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The Holy Rage

Started by The Wizard Joseph, March 17, 2019, 01:10:59 AM

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The Wizard Joseph

Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 18, 2019, 01:34:54 AM
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on March 17, 2019, 07:11:40 PM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on March 17, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
I merely acknowledge that this part of us exists and embrace it.
How do you personally embrace it?  Recognizing your capacity for anger and violence is one thing.  But when have you experienced Holy Rage, and what did you do with it?  Other than beating up an innocent mattress, I mean.

Why on Earth are you giving someone a ration of shit for a bit of rage?

I would think the subforum's name might indicate that this is where we generate & store rage.

That's what I thought
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on March 18, 2019, 05:13:30 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 18, 2019, 01:34:54 AM
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on March 17, 2019, 07:11:40 PM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on March 17, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
I merely acknowledge that this part of us exists and embrace it.
How do you personally embrace it?  Recognizing your capacity for anger and violence is one thing.  But when have you experienced Holy Rage, and what did you do with it?  Other than beating up an innocent mattress, I mean.

Why on Earth are you giving someone a ration of shit for a bit of rage?

I would think the subforum's name might indicate that this is where we generate & store rage.

That's what I thought

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"

But if you don't care for my comments and criticisms (which in this case, crossed well into flame territory) I will refrain from replying to your posts or threads.  You need only ask.  I like to spar, but it's better if the other side is getting something out of it.

This wouldn't apply, of course, to posts you make in my threads, or which are directed at me.  Armistice, not disarmament.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

The Wizard Joseph

Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on March 18, 2019, 06:37:46 PM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on March 18, 2019, 05:13:30 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 18, 2019, 01:34:54 AM
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on March 17, 2019, 07:11:40 PM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on March 17, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
I merely acknowledge that this part of us exists and embrace it.
How do you personally embrace it?  Recognizing your capacity for anger and violence is one thing.  But when have you experienced Holy Rage, and what did you do with it?  Other than beating up an innocent mattress, I mean.

Why on Earth are you giving someone a ration of shit for a bit of rage?

I would think the subforum's name might indicate that this is where we generate & store rage.

That's what I thought

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"

But if you don't care for my comments and criticisms (which in this case, crossed well into flame territory) I will refrain from replying to your posts or threads.  You need only ask.  I like to spar, but it's better if the other side is getting something out of it.

This wouldn't apply, of course, to posts you make in my threads, or which are directed at me.  Armistice, not disarmament.

:kingmeh:

This reads like "Waah! I didn't get the reaction I wanted for my mediocre trolling so I'm not going to do it anymore... If you don't want me to. You do don't want me to don't you?"

Bruh at no point did I tell you to fuck off. There was a time fairly long ago now before I learned how to comport myself on this forum, or any forum this is my only one, and I used to reply to Howl's work with zany write-ups of no meaningful value. At one point he directly told me to fuck off. I even got my very own unlimited thread. I wasn't even trying to be a troll as I didn't understand what that was at the time, I was just crazy. I took him at his word and stop posting on his threads. Eventually I got my head out of my ass. Now I count him among my friends and treat them with respect.

What I'm getting at is that your stuff doesn't really rate me telling you not to post on my threads. That was pretty weak sauce tbh.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

hooplala

I've been following the entire thread. I did not get the impression anyone was trolling you, TWJ.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

The Wizard Joseph

Quote from: Hoopla! on March 19, 2019, 12:32:36 AM
I've been following the entire thread. I did not get the impression anyone was trolling you, TWJ.

I'm under the impression that CNO was looking for a reaction. When that reaction didn't materialize CNO went with "well I guess I won't post on your threads if you don't want me to" when I didn't play the tough guy to the taunting.

A lot of people posted quite legitimate concerns. These I will address when I get a chance.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on March 18, 2019, 11:54:31 PM
:kingmeh:

This reads like "Waah! I didn't get the reaction I wanted for my mediocre trolling so I'm not going to do it anymore... If you don't want me to. You do don't want me to don't you?"
I started out participating in this thread in good faith; I only started poking at you when you began to dodge contrary viewpoints.  Not just mine; Cramulus and nullified have made better points than I have, which I think deserve to be directly addressed.  Maybe you will get around to it?  But I think you'll just repeat your position.  I'm not seeing any signs of introspection, self-criticism, or consideration of the possibility that what you're saying might be anything less than the truth.  You're spending too much time on my lukewarm flaming, and not enough on hammering out your own thoughts.


Quote
Bruh at no point did I tell you to fuck off. There was a time fairly long ago now before I learned how to comport myself on this forum, or any forum this is my only one, and I used to reply to Howl's work with zany write-ups of no meaningful value. At one point he directly told me to fuck off. I even got my very own unlimited thread. I wasn't even trying to be a troll as I didn't understand what that was at the time, I was just crazy. I took him at his word and stop posting on his threads. Eventually I got my head out of my ass. Now I count him among my friends and treat them with respect.

What I'm getting at is that your stuff doesn't really rate me telling you not to post on my threads. That was pretty weak sauce tbh.
Now there's a smidge of the Holy Rage I wanted to see.

Honestly, I was starting to feel a little uncomfortable about my comportment in this thread, and your comment "That's what I thought", made me wonder if I was crossing a line.  Being poorly socialized, I sometimes have difficulty reading the room.  But since you seem okay with it, I guess I was worried for nothing.  I withdraw the offer.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on March 19, 2019, 12:49:38 AM
I'm under the impression that CNO was looking for a reaction.
What I want is to see the expression on your face when you look at yourself in the mirror.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

altered

Speaking as someone who has only followed TWJ as a passive reader for most of her time on the forum, your viewpoint of him is wholly contrary to my direct experience.

He has been one of the /more/ introspective and level-headed individuals here. He moves slowly but deliberately when he changes his mind. He gives every word the time it deserves, treating rants and outbursts as a kind of poetry to deconstruct and look at the components of for fullest understanding, from what I've seen. He's also made a big journey in his time here, from lame mystically flavored shitposter to one of the more valuable contributors.

You aren't really giving him a fair shake, CNO.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: nullified on March 19, 2019, 01:19:20 AM
Speaking as someone who has only followed TWJ as a passive reader for most of her time on the forum, your viewpoint of him is wholly contrary to my direct experience.

He has been one of the /more/ introspective and level-headed individuals here. He moves slowly but deliberately when he changes his mind. He gives every word the time it deserves, treating rants and outbursts as a kind of poetry to deconstruct and look at the components of for fullest understanding, from what I've seen. He's also made a big journey in his time here, from lame mystically flavored shitposter to one of the more valuable contributors.

You aren't really giving him a fair shake, CNO.

Well, my initial impression of you was entirely wrong (and I think I owe you an apology), so I can hardly claim infallibility.  But since I haven't been here all that long, I don't share your perspective of TWJ.

If he lives up to your description, then I shall eat my words.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Telarus

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on March 18, 2019, 04:10:35 AM
Quote from: Telarus on March 17, 2019, 10:38:43 PM

nullified describes the problem very succinctly, and has found his own solution.


She.

Mahalo (thanks).
Telarus, KSC,
.__.  Keeper of the Contradictory Cephalopod, Zenarchist Swordsman,
(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
/||\   Episkopos of the Amorphous Dreams Cabal

Join the Doll Underground! Experience the Phantasmagorical Safari!

Q. G. Pennyworth

I feel like the OP is coming from a similar place as Three Strengths and Love Your Ugly, but it did rub me the wrong way too. I don't know that I'd go as far with my criticism as some other folks in this thread, but it's definitely just a little off.

I got you this


altered

I get the general thrust of TWJs point, and even would say I agree with the direction.

Don't deny this beast is in you. Don't refuse it when it's your life on the line. Remember it is holy, it has the blood of gods in its veins, and it is (whether you like it or not), part of being a Human Being. You can't walk properly upright if you don't recognize the massive Sasquatch jumping on your shoulders, baying for blood and death.

But ... what Cram's post said is why I /fear/ that beast, for the same reason that reverence of Shiva for most Shaivite Hindus includes trying your damnedest not to wake him up.

I don't know a single person who has never encountered momentary minor frustration with someone and immediately wanted to flatten them with a rock. It's in our bones, and while I don't know for sure (as I keep that shit on a tight leash), it seems to me like it's far too easy for someone to give into that thought.

The intrusive, boundless inner ape rage is holy, useful, intrinsically part of us, and /terrifying/. I respect it like I respect a loaded gun, a bear in the backyard, a flash flood. I respect it and hope to fuck it never turns my way.

So my problem isn't the direction, it's the distance. I cannot love or embrace something that reacts to every minor mishap by wanting to obliterate face. I can respect it, but I cannot forget its capabilities, and that it has no control and will not stop for love, but only if made to. That's specifically the issue I have with it.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

hooplala

I think the issue might be that a lot of people seem to have been giving in to rage in recent years, to our detriment as a society. I don't know that it's really an aspect of ourselves that we are not already intimately acquainted with.

That's my take, anyway.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

The Wizard Joseph

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on March 20, 2019, 04:36:57 AM
I feel like the OP is coming from a similar place as Three Strengths and Love Your Ugly, but it did rub me the wrong way too. I don't know that I'd go as far with my criticism as some other folks in this thread, but it's definitely just a little off.

I got you this



I love it thank you. I think I'll use it as a Facebook background for a while.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

The Wizard Joseph

#59
A piece at a time I'm going to reread the entire thread and attempt to put together a more scholarly and thoughtful reply to what people have posted. This will take me awhile as I'm a slow mo.

I thank you all for your replies they are thoughtful and to the point. Don't think that just because I didn't reply to something immediately I'm being dismissive. I respect everybody who's posted to this thread and thank you for your thoughts, even CNO was clearly quite, quite intelligent.

Nullified is quite correct that I'm slow and deliberate by Nature. I will seek to give proper scholarship to the thought in this next part of the write-up.


Edit to add that in the passion of the rant I may have overstated or Miss stated some things.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl