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Also, i dont think discordia attracts any more sociopaths than say, atheism or satanism.

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Immunity to Memes

Started by Cramulus, December 17, 2019, 02:13:19 PM

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Cramulus

as a small point of order, I think the usage of "memes" ITT refers to image macros, rather than ideas in general

altered

That is how I meant it.

That said, I feel like an immune response is a better metaphor than video game immunity. (There's a closer analogy: infection, identification, elimination, in the biological senses fit with my immune response method.)
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

Faust

I haven't seen a meme since nuking facebook and reddit, granted the downsides are a Cask of Amontillado fomo.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

The Johnny


PREVENTION

As long as you can get under a person's skin and their emotions, thru slogans and visuals, that person will be able to be "suggested". Added to that: if you know what a person wants unconsciously, you can play with their desire like a dog playing with a ragdoll.

The grand solution to memetic infection is being well versed in reading and writing. Because when you know how to write, you know how and why arguments are constructed, their strenghts and flaws. And when you know how to read and can distinguish trustworthy sources such as books, you have the tools to research what is good and what is just spinning reality. In summary, being skilled in honest rhetoric.

TREATMENT

BTW, an unquantifiable part of psychotherapy is hunting down parasitic ideas... as standard procedure, you always incite them to talk talk talk, and at some point what theyre saying is repetition of whats been previously said... they have repeated a given statement as repetition as an argument or a statement about reality... when that happens, you stop them for a moment and ask them "Who usually says that?" or "Why do you think that is true?".

Sometimes the parasitic idea is their own, but many times it was said by their parents, by their friends, by their lover, or by the news... when you can hunt down the origin of the idea, you find its nest... and even tho its not our job to pull a flamethrower on that shit, the patient itself may or may not do that himself, but at least now that they behold the disgusting nest will probably start relating to it in a different way.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Cramulus on December 17, 2019, 08:58:49 PM
as a small point of order, I think the usage of "memes" ITT refers to image macros, rather than ideas in general

Well, those are the ones we notice.
Molon Lube

Frontside Back

How about unpolitical memes? Ones that say something like "I always eat my toenails while showering" and then somebody shares it, because "this is so me". Usually it's something abut depression, anxiety or OCD, things that are good to bring to the public view, and difficult to handle or explain, without anecdotes or humor memes provide.

Still, I feel like there's something creepy in the part person goes "this is so me" and presses the share button. Like it digs the mental illness deeper into their identity. Or maybe it helps them express the way they feel bad, making them feel better. I wouldn't know, I'm not into browsing depression memes.
"I want to be the Borg but I want to do it alone."

The Johnny

Quote from: Frontside Back on December 19, 2019, 02:43:02 PM
How about unpolitical memes? Ones that say something like "I always eat my toenails while showering" and then somebody shares it, because "this is so me". Usually it's something abut depression, anxiety or OCD, things that are good to bring to the public view, and difficult to handle or explain, without anecdotes or humor memes provide.

Still, I feel like there's something creepy in the part person goes "this is so me" and presses the share button. Like it digs the mental illness deeper into their identity. Or maybe it helps them express the way they feel bad, making them feel better. I wouldn't know, I'm not into browsing depression memes.

It's a type of XXIst century dadaism of normie centrists.

Then the depression memes I'm on the fence... like on one hand it allows people to express their sentiments, on the other hand its an unhealthy release valve instead of getting treatment or actually doing something about their lives.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

rong



if one were sufficiently stupid, then one would become "immune" to memes

"a real smart feller, he felt smart"

Cramulus

in a discordian society group, saw this "anti sjw" meme which is intended to innoculate against a particular style of left wing memes.




Should I explain it? I feel like you guys probably understand it - in a facebook comment, you can tag groups. So there are groups whose names function as retorts. So tagging one of these groups is a form of dismissal, an "I'm not affected by this" sentiment.

putting on my analysis hat for a second --

What works about this meme is that it frames the enemy's sentiment not as a genuine original thought, but as a default response picked off a menu of standard responses. It seems to say "you're not actually clever, you're just quoting clever people".





"Immunity to memes"
--------whose memes?

The Johnny


That's the "strawman" vaccine so to speak.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

rong

the memes that look like memes are the least effective

the dangerous memes are the ones that don't look like memes at all
"a real smart feller, he felt smart"

The Johnny


You know what, you can split me off to a new thread if its annoying or considered derailing, but even tho meme is a good colloquial term to use, i feel like its a misleading and obfuscating theoretical term.

Isnt it more precise to call them ideological representations? The word "meme" is tainted by pseudo-biological babble i would argue. Like what is this bs about "memes residing physically in the brain".
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Cramulus

Quote from: The Johnny on December 21, 2019, 06:34:30 AM

You know what, you can split me off to a new thread if its annoying or considered derailing, but even tho meme is a good colloquial term to use, i feel like its a misleading and obfuscating theoretical term.

Isnt it more precise to call them ideological representations? The word "meme" is tainted by pseudo-biological babble i would argue. Like what is this bs about "memes residing physically in the brain".

are you asking about image macros? or the term Dawkins coined, "units of cultural inheritance"?

if you mean the unit of cultural inheritance, the definition is basically just "something that can be transmitted", something repeatable.. it doesn't necessarily have to have any ideology. Like, the color blue probably counts as a meme--many cultures don't have a word for it, or they "see" blue as a shade of green.

and of course it resides in your brain somewhere. But like a memory, it's hard to point to.

The Johnny


Well yeah, Dawkins definition... so i guess it can be whatever can be communicated/received, intentionally or not, which is pretty much anything. As i said, i dont like the term, but i guess youre framing the discussion around image macros which is a different scope?

Ill give the entire thread a re-read, im not sure if im the only one that was confused btw.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Cramulus

Because I was just thumbing through it, I want to add a few points from the Chaos Marxism Primer:


  • 76. Metaphorical, narrative language can help people understand real although intangible forces better than intellectual jargon.
  • 77. An effective political or advertising slogan has all the same characteristics of a meditative mantra.
  • 78. The most effective advertising does not say "Brand X has qualities Y and Z"; instead, it presents a meme which associates X with Y and Z and leaves it up to the recipients to connect the dots. All the most virally infective memes require that the readers/viewers/listeners do some work to make some sense of what they are given – they are "pull" rather than "push" marketing.
  • 81. If you're not being attacked, you won't be supported.
  • 84. A meme will spread if it fills a niche in the materially existing noosphere.