News:

"We don't make the apocalypse, we make the apocalypse better."

Main Menu

Expanding Universe? Redshift Redemption

Started by OS Not Found, November 10, 2018, 03:03:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Doktor Howl

Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on November 12, 2018, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2018, 01:07:04 PM
If I can have your permission, may I submit your working hypothesis to Chang Kee Jung, who was part of the Super-Kamiokande coalition which won the Nobel prize in Physics back in 2015?  He might know a thing or two about gravity, time, and light.

:aaa:

I can see a number of places this might be headed, and I like all of them.

Same.  I love a good train wreck.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

It's also worth mentioning that I was on Kitt Peak with Dr Probst when the announcement came down that the Alcubierre Drive couldn't work because, mathematically, gravity has to be common to all universes.

Which makes this even more complicated.  You may have to deal with gravitational forces from objects which, strictly speaking, don't exist.
Molon Lube

OS Not Found

Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2018, 01:07:04 PM
So, my personal opinion is that something seems off in both your initial assumptions as well as something seeming off around steps 3 and 4. 

However, I am not a physicist.  Double however, I know some physicists.  If I can have your permission, may I submit your working hypothesis to Chang Kee Jung, who was part of the Super-Kamiokande coalition which won the Nobel prize in Physics back in 2015?  He might know a thing or two about gravity, time, and light.

Let me know.

I'm currently making a powerpoint (which I'm going to convert into a picture book called "One Shift, Two Shift, Redshift, Blueshift") to get feedback from some of the physics/metaphysics people that I know from university connections. I found Chang Kee Jung's email with a search as well as pictures of him jumping off a bridge on the same page, so I can submit it to him as well once I've got the information as concise as I'd like it to reduce the odds on it getting skimmed, scanned, and trash-canned.

Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 12, 2018, 04:19:58 PM
It's also worth mentioning that I was on Kitt Peak with Dr Probst when the announcement came down that the Alcubierre Drive couldn't work because, mathematically, gravity has to be common to all universes.

Which makes this even more complicated.  You may have to deal with gravitational forces from objects which, strictly speaking, don't exist.

Part of the incentive for this model is to reduce reliance on phenomenal phenomena. Without the big bang, there's reduced incentive for belief in massive quantum inflation and the multiverse that would have resulted. With a cosmological arrow for an increased trend in gravity, there's reduced incentive for the negative mass, which the Alciuberre Drive depends on utilizing.

Not too dependant on this model, but related to the Alciuberre Drive: Wormhole theory tends to be around black holes, but if we find the supermassive black holes at the center of galaxies, it seems simpler to imagine black holes as being the center of the gravitational force between the objects in the galaxy rather than as being its own physical object, considering there has never been a visual observation of black holes themselves just surrounding effects, near all images of black holes being illustrations or taken from computer simulations/the ones of actual black holes only showing its effect on surrounding space stuff. If gravity is increased and concentrating to a center point within galaxies, I don't think there's any room for the wormhole bijection sign flipping in the case where a black hole is just a massive gravity well formed as a result of surrounding objects' center of gravity. Observational evidence for black holes being centers of gravity and not physical objects, aside from them lacking physical characteristics, may be found in the observation that supermassive black holes are located at the center of almost every massive galaxy as well in explaining the M-σ relation without dependency on an inobservable feedback mechanism.

Will update with peer feedback as it goes, while the emails ping and pong I'll be focusing in on One Shift, Two Shift, Redshift, Blueshift for a solid.

Related, to the elongated U suggesting an increased redshift always at the side of the observing end, a blueshift should occur from the observers in an expanding/decreasing density model similar to if the escalators were decreasing in speed while running up/down them.
Natural law demands spaghetti to be eaten raw.

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: OS Not Found on November 13, 2018, 12:00:15 AM
I'm currently making a powerpoint (which I'm going to convert into a picture book called "One Shift, Two Shift, Redshift, Blueshift")

:lulz:  I love it.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Con-troll

We should hold a Jake Day for particle physicists to slightly set back their summoning rituals at CERN.
I get trauma from stuff most don't even notice.

Q. G. Pennyworth

Buddy, I have some news for you about black holes that you're not gonna like.

altered

Quote from: OS Not Found on November 13, 2018, 12:00:15 AMconsidering there has never been a visual observation of black holes themselves just surrounding effects, near all images of black holes being illustrations or taken from computer simulations/the ones of actual black holes only showing its effect on surrounding space stuff.

This sure aged really poorly. I wonder if ever the OP will return to admit defeat.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/mach/amp/ncna992111
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: nullified on April 11, 2019, 05:26:48 AM
Quote from: OS Not Found on November 13, 2018, 12:00:15 AMconsidering there has never been a visual observation of black holes themselves just surrounding effects, near all images of black holes being illustrations or taken from computer simulations/the ones of actual black holes only showing its effect on surrounding space stuff.

This sure aged really poorly. I wonder if ever the OP will return to admit defeat.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/mach/amp/ncna992111

Yeah, AND we have a new math legend.
Molon Lube

altered

"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: nullified on April 11, 2019, 05:34:41 AM
I haven't heard about that. Do tell.

Doctor Katie Bouman.  She built the model, then developed an algorithm to handle the 5 petabytes of data that led to more or less making a photograph of an actual object out of radiowaves.  But the photograph isn't a model itself, it's actually a photograph.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Think of it as being to television what television was to radio.
Molon Lube

altered

Fuckin cool as hell, you mean?

No but really serious, that's awesome. I wish literally any of the news articles I saw mentioned the details.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: nullified on April 11, 2019, 05:39:26 AM
Fuckin cool as hell, you mean?

No but really serious, that's awesome. I wish literally any of the news articles I saw mentioned the details.

They keep referring to some dude.  Dr Bouman made the model, wrote the algorithm, and led the team.  But they keep interviewing some dude.

Surprise.
Molon Lube

altered

It's totally unsurprising but ... still really fucking irritating. Like getting splinters while doing woodwork.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

OS Not Found

Saw the news while at the barber. Haven't finished my initial hypothesis yet, and I haven't found all their information that I'm hoping they'd publish. Also, there will be more information after a few years of watching the hue/brightness/circumference/isco/thickness/and the perpendicular diametric flare's hue/width/brightness/spread at further points.

My central point on black holes has been the lack of evidence for 'point of no return's or singularities. This image, being made by rendering the surrounding gas, same as prior fictional renditions have been, still doesn't warrant inferring an infinitesimal. My current prediction for isco's, innermost stable circular orbit, is an 'insufficient negentropy' reaction. The closer gas is spun to the center point, assuming the center point of the black hole is its center of mass, more negentropic force is required to maintain parallel orbit. If insufficient negentropic force were provided to keep that debris in line, it would be shot out, to be either pulled back into the disc or in for a brisk escape.

As for the redness, the consistent explanation I've read/listened to so far attribute it to being pulled inward. I do think the contents of its disc are being pulled inward, up until reaching isco, but the primary motion is the spiral. At each point of an object in a spiral, an outward orthogonal redshift will occur as a result of its centripetal motion, regardless of if the spiral is condensing or expanding. Adding a condensing/expanding doppler would add another hue shift, but due to the density of the disc, condensation is likely not the predominant doppler. This is useful to note as with more images over time we will learn more about speed and the direction of their respective galaxies, the spin will be either increasing or decreasing at a different rate near the isco as it is on the circumference, possibly along some orbits between the two, but that is unlikely as a rate of increase greatest in the center would signal the complete absence of the original force.

Biggest thing to keep an eye on will be how those perpendicular diametric beams. I am predicting the beam, which should be a vortex, forming emissions occur at a speed/frequency to be blueshifted into the gammas, the study that resulted in this image should be repeated using satellite telescopes next so we can get a picture without our atmosphere's gamma filtration, but without being able to see the gammas now, we should be able to see the beam increase in diameter and redden as it further reveals itself. As what we see of the beam so far looks to be its early stages, I think its likely the orthogonal emissions of the gamma vortex initially hitting the pan, adding to its brightness, but as the diameter of the gamma vortex increases with distance, the orthogonal emissions focused towards and will eventually be shot directly through the hole, then return to hitting the pan until it shoots past the pan. First observing the hue-shift of those flairs overtime or repeating the survey with gamma satellites to look for supporting/dissenting evidence needs to be done, but if confirming, the currently apparent red beams can be used to determine the corresponding diameters of the gamma vortexes, point of orthogonal perpendicularity (when the tail becomes perpendicular before spinning out, its possible this doesn't happen until hitting the pan or until outside collision entirely/knowing the point of orthogonal perpendicularity will be necessary for a predicting a complete negation of the doppler vortex), as well as give hints to age/life expectancy. I didn't consider gamma vortexes before this picture and have more to learn about refractions, so I'm not yet prepared to do too much of any predictions on how the orthogonal (presumably red, as a light with varied angle of entry should have a doppler refraction) waves will react upon reaching corresponding positions with their respective enveloping gamma vortexes, but that is my first day's impressions.
Natural law demands spaghetti to be eaten raw.