Author Topic: Am I Still a Discordian?  (Read 1834 times)

Norman

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Am I Still a Discordian?
« on: July 05, 2019, 02:47:12 pm »
By now, some know who I am, some don't. For those of you who do, thanks for not giving me the boot!  (Yet)

In the past 6 years or so of exile, I have kept up with the whole Discordian thing.  I read the Principia from time to time, I continue to exist as some incarnation of RWHN on the Twitters (and other corners), but mainly, there' the ole space between the ears...

What instantly drew me to Discordia when I first read the PD, what solidified it, was The Golden Secret https://principiadiscordia.com/book/81.php

As an atheist, as a man of science, as a person who is able to think for himself and marvel at all of the needless, complicated bullshit created by humanity, it was one of those "yeah, preach it!" moments when I read that bit.  And that bit is strong, solid philosophy.  Joining this community for the 8 or so years I was here, was also a revelation, to commune with likewise thinking spags, especially since we all thought so differently!  And so it has been interesting on the other side of being away from this community.

So Am I Still a Discordian?  Undoubtedly Yes.  Because it's a switch you can't turn off, once switched on.  You can't unsee and unthink...and now in 2019, The Curse of Greyface seems to be particularly strong, as an avatar for Greyface occupies the White House.  And the throngs of the unthinking devotees slavishly clinging on to his every nonsensical, uneducated utterance.  And the kicker is that the morons on the Left don't seem to hate him enough, while they obsess over making sure the most "woke" candidate faces him in 2020, when, Jesus, the fucking DNC Office Manager would be an improvement over Drumpf!  Ah, but I digress...what am I talking about here...oh right, Am I Still Discordian?

Yes, but does it matter?  Probably not.  Everything is uber-fucked right now.  Probably the most coherent, spot-on thing Trump has ever uttered was when he said back in 2016 that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and get away with it. He knew he was right.  And I think then, it was under-appreciated how prophetic that statement would be to where we are now. 

So, I guess now, my Discordianism is more about self-preservation than trying to address The Machine and The System. 
I just want to make it out alive with a smile on my face!

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2019, 03:24:37 pm »
as a person who is able to think for himself
Is it just me, or do people who tout their capacity to think for themselves usually just turn out to be the type to reject any external evidence that contradicts their internally developed preconceptions?
"When I say 'engineering', I have unreasonable expectations.  It must - as you know - look good in PADS AND give you plenty of help ducking and weaving in meetings.  But it must also, at some distant point in time, function.  If it does not, then you must accept that you are not in fact an engineer but instead an MBA.  Hang your head in SHAME, sinner!"

TastyCle

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2019, 03:37:03 pm »
as a person who is able to think for himself
Is it just me, or do people who tout their capacity to think for themselves usually just turn out to be the type to reject any external evidence that contradicts their internally developed preconceptions?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eristic
Very painful to get rid of, why even bother.

The Johnny

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2019, 03:56:03 pm »
So, I guess now, my Discordianism is more about self-preservation than trying to address The Machine and The System. 
I just want to make it out alive with a smile on my face!

Hasn't Discordia always been just a way to save face towards yourself, to pretend you've been something more than a shill for the War on Drugs? It doesn't seem you've ever been worried about "the machine" nor "the system", and youve always been an opportunistic slime bag, a dog dancing to get his bacon.

If im recalling things wrongly, everyone and anyone feel free to correct me, for I really envy Roger's vindictive memory that burns like a thousand suns, and personally lack that capacity.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Norman

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2019, 04:58:48 pm »
So, I guess now, my Discordianism is more about self-preservation than trying to address The Machine and The System. 
I just want to make it out alive with a smile on my face!

Hasn't Discordia always been just a way to save face towards yourself, to pretend you've been something more than a shill for the War on Drugs? It doesn't seem you've ever been worried about "the machine" nor "the system", and youve always been an opportunistic slime bag, a dog dancing to get his bacon.

If im recalling things wrongly, everyone and anyone feel free to correct me, for I really envy Roger's vindictive memory that burns like a thousand suns, and personally lack that capacity.

You joined in 2009, I joined in 2005.  I was here for a good 8 years, it was only in the last couple that things fell apart due to my, admittedly rather forward facing (brutally argumentative even), philosophy around drugs.  I contributed quite a bit around here before things fell apart, which if people are being honest, will recognize.  And I've even seen from time to time someone bump an old rant of mine and lament about how I used to be better.  So the answer to your question is no. 

But there are all kinds of threads started in Think For Yourself, Schmuck you can review.  That sub-forum itself was created out of the ashes of a separate board that I was the admin for, that was where a lot of TFY,S content was cultivated.  I get people's perceptions of me because of my stance on drugs, but that doesn't define me who I am as a person, nor as a Discordian.  I mean, I could go into how my stance on drugs is not incompatible with Discordianism (and to be clear, I am not implicitly arguing that anyone who believes the opposite of what I believe is by default not-Discordian, because that is obviously not true) , but to borrow an earlier phrase, I won't bore you with the details that you won't even consider. 

The reality is that the licit and illicit drug industries are, at least in my mind, part of The Machine, because for some, they can hold people back, limit their pathways, but then the industries do little to nothing to help out.  And when it boils right down to it, my problems with drugs have been less about the drugs themselves, but how rich white guys market and promote them to afflict the less powerful.  But I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. 

Anyway, again, the answer to your question is no. 

Norman

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2019, 04:59:22 pm »
as a person who is able to think for himself
Is it just me, or do people who tout their capacity to think for themselves usually just turn out to be the type to reject any external evidence that contradicts their internally developed preconceptions?

Show me a human that doesn't do that. 

Norman

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2019, 05:11:40 pm »
Let me further expound upon my reply to Johnny.  To simply say, the fatal mistake I made in my last couple of years here before I was shown the door, was that I willingly pigeonholed myself to the Anti-Drug Warrior trope.  I was the same person in 2013 that I was in 2005, and in the later years when we created the BIP, when I ran the BIP board and wiki, etc.  But, I am the sort of person who is a) admittedly ego-centric and b) feeds off of perceived bullying.  My perception at the time was, "Well, shit, they're all coming after me, time to strap in AND GO!" 

So invested heavily, and exclusively, into that persona.  All of the bits of me that were also totally into the BIP/TFY,S stuff was still completely there, but I cordoned it off, and said, "Okay, I'm the villain now, so let's be the villain!!!" 

To be clear, this is 100% my fault, and I own how I behaved and reacted, etc. 

Do I still believe everything I believed when I left in 2013?  Yes, but that includes all the actual Discordia stuff I stopped talking about in 2011 or so.  But also, I've had a lot of experiences since 2013, where, you know my perspectives and priorities are just different.  I ran the unsuccessful anti-pot legalization campaign in 2016.  (Lost by less than 4,000 fucking votes!)  Dude, when you lose a campaign by less than .05%, that shit keeps you up at night for awhile, and then it just gets to the point, "I'm done!".  "I'm pushing away from the table, I'm too old for this shit." 

I still care, but I don't care, you know?  I did my piece, it is what it is now, it's someone else's problem.  I'm just gonna do my job, retire, and go be a fat 60 year old on a beach somewhere.  Because, fuck, THAT'S DISCORDIAN RIGHT THERE BUB!


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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2019, 05:52:50 pm »
as a person who is able to think for himself
Is it just me, or do people who tout their capacity to think for themselves usually just turn out to be the type to reject any external evidence that contradicts their internally developed preconceptions?

Show me a human that doesn't do that.
Sure, there's me.  If I were to brag about being able to think for myself, it would just make me look stupider when I was inevitably wrong about something.

And scientists revisit their preconceptions in the face of evidence all the time.  They're not perfect about it, of course, but they have to admit they're wrong sometimes, or technological progress would have come to a dead standstill.
"When I say 'engineering', I have unreasonable expectations.  It must - as you know - look good in PADS AND give you plenty of help ducking and weaving in meetings.  But it must also, at some distant point in time, function.  If it does not, then you must accept that you are not in fact an engineer but instead an MBA.  Hang your head in SHAME, sinner!"

Norman

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2019, 06:29:18 pm »
Thinking for yourself, and being wrong, are not mutually exclusive.

Norman

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2019, 06:32:39 pm »
To further, my statement of "thinking for myself" was not meant to be taken as "I am always right."

We all have different reality grids. 

The Johnny

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2019, 03:25:41 am »

Since you put some effort and time into your response I'll reply in kind.

So first, to answer your question: Yes, you are a "discordian", but who isn't? It's not even a rhetorical question, feel free to answer. Maybe I've been negligent on my eristic studies, but I've defaulted to the notion that it's merely a matter of self-identification with the label. It's not even about what you contribute to the board or discordia in general, and while Im not about to go thread diving, I do believe you.

I think that everyone hated your guts for your stance on drugs not as a matter of Discordia, but as human beings, I can't speak for others, but thats how I experienced it.

And while I totally recognize that stuff like LSD was literally created by the CIA for interrogation and mind-control objectives... that pot has on the very long run some horrible side effects like deep depression and anxiety issues... that psychiatric medication ruins your liver and endocrine system, etc etc etc I still do firmly believe that people should have a right to choose.

But you see, that issue about personal choice is not even my problem with it, you see, and in this manner youre just a naive and egocentric middle class white american... I really dont care about your personal vendetta against other similarly white but richer men than yourself.

What I care about is the social consequences, beyond your countries borders, of the prohibitionist policies you promote(d)... do you know what it is to live with Drug Cartels in your country? Of course you dont, as I mentioned before, youre just another honky privileged boy - but practically all of Latin America, has in the past or is currently dealing with it.

By promoting prohibition, you are promoting a black market, and by promoting a black market you are promoting indirectly the death of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people.

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2019, 07:53:40 pm »
So, I guess now, my Discordianism is more about self-preservation than trying to address The Machine and The System. 
I just want to make it out alive with a smile on my face!

Hasn't Discordia always been just a way to save face towards yourself, to pretend you've been something more than a shill for the War on Drugs? It doesn't seem you've ever been worried about "the machine" nor "the system", and youve always been an opportunistic slime bag, a dog dancing to get his bacon.

If im recalling things wrongly, everyone and anyone feel free to correct me, for I really envy Roger's vindictive memory that burns like a thousand suns, and personally lack that capacity.

I think people tend to hyperfocus on his beliefs about drugs.  RWHN has a diverse array of opinions, I am sure his beliefs about drugs aren't the only areas where he's a bit of an authoritarian dickbag but that doesn't mean he isn't a friend of liberty, fun, and chaos in all sorts of other areas.

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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2019, 04:58:11 am »
So, I guess now, my Discordianism is more about self-preservation than trying to address The Machine and The System. 
I just want to make it out alive with a smile on my face!

Hasn't Discordia always been just a way to save face towards yourself, to pretend you've been something more than a shill for the War on Drugs? It doesn't seem you've ever been worried about "the machine" nor "the system", and youve always been an opportunistic slime bag, a dog dancing to get his bacon.

If im recalling things wrongly, everyone and anyone feel free to correct me, for I really envy Roger's vindictive memory that burns like a thousand suns, and personally lack that capacity.

He started out okay...But then he got bit by the funding bug a few years later and started babbling about how marijuana leads to krokodil (this is an exaggeration, but not by much) and how throwing a 19 year old into prison for 26 years for a quarter pound of ditch weed was justifiable.

He basically became his job.  That happens to lots of people.  I have heard it referred to as "salesman's disease" or "Cutco casualty."  AKA "company man."
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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2019, 05:00:23 am »

The reality is that the licit and illicit drug industries are, at least in my mind, part of The Machine, because for some, they can hold people back, limit their pathways, but then the industries do little to nothing to help out.

You were never wrong about that part.

But the fact is, a prohibitionist is an authoritarian.
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Re: Am I Still a Discordian?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2019, 08:26:59 am »
Everything is uber-fucked right now.

You had a hand in it being that way, greasing the wheels of the school to prison pipeline. It's just slavery with extra steps, you foolish tool.

Now that drugs are being decriminalized, what do you know? The most transparently bullshit immigration policy ever is in place so the private prison/jail/concentration camp industry can keep making that money. The private prison industry already is on the record in an annual report about 20 years ago saying they would do exactly this.

How do you redeem yourself after working most of your adult life for the world's largest profit-driven forced labor system?

 :nope:
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