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Started by Junkenstein, July 09, 2020, 06:38:37 PM

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Scribbly

Yeah, I've got no real idea. I don't have strong ties anywhere, and friends live in America (lol no) or Canada where the MAID stuff seems like a pretty huge red flag.

Housemate is trying to get over to the Netherlands, maybe that'll be the way to go.
I had an existential crisis and all I got was this stupid gender.

Anna Mae Bollocks

Netherlands is good. I know a guy who moved there, he loves it. Nobody gives a shit about other peoples business. As long as you're not fucking with people, throwing them in the canal or something, it's All Good.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: Scribbly on January 28, 2023, 07:42:30 AM
[...] or Canada where the MAID stuff seems like a pretty huge red flag.
Why, what have you been hearing?

Domestically, there were reports that a Veteran's Affairs caseworker was inappropriately recommending MAID to certain veterans (the employee was fired as a result).  And making MAID available for persons suffering from mental disorders is controversial, to say the least.  But, I'm not sure if that should be a basis for deciding to immigrate or not.

Setting that aside, Canada's medical system is heavily overloaded right now, which might be a reason not to move here, especially if you're in less than perfect health.  It's almost impossible to find a GP in many areas, and there were recently two cases of women in Nova Scotia dying while waiting for treatment in emergency rooms.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

altered

MAID is already, IIRC (and my memory is very bad), being suggested to people who can't meaningfully work. They can live rich and valuable lives, but they can't help produce capital, so why not die instead?

Even if I am remembering that wrong and it's not being wielded in the service of capitalist eugenics projects, the system is SET UP for it to be used as eugenics. Like I'm all for assisted suicide as a concept, but it has to be firmly a process FULLY in the control of the person who will die from it, from the beginning to the end. Right now, it's not. It's recommended to. It's signed off on.

So long as outside forces have the first OR the last say, it will always disproportionately have an impact on the people who ACTUALLY could be living well but no, fuck them, we don't want THOSE types.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

altered

Also, starting in March, if I lived in Canada I'd be on the short-list of people who they'd like to just die already.

I have 198 other sentient beings in my head, most of whom would reject the word "people" and some of whom are, oh so scary, violently antisocial. Yeah, actually properly antisocial. (They don't want to hang in meatspace, it literally isn't a problem.) I'm also autistic and have BPD, so I'll never Be Normal and/or have fulfilling relationships with people who aren't as fucking insane as me.

I'm already treated like a fucking sideshow freak by half the people I meet just as a default setting, and doctors are fucking awful to their patients often enough that I wouldn't want any of those fuckers to even be able to say The Word to me unless I could dome them on the fucking spot.

Now imagine this LGBT fascist elimination project spreads over the border (and it ABSOLUTELY can, who remembers the stupid fucking trucker caravans) and some bright spark decides to reclassify LGBT identities as mental illness and boy howdy, Canada is overnight damn near Chechnya-bad for queers.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

Scribbly

#1085
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on January 28, 2023, 06:31:37 PM
Quote from: Scribbly on January 28, 2023, 07:42:30 AM
[...] or Canada where the MAID stuff seems like a pretty huge red flag.
Why, what have you been hearing?

Domestically, there were reports that a Veteran's Affairs caseworker was inappropriately recommending MAID to certain veterans (the employee was fired as a result).  And making MAID available for persons suffering from mental disorders is controversial, to say the least.  But, I'm not sure if that should be a basis for deciding to immigrate or not.

Setting that aside, Canada's medical system is heavily overloaded right now, which might be a reason not to move here, especially if you're in less than perfect health.  It's almost impossible to find a GP in many areas, and there were recently two cases of women in Nova Scotia dying while waiting for treatment in emergency rooms.

Yeah. I heard what altered heard.

It's about direction of travel, you know? Ten years ago I thought things were going well here. I move somewhere that is engaging in eugenics and it turns out they decide to expand that over the next ten years and suddenly it includes me, well, gee, my face will be red.


ETA: this is part of why I'm not as sold on fleeing as... Everyone else in my life. Moving means sacrificing my resources and starting over. If I need to fight anywhere I go at least here I have something to start with.

Meeting up with more friends today to discuss this though. We'll see where we wind up.
I had an existential crisis and all I got was this stupid gender.

chaotic neutral observer

As it's currently structured, MAID doesn't seem to me to be particularly dangerous.  The patient can't be pressured into it, and must find their living conditions unbearable.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying.html

Some snipped eligibility requirements:

Quote

  • be at least 18 years old and mentally competent. This means being capable of making health care decisions for yourself.
  • have a serious illness, disease or disability (excluding a mental illness until March 17, 2023)
  • be in an advanced state of decline that cannot be reversed
  • experience unbearable physical or mental suffering from your illness, disease, disability or state of decline that cannot be relieved under conditions that you consider acceptable
  • make a voluntary request for MAID that is not the result of outside pressure or influence
  • give informed consent to receive MAID

Requirements for independent witnesses to the request:
Quote
To be considered independent means that the witness cannot:

  • benefit from your death
  • be an owner or operator of a health care facility where you live or are receiving care
  • be an unpaid caregiver


Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: Scribbly on January 29, 2023, 09:24:04 AM

It's about direction of travel, you know? Ten years ago I thought things were going well here. I move somewhere that is engaging in eugenics and it turns out they decide to expand that over the next ten years and suddenly it includes me, well, gee, my face will be red.

This may just be a point of terminology, but euthanasia and eugenics aren't the same thing.  If you want to accuse Canada of eugenics, look into our history of forced sterilizations.  Euthanasia is supposed to be humanitarian; eugenics never is.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Scribbly

Have a look at those requirements through the lens of homelessness.

Then also imagine it through the pov of a trans person who is unable to receive healthcare if they also classify transness as a mental illness.
I had an existential crisis and all I got was this stupid gender.

Doktor Howl

Canada has this policy for people who are terminally ill, or some other condition that cannot be reversed but causes misery, such as advanced MS, etc.

I personally don't like it much for a bunch of reasons, but I hardly think it's targeting trans folk.  This is Trudeau and parliament, not Victor Orban.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on January 28, 2023, 06:31:37 PM

Why, what have you been hearing?

If I didn't know these two so well, I'd assume that someone strapped them to a chair in front of a Tucker Carlson show (he has gone from screeching about this to "liberating Canada" in the last few days).

Quote
Setting that aside, Canada's medical system is heavily overloaded right now, which might be a reason not to move here, especially if you're in less than perfect health.  It's almost impossible to find a GP in many areas, and there were recently two cases of women in Nova Scotia dying while waiting for treatment in emergency rooms.

That happens here all the time.  Your wait may be dictated by your ability to pay, even in the ER.
Molon Lube

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: Scribbly on January 29, 2023, 04:39:25 PM
Have a look at those requirements through the lens of homelessness.

Then also imagine it through the pov of a trans person who is unable to receive healthcare if they also classify transness as a mental illness.
Sorry, I'm not getting it.

Homelessness isn't a disease.  If I were homeless, I'd be more worried about the police picking me up, and dumping me outside the city so I could freeze to death.  Emergency room staff suggesting I might be better off dead wouldn't be high on my list of concerns.

If someone doesn't qualify for healthcare, then they don't qualify for MAID, either.  Being cut off from healthcare because of being trans would seem to be a different problem.

The point of MAID is that severely and untreatably ill persons should be allowed to end their lives with the assistance of medical personnel, without said medical personnel being charged with murder.  I think extending that to include mental illness is a bit doubtful, but if someone doesn't qualify as mentally competent, they're not eligible, regardless.

Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: Doktor Howl on January 29, 2023, 05:49:34 PM
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on January 28, 2023, 06:31:37 PM

Why, what have you been hearing?

If I didn't know these two so well, I'd assume that someone strapped them to a chair in front of a Tucker Carlson show (he has gone from screeching about this to "liberating Canada" in the last few days).
Yeah, I was thinking this has the same vibe as the American rhetoric about how socialized health care leads to "DEATH PANELS".
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Scribbly

It's mostly the people I know out there who raised this to me. Mental illness comes in from March I believe and there's a couple good rundowns of the poverty factors here:

https://globalnews.ca/news/9176485/poverty-canadians-disabilities-medically-assisted-death/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/canadas-health-care-woes-are-pushing-people-with-disabilities-toward-medically-assisted-death

It's not being weaponised against trans people specifically yet, but there's a lot of disabled advocates speaking up on it. It'd only effect me at the point I couldn't look after myself... But that also happens to be the point where I'd be out of other options.
I had an existential crisis and all I got was this stupid gender.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Scribbly on January 29, 2023, 06:20:55 PM
It's mostly the people I know out there who raised this to me. Mental illness comes in from March I believe and there's a couple good rundowns of the poverty factors here:

https://globalnews.ca/news/9176485/poverty-canadians-disabilities-medically-assisted-death/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/canadas-health-care-woes-are-pushing-people-with-disabilities-toward-medically-assisted-death

It's not being weaponised against trans people specifically yet, but there's a lot of disabled advocates speaking up on it. It'd only effect me at the point I couldn't look after myself... But that also happens to be the point where I'd be out of other options.

You of course realize those are both right wing rags, right?
Molon Lube