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Testamonial:  And i have actually gone to a bar and had a bouncer try to start a fight with me on the way in. I broke his teeth out of his fucking mouth and put his face through a passenger side window of a car.

Guess thats what the Internet was build for, pussy motherfuckers taking shit in safety...

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UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD

Started by Doktor Howl, March 01, 2019, 08:53:02 PM

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The problem that I have with that idea is that the only positive about Biden is he's better than Trump.

He's a moral void and senile.

He has lied about his progressive bonafides, which don't exist.

There's no good thing about him. It's just that his horrid nature is less horrid than Trump's.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

Faust

There's nothing I like about it either but the choices remain the same

  • Uprising and change the system - The logical and sane choice, therefore wont happen
  • Not just vote for Biden but promote Biden because as a lame duck he's not going to do it on his own, especially not when the only thing anyone hears about is the allegations
  • Resign to have already lost, remain morally intact, through another four years of Trump.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

tyrannosaurus vex

Quote from: Faust on May 07, 2020, 11:34:04 PM
OK I've been thinking about this, ever since Dimo's thread.
And its something I feel is morally grey and horrible, and if anyone dislikes it, they need to understand I feel the same way:

I don't think the grudging "I guess I have no choice but to vote biden" is going to work

When the perceived choice is:
The lefts old boring and perceived  lame duck
The rights golden boy and or Troll Entertainment Factory

Biden has a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

He is going to lose the election because his supporters have to do it in spite of dull, tired persona, the weird out of touch comments and of course, the rape allegations.
Those same allegations when levelled at Mr "Grab them by the pussy", inexplicably increase trumps support, not reduce it.

If Biden is going to win, if there is any chance at all, everyone who wants trump out is going to have to focus on whatever few positives he has going. I say this because the only active discussions I am seeing of him at the moment from either side, is on the sexual assault stuff.

It means putting that discussion aside (at least in wider quarters than here), it can wait until day one of his presidency, but it will have to wait or he will lose.

I understand if moral integrity don't allow for that. The preferable option would be to break the system that makes shit float to the top, but apathy and being literally unable to congregate makes that a pipe dream.

Or maybe that is exactly how the con wins: forced to silence complaints about the lesser of two evils.

The fact is that no matter what kind of clown faces we paint on, everyone is well aware that Joe Biden is the "at least he isn't Trump" candidate. If that isn't enough to carry him over the line, then it isn't going to matter how happy everybody pretends to be about him. He's already fighting the dynamic where Democrats do well when they feel like they're voting for something (as opposed to against something).

And while people who ought to be supporting Biden might damage his chances by shit talking him instead, I will always be amazed that it's the rank and file citizens who get the shit end of everybody's "goddammit be better" hate, and not the party bosses who put an asshole like Biden on the ballot in the first place. Why is it my responsibility to shut up and smile and do my duty, but it's never the Pelosi Wing's job to stop cramming horseshit down our throats?
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

tyrannosaurus vex

Quote from: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:01:46 AM
There's nothing I like about it either but the choices remain the same

  • Uprising and change the system - The logical and sane choice, therefore wont happen
  • Not just vote for Biden but promote Biden because as a lame duck he's not going to do it on his own, especially not when the only thing anyone hears about is the allegations
  • Resign to have already lost, remain morally intact, through another four years of Trump.

There is a fourth option nobody seems to even consider: organize and do the things you wish the government would do instead of waiting for Biden or whoever to climb down off their shitty poll numbers and lend a hand. The government is, after all, just a big fat organization of human beings. There's no natural law that says we're only allowed to have one.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Faust

Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on May 08, 2020, 12:16:28 AM

And while people who ought to be supporting Biden might damage his chances by shit talking him instead, I will always be amazed that it's the rank and file citizens who get the shit end of everybody's "goddammit be better" hate, and not the party bosses who put an asshole like Biden on the ballot in the first place. Why is it my responsibility to shut up and smile and do my duty, but it's never the Pelosi Wing's job to stop cramming horseshit down our throats?

Because unfortunately it is the part that is directly in your control.

Pelosi and the party wont be held accountable as long as the US has a two party system. If there is a chance of changing or breaking that, that would be the preferred option.

And yes it is a thin paint job, but the only chance Biden has of winning is with that Weekend At Bernies strategy, because the current trajectory is taking him away and not closer. There are borderline people who will see the negativity and vote trump out of the devil you know, or the fact that there is some sick double standard:
I don't know if is a psychological effect or what, but the sexual assault allegations on biden are reprehensible and stick in the mind, while trumps followers either revel in it, and his detractors dont keep the focus on it, because it seems to be expected of him, he gets away with it because it fits his personality, his nature.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Faust

Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on May 08, 2020, 12:18:54 AM
Quote from: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:01:46 AM
There's nothing I like about it either but the choices remain the same

  • Uprising and change the system - The logical and sane choice, therefore wont happen
  • Not just vote for Biden but promote Biden because as a lame duck he's not going to do it on his own, especially not when the only thing anyone hears about is the allegations
  • Resign to have already lost, remain morally intact, through another four years of Trump.

There is a fourth option nobody seems to even consider: organize and do the things you wish the government would do instead of waiting for Biden or whoever to climb down off their shitty poll numbers and lend a hand. The government is, after all, just a big fat organization of human beings. There's no natural law that says we're only allowed to have one.
That would require option 1 and only works if what you are doing is not in direct contradiction or impeded by the government, can you provide healthcare, an income safety net, free education and insurance for all? If so you can do option one. I like this, people should, but it means inverting a culture that will be working against you.
If that fails, it  defaults back to option 3.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Faust

I'm sorry if I'm being really pessimistic about this.
Positives: Both stand a good chance of dying of old age in office
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Pergamos

Quote from: Faust on May 07, 2020, 11:34:04 PM
OK I've been thinking about this, ever since Dimo's thread.
And its something I feel is morally grey and horrible, and if anyone dislikes it, they need to understand I feel the same way:

I don't think the grudging "I guess I have no choice but to vote biden" is going to work

When the perceived choice is:
The lefts old boring and perceived  lame duck
The rights golden boy and or Troll Entertainment Factory

Biden has a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

He is going to lose the election because his supporters have to do it in spite of dull, tired persona, the weird out of touch comments and of course, the rape allegations.
Those same allegations when levelled at Mr "Grab them by the pussy", inexplicably increase trumps support, not reduce it.

If Biden is going to win, if there is any chance at all, everyone who wants trump out is going to have to focus on whatever few positives he has going. I say this because the only active discussions I am seeing of him at the moment from either side, is on the sexual assault stuff.

It means putting that discussion aside (at least in wider quarters than here), it can wait until day one of his presidency, but it will have to wait or he will lose.

I understand if moral integrity don't allow for that. The preferable option would be to break the system that makes shit float to the top, but apathy and being literally unable to congregate makes that a pipe dream.

Or maybe that is exactly how the con wins: forced to silence complaints about the lesser of two evils.

Another possibilty would be focusing on Trump's negatives.  Not that he's a rapist, that he's a con man, and is running concentration camps, and is completely fucking up the corona response.

Faust

There have been pushes, but they are fragmented, what happens is the media picks up a story for a while, and then moves on to the next outrage. The problem is he does them so consistently the older stuff goes out of the public eye he performing a DOS attack on peoples attention span with all the awful shit he pulls
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Cramulus

Quote from: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:26:20 AM
Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on May 08, 2020, 12:16:28 AM

And while people who ought to be supporting Biden might damage his chances by shit talking him instead, I will always be amazed that it's the rank and file citizens who get the shit end of everybody's "goddammit be better" hate, and not the party bosses who put an asshole like Biden on the ballot in the first place. Why is it my responsibility to shut up and smile and do my duty, but it's never the Pelosi Wing's job to stop cramming horseshit down our throats?

Because unfortunately it is the part that is directly in your control.

Pelosi and the party wont be held accountable as long as the US has a two party system. If there is a chance of changing or breaking that, that would be the preferred option.

And yes it is a thin paint job, but the only chance Biden has of winning is with that Weekend At Bernies strategy, because the current trajectory is taking him away and not closer. There are borderline people who will see the negativity and vote trump out of the devil you know, or the fact that there is some sick double standard:
I don't know if is a psychological effect or what, but the sexual assault allegations on biden are reprehensible and stick in the mind, while trumps followers either revel in it, and his detractors dont keep the focus on it, because it seems to be expected of him, he gets away with it because it fits his personality, his nature.


If what Biden needs to win is that I, personally, either (a) stop talking about politics, or (b) lie about my opinions--even when talking amongst friends on a forum with like 10 users... he's already dead in the water, and I really don't feel like you should put that on ME.

If you (the plural you) really believe that's the strategy we need right now to beat Trump--then I encourage you to post in support of Biden on social media.

For real. Everybody who thinks that negativity surrounding Joe Biden is what's gonna keep him from crossing the finish line should make a pro-biden post on FB and then engage the people who respond negatively.

It could work. You could actually start a groundswell of "he's not that bad, actually" which could lead to genuine enthusiasm. I will even buy you one of those official campaign t-shirts.




Faust

Quote from: Cramulus on May 08, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:26:20 AM
Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on May 08, 2020, 12:16:28 AM

And while people who ought to be supporting Biden might damage his chances by shit talking him instead, I will always be amazed that it's the rank and file citizens who get the shit end of everybody's "goddammit be better" hate, and not the party bosses who put an asshole like Biden on the ballot in the first place. Why is it my responsibility to shut up and smile and do my duty, but it's never the Pelosi Wing's job to stop cramming horseshit down our throats?

Because unfortunately it is the part that is directly in your control.

Pelosi and the party wont be held accountable as long as the US has a two party system. If there is a chance of changing or breaking that, that would be the preferred option.

And yes it is a thin paint job, but the only chance Biden has of winning is with that Weekend At Bernies strategy, because the current trajectory is taking him away and not closer. There are borderline people who will see the negativity and vote trump out of the devil you know, or the fact that there is some sick double standard:
I don't know if is a psychological effect or what, but the sexual assault allegations on biden are reprehensible and stick in the mind, while trumps followers either revel in it, and his detractors dont keep the focus on it, because it seems to be expected of him, he gets away with it because it fits his personality, his nature.


If what Biden needs to win is that I, personally, either (a) stop talking about politics, or (b) lie about my opinions--even when talking amongst friends on a forum with like 10 users... he's already dead in the water, and I really don't feel like you should put that on ME.
That is fair, it's not on you, its on him for being a useless shit heel who's only redeeming feature is he is not trump, it is also possible that even if you were to do that, he will STILL lose because he is Biden.

Quote
If you (the plural you) really believe that's the strategy we need right now to beat Trump--then I encourage you to post in support of Biden on social media.

For real. Everybody who thinks that negativity surrounding Joe Biden is what's gonna keep him from crossing the finish line should make a pro-biden post on FB and then engage the people who respond negatively.
I believe that biden himself is what is going to keep him from crossing the finish line and the only chance he has is if there is any kind of unified push behind him and even if people are to try and paint him in a positive light, its still unlikely to succeed.
Thinking about it, rather then stoop to these levels, I think its cleaner to say that he has already lost and it will be another four years of Trump, if we survive that with integrity, that needs to be reflected all the way from 21-24, something seriously needs to change.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Cramulus

yeah, I mean, I understand.

Note that thread where Dimo asked for advice about how to encourage people to vote for Biden -- I gave a sincere answer, presented many reasons why progessives should vote for him. I've posted a lot on FB about how the upcoming supreme court selections are more important than whatever figure head sits in the oval office. I've refrained from getting into the sexual harassment stuff, perhaps even to the point where I'm being willful ignorant about it.

And I'm hearing a lot of criticism, within the left, for not embracing Biden.. but I don't see ANYBODY embracing him without a bunch of asterisks and caveats. So I'll take the criticism seriously once people put their money where their mouth is. Lead by example - go do some pro-biden cheerleading. If we're doing a "Weekend at Bernie's" shtick, show me how it's done.

Faust

Quote from: Cramulus on May 08, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
yeah, I mean, I understand.

Note that thread where Dimo asked for advice about how to encourage people to vote for Biden -- I gave a sincere answer, presented many reasons why progessives should vote for him. I've posted a lot on FB about how the upcoming supreme court selections are more important than whatever figure head sits in the oval office. I've refrained from getting into the sexual harassment stuff, perhaps even to the point where I'm being willful ignorant about it.

And I'm hearing a lot of criticism, within the left, for not embracing Biden.. but I don't see ANYBODY embracing him without a bunch of asterisks and caveats. So I'll take the criticism seriously once people put their money where their mouth is. Lead by example - go do some pro-biden cheerleading. If we're doing a "Weekend at Bernie's" shtick, show me how it's done.
The picks for the supreme court is a good one, probably the single one that holds back the erosion of civil rights. I'll Cheerlead where I can. It's harder from Ireland, but we have an American branch now at work so I'll try it with them and any of the online stomping grounds
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Faust

And yes it is hypocritical of me to put out the call for action when I have deleted all my social media sites and groups I interact with then here. If it comes to put up or shut up, then this place would have been the best place for me to do it
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Doktor Howl

Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on May 08, 2020, 12:18:54 AM
Quote from: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:01:46 AM
There's nothing I like about it either but the choices remain the same

  • Uprising and change the system - The logical and sane choice, therefore wont happen
  • Not just vote for Biden but promote Biden because as a lame duck he's not going to do it on his own, especially not when the only thing anyone hears about is the allegations
  • Resign to have already lost, remain morally intact, through another four years of Trump.

There is a fourth option nobody seems to even consider: organize and do the things you wish the government would do instead of waiting for Biden or whoever to climb down off their shitty poll numbers and lend a hand. The government is, after all, just a big fat organization of human beings. There's no natural law that says we're only allowed to have one.

Okay.  Lead by example, here.
Molon Lube