Is Our POEE Calendar Missing An Important Holiday?

[Abbot Mythos]

And yeah, I already know Discordians miss a lot of things, and couldn't give a care about even more. And yeah, I already know most of us, even those among us who still call ourselves Discordians, don't take our POEE Calendar and its current holidays seriously.

Still, I'm well aware of at least one other popular deity whose birthday is widely celebrated as a holiday. But, our Blessed Goddess Eris was born eons before calendars were invented, and we don't even have the slightest idea if celebrating her birthday, on any particular day in a Year of Our Lady of Discord (YOLD), holds any meaning for her. And, as Our Lady of Discord has always been immortal, with none of that she's immortal, then she isn't, then she's is again back-and-forth, there are no miraculous resurrections to be celebrated in her honor either.

So, what's left? What do we actually know for sure about our Goddess Eris that may be significant to her, and her followers? Well, I'm glad I asked those rhetorical questions, 'cause I'm thinking it has to be the date of her epochal response to The Original Snub. Now, I do realize the climax of her response happened on the exact same date as that Wedding and Wedding Feast of Peleus and Thetis. But, no one's bothered to celebrate their anniversary for thousands years, if anyone ever did. 'Cause, let's face it, those two are not exactly "the poster couple" for people desiring a life of marital bliss.

Yet, and this is the big question, if we, our Blessed Goddess Eris's faithless followers, wanted to declare any day in a Year of Our Lady of Discord to be our very own "The Original Snub Holiday," what particular day would be most appropriate for the festivities?

Now again, obviously, I believe such a day should clearly be chosen in accordance with The Law of Fives. But, beyond that, I got nothin'. I'm unaware of the day, month, or even the year of the Wedding and Wedding Feast of Peleus and Thetis ever being recorded in any calendar system. And, to make matters worse, even trying to accurately estimate the year of the Wedding and Wedding Feast of Peleus and Thetis appears to put us in the situation of having to assign a Before Year of Our Lady of Discord (BYOLD) date to it. But, I guess that's just par for the Discord. 

So, any potentially enlightening ideas? Anyone? After all, this could lead to we the Discordians actually celebrating a holiday that is truly worthy of, and directly, unambiguously associated with Our Lady of Discord herself.     

Hail Eris!

All Hail Discordia!

[Pope Mome Apocrypha]

Now, I'm no expert, and there's very little in any record of that wild ride of a a wedding to indicate when it happened, but there's some clues and Discordian-style leaps of logic we can make to get closer to an ideal time for the holiday.

First- we know that the wedding took place on an "auspicious day"

Second- we know Peleus was Thessalian, so that narrows down our good days

Third- it was probably a civic holy day, as the leader of a power such as Thessaly probably couldn't be seen as a part of specific rural cults.

From this, we get the 12 civic holy days of Thessaly's calendar.

It's lunar calendar, unfortunately, but we'll get to those issues later.

But there's one holy day on it I think would fit the best.

Think, why was Eris not invited to the wedding in the first place?

There's certainly bigger issues between the gods than a little bit of strife and chaos.

Hell, if everyone else was invited, Violence incarnate and the concept of Disease were rocking up, hardly good vibes for such a day.

Unless the date of the wedding, and one of the more famous guests, particularly opposed the presence of the Goddess. A date celebrating a different goddess, with a very devout cult in Thessaly, a civic holiday, and a historical link with the bride, who was so diametrically against Eris being there she got her uninvited, so she and Zeus could plot their own beginning to the Trojan War.

Themis, who even here on this forum we have named Aneris.

But weddings, like all things, cannot wholly exist in the realm of Aneristic illusion, and Our Lady, Holy Wedding Crasher, showed up to get the party started.

On Aneris's own holiday:

Themistia, a most "auspicious day" indeed.

Now, Themistia is in the Thessalian month of Themistios, and which with a lunar calendar would be either over September/October, or November/December.

But that's fine, that leaves us with either the end of Bureaucracy, or the beginning of Aftermath.

Thus, I throw my hat in the ring.

The Original Snub, the beginning of it all, is not exactly a Genesis story. It's an unapologetic interruption.

Though it does not quite fit with our law of Fives lore directly, I believe that the Orginal Snub should be celebrated on the 73rd of Bureaucracy, at midnight, with an explosion of discord.

Our very own extra new years. 

[Abbot Mythos]

It's going to take me some time to work my way through your "Discordian-style leaps of logic," something that, at first glance, appears to be a totally acceptable orthodox Discordian oxymoron.

But, I admit, your calculation of this holiday's date does appear to have merit. Nice work.

[Abbot Mythos]

Now, I'm no expert, and there's very little in any record of that wild ride of a a wedding to indicate when it happened, but there's some clues and Discordian-style leaps of logic we can make to get closer to an ideal time for the holiday.

First- we know that the wedding took place on an "auspicious day"

Second- we know Peleus was Thessalian, so that narrows down our good days

I'm slowly working my way through your "Discordian-style leaps of logic." But, I believe you are definitely on solid ground using the Thessalian Calendar.

Not only was Peleus Thessalian, the wedding ceremony and wedding feast were held on Mount Olympus. Now, Mount Olympus may now be on the border between the regions of Greek Macedonia and Thessaly, but Macedonia didn't even exist during the Trojan War. So, being the nearest Greeks to Mount Olympus, it stands to reason that the Thessalians would have, out of respect and reverence, not to mention fear, readily adapted the Olympian Calendar for their own use. To put it another way, why reinvent the wheel? So, there's simply no good reason why the Olympian Calendar and the Thessalian Calendar would not be the same, identical calendar.

[Abbot Mythos]

Third- it was probably a civic holy day, as the leader of a power such as Thessaly probably couldn't be seen as a part of specific rural cults.

From this, we get the 12 civic holy days of Thessaly's calendar.

It's lunar calendar, unfortunately, but we'll get to those issues later.

All I knew about the ancient Greek city-states' calendars was that they did not agree upon a common, standard system (But, the Greeks didn't agree on much else either.). That's it. So, anything beyond that requires me to do some research, and I did find the following source of information:

CHAPTER 3 - THE THESSALIAN CALENDAR

Now, the information provided in this source appears to differ somewhat from your source(s). But, skipping way ahead to the bottom line, the interesting thing to me is that following either source(s) appears to lead one to your date for Themistia.

I still have a comment, or two, to write about Themis herself being part of the story. But, that can wait, as now I'm really liking your holiday date.

[Abbot Mythos]

Themistia, a most "auspicious day" indeed.

Our Blessed Goddess Eris has a genealogy from Homer, and a second, different genealogy from Hesiod. And, of course, our own Discordian tradition acknowledges both genealogies, while favoring and embellishing the Hesiod version with the addition of Aneris. But that's okay, 'cause after all, our Blessed Goddess Eris is, among other things, our Blessed Goddess of Confusion.

Now, if our Aneris is actually Themis, who is both a Goddess and a Titan, Themis's original genealogy could simply be ignored. But, being a Titan is a really big deal, and I'd kind of hate to see that exalted genealogy go to waste. Or, as is our Discordian practice, the genealogies of Eris, or Themis/Aneris, or both Eris and Themis/Aneris, could be intentionally made even more confusing! There are a lot of possibilities.

Anyway, I think you've come up with an excellent conceptual embellishment to THE MYTH OF THE APPLE OF DISCORD that would allows the faithless to lay claim to the creation of a new, legitimate, important Discordian The Original Snub Holiday.

So, what do you think you might want to do with your idea? Do you have any interest in developing your concept into a bona fide Discordian scripture? It's entirely up to you, as this is entirely your concept.

Hail Eris!

All Hail Discordia!

[Pope Mome Apocrypha]

I think I'd enjoy trying my hand at some genuine Erisiana. Would definitely be fun

[Abbot Mythos]

I think I'd enjoy trying my hand at some genuine Erisiana. Would definitely be fun

Excellent!

Hail Eris!

All Hail Discordia!

[Abbot Mythos]

I think I'd enjoy trying my hand at some genuine Erisiana. Would definitely be fun

You surprised me with how fast you came up with your concept for the date of The Original Snub. While you went right to the heart of the matter, I was still playing around with simply pinning down the calendar year.

And, while it's not critical to the story, I'll give you my thoughts on what I believe is the year of The Original Snub. It may, or may not, be of any use to your story, but here it is:

1. I'm inclined to go with Eratosthenes of Cyrene's dates for the Trojan War, 'cause if the guy who ran the Library of Alexandria isn't a reliable source of information, then who in Eris's Holy Name is?!

Now, Eratosthenes dated the Trojan War as occurring between 1194 BC and 1184 BC. So, I believe it's no stretch to assume that The Original Snub occurred a short time prior to 1194 BC. And, I'm assuming the start of the war is dated from the time the Greeks made their beachhead landing at Troy.

2. With five (5) squabbling goddesses on his hands, as per Discordian mythology, I doubt Zeus wasted much time setting up that infamous Judgment of Paris peace conference. So, maybe that took a week at most.

3. Even if Paris basked in the attention, and salivated over the offered bribes, of the five (5) goddesses, maybe the the Judgment of Paris took another week at most.

4. Once Paris selecting his bribe, and pronounced his judgment, I'm certain he wasted no time hightailing it back to Troy to badger dad for the keys to the royal yacht. And, being a royal yacht, I doubt it took more than a day or two to round up provisions and a crew, and head off down to Gytheio, the ancient port of Sparta.

5. Now, the Mediterranean around Greece is famous for it's Boreas, the North Wind, in the fall and winter. (And, having once steamed past Mount Olympus in the winter, I can verify it's a real thing.) So, I estimate the trip south took no more than three weeks, even with some stops.

6. The Odyssey is full of stories of heroes showing up unannounced at Mycenaean palaces and being wined and dined. So, Paris probably knocked on the door at Sparta, seduced Helen within a week, and then fled back to Troy.

At that point, it was maybe two months after The Original Snub, when Menelaus heads up to Mycenae to ask big brother Agamemnon for help. So, that meeting should still be within the calendar year of The Original Snub. But, even if it isn't, that meeting isn't the major factor for the period of time after The Original Snub required to gather ships, muster troops, and threaten the city of Troy.

7. Now, having read the stories, seen the movies, and having had the privilege of seeing a number of Mycenaean fortresses, I have little doubt those boys could gather ships, and muster for war lickety-split. And, while the average Greek hoplite may not have given a damn about Menelaus's honor, I'm sure the thought of looting a city as rich as Troy was ample incentive to get a move on.

8. Ancient armies are famous for going to war after the harvest, so they would be well provisioned.

And, I believe the Greeks had ample time to, gather their ships, harvest their grain, and muster their troops before setting off for Troy before the end of August at the very latest. Further, with loot on their minds, I doubt the warrior class would have been too concerned about leaving the grape and olive harvests to those staying home.

9. We've been told Achaean fleet was held up at the port of Aulis, in Boeotia, by a plague and lack of wind, because Agamemnon pissed off Goddess Artemis. And, this delay went on for so long that the King of Mycenae sacrificed his daughter Iphigenia to appease the wrath of the goddess.

So, just how long was the fleet delayed in Aulis before setting sail for Troy? I can't find a quick source for the length of that delay, but I don't believe it could have lasted anywhere near three (3) months, or the length of an entire season. Actually, given that, every day, Agamemnon would have had to deal with and army full of loot crazed, heavily armed hoplites standing around with nothing to loot, I doubt the delay could have lasted for more than two (2) months.

10. Given the much shorter distance from Aulis to Troy, and assuming Artemis had put in a good word with Boreas, and the other winds, after receiving her sacrifice, that trip could have been done in less than two weeks.

And so, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the Achaean fleet made it's beachhead landing at Troy before the end of 1194 BC. And, with the above estimated chronology, that places The Original Snub happening in 1195 BC. Or, as per our Discordian Calendar, happening in 128 BYOLD (Before Year of Our Lady of Discord). (Our calendar includes the year 0 YOLD. The other guys didn't know about zeros.) On top of all of that, it's a fucking myth! So, for that alone we should get some slack for Goddess Eris's sake.

[Pope Mome Apocrypha]

Wonderful deduction on your part Abbot Mythos. I'm incredibly impressed

[Abbot Mythos]

Now, I'm no expert, and there's very little in any record of that wild ride of a a wedding to indicate when it happened, but there's some clues and Discordian-style leaps of logic we can make to get closer to an ideal time for the holiday.

First- we know that the wedding took place on an "auspicious day"

Second- we know Peleus was Thessalian, so that narrows down our good days

I'm slowly working my way through your "Discordian-style leaps of logic." But, I believe you are definitely on solid ground using the Thessalian Calendar.

Not only was Peleus Thessalian, the wedding ceremony and wedding feast were held on Mount Olympus. Now, Mount Olympus may now be on the border between the regions of Greek Macedonia and Thessaly, but Macedonia didn't even exist during the Trojan War. So, being the nearest Greeks to Mount Olympus, it stands to reason that the Thessalians would have, out of respect and reverence, not to mention fear, readily adapted the Olympian Calendar for their own use. To put it another way, why reinvent the wheel? So, there's simply no good reason why the Olympian Calendar and the Thessalian Calendar would not be the same, identical calendar.

Our primary scripture, the Principia Discordia does not mention the location of the marriage and wedding feast of Peleus and Thetis.

But, according to the few fragments that still remain of the Cypria, the fifth title of the Epic Cycle, the marriage and wedding feast of Peleus and Thetis took place on Mount Pelion in Thessaly, rather than on Mount Olympus. Still, the logic for believing the Olympian Calendar and Thessalian Calendar are identical applies to either venue.

I'm making this correction because, in general, I like to stick to the facts when writing about the  happenings in the Epic Cycle, unless the 'facts' are ambiguous, or I really don't want to be burdened with sticking to a particular 'minor fact,' or other. However, the Cypria is special, as I believe it to be the only title in the entire Epic Cycle that clearly tells us mortals the origin of The Original Snub.

[Abbot Mythos]

After realizing I had ignored the importance of the Cypria in both the Epic Cycle, and the story of The Original Snub, I reread what little remains of the epic poem. Then, I further realized I had no memory of some details that affect the timeline of the overall epic, because I had not attached any importance to them.

Now, I'm still tempted to ignore the details that alter the timeline I outlined above. As, in what remains of the Cypria's documentation, Herodotus himself provided a quotation that would allow me to weasel out paying attention to some of those details, as follows:

"Fragment #10 --
Herodotus, ii. 117:
For it is said in the "Cypria" that Alexandrus came with Helen to Ilium from Sparta in three days, enjoying a favourable wind and calm sea."

But, as I have already stated, what remains of the Cypria is a really big deal to Discordians, as those pesky details that contradict my original timeline are written on the same fragment that tells the story of The Original Snub.

So, I'm going to review my timeline, and probably make some corrections that will push back the year of The Original Snub.

Last, it occurred to me that when the ancient poets and playwrights cast the mythical characters for roles in their epics, they really got their money's worth out of them, as they not only expanded upon the character's original roles, they continued making references to those characters throughout their works. And, isn't that exactly what Discordians do when composing our own scriptures? So, following the example of what the ancients did back in their day, what Discordians are doing when composing our own scriptures is all good.

Hail Eris!

All Hail Discordia!

[Abbot Mythos]

My rereading of the Cypria reminded me that the Greeks mustered at the port of Aulis not once, but twice. And, that happened because, apparently, in an invasion force of 1,000 ships, and perhaps 100,000 men, not a single sailor knew the way to the famous, immensely wealthy city of Troy. Not a single man jack one of them. Not even Odysseus, master of landways and seaways, knew how to get there.

It then occurred to me that the ancient poets and playwrights had no interest in telling a tale of a well planned invasion. They were more concerned with achieving fame and fortune by creating and maintaining a 'franchise.' And, by that I mean something like what the Batman franchise is today, with version after version of the same story, with the same principle characters, told over and over again. And so, I don't believe that mindset has changed much in 3,000 year. As long as a franchise owner(s) sees a buck in of for them, they'll never be done cranking out new versions of the same old stories.     

I also realized that thinking like a project manger was not the right way to approach approximating the elapsed time between The Original Snub and the beachhead landing at Troy, as it's unlikely realism even entered the minds of those ancient poets and playwrights. For, I believe they were more interested in writing hyperbole about gods, goddesses, heroes, and epic deeds, and maintaining their 'franchise.'     

Needing a different approach, I decided to further explore what Pope Mome Apocrypha had recognized. That is, that the ancient Greek calendar systems can tell us a lot. So, remembering that the lunar months of those calendar systems typically started on a full moon, and there is a wealth of free astronomical software available on the internet, I found something promising. I utilized the following software, and input calendar dates starting with October 20, 1195 BC, and worked my way back in time:         Moon Phase Calculator

Now, there are a number of free software programs out there for this purpose, but this one is surprisingly sophisticated. And, what I quickly found was that there was a new moon visible from Mount Pelion on October 20, 1198 BC, Julian Calendar. So, I still need to do a careful review of the events written in the twelve (12) Epic Cycle poems between The Original Snub and the beachhead landing at Troy. But, at the time of this posting, this new date looks promising.

Hail Eris!

All Hail Discordia!