Help me find The Mummu :)

Started by HappyMoo, August 28, 2019, 03:00:33 PM

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HappyMoo

Sorry I'm a noob here, so forgive me if this isn't the right area ;)

So for an art/design project, I need to create some kind of representation of Mummu/Mumu, but even after countless hours of searching, I cannot find an ancient representation of him -- nothing on tablets or in poems or sculptures or anything.
Mummu almost aways means something like "that from which things emerge from chaos".  It's by Mummu that nonexistent things are birthed into our reality from the abyss.  This is why Mummu remains with us today in language (.e., Mu=Ma=mother, material, etc.)

There are three main takes on Mummu.
1. As part of the primordian creation trinity (Mummu, Abzu, Tiamat). Abzu and Tiamat were of the fresh water and saltware while many understood Mummu as being a fog that floated above both.  Mummu was kinda a craftsman/wise guru guy/advisor of the three.  When the new generation of kids gods got to nutty, Tiamat was killed and Abzu and Mummu got knocked down for some eternal sleepy time while Marduk took the thrown.

2. Mummu was also seen as somewhat of a power and a label and not necessarily as a being.  In many places, god were referred to as Mummu-Tiamat, Mummu-Marduk, Mummu-Ea which hinted that they somewhat possessed the Mummu power.  If you worse the Mummu-brand designer jeans, you would get the power of Mummu to do cool stuff and rain down hurt on your enemies.

3. Mummu, in the story of Zu (which means wisdom) also described the process by which an arrow left the rump of an animal and returned to it's bow.  The feathers of the arrow turned back into a bird and the entrails of the animal returned to the animal.  Mummu, in a sense, was the returning to the earlier state from which things originated.
Lastly, due to creative writers making tall tales, Mummu is related to Lemuria....lots of stuff here but nearly unimportant.

Sooooo.....what am I looking for?
I'm trying to find some signs/symbols/archetypes/designs/depictions, etc. that might somehow represent Mummu.  The best I have is the old and tired pointy chaos symbol and or one of the names of Marduk symbol (something like #39, don't remember the number).  Neither actually shows Mummu or describes much about it.

Any thoughts? :)




Cain

I'm not sure if there is a visual representation of Mummu.

Sumerian and Babylonian mythology isn't exactly an area of expertise, but my understanding is that one of the meanings of Mummu is akin to the Greek logos, representing knowledge and nous, as opposed to the more elemental approach with Tiamat and Apsû.

As such, if there is a visual representation, it might be that of Babylonian writing, the alphabet itself.

The Wizard Joseph

The KLF burned cash and other modern trappings as a sort of sacrifice to Mumu. You might use a modern symbol containing cash, fire, and smoke. That way you keep a sort of triune theme. I am not aware of any more ancient symbols for Mumu, but given its nature postmodern symbolism might work just as well. Mumu is both Chaos and Aftermath, the great transition, the forger and destroyer alike.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

The Wizard Joseph

You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Doktor Howl

I was under the impression that Mummu was just an aspect of various deities.
Molon Lube

The Wizard Joseph

Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 04:27:22 PM
I was under the impression that Mummu was just an aspect of various deities.

Naw Mummu appears to be a separate primordial diety, but its attributes are often appended to other dieties as honorifics of a sort. I just started diving for more info though. Noob got me going.

There's heavy water symbolism as well as a semse of a body, body of water, knowledge, corporeal being... Very interesting stuff.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Doktor Howl

Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Molon Lube

The Wizard Joseph

You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

HappyMoo

Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 04:45:21 PM
Found Mummu on the first try.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummu

That's a representation of Enki/Ea -- both have a strong connection to Mummu...and the connection varies a bit over time (i.e., they helped kill Mummu, they became empowered by Mummu, etc.), but Enki is very distinct from Mummu.

The name Enki can be broken down easily

En = An = God/Lord
Ki = Earth

So he's kinda a god of earthly things.  He has an attachment to water, but not like his Daddy Abzu who was pretty much the formless primordial god of the fresh waters from deep inside the earth.

hooplala

Quote from: HappyMoo on August 28, 2019, 08:22:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 04:45:21 PM
Found Mummu on the first try.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummu

That's a representation of Enki/Ea -- both have a strong connection to Mummu...and the connection varies a bit over time (i.e., they helped kill Mummu, they became empowered by Mummu, etc.), but Enki is very distinct from Mummu.

The name Enki can be broken down easily

En = An = God/Lord
Ki = Earth

So he's kinda a god of earthly things.  He has an attachment to water, but not like his Daddy Abzu who was pretty much the formless primordial god of the fresh waters from deep inside the earth.

You seem to know a lot about what you're looking for, for someone who came here looking for answers.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

HappyMoo

Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2019, 03:12:01 PM
Sumerian and Babylonian mythology isn't exactly an area of expertise, but my understanding is that one of the meanings of Mummu is akin to the Greek logos, representing knowledge and nous, as opposed to the more elemental approach with Tiamat and Apsû.

As such, if there is a visual representation, it might be that of Babylonian writing, the alphabet itself.



This is about as close as I could come to anything -- it's one of the 50 names of Marduk and this one is Mummu-Marduk.  Unfortunately the design isn't cool enough to lend itself to much of anything other than a death metal cd cover lol.

But yes, my growing understanding is that while Mummu is a primordial god (one of the trinity), he's presence appears more as a power one can behold that an actual physical presence.  That's kinda tough to depict graphically :)

hooplala

It's called Marmaduke. It's a massive dog which comically believes itself to be tiny.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

HappyMoo

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 28, 2019, 04:14:55 PM
Mumu is both Chaos and Aftermath, the great transition, the forger and destroyer alike.

I have considered some kind of "recycling" vibe in my depiction.  It sounds much like Shiva, and honestly considering that he predates Shiva, it wouldn't surprise me that they share the same source mythologies long lost in history.

HappyMoo

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 28, 2019, 04:37:21 PM
Naw Mummu appears to be a separate primordial diety, but its attributes are often appended to other dieties as honorifics of a sort. I just started diving for more info though. Noob got me going.

There's heavy water symbolism as well as a semse of a body, body of water, knowledge, corporeal being... Very interesting stuff.

You're absolutely right.  I didn't appreciate until recently the dual nature of Mummu as both a being and as an attribute/power one could possess/merge with.  Mummu is the Power of Grayskull for Prince Adam lol