Roger's Got a Brand New Bag

[Cain]

Ok...but then what is your definition of "function" as applied to those philosophies?

Can the government back up its claims/threats/promises?

That is it.  That's all there is to it.  You'll notice there is very little difference between a functional government and a functional mafia family.  That's not a coincidence.  Just ask Smedley Butler, the greatest (IMO) of the Discordian saints.

Incidentally, that book I suggested to you (Government of the Shadows, the one about parapolitical research in political science) makes exactly the same point.  Twice.  Using the actual Mafia to show how it happens.

[Cain]

Or the "the best interests of the individual = the best interests for society, therefore letting people do whatever they want will lead to a perfect society"

which is PATENTLY FALSE and pretty much the same as believing in fairy tales. First of all, you have to believe that people always act in their own best interest.  

Alan Greenspan:
"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity (myself especially) are in a state of shocked disbelief."

I mean. Really? I mean, if the choice is between racking up a mighty bonus on risky schemes which aren't likely to fail before the payout at which point you can jump ship or otherwise ride it out.. and "doing the right thing" - what do we expect these hyper-charged titans of capitalism to do? Why should they care for the shareholders/dupes? Why should they care about the greater economy?

You breed sharks for aggression and greed and express surprise when they bite off your arm?

See, up until that point I always believed in intelligent hypocrites.. I never for a second thought that they believed their own bullshit.

Hypocrites are waaay less scary.

There was a piece in the NYT Magazine about the financial schools and why their economic theories failed.

The subtext, never said outright, was:  Economics is not about Numbers.  It is not Math.  Economics is how Humans react to numbers.  It is psychology.

Economists, in my experience, tend to suck at the human psychology side of the equation, much in the same way my own dear discipline does.  The assumption of a rational, unitary actor (either the individual consumer, or the nation-state) is only conceptually useful within a very narrow range of circumstances, and often doesn't apply at all.  And I think a fair few economists get this (in fact, there is a small branch dedicated to modelling human behaviour as it really is), but decide to use those models anyway, because they're getting paid to do x amount of papers and teach x amount of hours and draw up models for x amount of clients and figuring out how to apply all this shit is hard and takes lots of work and time they don't have.

[Cain]

And also, is it just me, or is there a lot of irony in the political philosophy which espouses spontaneous yet sustainable natural order (ie; Anarchism) being one which a lot of Discordians feel drawn to?

I've been meaning to write about this for a couple of years, but haven't found a way to make it zingy enough, except to note this amusing coincidence.

[LMNO]

Economists, in my experience, tend to suck at the human psychology side of the equation, much in the same way my own dear discipline does.  The assumption of a rational, unitary actor (either the individual consumer, or the nation-state) is only conceptually useful within a very narrow range of circumstances, and often doesn't apply at all.  And I think a fair few economists get this (in fact, there is a small branch dedicated to modelling human behaviour as it really is), but decide to use those models anyway, because they're getting paid to do x amount of papers and teach x amount of hours and draw up models for x amount of clients and figuring out how to apply all this shit is hard and takes lots of work and time they don't have.

Yeah.  The fact that both schools of economics (known as freshwater and saltwater, due to the costal/inland geography of the majority of the adherents) thought that the foundation of economics was that humans make rational decisions about the market continues to astound me.

[Cain]

This may also be a reason

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html

If you're a young academic and wont drink the Chicago-school kool aid, the Fed will make life hard for you.

[Cainad (dec.)]

And also, is it just me, or is there a lot of irony in the political philosophy which espouses spontaneous yet sustainable natural order (ie; Anarchism) being one which a lot of Discordians feel drawn to?

Hah! It never occurred to me to think of it like that.



"In the future, everyone lives in an Anarchic paradise where people are allowed to function freely and without restraint... except for an upstart group of mischief-makers called Discordians who ruin everything by setting up small proto-governments just for the sake of fucking shit up, and for the lulz."

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And also, is it just me, or is there a lot of irony in the political philosophy which espouses spontaneous yet sustainable natural order (ie; Anarchism) being one which a lot of Discordians feel drawn to?

Hah! It never occurred to me to think of it like that.



"In the future, everyone lives in an Anarchic paradise where people are allowed to function freely and without restraint... except for an upstart group of mischief-makers called Discordians who ruin everything by setting up small proto-governments just for the sake of fucking shit up, and for the lulz."

WIN

[P3nT4gR4m]

Maybe it's cyclical. Maybe that's how we got here in the first place. F'kin discordians 

[Cain]

I know I'd do it, in such a situation.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Bump.  Gotta get back on this while the teabaggers are riding the wave.   

[Doktor Howl]

 

Those were the days.

[Doktor Howl]

Joe, if you're wondering, your responses went here:

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=29596.0

[Adios]

Those were the days.

Yep, trains left the station on that deal. Bridge is out up ahead.

[Doktor Howl]

Ok...but then what is your definition of "function" as applied to those philosophies?

Can the government back up its claims/threats/promises?

That is it.  That's all there is to it.  You'll notice there is very little difference between a functional government and a functional mafia family.  That's not a coincidence.  Just ask Smedley Butler, the greatest (IMO) of the Discordian saints.

Incidentally, that book I suggested to you (Government of the Shadows, the one about parapolitical research in political science) makes exactly the same point.  Twice.  Using the actual Mafia to show how it happens.

I just bought that book.

I take your advice very seriously, but after a cooling off period of 13 years.