Author Topic: This question is "for the brightest"  (Read 847 times)

DrStrangechao

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This question is "for the brightest"
« on: May 22, 2020, 06:23:19 pm »
Greetings!

I'll make the grand leap of faith and assume there are some classical/Greek mythology aficionados on this site who may be willing to assist this layperson with the story of the Golden Apple of Eris.

I've read a few different interpretations/translations of the inscription:
"to the prettiest"
"to the most beautiful"
"to the fairest"

On the surface these may be seen as minor linguistic and conceptual deviations, however I question if the last interpretation may be the most "correct" and has different meaning than the red-herring meaning of an aesthetic beauty.  Forgive me for not having the time, patience, energy, etc. to start learning Ancient Greek. I'm leaning hard on those smarter and more resourceful.
If those three other goddesses had seen the word "fair" in terms of "just," perhaps they would have seen past their own vanity and simply given it back to the one who truly was/is the fairest (and avoided that whole war thing).  Of course you Discordians know to whom I refer ;)
 
And on that note, where the fuck *is* the apple? 

 
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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 06:37:59 pm »
Not sure, but what I AM sure of is that it doesn't matter.

There is nothing "just" about Eris.  She is a crone wading knee-deep in blood, smirking because she taught those other gods BUT GOOD for leaving her out of a party, and she did it by triggering a dark age.

Lastly, given general Greek mythology, it meant "the hottest," because the Greeks were shallow as fuck.
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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2020, 07:05:21 pm »
And on that note, where the fuck *is* the apple?
We gave it to Cram for safe-keeping, but he ate it.
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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 10:20:28 pm »
In the earliest versions there's no mention of an inscription at all. An apple thrown was a symbol of undying love akin to a marriage proposal... and yet there's a greater mystery.


Fun side note on "Golden Apples"

Quote
In later years it was thought that the "golden apples" might have actually been oranges, a fruit unknown to Europe and the Mediterranean before the Middle Ages.[33] Under this assumption, the Greek botanical name chosen for all citrus species was Hesperidoeidē (Ἑσπεριδοειδῆ, "hesperidoids") and even today the Greek word for the orange fruit is πορτοκάλι (Portokáli)--after the country of Portugal in Iberia near where the Garden of the Hesperides grew.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperides


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minuspace

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 10:27:03 pm »
Greetings!

[...]
 
And on that note, where what the fuck *is* the apple?

[FTFY]

Exactly.

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2020, 03:52:53 pm »
The phrase on the apple, "ΤΗΙ ΚΑΛΛΙΣΤΗΙ" may be derived from an epithet of the nymph Callisto:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(mythology)#Origin_of_the_myth

It sounds like the word was sometimes attached to other goddess names, like Kallisti Athena (Athena the Most Beautiful)


this page on the Apple adds a little more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_of_Discord#%22To_the_Most_Beautiful%22

Quote
Καλλίστῃ is the dative singular of the feminine superlative of καλός, beautiful. In Latin sources, the word is formosissima.

"formosissima" is latin for "most beautiful" or "most well-formed", which seems to refer to physical qualities.


But  The Greek word καλός seems a little bit more broad than saying something is "well put together", it also has a connotation of rightness:


Quote
καλός • (kalós) m (feminine καλή, neuter καλόν); first/second declension

1. beautiful, lovely
2. good, quality, useful
3. good, right, moral, virtuous, noble


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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2020, 07:08:12 pm »
In the earliest versions there's no mention of an inscription at all. An apple thrown was a symbol of undying love akin to a marriage proposal... and yet there's a greater mystery.


Fun side note on "Golden Apples"

Quote
In later years it was thought that the "golden apples" might have actually been oranges, a fruit unknown to Europe and the Mediterranean before the Middle Ages.[33] Under this assumption, the Greek botanical name chosen for all citrus species was Hesperidoeidē (Ἑσπεριδοειδῆ, "hesperidoids") and even today the Greek word for the orange fruit is πορτοκάλι (Portokáli)--after the country of Portugal in Iberia near where the Garden of the Hesperides grew.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperides


You may be barking up the wrong tree, entirely.

Oranges?

 :batman:

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2020, 07:54:55 pm »
In the earliest versions there's no mention of an inscription at all. An apple thrown was a symbol of undying love akin to a marriage proposal... and yet there's a greater mystery.


Fun side note on "Golden Apples"

Quote
In later years it was thought that the "golden apples" might have actually been oranges, a fruit unknown to Europe and the Mediterranean before the Middle Ages.[33] Under this assumption, the Greek botanical name chosen for all citrus species was Hesperidoeidē (Ἑσπεριδοειδῆ, "hesperidoids") and even today the Greek word for the orange fruit is πορτοκάλι (Portokáli)--after the country of Portugal in Iberia near where the Garden of the Hesperides grew.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperides


You may be barking up the wrong tree, entirely.

Oranges?

 :batman:

I'm AFRAID SO..

it's worth noting that they are a universal symbol of good luck in China, for some unfathomable reason, and there's like 14 nouns meaning orange(fruit).
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
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Juana

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2020, 08:09:37 pm »
The phrase on the apple, "ΤΗΙ ΚΑΛΛΙΣΤΗΙ" may be derived from an epithet of the nymph Callisto:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(mythology)#Origin_of_the_myth

It sounds like the word was sometimes attached to other goddess names, like Kallisti Athena (Athena the Most Beautiful)


this page on the Apple adds a little more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_of_Discord#%22To_the_Most_Beautiful%22

Quote
Καλλίστῃ is the dative singular of the feminine superlative of καλός, beautiful. In Latin sources, the word is formosissima.

"formosissima" is latin for "most beautiful" or "most well-formed", which seems to refer to physical qualities.


But  The Greek word καλός seems a little bit more broad than saying something is "well put together", it also has a connotation of rightness:


Quote
καλός • (kalós) m (feminine καλή, neuter καλόν); first/second declension

1. beautiful, lovely
2. good, quality, useful
3. good, right, moral, virtuous, noble


That's not particularly surprising. If you were beautiful, it was because the gods loved you and iirc there's a connection between beauty and moral rightness in some Indo European traditions.
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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2020, 10:42:59 pm »
Especially for the Ancient Greeks. Exhibit A: Apollo, beautiful, skilled, talented and the national god of the Greeks themselves as a people.

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2020, 11:01:20 pm »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

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rong

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 11:49:46 pm »
So Eris is why orange juice is yellow?
"he was a smart feller who felt smart"

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2020, 06:03:58 am »
The phrase on the apple, "ΤΗΙ ΚΑΛΛΙΣΤΗΙ" may be derived from an epithet of the nymph Callisto:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(mythology)#Origin_of_the_myth

It sounds like the word was sometimes attached to other goddess names, like Kallisti Athena (Athena the Most Beautiful)


this page on the Apple adds a little more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_of_Discord#%22To_the_Most_Beautiful%22

Quote
Καλλίστῃ is the dative singular of the feminine superlative of καλός, beautiful. In Latin sources, the word is formosissima.

"formosissima" is latin for "most beautiful" or "most well-formed", which seems to refer to physical qualities.


But  The Greek word καλός seems a little bit more broad than saying something is "well put together", it also has a connotation of rightness:


Quote
καλός • (kalós) m (feminine καλή, neuter καλόν); first/second declension

1. beautiful, lovely
2. good, quality, useful
3. good, right, moral, virtuous, noble


That's not particularly surprising. If you were beautiful, it was because the gods loved you and iirc there's a connection between beauty and moral rightness in some Indo European traditions.

And in America.
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~ The Good Reverend

Evil doesn't work without good people. Good people will do the most repugnant, nasty shit for what they think are "the right reasons"

DrStrangechao

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2020, 10:53:24 pm »
Not sure, but what I AM sure of is that it doesn't matter.

There is nothing "just" about Eris.  She is a crone wading knee-deep in blood, smirking because she taught those other gods BUT GOOD for leaving her out of a party, and she did it by triggering a dark age.

Lastly, given general Greek mythology, it meant "the hottest," because the Greeks were shallow as fuck.

Thank you Doktor, I am probably sure that you are correct in that it doesn't matter.  As with most things, in general. 
Still...I like to explore alternative theories to pass the time  You evidently have some to share :)

Is Eris a petty bitch? Really sounds like one if you put it that way. :(

And here I was thinking that chaos/discord could be seen as "just" in a bizarre way, since we are pretty much all susceptible to it. On varying levels. I am possibly overthinking this.

The Greeks sure did have a "hotness" virtue lol.  There is an emphasis on aesthetic beauty in their tales. Screw all that inner beauty shit. External "hotness" is hardly fair/just and (mostly) overrated. It is a bonus, though!
:D
 
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DrStrangechao

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Re: This question is "for the brightest"
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2020, 11:16:46 pm »
And on that note, where the fuck *is* the apple?
We gave it to Cram for safe-keeping, but he ate it.

Of course he did.  Why let anything go to waste? 
Or how I learned to stop worrying and love the Goddess