I think it's time to write off the progressive demographic.

[Pergamos]

Its shit like this that makes me long for secession. This shit has been irreparably broken for decades now and All the systems put in place that could've possibly fixed it has also been smashed. I say let the West coast, New England, and Texas break off to do their own thing, and let Trump rule over the ashes. I say tear this clunker down for parts and start over.

I gotta ask, what makes you think your state would be smarter on its own?

My state has legal weed, gay marriage, and quite decent universal health care.  We also have the two richest men in the world and strong ties with the whole pacific rim.  We've got strong environmental laws and quite good public transport.  We held onto net neutrality when Trump got rid of it for the nation.  There's plenty wrong with local government, but nowhere near as much as there is wrong with national government.  I am fairly certain things would be better here without Texas and Florida and New York and California thinking they have any right to tell us how to run things.  Things would also be better here if folks would quit trying to tell Alaska and Arkansas and Vermont and Oklahoma what to do and focus on our own back yard.  I actually think things would even get better in the states that are explicitly stupider than the federal government, at least in the long run, because they'd have nobody else to blame for their problems.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

*starts a thread to snipe on leftists*

“Why does the left hate itself so much?”

I dunno man, maybe you could spend more time helping to organize and inspire people on your side rather than attacking leftists for attacking leftists who fail YOUR purity test.

Since when is describing, in detail, and advocating against a self-defeating movement within one's closest political equivalency the same thing as attacking one's own political equivalency?

Kinda takes me back to that leaked CIA (Or was it KGB?) document describing ways counter-intelligence operatives throw stones in an organization's efficiency by filling their meetings with useless nonsense and complaints to waste time and resources. In this analogy, you're the guy defending these useless complaints by attacking the people trained to spot this counter-intelligence technique.

"WAHHHHHHH, Aren't YOU just slowing down this organization by pointing out this pattern of disarray? WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

You may think you're advocating for progress with this childish crybaby fest, but you're really just holding it back. Exposing this pattern of disarray is important, and making sure the rest of the movement is aware by putting it into digestible writing is even more important.

I’m advocating actually doing things instead of just whining about it.

It’s critically important to point out these problems, but that’s really quite useless without organizing to overcome them.

I’ve observed Roger for quite some time and he seems more interested in widening rifts on the left than actually accomplishing common goals.

Also, it is not necessary for a saboteur to split the left when there are plenty of leftists like Roger who do an excellent job of it on their own.

WTF?
It was Roger who advised in 2016 to "hold your nose and vote for Clinton".
Which I did. And I hate that "must be brought to heel", Democrat-in-name-only cunt. I lived through eight years of Billary, during which time my kids were little and I was on welfare because that was the only way to stay home, and they killed that. So who's watching the kids? I won't go into that here. Suffice to say that the trauma and bullshit outlasted the Clinton administration.
But hey, y'know what? We're used to that kind of shit. As Roger said, "We lived through it. We might not live through this."
And I went forth, and took a couple of shots of gin, and held my nose and voted for Hillary.

That is NOT what I would call "splitting the left". Voting for a bitch you hate and would relish knocking her teeth into the back of her throat in order to present a united front against the fucking nazis is just the opposite.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Thing is, back to the basic, original issue:  There is a sector of the progressive left that is already attempting to torpedo anyone on the left that does not meet their standards of purity, even if - especially if - it means the GOP maintains its stranglehold.

We are more or less being promised punishment for insufficient purity, the same way Trump is holding immigrant children hostage for his wall. 

And I know myself well enough to know that I don't respond well to extortion.

Uniforms. Huddling under a blanket sniffing each others' farts. Etc.

I don't respond well to ANY of it.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

It’s safer to predict failure and do jack shit from the sidelines, isn’t it?

The obvious solution, which is also the simplest one: Unite, organise and fight for change (through demonstration, awareness campaigns, legislation).
This requires setting aside any differences and selecting a simple achievable goal ( The U.S is currently the only first world nation voluntarily becoming a third world nation, a clear objective would be to stop that).
When you have a large enough body of people, change is easy to accomplish: starve systems of control of money, support the systems that align with your beliefs.

However, historically people will only unite when the boot has ground deeply enough into the collective faces. We should have learned from history at this point that we know we need to do this now before it gets worse.
The Conspiracy have learned a lot of new tricks (Alexa please open a channel to my observers, please give them an update that I have been thinking subversively again, tell them to up my superhero media injection to make those bad thoughts go away). They are more effective at the old tricks too, when the boot stomps it stomps fewer times and you get driven into the dirt faster.

The boot ground the people to powder some time ago. Otherwise there would have been at least an assassination attempt on the Tangerine Shitgibbon, and somebody would have at least tried to blow a hole in the walls of the concentration camps and get the kids out of those fucking dog kennels. (I am not advocating this as it's certain death, but doesn't someone, somewhere have inoperable cancer or just not give a fuck?)

The people lost their nuts. And here we are.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I AM NOT N E T.

But I do call myself progressive (or at least way left of the DNC).

So: the DNC platform has adopted and moved towards a few of the progressive/Sanders ideas, namely: single payer healthcare; universal basic income; increased minimum wage; criminal justice reform; climate change.

I don't think this would have happened without a lot of people loudly asking for it from their local/primary elections. But I could be wrong.

In the "small steps" strategy, this is what would be expected from a grassroots push against the Democratic moderate status quo that currently exists in Congress.

It should be noted, however, that when the Big Bet is on the table, not voting for the "not perfect, but more probable" is akin to voting for the "a shit demon" option.

"The lesser evil is still an evil.
But it's a LESSER evil."

Stella
USA (& probably has Stockholm Syndrome at this point.)

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

It was about an endless parade of people on FB (and one here, apparently), who tell me that we're better off with actual Goddamn Nazis than we would with an admittedly flawed democratic candidate.

OK this is really starting to piss me off [and NB remember I'm a Brit here] but does it say somewhere in the sodding Constitution that everyfucker in fucking Trumpistan has to mindlessly parrot that Hillary Clinton was "an admittedly flawed democratic candidate" ? We are talking about politicians people, they are all bloody flawed, did you not get the memo? I am just about sick to screaming that one of the best candidates for the presidency in a long while will go down in history as "admittedly flawed" It is like some kind of verbal tic that your whole damn nation has developed; its the ultimate unifying force that underlies the notion of Americanness; I have never heard any other candidate tarred with this brush before. Hillary must be so delighted to be unique amongst her peers. Everyfucker and his dutch uncle, every time the woman's name is mentioned, they just can't help themselves they blurt out "admittedly flawed" before they even think about it.

Just because she has a twat doesn't mean she's a good person.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I AM NOT N E T.

But I do call myself progressive (or at least way left of the DNC).

So: the DNC platform has adopted and moved towards a few of the progressive/Sanders ideas, namely: single payer healthcare; universal basic income; increased minimum wage; criminal justice reform; climate change.

I don't think this would have happened without a lot of people loudly asking for it from their local/primary elections. But I could be wrong.

In the "small steps" strategy, this is what would be expected from a grassroots push against the Democratic moderate status quo that currently exists in Congress.

It should be noted, however, that when the Big Bet is on the table, not voting for the "not perfect, but more probable" is akin to voting for the "a shit demon" option.

What I'm saying.  Ideally, we'd run the place like Norway.  It CAN be done.

In practice, though, allowing the Perfect to murder the Good Enough in favor of "Orange Colostomy Bag Nazis" isn't "making the world a better place."  I guess, though, that it COULD be called an accomplishment, same as Amelia Earhart accomplished something on her last flight.  If her plane was loaded with poor folks and orphans or some shit.  Ignominiously crash, take a bunch of poor bastards with you, and nobody will ever know or care about the details.

THIS.

In the end, nothing but fodder for gossip and tabloids: "They found her bones!" "The Japanese shot her down!" etc.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Her main flaw is that she campaigned badly.

But, yanno, we can just dismiss my point as "she has a vagina."

Her vagina never got a word in edgewise when she was saying all that racist stuff or cheering her hubby for the shit he pulled.

[Chelagoras The Boulder]

Its shit like this that makes me long for secession. This shit has been irreparably broken for decades now and All the systems put in place that could've possibly fixed it has also been smashed. I say let the West coast, New England, and Texas break off to do their own thing, and let Trump rule over the ashes. I say tear this clunker down for parts and start over.

I gotta ask, what makes you think your state would be smarter on its own?

My state has legal weed, gay marriage, and quite decent universal health care.  We also have the two richest men in the world and strong ties with the whole pacific rim.  We've got strong environmental laws and quite good public transport.  We held onto net neutrality when Trump got rid of it for the nation.  There's plenty wrong with local government, but nowhere near as much as there is wrong with national government.  I am fairly certain things would be better here without Texas and Florida and New York and California thinking they have any right to tell us how to run things.  Things would also be better here if folks would quit trying to tell Alaska and Arkansas and Vermont and Oklahoma what to do and focus on our own back yard.  I actually think things would even get better in the states that are explicitly stupider than the federal government, at least in the long run, because they'd have nobody else to blame for their problems.

Yea, basically this.

[Chelagoras The Boulder]

Also more generally speaking, I'm just fucking tired of having to wrestle with the Midwest and the Bible Belt for the privilege of living in the 21st century. Every small step forward we try to take is done with the ball and chain of the South's ignorant bullshit. They wanna live in some imagined mythical Good old Days, I say let them. I wanna live in the future, I want my goddamn jetpack.

This country has been in an abusive relationship with itself for too long and it's about time we got out. There is nothing holding us together as a people anymore and I'm tired of pretending there is.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Also more generally speaking, I'm just fucking tired of having to wrestle with the Midwest and the Bible Belt for the privilege of living in the 21st century. Every small step forward we try to take is done with the ball and chain of the South's ignorant bullshit. They wanna live in some imagined mythical Good old Days, I say let them. I wanna live in the future, I want my goddamn jetpack.

This country has been in an abusive relationship with itself for too long and it's about time we got out. There is nothing holding us together as a people anymore and I'm tired of pretending there is.

I'd happily go back in time for the privilege of women - or men if you want to switch it up - having the privilege of staying home with the kids instead of going to stupid jobs doing mindless repetitive bullshit, all the while being scared shitless re; the kids, stuff made to last like it hasn't been since the 1940's, and republicans that aren't totally murdering evil motherfuckers. Just get rid of the racist shit and it was a good era.

[Chelagoras The Boulder]

Also more generally speaking, I'm just fucking tired of having to wrestle with the Midwest and the Bible Belt for the privilege of living in the 21st century. Every small step forward we try to take is done with the ball and chain of the South's ignorant bullshit. They wanna live in some imagined mythical Good old Days, I say let them. I wanna live in the future, I want my goddamn jetpack.

This country has been in an abusive relationship with itself for too long and it's about time we got out. There is nothing holding us together as a people anymore and I'm tired of pretending there is.

I'd happily go back in time for the privilege of women - or men if you want to switch it up - having the privilege of staying home with the kids instead of going to stupid jobs doing mindless repetitive bullshit, all the while being scared shitless re; the kids, stuff made to last like it hasn't been since the 1940's, and republicans that aren't totally murdering evil motherfuckers. Just get rid of the racist shit and it was a good era.

which would be just fine except most of the people who long for that era these days tend to see the racism as a feature rather than a bug.

[Chelagoras The Boulder]

tho, to get back to Dok's original question, at this point, how could we possibly screw things up worse than they already are? I'd like the potential hypothetical problems of California self-governing than the assured catastrophic problems of Trump pulling us into WW3

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Also more generally speaking, I'm just fucking tired of having to wrestle with the Midwest and the Bible Belt for the privilege of living in the 21st century. Every small step forward we try to take is done with the ball and chain of the South's ignorant bullshit. They wanna live in some imagined mythical Good old Days, I say let them. I wanna live in the future, I want my goddamn jetpack.

This country has been in an abusive relationship with itself for too long and it's about time we got out. There is nothing holding us together as a people anymore and I'm tired of pretending there is.

I'd happily go back in time for the privilege of women - or men if you want to switch it up - having the privilege of staying home with the kids instead of going to stupid jobs doing mindless repetitive bullshit, all the while being scared shitless re; the kids, stuff made to last like it hasn't been since the 1940's, and republicans that aren't totally murdering evil motherfuckers. Just get rid of the racist shit and it was a good era.

which would be just fine except most of the people who long for that era these days tend to see the racism as a feature rather than a bug.

Yeah, but rationally, their opinions don't count, because A. willfully ignorant and B. psychologically disordered.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because some brainwashed po'buckers like it for all the wrong reasons. Nobody (sane) said we have to take the whole segregated, lynching package. Single income households and quality goods would be a VAST improvement.

Oh by the way, whatever the faults of that generation was, they DID hate nazis.

[Doktor Howl]

I suppose, when you are telling someone to fuck off, you should probably elaborate just a little.

A "flawed candidate" is a candidate that loses, especially when they should have stomped all over their opponent in 6 pound shit-kickers.  In Clinton's case, she failed to change gears.  In the primary, her best strategy is the one that she in fact used:  She let the machine handle Sanders.  This is well and good...A candidate who can't grab the levers of power has no business running for president.  If you have control of the machine in the primary, this is PRECISELY what you do.

But then she won the primary, and she ignored her candidate in the general election.  She campaigned badly because she didn't campaign.  She responded to questions about issues with slogans, she designated certain states as "firewall" states (Wisconsin, etc) that turned out to NOT be safe states, and she relied on the machine to deal with someone who was not responsive to the machine (That would be Trump).

You cannot beat a populist with slogans and platitutes.  "Stronger together" is not a fucking policy statement.  Her damage control was just fine, but that's not enough.  In short, she didn't win because she didn't run.

THAT BEING SAID, I am a little fucking sick and tired of being accused semi-annually of being a sexist, a libertarian, a racist, and/or a Nazi as the very first fucking option.

So yeah, fuck right off.

To a few others:

Just because she has a twat doesn't mean she's a good person.

She's not a bad person, she's just arrogant and can't hide it.

Permagos:

WTF, dude?  There you are, standing there with your fucking underwear on your head.  "She was already president."  No she fucking wasn't.  She was the Goddamn first lady, and if you think old Bill did nothing but snort blow and bang interns, then you should probably take a deep breath and pull your head out of your 4th point of contact, because that is the most fundamentally retarded fucking thing that has been said this week.  You know better than that, or at least you fucking should.

Really.  Just look at you fucking people.

Really.