A challenge for all Bush-Haters

[Malaul]

Hay guys!  ur all dumb lol!

I just posted that pic in my LJ the other day
nice

[wild rose]

I dare anyone to name one good thing he has done. The only thing I have ever heard people claim as good is that he has taken a strong stance against terrorism, but even there he failed as indicated by his continued dealings with the saudies.

When Bush declared war on terrorism, he set us up for a war we can never win. How does one go about destroying something as intangible as "terrorism"? What is terrorism to us is God's will to someone else. This is a war that will never end. That is, until Bush had eliminated every living being on this planet except himself and his yes-men.

Just my 2c

[Wishfarple]

I just posted that pic in my LJ the other day
nice

It most certainly is!  Where'd you find that in the first place, anyway?

[Malaul]

Uhmm you know Im not sure
lemme see if I can find it again

[agent compassion]

I wasn't aware that I could only post here if I wanted to debate politics

Well, that's funny, coming from someone who has managed to make all their conversations here so far about politics, even if they didn't start out that way. Threadjacker! Lie in your own mess and whine about the smell for all we care.

[gnimbley]

Hmm, agent, I seem to remember it being a point of distinction that
no discussion on this board stays on topic. For instance, this
discussion of Bush's speech now seems to be about a picture of a,
uh, baby harp seal?

Whatever.

I just watched Bush's speech. (I recorded it off CSpan.) And I have
a couple of additional comments.

First, it reads a hell of a lot better than Bush read it. His delivery was
flat. A real dud. He got mostly polite applause until almost the end.
It was a real snooze fest. So, so much for my comments about its stirring
nature and the gathering drums of war. Listening to it, even though I
knew what he was going to say, I found it pedestrian. A mere collection
of phrases. No coherent strategy or momentum. Certainly didn't get
anyone in a lather to go storming into Iran.

Second, Bush mentioned the Homestead Act of 1862 as an example of
America's definition of liberty. The Act gave head of every household a
160 acre plot of land. This included former slaves. However, it was
mostly Indian lands that Lincoln gave away. So it was liberty for us. And
theft from them. Unfortunate symbolism? Or an example of what they
think is true liberty?

Finally, CSpan had a shot when Bush was talking about freedom of a
young man and a young woman being led away by three police officers.
The young man raised his arm and held up two fingers in a peace sign.
One of the officers ran up to him and grabbed his arm, forcing it down. In
his speech Bush said, "Yet rights must be more than the grudging
concessions of dictators. They are secured by free dissent and the
participation of the governed." Unfortunate symbolism again? Or is free
dissent only acceptable when it is in protest of "dictators?"

That's all for this looney anti-American gnome. Good night.

[President Bush]

Did you see me? Did you see me?

I did good, didn't I?

Yeah.

[agent compassion]

Hmm, agent, I seem to remember it being a point of distinction that
no discussion on this board stays on topic.

True, but I notice that VoT can't bear to have them drift off the topic of politics.

Anyway....

Did you see me? Did you see me?

I did good, didn't I?

Yeah.

How are we going to tell him that his mom dropped him on his head  when he was little?

[Chaplin Sinatra F]

I can't speak for the others, but I'd just like to state for the record, VoT, that I am intolerant of your beliefs and I don't bother reading your arguments. However, I don't get all of my information from Michael Moore, because he's as much of a rich capitalist douchebag as Bill O'Reilly is, and Fahrenheit 9/11 wasn't hard enough on Bush, (yes, I'm serious) and was obviously created solely for the purpose of getting money from liberals.

[Demonica, Oracle of Doom]

"Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!"

I mean, that one fucker said "I want to kill him".  Boy, that's nice.  I have better things to do than DEBATE politics with people who feel this way.  

I'm the fucker who said I want to kill bush.  

I'm so sorry.

I apologize.

I don't want to kill bush.

I want to torture and kill bush!  



::feeds Voice of Truth to Devil Squerrel::


"One of the interesting initiatives we've taken in Washington, D.C., is we've got these vampire-busting devices.
A vampire is a ,Äî a cell deal you can plug in the wall to charge your cell phone."
,ÄîGeorge W. Bush, Denver, Aug. 14, 2001


"But I also made it clear to (Vladimir Putin) that it's important to think beyond the old days
of when we had the concept that if we blew each other up, the world would be safe."
,ÄîGeorge W. Bush, May 1, 2001

[Cain]

Cocaine.

Best thing said so far.  By anyone.  Want to share Trojan Man?  I hope you bought enough for everyone....?

[Trojan Man]

::plops a pound of cocaine on the forum::
Getcher fresh coke!  I Robin Hooded it straight from the white house!  Weeeeeeehaw!

[Cain]

My analysis of Bush's speech.  I have a few questions also as I dont normally listen to US Presidential speeches much.

"After the shipwreck of communism came years of relative quiet, years of repose, years of sabbatical - and then there came a day of fire. "

Likening Islam to Communism in the threat it poses, perhaps on one level correct, fundamentally wrong in another.  Also, rather Bilical in its imagery.  Is that normal for a Bush speech?

"For as long as whole regions of the world simmer in resentment and tyranny - prone to ideologies that feed hatred and excuse murder - violence will gather, and multiply in destructive power, and cross the most defended borders, and raise a mortal threat.

There is only one force of history that can break the reign of hatred and resentment, and expose the pretensions of tyrants, and reward the hopes of the decent and tolerant, and that is the force of human freedom.

We are led, by events and common sense, to one conclusion: the survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. "

Basically, prepare to be invaded if you do not share the American conception of freedom,  You "will" be liberated even if you dont want it, as it were.

"America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one.

From the day of our founding, we have proclaimed that every man and woman on this earth has rights, and dignity, and matchless value, because they bear the image of the Maker of Heaven and Earth. "

Worrying, is he saying that America's vital interests are Christian, as America is an allegedly Christian country?  Also, Im not sure about that second paragraph.  I know the Constitution protects freedom of religion, but did it say that man was made in Gods image? I camt recall that, and it sounds like a near Bible quote again.

"Across the generations we have proclaimed the imperative of self-government, because no one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave.

Advancing these ideals is the mission that created our nation. It is the honourable achievement of our fathers.

Now it is the urgent requirement of our nation's security, and the calling of our time. "

Sounds like he is trying to find historical and ideological justification for further "regime change".  Also, he could theoretically claim it is then un-American and unpatriotic to oppose such actions in the future.

" This is not primarily the task of arms, though we will defend ourselves and our friends by force of arms when necessary.

Freedom, by its nature, must be chosen, and defended by citizens, and sustained by the rule of law and the protection of minorities. "

When is necessary?  Like Iraq was necessary?  Is he makin sense, saying it must be chosen, yet America is going to spread it?  How?  Meddling in intenal affairs of foreign states is an act of war.  Every first year International Relations student knows that.

"America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling.

Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom, and make their own way. "

Again, like in Iraq and Afghanistan?  Dont they have an esentially western based system of Government?  Ive heard nothing about the traditional, yet democratic Maljis al-shouras (religious councils, in which clerics each have a vote) being set up in either state.  yet they are part of the culture and history of both countries.  Or is it that they'll allow democratic institutions that are homegrown so long as they follow the western model?

"The great objective of ending tyranny is the concentrated work of generations.

The difficulty of the task is no excuse for avoiding it.

America's influence is not unlimited, but fortunately for the oppressed, America's influence is considerable, and we will use it confidently in freedom's cause. "

Prepare for the long haul, we've only just started?  And what influence are we talking here?  Diplomatic?  Military? Aid (withdrawl or promise of)?

"My most solemn duty is to protect this nation and its people against further attacks and emerging threats.

Some have unwisely chosen to test America's resolve, and have found it firm.

We will persistently clarify the choice before every ruler and every nation: the moral choice between oppression, which is always wrong, and freedom, which is eternally right. "

Do not threaten us, you saw what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We say we stand for freedom, so we are right.  Anyone disagreeing is therefore automatically wrong.

"America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains, or that women welcome humiliation and servitude, or that any human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies."

Unless they are a US citizen/Muslim and run foul of various anti-terror laws

"We will encourage reform in other governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the decent treatment of their own people."

What relations?  Clarify for fucks sake!  Miliraty, economic, what are we talking about here?

"Division among free nations is a primary goal of freedom's enemies."

You must stick with us.  Thats you, Europe.  You're terrorist loving scum otherwise.

"Make the choice to serve in a cause larger than your wants, larger than yourself - and in your days you will add not just to the wealth of our country, but to its character."

Your country is more important than you.  Kind of reads like sections of Corinthians in the Bible, saying to obey the state is a great good.

"This is the broader definition of liberty that motivated the Homestead Act, the Social Security Act, and the GI Bill of Rights."

Homestead Act?  Carving up Indian lands, if I remember my American West history module correctly.  Nice to see someone wants to keep the tradition of agressive expansion.

"Americans move forward in every generation by reaffirming all that is good and true that came before - ideals of justice and conduct that are the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Kind of looks like he is using past victories to justify modern ones.

" Liberty for all does not mean independence from one another."

We reserve the right to stick our nose in where it may not be wanted.

"From the viewpoint of centuries, the questions that come to us are narrowed and few. Did our generation advance the cause of freedom? And did our character bring credit to that cause?"

You're being judged.  Better act nice now, espescially given the choices are few.  Also inference of destiny that worries me alot.  People who talk about destiny, with such power, are inherently unstable.

"We felt the unity and fellowship of our nation when freedom came under attack, and our response came like a single hand over a single heart.

And we can feel that same unity and pride whenever America acts for good, and the victims of disaster are given hope, and the unjust encounter justice, and the captives are set free."

Denying our response to 9/11 is inviting new rifts in society.  Doing so is rocking the boat.

"Not because we consider ourselves a chosen nation; God moves and chooses as He wills."

Unless you dont believe in Him.  Could he get fatalistic, like Denethor in LOTR,if he starts losing a military encounter?

"History has an ebb and flow of justice, but history also has a visible direction, set by liberty and the Author of Liberty."

He's getting all "Destiny" like again.  Does he think he is the "Author of Liberty"?

"Renewed in our strength - tested, but not weary - we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom."

Oh shit.  He sounds like he's got a Messiah complex, maybe thats normal American political hyperbole, but anyone tried this over here, the silenced pistols would already be handed out by now  When people start talking about "destiny of nations" and "direction of history" I get worried.  he also seems to think victory is inevitable, which isnt true.  He also seems to be overplaying the freedom card, everyone got it by the third paragraph.  What is he pre-emptively trying to justify?

[gnimbley]

We will encourage reform in other governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the decent treatment of their own people.

Caught this one later. I guess we are now going to start putting the
screws to Saudi Arabia, China, Pakistan and the rest, right?

[LMNO]

VoT, you're so touchy!  But I do enjoy how you respond in such an indignant manner to the jibes & mockery, and yet, we would (sort of) quiet down if you just addressed the more salient points raised by gnimbley, Thwack, Scribe, & myself.  Hell, your initial post challenged us to listen to the speech.  We did, we posted our thoughts, and you simply ignored & dismissed them.

This opens you up to full-scale derision.  As they say, you started it.

Anyway,

I know the Constitution protects freedom of religion, but did it say that man was made in Gods image? I camt recall that, and it sounds like a near Bible quote again.

The second paragraph of The Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."  I do believe that this is what Shrub was referring to.  It is indeed a stretch to go from that to the "in his own image" reference of Genesis, and also note that The Constitution (technically the day the coutry was "founded") came 13 years after the Declaration, and after the Articles of Confederation, as well (and, they don't mention God, either).