014 doing that, with my only support network being random strangers online. Four years of living the “stranger in a strange land” bit, surviving on good will and good intentions and nothing else, far from home with nowhere to turn but back to the electronic overmind of humanity if something collapses. Nothing to offer but hopes and fishing expeditions in the void in case of emergency.

I’m since convinced that the “self made man” of any stripe, even if false but especially if true, is in fact a failure mode of the human condition.

EDIT: That is to say, a “self made man” is a broken individual in the same way as a serial killer or an incel or a Nazi. They have forsaken their own membership in humanity in the mistaken belief of their own superiority. When you take the humanity out of the human, it’s hard to say that you’ve made a successful human, no matter what acts they go on to perform.

Edit2: forgot the right word
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 07:13:51 am by nullified »

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Re: Postergasm Brainstorm
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2018, 01:09:36 pm »
It sounds to me like the question is, "When did your individualism start?"

Don't know if this is a series of images, a set of short paragraphs, what have you.  Anyway.  With all these scenarios, a small set of cases do not apply, but I feel that's not our target demographic.  There is also a lot of assumed privilege.  I know this.  Finally, I will be using absolutist language, don't @eprime me.

Infant, at mother's breast.  No one could really believe that a baby is a rugged individual.  Almost by definition, and certainly by pragmatic standards, there must be reliance on others.

Child in a library.  No need to keep with the parental archetype at this point.  But a child learns; and more often than not, they learn through the wisdom of others, be it time-imprinting ideas in a book, or another person sharing knowledge.

Young adult in the capitalist system.  They are reliant on bosses to provide money, for stores to provide food, for rentiers to provide shelter.

Middle adult, business owner.   Corporations and government systems provide water/electricity/transportation/infrastructure.  Note that corporations and governments are combined here, as the point is not what structure provides support, only that it is impossible for the individual to thrive without it.

Senior citizen.  Depends on financial institutions and government to provide income/support/stability until death.


Ask the target demographic to point to the place in their lives they ceased being dependent on a larger society for assistance.



Scenarios can be added/adjusted/improved.  Please do so.

Doktor Howl

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Re: Postergasm Brainstorm
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2018, 04:03:24 pm »
I've always been bothered by people who declare they did everything themselves. I have probably been guilty of saying it. But I still have a gut instinct to spew at others about how they couldn't possibly have built their empire with their own two hands.

In this light, I submit a bit of a rant:

"We've all heard you talking about how great you are. Bootstrap-puller-upper. You need nothing but a knife to survive.

Well, show us. Demonstrate it. Do. The. Experiment.

You must remember how it started. When your dad drove you through the forest and mocked you for not being able to survive one night in the wild. "If I dropped you off right here, with nothing but your underwear and a pocket knife, how long do you think you'd last?" Well, got an answer yet? When was the last time you tried? You can take it easy on yourself and you don't even have to report the results to anyone. Bring a sleeping bag and some GORP and iodine tabs. I'm curious though, how much fear does just thinking about actually trying that engender in your guts?

Oh, so you're more of an intellectual? You'd make your money in the stock market, if only you had enough seed money? Well Sparky, you can do that experiment too. It doesn't have to be real money. Give yourself whatever you think you need to start. Maybe 1k, 10k, $100,000? Give yourself whatever time you want. Two months, 6 months, two years? It's fake money so just keep track of your buys and sells with a spreadsheet. I want to know - have you actually done it and reduced it to practice? Or are you full of shit?

Oh but you're an artisan? Fine. Give up your day job. Move to a new country. Truly start over. Make your own workshop. Build your own equipment. Trade goods for canvas and mix your own paints. Document the whole thing and sell the movie rights. There are a few people who've done it. I look forward to hearing your story.

But if you haven't done the experiment. Do me a favor? Vote. Pay your taxes. Stop for the school busses. And otherwise - Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

You will note that I don't need to address those that do the experiment. The real world has a way of humbling the prideful. It helps us realize how well we work with others and how much we depend on the kindness and altruism of other bipeds."

Boom.
Well, that's hardly my fault.  I was just doing what I do, doing my little dance, singing my little song, you know?  And then Hirley0 got on the dance floor and said

SHAKE THAT
First ^  Then V

And I did.  I didn't feel like I had any choice.  Between P-Funk and Hirley0, I became the man reptillian menace I am today.

Bootsy Collins did this to me.

Doktor Howl

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Re: Postergasm Brainstorm
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2018, 04:07:45 pm »
Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let’s try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.


Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

The last bit is either a strawman or a misunderstanding. It's not cooperation that surrenders identity, but assimilation.

All forms of cooperation require some degree of assimilation. To what degree someone must assimilate in order to cooperate, I think, is what the smartest libertarians are wary of.

We're humans.  You are to some degree part of the pack, or you are driven out of the hunting grounds...Because if you're NOT part of the pack, you are a threat as well as competition.  That's just two million plus years of genes and conditioning.  Arguing against it is fine, you can do that all day, but that is in fact how it works.
Well, that's hardly my fault.  I was just doing what I do, doing my little dance, singing my little song, you know?  And then Hirley0 got on the dance floor and said

SHAKE THAT
First ^  Then V

And I did.  I didn't feel like I had any choice.  Between P-Funk and Hirley0, I became the man reptillian menace I am today.

Bootsy Collins did this to me.