Hard Lessons to be Learned Before the Next Election

[Abbot Mythos]

-Creating and funding alternative media spaces online. You can't prop up the next Joe Rogan overnight, but you can start to cultivate and develop the next Ben Shapiro, Candance Owens, Tim Pool, ect. The problem right now is that the biggest left-of-center voices online are people like Hasan and Vaush who openly trash Democrats and Democratic candidates; Republican online streamers, podcasters, and posters are basically in a cult that bring in followers that will blindly support, vote for, and donate to your candidates. They need this structure of their own to prevent right wingers from completely dominating the medium.

I like your idea. And, I especially like the idea of possibly creating a Countercult™ to the Republicult™.

So, who, what, or where do you think is the best starting point(s) for getting this off the ground?

[Abbot Mythos]

-De-empathize idpol. Don't throw trans people under the bus, but also recognize you need to focus on more issues that affect as many people as possible as opposed to just grandstanding on your values and morals.

I agree with you on this issue.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but when the Democratic Party's messaging continually targets one special group or other, they're probably also making some members of the much wider audience resentful for all of the attention the target group(s) is/are receiving.

[Abbot Mythos]

8. 'Mericans vote for people they perceive to be strong leaders. They identify with them, want to be entertained by them, and want to be certain their potential leaders can defeat their common enemies.

So, to be perceived as a strong leader, a successful politician needs good, common enemies. And, if a politician doesn't actually have any good, common enemies, then good common enemies can be created.

For instance, do you want to elect people who can actually accomplish something against climate change? Then, make climate change the common enemy. And, I don't mean just talking about it. I mean showing the effects of climate change in its full, graphic, video glory, with "macho man looking" spokespeople as the narrators.

[Pergamos]

5. Negative campaigns are extremely effective. Running a positive campaign achieves no more than does "Preaching to the choir."

Don't believe me? Then, consider giving some thought to how well the "When they go low, we go high" strategy worked out for the Democratic Party.

If they'd gone high, with real proposals that helped the working class, they'd have won, but they're too indebted to corporations, and Israel, and can't support policy that would piss those folks off, so they don't get widespread support.

In this case it really wasn't that folks like Trump, he got less votes than he did when he lost in 2020, it was that folks really didn't like Harris.  her support for Israel kept a lot of folks home, and campaigning with Republicans, and pledging to put them in the cabinet, lost her more.  Until Democrats realize they can't win conservatives over, and they need to work to inspire the left, they will keep losing.

[Pergamos]

Maybe it's because I've been warming up to electoral politics the past few months, but I think this is the one time where the democrats didn't really do anything wrong. Her campaign policies on immigration and Gaza were questionable but a lot of exit polls show that Americans didn't give a shit about the border or foreign policy when voting. I genuinely think a lot of them are just too uneducated to know what the fuck they're voting for.

Well, if I had to blame one person for this, it would be Biden. He should've never reran for office in the first place and a primary should've been held. If people didn't want to vote for Kamala, it would've shown there. What's done is done, all that's left to do is to observe what happens next. Personally, I hope it's just another age of filibustering again. The republicans do have everything but it's not by a supermajority so I wouldn't be surprised if we get a government shutdown or two in the next couple of years. But I don't want to imply we're in for smooth sailing, at the very least the government is going to get way more corrupt and fucked up with whoever Drumpf fires and replaces.

I sincerely hope the Democrats filibuster like mad, it's not their style, but it could happen.

[Abbot Mythos]

5. Negative campaigns are extremely effective. Running a positive campaign achieves no more than does "Preaching to the choir."

Don't believe me? Then, consider giving some thought to how well the "When they go low, we go high" strategy worked out for the Democratic Party.

If they'd gone high, with real proposals that helped the working class, they'd have won, but they're too indebted to corporations, and Israel, and can't support policy that would piss those folks off, so they don't get widespread support.

In this case it really wasn't that folks like Trump, he got less votes than he did when he lost in 2020, it was that folks really didn't like Harris.  her support for Israel kept a lot of folks home, and campaigning with Republicans, and pledging to put them in the cabinet, lost her more.  Until Democrats realize they can't win conservatives over, and they need to work to inspire the left, they will keep losing.

In my lifetime, the Republican Party has always been financed and controlled by the wealthy from the earnings of their corporations. The only change I've noticed over the years is that the wealthy are now so wealthy that they legitimately deserve to be called oligarchs. The senatorial class of ancient Rome comes to mind when I think about where we actually are economically and politically today.

I thought I had been more than blunt enough in my posts on this topic, but I'll rephrase much of what I've already written:

Joe Sixpack, Doubleclutch, Bubba, Razor Ramon, and most of the women who willingly socialize with them did not vote for Hillary Clinton, or Kamala Harris. And, they did not vote for them because those two candidates are both Democrats and, obviously, women. Now, I believe a portion of the Joe Sixpack, etc. subculture may sometimes be convinced to vote for a Democratic candidate, or a woman candidate, but not both at the same time. 

I never saw any daylight between TSF's unconditional support for Israel and the Biden/Harris position. And, in any case, whether voters support, or do not support the current government of Israel, it's was still only a single issue in this last election. I have no reason to believe there were millions and millions of potential voters out there who stayed home because of this single issue.

So, I have two (2) questions for you, as follows:

1. How many votes did TSF lose over his own unconditional support for Israel?

2. In the end, what difference did the lose of those votes actually make?

[Doktor Howl]

Maybe it's because I've been warming up to electoral politics the past few months, but I think this is the one time where the democrats didn't really do anything wrong. Her campaign policies on immigration and Gaza were questionable but a lot of exit polls show that Americans didn't give a shit about the border or foreign policy when voting. I genuinely think a lot of them are just too uneducated to know what the fuck they're voting for.

Well, if I had to blame one person for this, it would be Biden. He should've never reran for office in the first place and a primary should've been held. If people didn't want to vote for Kamala, it would've shown there. What's done is done, all that's left to do is to observe what happens next. Personally, I hope it's just another age of filibustering again. The republicans do have everything but it's not by a supermajority so I wouldn't be surprised if we get a government shutdown or two in the next couple of years. But I don't want to imply we're in for smooth sailing, at the very least the government is going to get way more corrupt and fucked up with whoever Drumpf fires and replaces.

I sincerely hope the Democrats filibuster like mad, it's not their style, but it could happen.

Nope.  We're doomed.

It is against my religion to tell people they're going to be okay when they're fucked.

I do hope, however, that the 15.5 Mn dems/lefties that stayed on the couch are satisfied.  This is what they wanted, and this is what they get.

Frankly, I hope the fat orange thing gets all of you bastards.

[Abbot Mythos]

-Build fuckloads of housing and apartments in cities. California and New York are set to lose even more electoral votes in the next census in 2030 because of population changes elsewhere. Cities need to become affordable, attract people to come live there, and solidify Democrats' presence in cities to make sure blue states don't lose any more EVs.

In an already overpopulated world, attracting more people to already crowded urban centers is not an idea that would ever enter my mind. So ... so much for my ability to think outside the box.

My second thought was to recommend the alternative idea of establishing "liberal enclaves" in red states. But, I quickly realized that the purpose of my alternative idea could be easily nullified by typical Republicult™ gerrymandering.

So, after thinking hard about your idea, I just can't imaging any Democratic controlled state attempting to implement such a plan simply for the sake of more Electoral College votes. And, from what I have read, and people I have talked to, the current cost of housing around LA and San Francisco is outrageous. But, I'm not aware of any serious plans to deal with even that potentially solvable problem.     

[Abbot Mythos]

9. The Main Stream Media (MSM) is not our friend. But, it's not our enemy either. The MSM is simply a powerful group of amoral corporations out to make a buck.

Always remember, "The MSM is only in it for the money." So, learn to deal with it accordingly. In the long run, it can only be influenced by what it believes effects its revenue.

[Bruno]

I think a big part of the problem is the lack of real progressive messaging in the media, which seem to mostly represent corporate interests and, you know, Putin.

And even then, part of the problem with what little independent progressive media that is out there, is that the progressive message tends to be complex and nuanced, and it turns out we really need the votes of some 15 million or so people who are maybe not so good at processing that kind of information.

I agree, messaging is a big part of the problem. I believe it's actually been the biggest part of the problem for somewhere round three decades.

So far, I've been mostly focused on what I believe is the need to tailor "the message" to acceptability by a majority of the actual audience that's out there, not the audience we wish was out there. If we can get a wider audience to, at least, listen to "the message," and not simply reject it out of hand, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to pick up more votes for the Democratic Party's candidates.

And, of course, there's much more than just tailoring "the message" that needs to be done before the next election. So, do you have any ideas, or suggestions?

We need to find a way to appeal to stupid, selfish people. We already got most of the altruistic people and a good chunk of the people who can read at an 8th grade level or higher.

It's not enough, apparently.

At this point, All I'm concerned with is what is he gonna fuck up, and how can I profit from it. I've got a modest swing-trading account, but I haven't set it up to do shorts, yet.

I should probably get on that.

[chaotic neutral observer]

Nope.  We're doomed.

It is against my religion to tell people they're going to be okay when they're fucked.

The moving finger writes,
And having writ, moves on.
Now we are all sons of bitches.

[Abbot Mythos]

We need to find a way to appeal to stupid, selfish people. We already got most of the altruistic people and a good chunk of the people who can read at an 8th grade level or higher.

It's not enough, apparently.

At this point, All I'm concerned with is what is he gonna fuck up, and how can I profit from it. I've got a modest swing-trading account, but I haven't set it up to do shorts, yet.

I should probably get on that.

Yes, it comes back again to reaching the wider audience that's actually out there.

As far as investing goes, I'm seeing signs in the European news of a recession coming in Germany and France. And, with TSF going back to the White House, I'm in the process of getting out of the stock market, holding on to a pile of cash, and waiting for the buying opportunities that eventually come with a recession.

[Bruno]

It really looks like the education system is moving away from public schools and more towards vouchers, which currently means the religious right get to have their indoctrination subsidized and public schools are even more underfunded while also being under the thumb of christian nationalist legislators.

I guess somebody needs to start more left leaning private education institutions that teach shit like civics, empathy, and media literacy (woke shit).

[Abbot Mythos]

It really looks like the education system is moving away from public schools and more towards vouchers, which currently means the religious right get to have their indoctrination subsidized and public schools are even more underfunded while also being under the thumb of christian nationalist legislators.

I guess somebody needs to start more left leaning private education institutions that teach shit like civics, empathy, and media literacy (woke shit).

I agree.

This has become a major problem for the small suburban town just south of mine. Charter schools keep coming, and mostly quickly going, but are sucking up a lot of tax money in their short existences. Further, few, if any, of the students in these short lived charter schools actually live in the town itself. What students these schools do attract are being driven, or bused in from the much larger cities in the area.

As mine, and most of the small suburban towns around me are already 100% developed, my immediate solution for that town would be to buy up their old elementary school, the deconsecrated churches, and the other non-residential buildings being used by these charter schools after they fail. Then, I would recommend that they demolish the buildings, and then rezone the properties for strictly residential purposes, or even turn some of them into public parks. Property prices there, and in my town, are already sky high, so I suspect the neighboring town would, at least, break even cost-wise on this plan, after all of the dust has settled.

On the national level, we're going to have to develop a plan to rebuild the United States Department of Education after the Republicult™ destroys it.

[Pergamos]

Maybe it's because I've been warming up to electoral politics the past few months, but I think this is the one time where the democrats didn't really do anything wrong. Her campaign policies on immigration and Gaza were questionable but a lot of exit polls show that Americans didn't give a shit about the border or foreign policy when voting. I genuinely think a lot of them are just too uneducated to know what the fuck they're voting for.

Well, if I had to blame one person for this, it would be Biden. He should've never reran for office in the first place and a primary should've been held. If people didn't want to vote for Kamala, it would've shown there. What's done is done, all that's left to do is to observe what happens next. Personally, I hope it's just another age of filibustering again. The republicans do have everything but it's not by a supermajority so I wouldn't be surprised if we get a government shutdown or two in the next couple of years. But I don't want to imply we're in for smooth sailing, at the very least the government is going to get way more corrupt and fucked up with whoever Drumpf fires and replaces.

I sincerely hope the Democrats filibuster like mad, it's not their style, but it could happen.

I think a big part of the problem is the lack of real progressive messaging in the media, which seem to mostly represent corporate interests and, you know, Putin.

And even then, part of the problem with what little independent progressive media that is out there, is that the progressive message tends to be complex and nuanced, and it turns out we really need the votes of some 15 million or so people who are maybe not so good at processing that kind of information.

Progressives make up 30% of dems.  Blue dog dems make up another 30%, and 40% are your bedrock liberals that aren't opposed.

So what happens when you take the party too left, you get ~ 70-80% of your voters showing up and then you're fucked because the MAGA assholes run off with everything.

I'm

I think a big part of the problem is the lack of real progressive messaging in the media, which seem to mostly represent corporate interests and, you know, Putin.

And even then, part of the problem with what little independent progressive media that is out there, is that the progressive message tends to be complex and nuanced, and it turns out we really need the votes of some 15 million or so people who are maybe not so good at processing that kind of information.

Progressives make up 30% of dems.  Blue dog dems make up another 30%, and 40% are your bedrock liberals that aren't opposed.

So what happens when you take the party too left, you get ~ 70-80% of your voters showing up and then you're fucked because the MAGA assholes run off with everything.

I'm not wild about it, but we just saw it happen.

Well, that and the bullshit economy thing.

not wild about it, but we just saw it happen.

Well, that and the bullshit economy thing.

You think the Democrats moved too far left?  That's not my perception at all, it looks like they lost a lot of votes because Leftists stayed home to me.