Capeshit

[hooplala]

Back to comics for a second... I really wosh we could go back to a pre-Harley Quinn world. /rant

Holy crap this.

Why? I loved her in the animated series, shes one of those ambivalent characters between good and evil that adds some depth.

But the Suicide Squad Harley i would def say something among the lines of:

Because the Joker doesn't need a sidekick, and I feel like it softened him as a character somehow. This guy shouldn't be developing relationships. He's barely human.

[The Johnny]

Back to comics for a second... I really wosh we could go back to a pre-Harley Quinn world. /rant

Holy crap this.

Why? I loved her in the animated series, shes one of those ambivalent characters between good and evil that adds some depth.

But the Suicide Squad Harley i would def say something among the lines of:

Because the Joker doesn't need a sidekick, and I feel like it softened him as a character somehow. This guy shouldn't be developing relationships. He's barely human.

What does being or not human even mean? 

But i kinda see a point... I vaguely remember that there were apparently "genuine" moments in which Joker seemed to care about her and get mushy beyond of what Harley Quinn needed to keep her "under his spell" which does break Jokers character and does unreasonably soften him for the sake of a childrens series "love shipping".

So maybe the core problem is how Joker treats Harley, not Harley in herself which is a complex multi-dimensional character... a psychiatrist and representative of "medical law" that falls for this criminal loon, but has moments in which she comes to her senses and breaks away from him... Harley actually has dilemmas and uncertainties, while Batman and the Joker are just monolitich memes.

[hooplala]

Back to comics for a second... I really wosh we could go back to a pre-Harley Quinn world. /rant

Holy crap this.

Why? I loved her in the animated series, shes one of those ambivalent characters between good and evil that adds some depth.

But the Suicide Squad Harley i would def say something among the lines of:

Because the Joker doesn't need a sidekick, and I feel like it softened him as a character somehow. This guy shouldn't be developing relationships. He's barely human.

What does being or not human even mean? 

But i kinda see a point... I vaguely remember that there were apparently "genuine" moments in which Joker seemed to care about her and get mushy beyond of what Harley Quinn needed to keep her "under his spell" which does break Jokers character and does unreasonably soften him for the sake of a childrens series "love shipping".

So maybe the core problem is how Joker treats Harley, not Harley in herself which is a complex multi-dimensional character... a psychiatrist and representative of "medical law" that falls for this criminal loon, but has moments in which she comes to her senses and breaks away from him... Harley actually has dilemmas and uncertainties, while Batman and the Joker are just monolitich memes.

Sorry for sort of derailing, Cram.

1. On Joker as a non-person: he doesn't have any discernible likes or hates, he doesn't even seem to hate Batman most of the time. Does he have hobbies, other than causing mayhem? What frightens him, if anything? He's a storytelling decice, a force of nature, but rarely anything resembling a person in the full sense of the word. Even Hannibal Lecter has more humam characteristcs, and he is one of the least believeable characters in modern fiction.

B. On her own I have no real issue with Harley. The episodes where she is in a relationship with Ivy ate actually pretty good. My issue is strictly when she is connected to Joker, which is a lot.

[Pergamos]

Snip

So you should probably read Worm. It deals with quite literally all of your complaints, up to and including selling superpowers and random people having powers being a horrible thing. And the stupid costumes, even. And secret identities and seriously, I think it covers every single thing you mentioned.

https://parahumans.wordpress.com

It's not in comic or movie form, but it is a surprisingly "real" take on the genre. Also has some really good characters, and some excellent societal commentary as time goes on. First two arcs are slow, leaning into annoying, but it picks up pace fast enough and doesn't stop accelerating. By arc 8 the wheels come off and the rockets kick in, and you're only just about through the intro.

It's also fucking huge. I wouldn't blame you if you skipped it on size alone.

I'm reading, and enjoying it.  It reads as fanfic written by an adolescent though so I wouldn't personally reccomend it as a way to redeem the superhero genre.  A talented adolescent mind you, not knocking it, and that might be exactly the portal some people need to appreciate the idea of superheroes.  I just wouldn't peg Cram as one of those people.

[altered]

Snip

So you should probably read Worm. It deals with quite literally all of your complaints, up to and including selling superpowers and random people having powers being a horrible thing. And the stupid costumes, even. And secret identities and seriously, I think it covers every single thing you mentioned.

https://parahumans.wordpress.com

It's not in comic or movie form, but it is a surprisingly "real" take on the genre. Also has some really good characters, and some excellent societal commentary as time goes on. First two arcs are slow, leaning into annoying, but it picks up pace fast enough and doesn't stop accelerating. By arc 8 the wheels come off and the rockets kick in, and you're only just about through the intro.

It's also fucking huge. I wouldn't blame you if you skipped it on size alone.

I'm reading, and enjoying it.  It reads as fanfic written by an adolescent though so I wouldn't personally reccomend it as a way to redeem the superhero genre.  A talented adolescent mind you, not knocking it, and that might be exactly the portal some people need to appreciate the idea of superheroes.  I just wouldn't peg Cram as one of those people.

That's the introductory part. I find the adolescent POV annoying, and it quickly gets buried under all the other stuff.

[Doktor Howl]

Back to comics for a second... I really wosh we could go back to a pre-Harley Quinn world. /rant

Holy crap this.

Why? I loved her in the animated series, shes one of those ambivalent characters between good and evil that adds some depth.

But the Suicide Squad Harley i would def say something among the lines of:

Because the Joker doesn't need a sidekick, and I feel like it softened him as a character somehow. This guy shouldn't be developing relationships. He's barely human.

What does being or not human even mean? 

But i kinda see a point... I vaguely remember that there were apparently "genuine" moments in which Joker seemed to care about her and get mushy beyond of what Harley Quinn needed to keep her "under his spell" which does break Jokers character and does unreasonably soften him for the sake of a childrens series "love shipping".

So maybe the core problem is how Joker treats Harley, not Harley in herself which is a complex multi-dimensional character... a psychiatrist and representative of "medical law" that falls for this criminal loon, but has moments in which she comes to her senses and breaks away from him... Harley actually has dilemmas and uncertainties, while Batman and the Joker are just monolitich memes.

Even absolute pyschopaths can fall in love.

[The Johnny]

Back to comics for a second... I really wosh we could go back to a pre-Harley Quinn world. /rant

Holy crap this.

Why? I loved her in the animated series, shes one of those ambivalent characters between good and evil that adds some depth.

But the Suicide Squad Harley i would def say something among the lines of:

Because the Joker doesn't need a sidekick, and I feel like it softened him as a character somehow. This guy shouldn't be developing relationships. He's barely human.

What does being or not human even mean? 

But i kinda see a point... I vaguely remember that there were apparently "genuine" moments in which Joker seemed to care about her and get mushy beyond of what Harley Quinn needed to keep her "under his spell" which does break Jokers character and does unreasonably soften him for the sake of a childrens series "love shipping".

So maybe the core problem is how Joker treats Harley, not Harley in herself which is a complex multi-dimensional character... a psychiatrist and representative of "medical law" that falls for this criminal loon, but has moments in which she comes to her senses and breaks away from him... Harley actually has dilemmas and uncertainties, while Batman and the Joker are just monolitich memes.

Even absolute pyschopaths can fall in love.

That argument is among the lines of what i was saying with "what does not human even mean?" in regards of him not having any kind of relationship.

From public discourse to manuals on psychopathology were told that true psychopaths feel zero empathy and that others are merely playthings or objects... and maybe its just what we would like to think, its more comftable to think that these people are not human, that they are merely monsters disguised as human, its more comforting than the alternate idea that every average Joe/Hans can participate in genocide just like it happened in Nazi germany.

I dont have a real solid unchanging posture on it, but maybe thats what people hate about Harley Quinn, shes flawed and ambivalent and that makes her human, and she brings out the humanity in Batman in the way he shows mercy towards her instead of stomping her out like every other petty criminal he runs into, and in Joker in the way he shows affection and caring towards her even if the general tone is of an abusive and exploitative nature.

[hooplala]

Can is not should.

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Can you imagine what elections would be like?

Aren't a sizable percentage of world leaders already supervillains?

[Doktor Howl]

Can is not should.

You're really not serious about havin' a good time, are you?

[hooplala]

Can is not should.

You're really not serious about havin' a good time, are you?

Or perhaps I am too serious about it.

[Doktor Howl]

Can is not should.

You're really not serious about havin' a good time, are you?

Or perhaps I am too serious about it.

Can you ever be sufficiently committed to Sparkle Motion™?

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Back to comics for a second... I really wosh we could go back to a pre-Harley Quinn world. /rant

Holy crap this.

Why? I loved her in the animated series, shes one of those ambivalent characters between good and evil that adds some depth.

But the Suicide Squad Harley i would def say something among the lines of:

Because the Joker doesn't need a sidekick, and I feel like it softened him as a character somehow. This guy shouldn't be developing relationships. He's barely human.

What does being or not human even mean? 

But i kinda see a point... I vaguely remember that there were apparently "genuine" moments in which Joker seemed to care about her and get mushy beyond of what Harley Quinn needed to keep her "under his spell" which does break Jokers character and does unreasonably soften him for the sake of a childrens series "love shipping".

So maybe the core problem is how Joker treats Harley, not Harley in herself which is a complex multi-dimensional character... a psychiatrist and representative of "medical law" that falls for this criminal loon, but has moments in which she comes to her senses and breaks away from him... Harley actually has dilemmas and uncertainties, while Batman and the Joker are just monolitich memes.

Even absolute pyschopaths can fall in love.

Yeah, look at the Moors Murderers, and Fred and Rose West, and to a lesser extent Bonnie and Clyde

[The Johnny]

Can you imagine what elections would be like?

Aren't a sizable percentage of world leaders already supervillains?

Give them a couple of years, we're getting there 

Most are just really uninspired (and un-checked) capitalist pigs, so its as entertaining as going to a barn. But boy oh boy, with the return of fascism its gonna get ENTERTANING.

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

What about regular law enforcement, how would that square with the normalization of vigilante justice?

I know that Batman reports to Comissioner Gordon and has permission from the police to do what he is doing (although Comissioner Gordon likely has radically overstepped his authority), and Auqaman theortically has diplomatic immunity due to being the king of Atlantis. Superman may have diplomatic immunity as well since he is, by default, effectively the Kryptonian government, as only one is required for Krypton to remain a relevant power and for much of his storyline he is the only kryptonian survivor who is neither disqualified due to being an exiled criminal nor being held prisoner by the supervillain Brainiac