Author Topic: Cancel Culture  (Read 18941 times)

The Johnny

  • did nots
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 4428
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #90 on: April 13, 2019, 03:36:03 am »
Consider for a moment Mein Kampf in the context of the manifesto of the Christchurch killer.

Very few people can be trusted to handle that sort of thing /responsibly/. Professionals specifically asked people not to spread it around. It can be useful, sure! But it’s like plutonium: it’s only useful in the hands of people who know what they’re doing, and it’s at best a mild hazard and at worst a horrific radioactive excursion incident for everyone else.

If any random person has a copy of Mein Kampf on their shelf, it’s almost a guarantee that they are a horrible human, damn near 100% of the time. There are precious, precious few exceptions, and they tend to have degrees and shit. We would feel the same about almost anyone who kept the Christchurch killer’s manifesto on their desktop, and for good reason.

On one hand its true that people are influenced easily and can only interpret things at a face value, so i know where youre coming from... on the other hand its treating the citizenry as mentally challenged children, which is very beneficial to a paternalistic authoritative government... maybe the solution is a critical-thinking based education, but nobodys going to allow that in this continent.

Maybe thats the bigger problem, were stuck between two modes, embracing or censoring/repressing a thought with nothing in between, with different groups trying to police literature/media in the way that theyre capable of... im a bad example because im an academic, but i keep Mussolinis manifesto and Anna Freud's books because even tho i think theyre vile, i try to understand them so i can criticize them properly... it seems like im drifting far from the OP but i think these things are relevant to it too in some manner.

<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

altered

  • Reluctant Mad Prophet of Mushussu Qudmu
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Beggar-Knight of Eris Militant
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #91 on: April 13, 2019, 03:37:38 am »
I split my response into two posts because I wanted to give the second half some more thought but thought you deserved the initial response to the first half before it had been too long in the oven.

I agree that America is very polarized and split up. I’d argue that’s because of the range and disconnection of the badness inherent in American culture.

Bigotry is bad.
A lot of current black and Hispanic culture is very sexist and homophobic.
White Gays think they can be racist because “we’re a minority too!”
Literal fascists walk the streets with torches, crash cars into protestors, organize massive harassment campaigns of anyone who opposes them.
Feminists that hate some women because a doctor called them something else at birth exist.
A whole movement of men that believe women owe them sex and are inherently inferior and unsuited to any other purpose exists.
People born with functional disabilities are told to suck it up and stop leeching off the system, put in police vans, sent to prison for the crime of not being physically able to drag themselves out of the room.
Journalists are literally body-slammed into tables by sitting politicians for asking questions about these things.
Police shoot unarmed civilians for the crime of being differently colored.
Trans people tell other trans people they aren’t really trans because they don’t suffer enough extra bullshit on top of the social suffering they already go through.
And disabled, queer people of color die at a higher rate than any other group, no matter how finely divided. They have a higher rate of homelessness than any other group. Their lives are shit, by any definition.

No one is not guilty of some bullshit unless they’re the most victimized people possible to find. That’s going to cause some fucking polarization.
“I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.”

“Ever watch that famous war movie? That’s how it’ll be.”
“Which one?”
“The one where everybody dies.”
— Blood Standard, Laird Barron

Remember the fall of Yin Tu.

altered

  • Reluctant Mad Prophet of Mushussu Qudmu
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Beggar-Knight of Eris Militant
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #92 on: April 13, 2019, 03:49:55 am »
With regards to you owning these sort of texts: I actually would believe you would have a chance of using these things correctly in the first place. You have the philosophical background from PD alone, without regard to any other extra education you’ve possibly had, and you have a degree in psychology, right? Add in your inherent distaste for the beliefs espoused. That’s the exact person best suited to approach these things safely, I think.

I would say probably the /vast majority of people here/ count as part of that group, even. Cain certainly seems to think so, given he offered so send the Christchurch manifesto in private to people on the board. I don’t distrust his judgement there, it’s a valid bit of evidence to back this belief I have up.

But the average person is not, I think, mentally built for it. They certainly /can/ be, but they haven’t gone through the steps to reach that point. Cain not simply posting it in the open would also seem to agree with my belief here.

I agree that a critical thinking course as a basic grade school class on the order of math or English would be a good solution, but I also think that if everyone had decent mental health professionals in their life and training in weapons handling, firearms would not be a particularly big problem. (Switzerland has a very large amount of privately owned weapons per capita, but very few mass shootings.) Given neither is the case nor ever likely to be the case, damage reduction needs to be considered.
“I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.”

“Ever watch that famous war movie? That’s how it’ll be.”
“Which one?”
“The one where everybody dies.”
— Blood Standard, Laird Barron

Remember the fall of Yin Tu.

chaotic neutral observer

  • Groucho Marxist
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 1080
  • I saw what you did and I'm okay with it
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #93 on: April 13, 2019, 05:26:04 am »

Fujikoma, at what point does posting 5 times in a row in a 2 minute span with one-liners is it considered spam?

If i could mute you i would have done so already, so could you at least do me the courtesy of fitting your brain leakage to a single post so i can just scroll thru it faster?

It's a bit awkward to find, but it's there.

Click "Profile" -> "Summary"
Click "Modify Profile" -> "Nemesis/Ignore List..." -> Edit Ignore List
Type "Fujikoma" in the "Member" box, click "Add".
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

altered

  • Reluctant Mad Prophet of Mushussu Qudmu
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Beggar-Knight of Eris Militant
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #94 on: April 13, 2019, 05:28:25 am »
Nemesis doesn’t appear to work on Tapatalk, which is the only way to really use the forum on mobile.
“I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.”

“Ever watch that famous war movie? That’s how it’ll be.”
“Which one?”
“The one where everybody dies.”
— Blood Standard, Laird Barron

Remember the fall of Yin Tu.

Al Qədic

  • Nonexistent Amphibian Who Is Not Very
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Chairwoman of Feldspathic Rananite
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2019, 05:33:02 am »
Nemesis doesn’t appear to work on Tapatalk, which is the only way to really use the forum on mobile.
This probably won't be helpful to mention, but I use chrome on mobile to access the forum and it works just fine.
There is no reason to,
Be ashamed of poetry. It,
Is natural. But you should,
Still do it in private,
And wash your hands afterward.

The Johnny

  • did nots
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 4428
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2019, 05:37:38 am »

Fujikoma, at what point does posting 5 times in a row in a 2 minute span with one-liners is it considered spam?

If i could mute you i would have done so already, so could you at least do me the courtesy of fitting your brain leakage to a single post so i can just scroll thru it faster?

It's a bit awkward to find, but it's there.

Click "Profile" -> "Summary"
Click "Modify Profile" -> "Nemesis/Ignore List..." -> Edit Ignore List
Type "Fujikoma" in the "Member" box, click "Add".

Thanks you're an angel. I even had a brief discussion with a mod and he didnt know how to do it and we assumed the function didnt exist anymore.  :lulz:

<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

altered

  • Reluctant Mad Prophet of Mushussu Qudmu
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Beggar-Knight of Eris Militant
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #97 on: April 13, 2019, 05:38:27 am »
It’s far too small for me to read, even on the relatively large screen of this monster phone (shout-out to QGP’s husband, thanks again) without constant zooming, and that becomes a massive headache itself.

I wonder if there’s enough control over the forum display that Faust could make a mobile CSS template for us goofy bastards who post on phones? I am pretty sure this software supports user-defined themes, though I believe the admin has to install them first. I’d uninstall this app for good if the forum was simply made navigable on mobile without suffering, even if only after I logged in.
“I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.”

“Ever watch that famous war movie? That’s how it’ll be.”
“Which one?”
“The one where everybody dies.”
— Blood Standard, Laird Barron

Remember the fall of Yin Tu.

Fujikoma

  • Potato God
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 997
  • Pheremone Octopi of Spiked Intrusion
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #98 on: April 13, 2019, 05:51:14 am »
Wow, no wonder you guys are a muddled mess.

Don Coyote

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 10349
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #99 on: April 13, 2019, 06:16:09 am »
Louis CK mocked the Parkland shooting survivors. Kids who saw their friends die.

Prior to that(?) he went away because it turns out he liked to masturbate in front of young women comedians.


altered

  • Reluctant Mad Prophet of Mushussu Qudmu
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Beggar-Knight of Eris Militant
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #100 on: April 13, 2019, 06:20:54 am »
Forgot about that part. Thanks for reminding me, my memory is honestly terrible.
“I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.”

“Ever watch that famous war movie? That’s how it’ll be.”
“Which one?”
“The one where everybody dies.”
— Blood Standard, Laird Barron

Remember the fall of Yin Tu.

The Johnny

  • did nots
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 4428
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #101 on: April 13, 2019, 06:22:31 am »
I split my response into two posts because I wanted to give the second half some more thought but thought you deserved the initial response to the first half before it had been too long in the oven.

I agree that America is very polarized and split up. I’d argue that’s because of the range and disconnection of the badness inherent in American culture.

Bigotry is bad.
A lot of current black and Hispanic culture is very sexist and homophobic.
White Gays think they can be racist because “we’re a minority too!”
Literal fascists walk the streets with torches, crash cars into protestors, organize massive harassment campaigns of anyone who opposes them.
Feminists that hate some women because a doctor called them something else at birth exist.
A whole movement of men that believe women owe them sex and are inherently inferior and unsuited to any other purpose exists.
People born with functional disabilities are told to suck it up and stop leeching off the system, put in police vans, sent to prison for the crime of not being physically able to drag themselves out of the room.
Journalists are literally body-slammed into tables by sitting politicians for asking questions about these things.
Police shoot unarmed civilians for the crime of being differently colored.
Trans people tell other trans people they aren’t really trans because they don’t suffer enough extra bullshit on top of the social suffering they already go through.
And disabled, queer people of color die at a higher rate than any other group, no matter how finely divided. They have a higher rate of homelessness than any other group. Their lives are shit, by any definition.

No one is not guilty of some bullshit unless they’re the most victimized people possible to find. That’s going to cause some fucking polarization.

The only case of divide in recent popular opinion has been about this actress, Yalitza Aparicio, who played a housemaid in the movie "Roma"... mostly about how shes a "pinche india" that is all over important magazines covers, starring in shampoo commercials and nominated for important awards... which is a mix between proffessional envy of her success and outright racist hatred.

The thing is, the opinions that defend her, and the opinions that are against her are of zero absolute consequences... its like literally the importance of a youtube video comments feud. There are no jobs lost, no boycotting, no breaking of friendships over it... its like picking a sports team and supporting it, and opposing the other teams.

Theres other cultural differences overall... here media isnt something you participate in, youre merely a consumer, and you either like it or shut up about it, theres no discussion... not because its prohibited but because entertainment is just what it is, entertainment and it doesnt bleed over to politics nor the other way around.

And im not even saying this is a good or a bad thing it just is, but considering the list you offered:

-The only real ethnic divide we have is "urban mexican" and "indigena"... which in fact ontologically is just a matter of degree, since all mexicans are of mixed race, were mostly a mix between spaniard and native, or euro and native... so even if some of us hate the more pure-blood natives it would seem more an economic discrimination than based on race.

-Which brings me to the next point... were so capitalistic that as long as youre middle class and above you wont suffer discrimination for your race or sexual orientation or beliefs... were cosmopolitan and predatory like that, only the poor and the vulnerable dont get to deviate.

Who knows? Maybe all the petty public squabbling is a sign of a healthy democratic and politically involved citizenry... or at least healthier than the apathetic silence we have here... for one, we spent so much time under a single party that commited electoral fraud for so long that discussion seemed pointless... journalists here dont get bodyslammed, they just get killed and buried at unmarked fosas... so maybe dissidents here are accustomed to either be ignored or killed.

Maybe this public rallying is some sort of a "revenge of the opressed" sort of thing?
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

altered

  • Reluctant Mad Prophet of Mushussu Qudmu
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Beggar-Knight of Eris Militant
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #102 on: April 13, 2019, 06:31:46 am »
William Bennett is a musician who invented the genre of power electronics. He has long supported acts in the genre regardless of their political affiliation (including many, many fascists, it’s a fascist playground of a genre really with only a recent spate of queer, largely trans artists entering it shifting that dynamic).

He stopped Whitehouse in 2008, after the release of the 2003 album Bird Seed which had mercifully abandoned all the “shock” imagery (serial killer worship, fascism, extreme racism) for personal rage. His new project, Cut Hands, is based on an extremely racist interpretation of black culture: scary men with spears and loincloths doing voodoo chants type shit. It’s literally distorted tribal percussion.

Bennett is the only one with any complexity to his background, which is why this is by far the biggest description.

Update and corrections.

I said before that Whitehouse’s Bird Seed was largely personal rage. Correcting myself, I was remembering the first third of Cut Hands Has The Solution, which is indeed very much a personal fury. But the rest of it, and the rest of the album as a whole, is all about rape. It is weird revisiting this shit, and I only did it because I had this nagging feeling I was wrong. I was right about being wrong, so in a weird way I’m glad I took the time and spoons to do it.

On a related note, having actually revisited this shit, I was blinded by nostalgia for my first power electronics album. William Bennett is completely disposable. I can and probably should make a power electronics album of my own of similar soul-shattering fury and rage. I could even bake a similar feeling of shame and degradation into the lyrics without resorting to edgy rape rants and victim blaming. Never mind what I said before about him being irreplaceable.
“I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.”

“Ever watch that famous war movie? That’s how it’ll be.”
“Which one?”
“The one where everybody dies.”
— Blood Standard, Laird Barron

Remember the fall of Yin Tu.

The Wizard Joseph

  • Still chasing after the Eternal question, "What IS a Juggalo?"
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 4806
  • Product of Wisconsin
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #103 on: April 13, 2019, 06:51:12 am »
Nemesis doesn’t appear to work on Tapatalk, which is the only way to really use the forum on mobile.

I get by using the website through Chrome. If I have something lengthy to post I use of writing app program to get it down first then copypasta.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

altered

  • Reluctant Mad Prophet of Mushussu Qudmu
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Beggar-Knight of Eris Militant
    • View Profile
Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #104 on: April 13, 2019, 06:52:14 am »
I split my response into two posts because I wanted to give the second half some more thought but thought you deserved the initial response to the first half before it had been too long in the oven.

I agree that America is very polarized and split up. I’d argue that’s because of the range and disconnection of the badness inherent in American culture.

Bigotry is bad.
A lot of current black and Hispanic culture is very sexist and homophobic.
White Gays think they can be racist because “we’re a minority too!”
Literal fascists walk the streets with torches, crash cars into protestors, organize massive harassment campaigns of anyone who opposes them.
Feminists that hate some women because a doctor called them something else at birth exist.
A whole movement of men that believe women owe them sex and are inherently inferior and unsuited to any other purpose exists.
People born with functional disabilities are told to suck it up and stop leeching off the system, put in police vans, sent to prison for the crime of not being physically able to drag themselves out of the room.
Journalists are literally body-slammed into tables by sitting politicians for asking questions about these things.
Police shoot unarmed civilians for the crime of being differently colored.
Trans people tell other trans people they aren’t really trans because they don’t suffer enough extra bullshit on top of the social suffering they already go through.
And disabled, queer people of color die at a higher rate than any other group, no matter how finely divided. They have a higher rate of homelessness than any other group. Their lives are shit, by any definition.

No one is not guilty of some bullshit unless they’re the most victimized people possible to find. That’s going to cause some fucking polarization.

The only case of divide in recent popular opinion has been about this actress, Yalitza Aparicio, who played a housemaid in the movie "Roma"... mostly about how shes a "pinche india" that is all over important magazines covers, starring in shampoo commercials and nominated for important awards... which is a mix between proffessional envy of her success and outright racist hatred.

The thing is, the opinions that defend her, and the opinions that are against her are of zero absolute consequences... its like literally the importance of a youtube video comments feud. There are no jobs lost, no boycotting, no breaking of friendships over it... its like picking a sports team and supporting it, and opposing the other teams.

Theres other cultural differences overall... here media isnt something you participate in, youre merely a consumer, and you either like it or shut up about it, theres no discussion... not because its prohibited but because entertainment is just what it is, entertainment and it doesnt bleed over to politics nor the other way around.

And im not even saying this is a good or a bad thing it just is, but considering the list you offered:

-The only real ethnic divide we have is "urban mexican" and "indigena"... which in fact ontologically is just a matter of degree, since all mexicans are of mixed race, were mostly a mix between spaniard and native, or euro and native... so even if some of us hate the more pure-blood natives it would seem more an economic discrimination than based on race.

-Which brings me to the next point... were so capitalistic that as long as youre middle class and above you wont suffer discrimination for your race or sexual orientation or beliefs... were cosmopolitan and predatory like that, only the poor and the vulnerable dont get to deviate.

Who knows? Maybe all the petty public squabbling is a sign of a healthy democratic and politically involved citizenry... or at least healthier than the apathetic silence we have here... for one, we spent so much time under a single party that commited electoral fraud for so long that discussion seemed pointless... journalists here dont get bodyslammed, they just get killed and buried at unmarked fosas... so maybe dissidents here are accustomed to either be ignored or killed.

Maybe this public rallying is some sort of a "revenge of the opressed" sort of thing?

I think you make some useful contrasts here. It is definitely true that for the most part, Mexico has it worse if you’re in the outgroups, for instance. Journalists don’t get killed in the USA all that often that I know of. The political process is infamously corrupt (although I believe that is changing now?) and there is rarely much that resembles hope if you’re one of the downtrodden. Not just Mexico either — my Filipino friends have a similar description, and I know Indonesia and a lot of South America is looking pretty bad from the outside.



I think you’re kind of right about it being a revenge of the oppressed, and that you are onto something about it being a healthy sign. But I don’t think it’s fully healthy, exactly. I think instead it’s a sign of a working cultural immune system: these people being beaten down feel empowered enough to fight back, they aren’t tied to the ground by despair. The immune system is finding these bad memes tangled in the core values of America as interpreted by the oppressed, and eliminating them (or at least dragging them, gruesome and malformed, into the light of day).

That hopefulness is a big thing, when I was first coming to terms with being trans I didn’t even pretend there would be a day when not going stealth would be an option for me. I lived in the assumption I’d need to hide myself from everyone forever. Now, I don’t know if I’ll see that day where I’m free to be me openly, but I know it’s /possible/ it can come to pass, and that /I personally/ am empowered to in some small way /force/ that future to happen.

(I need to give specific thanks again to QGP here: she was the one who finally snapped me out of that sort of learned helplessness, by showing me change in action.)

So you’re seeing people surrounded by badness, but actually /seeing the end of the tunnel/, not just a light, there’s fucking trees and squirrels and shit out there! We’re nearly there! We just need to push on a bit further!

And when other people, gross slimy gremlins, start trying to drag them away from that into the maintenance tunnels on the sides of the track, of course they’ll fight back. Maybe they’ll throw punches at each other in the process, someone got a bit too much crud on them and smells like the rotten things surrounding them or maybe their bite is contagious, pick the metaphor however you see fit! But we see that bright future and by fucking god we want it, we’ve earned it, we’ll inch our bones across that threshold even if we have to leave the rest of our bodies behind.

Very insightful points, thanks for that.
“I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.”

“Ever watch that famous war movie? That’s how it’ll be.”
“Which one?”
“The one where everybody dies.”
— Blood Standard, Laird Barron

Remember the fall of Yin Tu.