UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD

[LMNO]

You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square

This is quite literally the primary process.

In this case, yeah. Though I would argue that there's a significant difference between 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 4.

In this case, it just sped up.

It was 100% clear that the first Centrist to get a lot of delegates would be the one to go up against Sanders.  That was Biden.  All the other centrists saw they didn't have a path to the majority, and threw in with Biden.

Whether it was now, or if it was a few weeks from now, it was always going to be Centrist vs Progressive.  If Bernie had tanked in Nevada and Warren was able to get more delegates, the pile on would be against her.

I'm still not seeing what's not fair about this.

[Doktor Howl]

This, but instead of a sword, the DNC is waving around a floppy wet noodle. Sloppy Joe is going to get torn to pieces in a debate against Drumpf the very second he starts his stumbling gibberish. Drumpf is going to openly mock him, and Drumpfs base will just go rabid.

Actually, the only good thing about Biden is that he isn't intimidated by anyone, least of all Trump.  There's a reason he was Obama's attack dog for 8 years.

Biden's problem is that his mouth just sort of wanders away without him. 

[Doktor Howl]

You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square

This is quite literally the primary process.

In this case, yeah. Though I would argue that there's a significant difference between 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 4.

In this case, it just sped up.

It was 100% clear that the first Centrist to get a lot of delegates would be the one to go up against Sanders.  That was Biden.  All the other centrists saw they didn't have a path to the majority, and threw in with Biden.

Whether it was now, or if it was a few weeks from now, it was always going to be Centrist vs Progressive.  If Bernie had tanked in Nevada and Warren was able to get more delegates, the pile on would be against her.

I'm still not seeing what's not fair about this.

There is no "fair" in politics.  Just as the dems can't seem to understand that the GOP changed the rules ages ago, the left never seems to process that politics is by definition unfair.

[Doktor Howl]

Here's the thing about that.... I don't give a shit. Not one shit! Not even a tiny little M&M sized pip. There are children in cages, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is holding onto life by a fingernail, there are climate change deniers and white supremicists writing gov policy.... I am not getting hung up on trivial shit like being choosy over donors.

BOOM

[Doktor Howl]

Here's the thing about that.... I don't give a shit. Not one shit! Not even a tiny little M&M sized pip. There are children in cages, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is holding onto life by a fingernail, there are climate change deniers and white supremicists writing gov policy.... I am not getting hung up on trivial shit like being choosy over donors. The real question is, is Liz Warren in anybody's pocket? And I honestly don't think she's suddenly gonna go all libertarian because a few corporations want to throw in with her and she said "fine, I'll take your not-coordinated-with-my-campaign money".

Y'know, you're right. No rebuttal, no buts.

The question is at this point, what can we do about this? Sure, voting and participating in the democratic process is something, but I can't help but think that there is more we can do on a kind of clandestine, underground level. I don't feel like we have the time to let bureaucracy run its course to even things out. I say this with no solid ideas, but it is something that is constantly churning  in the back of my mind.

I am sure that there would be something that could be done.

But I am focused on getting Trump out of office.  I don't actually give a damn who it is (my favorite has been out of the race for months), just so long as he goes.

[Dimocritus]

You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square

This is quite literally the primary process.

In this case, yeah. Though I would argue that there's a significant difference between 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 4.

In this case, it just sped up.

It was 100% clear that the first Centrist to get a lot of delegates would be the one to go up against Sanders.  That was Biden.  All the other centrists saw they didn't have a path to the majority, and threw in with Biden.

Whether it was now, or if it was a few weeks from now, it was always going to be Centrist vs Progressive.  If Bernie had tanked in Nevada and Warren was able to get more delegates, the pile on would be against her.

I'm still not seeing what's not fair about this.

It's not really about fairness. It's about perception, which I know is a kind of an ambiguous weird abstraction, but it's what people are basing decisions on. I don't think (m)any of the candidates thought too critically about how a lot of this was going to be perceived.

Side note: LMNO, I don't want to battle with you. It's clear we have some differing opinions, but I also believe that we have far more in common, and I'd rather spend our time identifying and discussing those areas and and how to make those kinds of changes than spinning our wheels.

[Dimocritus]

This, but instead of a sword, the DNC is waving around a floppy wet noodle. Sloppy Joe is going to get torn to pieces in a debate against Drumpf the very second he starts his stumbling gibberish. Drumpf is going to openly mock him, and Drumpfs base will just go rabid.

Biden's problem is that his mouth just sort of wanders away without him.

Agreed, but that's the perfect target for Drumpfs low-blow, insult tactics.

[Dimocritus]

Here's the thing about that.... I don't give a shit. Not one shit! Not even a tiny little M&M sized pip. There are children in cages, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is holding onto life by a fingernail, there are climate change deniers and white supremicists writing gov policy.... I am not getting hung up on trivial shit like being choosy over donors. The real question is, is Liz Warren in anybody's pocket? And I honestly don't think she's suddenly gonna go all libertarian because a few corporations want to throw in with her and she said "fine, I'll take your not-coordinated-with-my-campaign money".

Y'know, you're right. No rebuttal, no buts.

The question is at this point, what can we do about this? Sure, voting and participating in the democratic process is something, but I can't help but think that there is more we can do on a kind of clandestine, underground level. I don't feel like we have the time to let bureaucracy run its course to even things out. I say this with no solid ideas, but it is something that is constantly churning  in the back of my mind.

I am sure that there would be something that could be done.

This is what I'm here to talk about.

[Doktor Howl]

And this is the critical problem with Sanders' campaign.

"What this campaign I think is increasingly about is, Which side are you on?" Sanders said. "There has never been a campaign in recent history which has taken on the entire political establishment. That is an establishment that is working frantically to try to defeat us."

https://apnews.com/7e64410893844bcaf438e11b194c35ce

He is framing himself as the opponent of the democratic party (among others, obviously).  The reason he did so well up until now is that he was seen as being an opponent of those other motherfuckers (read: the Trump regime).  But he just took his eye off the ball, or at least gave the impression that he took his eye off the ball.

Now his opponents will use his own words to frame him as attacking the dems as a priority.  This is, in fact, the moment I am sure Biden's people were just waiting for.

[Doktor Howl]

This, but instead of a sword, the DNC is waving around a floppy wet noodle. Sloppy Joe is going to get torn to pieces in a debate against Drumpf the very second he starts his stumbling gibberish. Drumpf is going to openly mock him, and Drumpfs base will just go rabid.

Biden's problem is that his mouth just sort of wanders away without him.

Agreed, but that's the perfect target for Drumpfs low-blow, insult tactics.

Thing is, Biden has always handled that with a smug grin and a definite implied promise of future tragic misunderstandings.  He has never actually paid attention to what people say about him, beyond having a staffer mark that person down on the revenge list.

Biden is like a hot rod car that has no wheels.  He's powerful as hell, but never seems to actually get anywhere.

[Doktor Howl]

This is what I'm here to talk about.

Thing is, you can do some things, even great things, and it won't matter.  The republic failed, and even Sanders' policies would only be a band aid on a bullet wound.

To put it another way, Trump isn't the problem.  He's just a symptom. 63,000,000 Americans  who thought he was a good idea are the problem.

So now you have the voters saying "the contest isn't left vs right, it's establishment against anti-establishment."  People now view "political outsiders" as "Trump," even though Sanders is literally as far away from Trump as you are ever likely to get.

I don't like this any more than you do, but that's the way it is. 

[chaotic neutral observer]

The question is at this point, what can we do about this? Sure, voting and participating in the democratic process is something, but I can't help but think that there is more we can do on a kind of clandestine, underground level. I don't feel like we have the time to let bureaucracy run its course to even things out. I say this with no solid ideas, but it is something that is constantly churning  in the back of my mind.

Figure out who the current successor to Cambridge Analytica is, and hire them.

It won't be cheap, and redirecting the culture of an entire country is going to take a long time, if it's possible at all.

[Cain]

Cambridge Analytica aren't going to work for a movement that threatens their own profit margins.

[Suu]

Everything Cramulus said.

1: We don't have time to play fair, lives and SCOTUS seats are literally at stake, here.
2: We don't have time to overhaul the "establishment". That can be done once someone less of a shitburger is in office. You're talking years of grassroots work, something that the now-now-now generation of Amazon Prime doesn't understand, or want.
3: Holy fuck, this is one amazing distraction to get us all disenfranchised about flipping the Senate.

The problem is BernieBros and such is exactly this. They want immediate change, knowing damn well it isn't going to happen, and then act all woke and sanctimonious when it doesn't fucking happen, blaming everything but themselves or other, more reasoned factors for failure.

The DNC did not launch all of these candidates against Sanders. Pretty sure that a lot of them were talking about runs 2 goddamn years ago, including Biden and Bloomberg for that matter. That's plenty of time to prepare. Maybe once, just fucking once, you'd think they could think critically and not defer everything to a conspiracy theory as an excuse of not getting what they want like a spoiled toddler? We already have one of those in charge.

Also, Bernie is not, currently failing. Most of the states haven't even primaried yet, and this level of whining over heavily corrupted and disenfranchised southern states picking Biden shows a cognitive dissonance beyond words.

[Cramulus]

As for meaningful political participation -- I still believe what was said over at Chaos Marxism ---

as an individual, we are too small to meaningfully affect the Big Picture (unless you're the individual leading a crowd)

So the best we can do is find a GROUP that we think could and should change the world, and help push


To that end, I think it's also useful 'political activism' to help steer (in the small way we can) the party away from eating itself. In the next few weeks, we're going to need the alchemy of coalition and learning to be in the tent together. Like, I am already seeing people online say "I will never vote for Biden, full stop". I don't think this is really the moment to work on those people, but I do think it's helpful to point out that RBG isn't gonna make it another 4 years. We either come together (for a change) or we get used to having cheeto-stained hands.