UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD

[LMNO]

Bingo.  I heard someone quip, "The general election campaign will be taking place in the Senate Intelligence Committee."

[Cain]

I'm kinda divided on that point. If the Democrats are so opposed to having Sanders run in the primaries, why let him do so in the first place?

Saves a lot of headaches if you want to exclude someone to just go ahead and actually do it, rather than pretending to accept their presence while undermining them at every turn. It should be expected, but at the same time, if that person is building a constituency among party members (as evidenced by...winning primaries) then you're only causing trouble for yourself by telling a plurality of your own voters "fuck you, we decide what matters".

[altered]

I'm kinda divided on that point. If the Democrats are so opposed to having Sanders run in the primaries, why let him do so in the first place?

Saves a lot of headaches if you want to exclude someone to just go ahead and actually do it, rather than pretending to accept their presence while undermining them at every turn. It should be expected, but at the same time, if that person is building a constituency among party members (as evidenced by...winning primaries) then you're only causing trouble for yourself by telling a plurality of your own voters "fuck you, we decide what matters".

This.

Everyone loves the underdog. And the party has made it clear that even if all the 2016 Berner conspiracy theories were just that, it was only because they lacked the necessary vision to make them come true before.

I have seen so many people jump over to supporting Bernie, self included, on account of "they're outright transparently cheating the dude." Which is weird. They should have seen that coming.

[LMNO]

I'm trying to work this out in my head.

If the Sanders camp thinks that Bernie is electable as a progressive because the Democratic party has the progressive votes to win (and as much as I hate to admit it, Warren isn't splitting the progressive vote very much);

Then the centrists falling behind Biden shouldn't be that much of a problem, because Bernie is convinced the majority of Democrats back him.

I don't understand this sense of unfairness when the race comes down to progressive vs centrist, and there are more centrist votes.



I'm not a political expert, but wouldn't it be great if there were a candidate that appealed to both the progressive ideals, and the centrist approach of structured wonkiness with a pinch of incrementalism?

[Suu]

I'm trying to work this out in my head.

If the Sanders camp thinks that Bernie is electable as a progressive because the Democratic party has the progressive votes to win (and as much as I hate to admit it, Warren isn't splitting the progressive vote very much);

Then the centrists falling behind Biden shouldn't be that much of a problem, because Bernie is convinced the majority of Democrats back him.

I don't understand this sense of unfairness when the race comes down to progressive vs centrist, and there are more centrist votes.



I'm not a political expert, but wouldn't it be great if there were a candidate that appealed to both the progressive ideals, and the centrist approach of structured wonkiness with a pinch of incrementalism?

There is, but, "She's not electable." 

[altered]

I don't really know whether Bernie has the ability to win the primary or not. I am fairly sure he'd do better in the general than he would in the primary, but again — winning, I don't know.

Biden isn't a threat to him, and even if he was that would be fine by me, in a practical sense. My point is more that if you see someone get cheated out of plain-as-day wins, you tend to feel sympathetic. Things like the Iowa math bullshit, culminating in them acknowledging the math was wrong  and saying they wouldn't fix it anyway.

If the wins were coming to other people fairly, fine. If they just said "we don't like you, go find a different party to play in," okay. Dick move, but I see where it comes together, and I can respect doing it openly.

But instead they fudge the numbers, badly, and when caught they say "yeah but we won't fix it so fuck you"?

That feels like the con coming out — we need your voting bloc but we can't have you leading it with all that socialism and shit. That makes us look bad. Say your dumb things to your dumb people to keep them happy Democrats. Smile, nod, die a quiet and ignoble death out of sight, so you don't startle the dipshits and get them acting up. Don't run for federal office unless you plan to lose. Whatever you do, don't dare start winning — that's how you put these crazy ideas like Scandinavian economic systems in peoples heads, and we can't have that.


EDIT: Half asleep. Biden WASN'T a threat to him. By now he is, though I can't say by how much.

Also, I do want to point out: I'm far less upset by Klobuchar and Buttchug giving their delegates to Biden than I was about the shit in Iowa. That's a valid strategic approach. Now, it does continue a pattern, but a pattern of open fuckery without actively doing math wrong and so forth is acceptable to me. It's almost honorable in a way, given they started out with their asses in it.

[Cramulus]

one thing democrats can't get enough of is losing strategic battles in order to retain the moral highground




please give us ranked choice voting--it would end so much left wing in-fighting

[Suu]

one thing democrats can't get enough of is losing strategic battles in order to retain the moral highground




please give us ranked choice voting--it would end so much left wing in-fighting

See? If I do decide to go ahead and run for office after Jephph retires, I'm going to throw that "moral highground" shit out of the window.

These are my views, if you don't like them, I don't give a fuck.

[altered]

one thing democrats can't get enough of is losing strategic battles in order to retain the moral highground




please give us ranked choice voting--it would end so much left wing in-fighting

See? If I do decide to go ahead and run for office after Jephph retires, I'm going to throw that "moral highground" shit out of the window.

These are my views, if you don't like them, I don't give a fuck.

If I live wherever you are when you run, you'll have my vote.

Wait.

You MIGHT have my vote, but that depends on music tastes and food.

[altered]

  WELL THEN!!!

https://muslimmatters.org/2020/02/27/meet-joe-bidens-muslim-outreach-coordinator-a-supporter-of-narendra-modi-and-his-islamophobic-hindu-nationalist-agenda/

[Doktor Howl]

I'm trying to work this out in my head.

If the Sanders camp thinks that Bernie is electable as a progressive because the Democratic party has the progressive votes to win (and as much as I hate to admit it, Warren isn't splitting the progressive vote very much);

Then the centrists falling behind Biden shouldn't be that much of a problem, because Bernie is convinced the majority of Democrats back him.

I don't understand this sense of unfairness when the race comes down to progressive vs centrist, and there are more centrist votes.



I'm not a political expert, but wouldn't it be great if there were a candidate that appealed to both the progressive ideals, and the centrist approach of structured wonkiness with a pinch of incrementalism?

Not possible, because both factions WANT to fight, because eating your own is easier and safer than going after the GOP.

I shit on everyone involved...Centrist, leftist, Trump voters, everyone is a fucking moron and a failed primate.  Fuck you all.

[Doktor Howl]

WELL THEN!!!

https://muslimmatters.org/2020/02/27/meet-joe-bidens-muslim-outreach-coordinator-a-supporter-of-narendra-modi-and-his-islamophobic-hindu-nationalist-agenda/

This must be to get the all-important Gabbard vote.   

[Doktor Howl]

AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING:  Just because YOUR vote counts doesn't mean everyone else's don't count.  When your favorite candidate loses a primary, it is most often because that person wasn't the favorite candidate of the majority of voters.

I feel that I should not have to explain this.

[Doktor Howl]

I see you driving 'round town
With the republicans and I'm like,
Fuck you!
I guess wanting change in my party
Was a little too much I'm like,
Fuck you!
And fuck Biden too!
Said, if I was richer, I'd still be with ya
Ha, now ain't that some shit? (ain't that some shit?)
And although there's pain in my chest
I still wish you the best with a
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo

Yeah I'm sorry, I can't afford a Ferrari,
But that don't mean I can't vote this year.
I guess Trump's an Xbox and Bernie's more Atari,
And the way they play that game ain't fair.
I pity the fool that goes and votes for you
(Oh shit they're fascists)
Well
(Just thought you should know my dude)
Ooooooh
I've got some news for you
Yeah go run and tell the FBI

I see you driving 'round town
With the republicans and I'm like,
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo
I guess wanting change in my party
Was a little too much I'm like,
Fuck you!
And fuck Bernie too!
Said, if I was richer, I'd still be with ya
Ha, now ain't that some shit? (ain't that some shit?)
And although there's pain in my chest
I still wish you the best with a
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo

[Juana]

We'd have to surrender queer culture to assimilate. I'd prefer the salad bowl, side by side, approach to equality. We get to be visibly queer if we want and still full members of society.

I think we are operating under different definitions, here.

Appears so.

Most likely.  I believe in this situation, by 'assimilate' Juana means, "the only acceptable way to present oneself in this society is to adopt the habits, speech patterns, clothing, and social ideology of straight, white, middle-class men and women."

So in order to be considered part of society, the Big Gay Cowboys, the non-binary, the Trans, the leather daddies, the bears, the drag queens, the drag kings, the disco twinks, the butch femmes, etc. all need to start dressing and acting like a banker or Martha Stewart.

I see.  I can see why that would make people's hackles go up.  This in fact would bring on the rage from me.

When I think "assimilation," it's the other way around.  The subgroup's behavior and modes of expression just become normalized within the larger group.

That's not historically how it's worked out, which is why the word, yeah, puts my hackles up.

That's something I can 100% get behind.

The language here isn't very clear.  What terms should we use if the PERSON has to change, and what terms if SOCIETY has to change?

"Assimilation" has historically meant surrendering what made you different in ways that pose a threat (eg, in the US, giving up aspects of an immigrants' culture that made them different from the Protestant Anglo borg). That's not always a total surrender but there's always a lot of onboarding of Anglo Protestant values in particular imo.

Wrt the term for the reverse, it's acculturation as far as I can tell. There's some assimilation bc that's inevitable but the dominant culture makes room for the minority culture.

Is bloomberg out as well, the only thing that scares me more than another four years of trump is four years of a meaner, smarter, richer, competent and more morally corrupt version of him

Nope, not yet.

I don't think he's gonna get anything in the event of a brokered convention. From what I've heard, his campaign folks are p much only hearing why everybody hates him and I think the DNC knows that. All her really seems to be doing is making Biden look like a better option than he is, to me anyway. That said, keeping a weather eye on Bloomberg is probably wise.