Author Topic: Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in  (Read 72101 times)

Fujikoma

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Re: Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #555 on: November 03, 2020, 06:42:21 pm »
I bet ten bucks this ends in a hug.

altered

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #556 on: November 03, 2020, 07:00:58 pm »
TWJ, I linked a Wikipedia article there because there isn't exactly a paper that covers standard terminology for this stuff. Or at least, if there is, it's old and moldy and gnawed by rats and I wouldn't be able to find it.

And if you note the wording, I never claimed to not be a layperson -- just not one who's hung up on ordinary stuff. (That said, I do in fact know more than the average person on this and many other subjects. Don't let me try to diagnose someone or develop a treatment for them, but I know, say, science-communicator levels. We've spoken enough that I think you're aware of that being true.)

This /specific/ thing is fearmongering. Syncytia are diagnostic for diseases but have almost no relationship to how dangerous or scary a disease /is/. They rarely have any causal relationship to symptoms. They are almost /purely/ a diagnostic criterion. It sounds scary but it affects /nothing/.

Emphasizing that COVID is the modern era's Black Death is not fearmongering. I admit that I was wrong about that -- check the front of the thread, I said some dumb shit there.

But syncytia aren't weird. They aren't scary. The average person pre-COVID probably had some floating around their system at any given time. Even now at least some people probably have some holdovers from past illnesses. Syncytia aren't inherently dangerous, they're just funky. People have this idea from bad sci-fi movie graphical renders that if any cell changes in shape it's like the T-virus in Resident Evil or some shit. That's what I want to stop, because if people start also connecting the idea of syncytia to COVID, then you have people responding to totally harmless shit as if it's COVID tier. I don't think there's ever going back to normal after this, but if there is, it would suck to lose it again simply because some dipshit starts a meme about literally just the regular old goddamn common cold.

Am I making sense now?
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The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #557 on: November 04, 2020, 06:05:16 am »
*ahem*

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lung-damage-found-covid-dead-000255877.html

Quote
The findings indicate that COVID-19 is not simply a disease caused by the death of virus-infected cells, but is likely the consequence of these abnormal cells persisting for long periods inside the lungs," said Mauro Giacca, a professor at King’s College London who co-led the work...

...Growing evidence from around the world suggests that a small proportion of people who have had COVID-19 and recovered from their initial infection can experience a range of ongoing symptoms including fatigue, brain fog and shortness of breath. The condition is often called "long COVID".

Giacca said almost 90% of the 41 patients had several characteristics unique to COVID-19 compared to other forms of pneumonia.

One was that patients had extensive blood clotting of the lung arteries and veins. Another was that some lung cells were abnormally large and had many nuclei - a result of the fusion of different cells into single large cells in a process known as syncytia.

The research, published in the journal Lancet eBioMedicine, also found the virus itself was still present in many types of cells.

"The presence of these infected cells can cause the major structural changes observed in lungs, which can persist for several weeks or months and could eventually explain 'long COVID'," Giacca said.

Seems non lay persons are thinking it's pretty darn causal to the disease.
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Fujikoma

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Re: Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #558 on: November 04, 2020, 06:44:51 am »
Fuckin' magnets, how do they work?

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #559 on: November 04, 2020, 07:14:48 am »
John Oliver doing a recap of Trump on COVID released Nov 2 2020, for posterity, such as there may be posterity.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IuVo4fnpLC8

Fucking pens...
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
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Doktor Howl

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Re: Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #560 on: November 05, 2020, 04:25:08 pm »
I bet ten bucks this ends in a hug.

Fuck off.
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The Wizard Joseph

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You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #562 on: November 07, 2020, 03:51:58 pm »
Not going to bother throwing up links because they are plentiful. Just a note that Denmark found a unique spike mutation that has developed in minks and is linked to hundreds of human cases. Due to the mink link Denmark is culling pretty much their entire mink population.

Not just zoonotic, but profoundly diverse as such it seems. Just imagine trying to tell folks to cull their pets or worse imagine a bovine or porcine strain that forced a mass food animal cull. We're not going to cure shit, as I feared from the beginning, and I just read an article on a 5 year old asymptomatic girl that started vomiting and sleeping too much with no other symptoms who died in 15 hrs of a coV2 positive test. We sometimes don't even know how it kills exactly or why it's so chaotic about symptom presentation. There will be no magical, safe RNA pan-vaccine. Not trying to doom and gloom or "fearmonger" or whatever. Them's just the facts.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Faust

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #563 on: November 07, 2020, 06:11:28 pm »
We know how it kills, primarily respitory failure, with secondary's closely linked to the same way the flu kills the elderly:

In people with underlying conditions it can cause kidney or other failure from dehydration. Unless you have a link I am doubtful that covid was the primary cause of a five year old dying especially if she asymptomatic.
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The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #564 on: November 07, 2020, 08:23:46 pm »
We know how it kills, primarily respitory failure, with secondary's closely linked to the same way the flu kills the elderly:

In people with underlying conditions it can cause kidney or other failure from dehydration. Unless you have a link I am doubtful that covid was the primary cause of a five year old dying especially if she asymptomatic.

Blood clots and fatal hypoxia resulting in cardiac arrest and organ failure are well reported in folks of all ages with zero respiratory symptoms. SOME just have CNS failure so sudden that they're dead before they fall. The cause is at this time unknown. It is by no means a strictly respiratory disease that is only otherwise fatal with preexisting conditions.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

altered

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #565 on: November 07, 2020, 09:13:00 pm »
We know how it kills, primarily respitory failure, with secondary's closely linked to the same way the flu kills the elderly:

In people with underlying conditions it can cause kidney or other failure from dehydration. Unless you have a link I am doubtful that covid was the primary cause of a five year old dying especially if she asymptomatic.

Blood clots and fatal hypoxia resulting in cardiac arrest and organ failure are well reported in folks of all ages with zero respiratory symptoms. SOME just have CNS failure so sudden that they're dead before they fall. The cause is at this time unknown. It is by no means a strictly respiratory disease that is only otherwise fatal with preexisting conditions.

100% correct.

Not sarcasm, it just is. Symptoms have been all over the board, at least in part due to the biochemical changes it causes, and the current common presentation is "feel a little funky but otherwise fine for a bit under two weeks, decline to a terrible death over the course of a week /with/ medical intervention". We do know some of the major mechanisms, but not enough of them to create a standard aside from symptomatic care. Work is ongoing there, and it's promising, but it's currently insufficient.
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The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #566 on: November 08, 2020, 12:13:44 am »
Here is that link Faust.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/health/texas-kindergarten-student-died-covid-complications-healthy-before-death/%3famp=true

Quote

White said she found her daughter unresponsive — but still breathing — in bed the following morning. Tagan died later that day after her parents called 911 for help.

"My daughter was perfectly healthy. Perfectly healthy. There's no way that should have happened," White said.

Tagan's father, Quincy Drone, told KAMR that they felt Tagan "could have been saved."

"This doctor told us that our child would be fine, and our child didn’t even make it 24 hours," he said. "She died within the next 15 hours."


There was a different case entirely back in April in Michigan. Also a 5 year old black girl. She died of uncontrolable meningitis and was on a respirator for 2 weeks, but it was an induced coma IIRC. Severe meningitis is SO PAINFUL that euthanasia or induced coma may be the only humane treatment options. I'll look that link up too if you insist.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

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Faust

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #567 on: November 08, 2020, 12:35:44 am »
No, thank you for posting the link, it was specifically because you said she was asymptomatic, if she had exhaustion there is possibility of temperature or other organ issues there.

Barring Auto immune issues, the majority of deaths under 50 years of age we've worked with (pool of about 1k) have fallen into the following:
Asthema / CF / Other respitory issues (associated with the lung symtoms)
Existing Arrythmia or heart conditions (associated with exhaustion, liver or kideny issues)
Liver failure (associated with dehydration from fever, but posssibly also painkiller abuse)

I cant speculate on what could have caused the girls death if it was on the blood side, but the fatigue generally comes with a temperature which sounds harmless enough but it kills a lot of kids every year especially if it comes on quickly in the night.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 12:39:05 am by Faust »
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The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #568 on: November 08, 2020, 01:42:52 am »
No, thank you for posting the link, it was specifically because you said she was asymptomatic, if she had exhaustion there is possibility of temperature or other organ issues there.

Barring Auto immune issues, the majority of deaths under 50 years of age we've worked with (pool of about 1k) have fallen into the following:
Asthema / CF / Other respitory issues (associated with the lung symtoms)
Existing Arrythmia or heart conditions (associated with exhaustion, liver or kideny issues)
Liver failure (associated with dehydration from fever, but posssibly also painkiller abuse)

I cant speculate on what could have caused the girls death if it was on the blood side, but the fatigue generally comes with a temperature which sounds harmless enough but it kills a lot of kids every year especially if it comes on quickly in the night.

Temp is certainly possible. COVID is known to cause fever delerium inducement at shocking speed and duration lacking treatment. Temp spike might have hit hard enough to kill her of shock at such a young age and by the time they're trying to figure it out she's cold again.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #569 on: November 08, 2020, 02:45:14 am »
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/nasal-spray-prevents-covid-19-infections-204611720.html

Quote
Columbia University researchers have developed a nasal spray that has successfully prevented COVID-19 infections in tests with ferrets as well as a 3D model of human lungs.

The lipopeptide (that is, a lipid and peptide combination) prevents the coronavirus from fusing with a target cell’s membrane by blocking a key protein from adopting a necessary shape. It should work immediately and last for at least 24 hours. It’s also affordable, lasts a long time, and doesn’t need refrigeration.

A bit of bright news indeed! I shit you not I was discussing this essential methodology with several medical practitioners from the hospital I used to work for using an ace2 blocker called lisinopril, but this method sounds better. Still need eye protection and a mouth cover would be wise, but any weapon is welcome in this VERY long term fight going forward.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl