Do We Have The Right?

[Pope Eggs Benedict Arnold]

There's a weird energy about me of late, and I've been standing at the gates of Chapel Perilous for so long that I've become a part of it.  A catalyst, a tool that the Universe uses as a hunter-seeker algorithm.  When I meet someone, I just know if they're ready for a little surreality.  I'm not talking about culture jamming or subversion, I'm talking about tearing away the dead static flesh and replacing it with chrome adaptation, often by just being the kind of person that other people don't believe exists.

Sometimes it takes a bit more.  Sometimes surreality demands it, and sometimes people don't "want" the expansion that synthesis can bring.  Sometimes they fear the freedom and apotheosis and prefer the comforting lies of illusion.  Where does our obligation end?  Should we let them sleep if they're ready, but resistant, or should the desires of ego be disregarded if it's in their best interest?

Do we have the right to shatter the chains that people have forged for themselves?  I know all too well that you can't help people who don't want to be helped, but there's a window there - an opportunity that arises, when they're ready to be let in on "reality" but don't want to admit or acknowledge that fact.  That's where I do my best work, but I'm having serious ethical concerns.

How much does the needs of the soul outweigh the desires of ego, and when should we - as agents of beneficial chaos - step in with that last little extra push to bring about awakening?

[nerinamakani]

Burn it all, the Phoenix's will arise. The rest will die.

[nerinamakani]

That's my party line anyway.

In practice..I'm tired.

[Pope Eggs Benedict Arnold]

Oneiromancy is the best mancy.

[Suu]

This belongs more in Or Kill Me, methinks.

[Pope Eggs Benedict Arnold]

AFAIK this belongs in

Literate Chaotic
A place to post and discuss Discordian "philosophy" and "literature"

unless ethics is a rant and not philosophy, which could very well be the case.

[Doktor Howl]

Crap.  Ben's back.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Crap.  Ben's back.

Sigh....

Maybe we can help him be more fun this time?

[Cramulus]

There's a weird energy about me of late, and I've been standing at the gates of Chapel Perilous for so long that I've become a part of it.  A catalyst, a tool that the Universe uses as a hunter-seeker algorithm.  When I meet someone, I just know if they're ready for a little surreality.  I'm not talking about culture jamming or subversion, I'm talking about tearing away the dead static flesh and replacing it with chrome adaptation, often by just being the kind of person that other people don't believe exists.

Sometimes it takes a bit more.  Sometimes surreality demands it, and sometimes people don't "want" the expansion that synthesis can bring.  Sometimes they fear the freedom and apotheosis and prefer the comforting lies of illusion.  Where does our obligation end?  Should we let them sleep if they're ready, but resistant, or should the desires of ego be disregarded if it's in their best interest?

Do we have the right to shatter the chains that people have forged for themselves?  I know all too well that you can't help people who don't want to be helped, but there's a window there - an opportunity that arises, when they're ready to be let in on "reality" but don't want to admit or acknowledge that fact.  That's where I do my best work, but I'm having serious ethical concerns.

How much does the needs of the soul outweigh the desires of ego, and when should we - as agents of beneficial chaos - step in with that last little extra push to bring about awakening?

I think that OM is beyond good and evil. Those terms are limited, subjective, defined by history's victors. I'm reminded my favorite Hagbard Celine quote:

Celine reared back as if I had waved offal under his nose. "Objectivists?" he pronounced the word as if I had accused him of being a child-molester. "We're anarchists and outlaws, goddam it. Didn't you understand that much? We've got nothing to do with right-wing, left-wing or any other half-assed political category. If you work within the system, you come to one of the either/or choices that were implicit in the system from the beginning. You're talking like a medieval serf, asking the first agnostic whether he worships God or the Devil. We're outside the system's categories. You'll never get the hang of our game if you keep thinking in flat-earth imagery of right and left, good and evil, up and down. If you need a group label for us, we're political non-Euclideans. But even that's not true. Sink me, nobody of this tub agrees with anybody else about anything, except maybe what the fellow with the horns told the old man in the clouds: Non serviam."

The way I see it is this:

external forces (you know - archons and the like) are already imposing structures on us, trying to cram the round world into a square hole.

Few people see / understand / GROK that in the way that we do.

(YES THAT'S RIGHT I SAID GROK)

you can either accept this imposition of order
                                                or reject it

and when you reject it, you've gotta also reject loaded words like "hero", "villain", "graffiti", "intellectual property", etc.

[hooplala]

We have the right (as much as anyone has the right to do anything) to attempt to shatter their chains, and they have the right (as much as anyone has the right to do anything) to reject our attempts if they so choose.  Such is the nature of freedom.

[Richter]

I don't have the right to do anything I cannot do, and am entitled to nothing I cannot take and hold onto.  That said, I'll take actions, mindfully, to do good for those of my tribe, even if it involves random exposure to the weird.  IF I think this isn't working, or find it overall bad, I'll do something else.  It seems to work for now though.

[Requia ☣]

external forces (you know - archons and the like) are already imposing structures on us, trying to cram the round world into a square hole.

Archons like the ancient Athenian rulers, or Archons like in mythology?

[Cramulus]

 

some form of both

[Telarus]

The Ethics of OM:

- Don't shackle yourself to your project. Lust for results leads to unethical manipulations.

- Act from your Center (unbalanced action always has unintended consequences).

The Basic Movements in Aikido are:

    * to move out of the way of the attack.  The most important technique in Aikido is to not be there when the attack arrives, be it a punch, kick, blade or bullet, and
    * to lead the energy of the attack in circles back to the attacker.  All techniques are combinations of circles.  Even when doing the smallest movement, you must be in the center of the circle in order to control the movements.

- Unethical behavior stifles growth. Unethical behavior stems from considering your own wealth/success/power/health/amusement as always more important than others, to the point that you always justify negative effects you have caused (he's a no good shit, etc, etc).

"Get rid of self and you avoid the spears of death." "To get rid of self" is to stop thinking of personal glory or fame. "the spears of death" is to be criticized by others. The spears are the fingers of accusation. If we stop thinking of personal glory or fame we avoid the fingers of accusation, which stop our growth: death. -O'sensei Morihei Ueshiba

- 'Ethical action' is a goal. Don't beat yourself up if you truly did not intend the negative consequences. Take responsibility, but not out of a sense of glory/fame/recognition.

Chao Te Ching:

  Chapter 5

Life is unfair, wear a helmet.
The wise spag wears a helmet, but also drops hammers.

Anything could be a punchline.
Even the wise spag gets punched.

Chaos never ends! 
Even its vacuum has a presence.
To struggle against it
is like pissing in the wind.

  Chapter 10

Can you laugh so hard
that it sounds like screaming?
Can you snicker like a jaded fogey
while giggling like a newborn baby?
Can you look with eyes that will actually see?
Can you lead people without dominating them?
Can you understand, without using your mind?

To create and destroy
with no sense of self,
to act without obligation,
to lead without tyranny;
That is an awesome super power.

[SuperNull]

[...]often by just being the kind of person that other people don't believe exists.

It may be is dishonest but it should be fun as hell if you can pull that off....

[...]Do We Have The Right? [...] Where does our obligation end? [...]

I'd say that no one is obliged, or has the right to, do anything.
Those concepts only exist in your head. Shape them as you see fit.... or don't....