I think it's time to write off the progressive demographic.

[MMIX]

Some would say that her main flaw was having a vagina.

From my pov that is essentially the whole problem, glad that it is not just my ridiculous feminist sensitivity leading me to irrational and hysterical conclusions..

From my point of view, you can kiss my ass until the scabs all fall off.

Fuck both of you. 

I'm out.

I still stick by what I said but I have just reread the thread right through and I feel obliged to offer a sincere apology to Roger for the way I barged in out of left field and stomped on his thread. With the benefit of hindsight [20:20 yadda yadda] I really should have taken my query - which is something I am sincerely interested in - to a new thread.
Apologies MMIX

Okay, consider it forgotten.  I'd just prefer to be asked what I meant by a phrase like that, is all.

Yeah, I get that, I think we all need that level of respect  and thanks

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

*starts a thread to snipe on leftists*

“Why does the left hate itself so much?”

I dunno man, maybe you could spend more time helping to organize and inspire people on your side rather than attacking leftists for attacking leftists who fail YOUR purity test.

Since when is describing, in detail, and advocating against a self-defeating movement within one's closest political equivalency the same thing as attacking one's own political equivalency?

Kinda takes me back to that leaked CIA (Or was it KGB?) document describing ways counter-intelligence operatives throw stones in an organization's efficiency by filling their meetings with useless nonsense and complaints to waste time and resources. In this analogy, you're the guy defending these useless complaints by attacking the people trained to spot this counter-intelligence technique.

"WAHHHHHHH, Aren't YOU just slowing down this organization by pointing out this pattern of disarray? WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

You may think you're advocating for progress with this childish crybaby fest, but you're really just holding it back. Exposing this pattern of disarray is important, and making sure the rest of the movement is aware by putting it into digestible writing is even more important.

I’m advocating actually doing things instead of just whining about it.

It’s critically important to point out these problems, but that’s really quite useless without organizing to overcome them.

I’ve observed Roger for quite some time and he seems more interested in widening rifts on the left than actually accomplishing common goals.

Also, it is not necessary for a saboteur to split the left when there are plenty of leftists like Roger who do an excellent job of it on their own.

WTF?
It was Roger who advised in 2016 to "hold your nose and vote for Clinton".
Which I did. And I hate that "must be brought to heel", Democrat-in-name-only cunt. I lived through eight years of Billary, during which time my kids were little and I was on welfare because that was the only way to stay home, and they killed that. So who's watching the kids? I won't go into that here. Suffice to say that the trauma and bullshit outlasted the Clinton administration.
But hey, y'know what? We're used to that kind of shit. As Roger said, "We lived through it. We might not live through this."
And I went forth, and took a couple of shots of gin, and held my nose and voted for Hillary.

That is NOT what I would call "splitting the left". Voting for a bitch you hate and would relish knocking her teeth into the back of her throat in order to present a united front against the fucking nazis is just the opposite.

Kudos to 2016 Roger, I guess. That isn’t some kind of general license to shit down progressive’s throats right now. That’s just more of the same petty, infighting garbage that got us a Republican controlled Congress.

As long as leftists only vote in presidential elections and spend the rest of the time shitting on grassroots efforts, we’re going to continue to enable literal fascists to further entrench themselves in power.

This thread is about alienating and demoralizing a big chunk of the Left while complaining about infighting. It’s the height of hypocrisy and small-minded spite.

[Doktor Howl]

*starts a thread to snipe on leftists*

“Why does the left hate itself so much?”

I dunno man, maybe you could spend more time helping to organize and inspire people on your side rather than attacking leftists for attacking leftists who fail YOUR purity test.

Since when is describing, in detail, and advocating against a self-defeating movement within one's closest political equivalency the same thing as attacking one's own political equivalency?

Kinda takes me back to that leaked CIA (Or was it KGB?) document describing ways counter-intelligence operatives throw stones in an organization's efficiency by filling their meetings with useless nonsense and complaints to waste time and resources. In this analogy, you're the guy defending these useless complaints by attacking the people trained to spot this counter-intelligence technique.

"WAHHHHHHH, Aren't YOU just slowing down this organization by pointing out this pattern of disarray? WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

You may think you're advocating for progress with this childish crybaby fest, but you're really just holding it back. Exposing this pattern of disarray is important, and making sure the rest of the movement is aware by putting it into digestible writing is even more important.

I’m advocating actually doing things instead of just whining about it.

It’s critically important to point out these problems, but that’s really quite useless without organizing to overcome them.

I’ve observed Roger for quite some time and he seems more interested in widening rifts on the left than actually accomplishing common goals.

Also, it is not necessary for a saboteur to split the left when there are plenty of leftists like Roger who do an excellent job of it on their own.

WTF?
It was Roger who advised in 2016 to "hold your nose and vote for Clinton".
Which I did. And I hate that "must be brought to heel", Democrat-in-name-only cunt. I lived through eight years of Billary, during which time my kids were little and I was on welfare because that was the only way to stay home, and they killed that. So who's watching the kids? I won't go into that here. Suffice to say that the trauma and bullshit outlasted the Clinton administration.
But hey, y'know what? We're used to that kind of shit. As Roger said, "We lived through it. We might not live through this."
And I went forth, and took a couple of shots of gin, and held my nose and voted for Hillary.

That is NOT what I would call "splitting the left". Voting for a bitch you hate and would relish knocking her teeth into the back of her throat in order to present a united front against the fucking nazis is just the opposite.

Kudos to 2016 Roger, I guess. That isn’t some kind of general license to shit down progressive’s throats right now. That’s just more of the same petty, infighting garbage that got us a Republican controlled Congress.

As long as leftists only vote in presidential elections and spend the rest of the time shitting on grassroots efforts, we’re going to continue to enable literal fascists to further entrench themselves in power.

This thread is about alienating and demoralizing a big chunk of the Left while complaining about infighting. It’s the height of hypocrisy and small-minded spite.

Well, yes.  My motives are bad.  What can I say?  I'm a criminal. 

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

It didn’t look to me like LMNO was criticizing you with that vagina comment, Dok.

And forgive me for being Canadian but I think both you and NET have decent points here. If we could forgo from the usual PD.com bloodletting, this could be a very informative and educational discussion. I read an article today about Doug Ford’s election which posited that people who don’t follow politics closely get spooked easily by the recent speed of change, and reach out to people like Ford and like Trump as a way of holding on to what they know.

And these are largely whities, obviously. And what they want to hold on to is their own dominance in the hierarchy, since that’s the only way they’ve ever known it.

I want to be clear: I think that is wrong.

But it was the first time it was explained to me in a way that made me understand where these people were coming from (obviously I have my own prejudices that I am working to overcome, which gives me a little insight into their view) and how Ford and Trump used these people.

The accusations Dok founded this thread on are not helping our cause much. They are founded accusations a lot of the time, but righteous indignation does not win battles by itself. Strategy does. Stepping away from the rhetoric to be a little objective about how we present ourselves could go a long long way.

I hope this is not interpreted as “stay in your place and be polite”, as that is certainly not my intention.

And if I am flat out wrong, I am willing to learn why.

I appreciate you.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

*starts a thread to snipe on leftists*

“Why does the left hate itself so much?”

I dunno man, maybe you could spend more time helping to organize and inspire people on your side rather than attacking leftists for attacking leftists who fail YOUR purity test.

Since when is describing, in detail, and advocating against a self-defeating movement within one's closest political equivalency the same thing as attacking one's own political equivalency?

Kinda takes me back to that leaked CIA (Or was it KGB?) document describing ways counter-intelligence operatives throw stones in an organization's efficiency by filling their meetings with useless nonsense and complaints to waste time and resources. In this analogy, you're the guy defending these useless complaints by attacking the people trained to spot this counter-intelligence technique.

"WAHHHHHHH, Aren't YOU just slowing down this organization by pointing out this pattern of disarray? WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

You may think you're advocating for progress with this childish crybaby fest, but you're really just holding it back. Exposing this pattern of disarray is important, and making sure the rest of the movement is aware by putting it into digestible writing is even more important.

I’m advocating actually doing things instead of just whining about it.

It’s critically important to point out these problems, but that’s really quite useless without organizing to overcome them.

I’ve observed Roger for quite some time and he seems more interested in widening rifts on the left than actually accomplishing common goals.

Also, it is not necessary for a saboteur to split the left when there are plenty of leftists like Roger who do an excellent job of it on their own.

WTF?
It was Roger who advised in 2016 to "hold your nose and vote for Clinton".
Which I did. And I hate that "must be brought to heel", Democrat-in-name-only cunt. I lived through eight years of Billary, during which time my kids were little and I was on welfare because that was the only way to stay home, and they killed that. So who's watching the kids? I won't go into that here. Suffice to say that the trauma and bullshit outlasted the Clinton administration.
But hey, y'know what? We're used to that kind of shit. As Roger said, "We lived through it. We might not live through this."
And I went forth, and took a couple of shots of gin, and held my nose and voted for Hillary.

That is NOT what I would call "splitting the left". Voting for a bitch you hate and would relish knocking her teeth into the back of her throat in order to present a united front against the fucking nazis is just the opposite.

Kudos to 2016 Roger, I guess. That isn’t some kind of general license to shit down progressive’s throats right now. That’s just more of the same petty, infighting garbage that got us a Republican controlled Congress.

As long as leftists only vote in presidential elections and spend the rest of the time shitting on grassroots efforts, we’re going to continue to enable literal fascists to further entrench themselves in power.

This thread is about alienating and demoralizing a big chunk of the Left while complaining about infighting. It’s the height of hypocrisy and small-minded spite.

Well, yes.  My motives are bad.  What can I say?  I'm a criminal. 

Calling for the death of all humans, but especially mine and progressives really clears up your MO....

Oh wait, you recommended I commit suicide. That’s different, considering suicide rates are going up and the damage you can do with comments like that can’t ever really be known. Maybe I am a piece of shit that the world would probably be better off without, and to be completely honest your little joke brought up a very painful part of my life and a struggle I’ll probably take to my grave.

Perhaps you helped push a demoralized progressive lurker to end their life, but who knows? I suppose it’s unlikely, and even if someone did off themselves, I can’t find a single reason to think you’d even bat an eye.

I still can’t tell, was Melania wearing your jacket at the child internment camps or not?

[Doktor Howl]

Calling for the death of all humans, but especially mine and progressives really clears up your MO....

Oh wait, you recommended I commit suicide. That’s different, considering suicide rates are going up and the damage you can do with comments like that can’t ever really be known. Maybe I am a piece of shit that the world would probably be better off without, and to be completely honest your little joke brought up a very painful part of my life and a struggle I’ll probably take to my grave.

Perhaps you helped push a demoralized progressive lurker to end their life, but who knows? I suppose it’s unlikely, and even if someone did off themselves, I can’t find a single reason to think you’d even bat an eye.

I still can’t tell, was Melania wearing your jacket at the child internment camps or not?

Well, this can all be explained:  I don't like you.  Not because you are a pompous windbag still trying to live the glory days of Occupy, and not because you have this weird fixation on anyone who writes anything anywhere, but because you are a primate, and I have really come to despise primates.

Let me clue you in:

1.  Big thieves hang little thieves.
2.  A "friend" is someone who does not yet have sufficient incentive to fuck you over.
3.  Kill one lousy primate and you go to prison forever.  Kill a million primates and ride to the opera in a limo.

Your basic problem is that you have connected your ego to saving people who are perfectly happy being doomed.  It doesn't matter what side of the aisle they're on, it doesn't matter if they're defending kiddie concentration camps or protesting The Man between bizarre open forum-style ego fests, they don't want to be saved.  YOU don't want to be saved.  And looking at the ice caps and the gulf stream, that's largely a self-correcting problem.

No fucking wonder you are or were suicidal.  Your programming is FUCKED.  You should demand a refund.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I thought that was your jacket.

[Doktor Howl]

I thought that was your jacket.

No, because I DO care.  Not caring would mean I don't care what happens to humans.  I care about that a great deal, only not in a positive sense.

I can explain this rationally, if you're interested.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I thought that was your jacket.

No, because I DO care.  Not caring would mean I don't care what happens to humans.  I care about that a great deal, only not in a positive sense.

I can explain this rationally, if you're interested.

I’m interested.

[Doktor Howl]

I thought that was your jacket.

No, because I DO care.  Not caring would mean I don't care what happens to humans.  I care about that a great deal, only not in a positive sense.

I can explain this rationally, if you're interested.

I’m interested.

Okay, a little backstory:

When I was a kid, I was misdiagnosed with ADHD, which was probably actually mild/moderate autism.  I'm not a neurologist, so I can't tell you if that's strictly accurate, but I DO know that as an adult, a neurologist did tell me that I was never ADHD.  Anyway, I didn't get along with too many people.  In short, I was a bit of a monster, and by my teens, I was only really interested in fucking, getting fucked up, and fucking people up.

Then I went off and joined the army, saw the world, and realized that I was not a very good monster, when stacked up against the market as a whole.  Then some other shit happened that I've talked about, then the whole 1991-1993 thing went down, and I realized that being a fairly small monster was good enough for my market share.

At some point, I left the military and got into some shady business involving a small airline and at about that time, I tripped across PD.  Somewhere in late 2002.  I was kind of gobsmacked, and I met some people that I thought were actually worth knowing.  Meanwhile, shady business continued.

For some strange fucking reason, at about that time I felt a need to have people like me.  I started trying - mostly unsuccessfully - to be a likeable person.  This sorry state of affairs went up and down over the next 13 years or so.  I identified with the left, the progressives, and the social justice crowd, because they were at least talking sense.  By this point, I had more or less buried my monster under a pile of more or less manufactured human, and settled down to a more respectable, corporate sort of shady business.

Then 2015 happened.  The entire thing, not just the Nigel business.  The social justice crowd settled in for a couple of years of virtue-signalling itself out of any meaningful existence, the liberals had had enough of the progressives, and the progressives really hated the liberals.  All this time, the right licked its lips and smiled.  As for me, I tried twice as hard to talk people around to some kind of common ground, and in the end I was labeled a racist, a Nazi of some kind, and a LIBERTARIAN.



It's really hard to overstate how much I hate all of you, really, with maybe a half-dozen exceptions (identifiable as "the ones I'm still speaking to in a pleasant tone of voice")...All but one of whom have one thing in common:  They aren't buying what you crusaders have to sell.  The one that does buy in is LMNO, and the only reason I don't throw him in the llama pit like the rest of you culture heroes is that he's legit.  He really believes, and isn't in this as a massive ego stroke.

Anyway, I'm looking around at all you've accomplished.  We have a giant used teabag as a president, there are concentration camps again, and Nazis are walking all over the place.  Poor & middle class folks have less purchasing power and no security, and the rich cunts have all but 10% of the bananas, and they'll have half of that 10% by October of this year.    Nothing any of you have done has worked, unless by "worked" you mean "Impressed the trustafarian girls at Coachella."  I don't know if it's because the ideas themselves are flawed, or because too many people are busy screeching how much THEY have accomplished, unlike those OTHER motherfuckers over THERE, but it all boils down to the same thing in the end:

You failed.

As for me, sometime around the beginning of 2016, I realized why I was so desperately unhappy.  It wasn't just the tidal wave of absolutely useless pricks screaming at me that my ideology was unsound, or even the stark realization that a "friend" is a friend until it's time for you to go under the bus...it's that I am not by nature a good person, and I have spent way too many years of my life trying to be something I'm not.  I have re-embraced my inner dirtbag, and I am happy for the first time in 16 years.

So here we are today.  You're telling me that you've DOING things and ACCOMPLISHING things, and I'm just not seeing it; more to the point, I don't care.  Things are going to get a whole lot worse than they are now, very quickly, and I hope you and everyone like you gets caught in the gears and ground into hamburger.

[Doktor Howl]

It's also worth mentioning that the only politician I don't hate is Maxine Waters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rep-waters-draws-criticism-for-saying-trump-officials-should-be-harassed-in-public/ar-AAz9x2V?ocid=spartanntp

It's funny watching Pelosi and Booker and Van Hollen try to throw her under the bus for being mean to Nazis.  Good luck with that, asshats, Maxine Waters isn't here to take any of your shit.

[Doktor Howl]

For the last few presidents, we have been electing more and more the candidate that will piss of the other side.

Which presidents did you have in mind?

[Doktor Howl]

Posting here for relevance.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/where-is-barack-obama/ar-AAz7gfD?ocid=spartanntp

[Doktor Howl]

It's also worth mentioning that the only politician I don't hate is Maxine Waters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rep-waters-draws-criticism-for-saying-trump-officials-should-be-harassed-in-public/ar-AAz9x2V?ocid=spartanntp

It's funny watching Pelosi and Booker and Van Hollen try to throw her under the bus for being mean to Nazis.  Good luck with that, asshats, Maxine Waters isn't here to take any of your shit.

Update:  Watching Sarah Huckabee Sanders try to chide Maxine Waters is like watching an earthworm try to bully a robin.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sarah-sanders-decries-calls-for-harassment-citing-maxine-waters-restaurant-episode/ar-AAz9Itj?ocid=spartandhp

[Doktor Howl]

From the link:

"In the crucial months ahead, we must strive to make America beautiful again, Pelosi, D-Calif., wrote on Twitter. "Trump's daily lack of civility has provoked responses that are predictable but unacceptable. As we go forward, we must conduct elections in a way that achieves unity from sea to shining sea."
Waters' remarks also were rebuked by Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer, who said Monday afternoon that "no one should call for the harassment of political opponents, that's not right, that's not American."

No, Shumer, that's American as FUCK.

Okay, so now I'm back to hating the dems just as much as the progressives.