Discordian Philosophy vs. Discordian People

[ataraxia]

(So I've finished talking about me. Just to prove I'm not a raging egotist, I'll write about something else: you. Now I realize that in doing this I run the risk of both pissing people off by getting it wrong, and retreading old tired themes that were run into the ground like two years ago. But if I worried about that all the time, I'd be paralyzed out of writing anything.)

Ok, so in my last rant I talked a little about the differences in my experiences with Discordianism as a philosophy/religion/whatever and those with Discordians as people. I've been thinking abouth this for a while and the pot boileth over.

The other day somebody posted a link to this page. I thought it was dead on in many ways (as well as funny ). Especially check out the section on "Followers".

I suddenly realized after reading this how to put into waords what had been sitting in the back of my mind: A Discordian (at least the kind who hangs out here) is not a follower of Discordianism. Here, a follower of Discordianism is called a n00b. Somebody who takes it all seriously, thinks a lot about Eris all the time, and treats it as a concrete philosophy (whatever that means).

A Discordian (dare I even say it, a "real" Discordian) is somebody who has figured It out. Such people just Do Their Thing. They don't "try too hard". they have learned the lessons that are out there, both in Discordian stuff and in their own minds. They are the Holy Men and Shit Heads. They have really figured out that Hill was nonsense. (This paragraph is 80% cliches. It sucks.)

Now, that's not to say that it's just bullshit. After all, we say that to each other, and to ourselves, quite a bit, but when some n00b, or even some totally unclued person who you tried to drag into it, says such a thing, it doesn't feel the same. You don't look at them proudly and say, "Damn, you're fast!" (At least, not seriously. ) There's just some kind of understanding process that has to occur, so that you can end up right where you started, but somehow, it's somewhere else.

I have several time heard Discordianism called "the Zen of the West" (usually by Neo-Pagan types). I think this is what they mean. I have often thought that Zen being bullshit, and those goofy koans where the student is enlightened after getting the boot to the head, were pointing to exactly this. Try reading The Gateless Gate and see if you agree. It is not just enough to be able to call it bullshit. You also have to know why and what kind.

So what does this mean? What am I going to do with my awesome knowledge? What am I going to tell you all to do, my WTF-saying audience? Damned if I know. It's really just yet another case of pulling back the flap and saying, "Oh, look. There's me again." So all it tells me is that I should do whatever it is I'm doing (and so should you do what you're doing). Or maybe, it's that I will do it whether I know/intend it or not.

Well, that's all I've got. I realize I'm arrogating "non-n00b" status for myself and that's a dangerously asshattish thing to do. I can only say what I think, though, or say nothing at all. (Of course, sometimes I think nothing, so I say a lot of nothing. ) What can I say, last night I have to convince yunz I really am just a n00b, and tonight I'm trying to convince you I'm a Man Of The World. What the hell. And besides, I'm just new to the board, not to the concepts.

And I think I need a keyboard macro to type "Discordianism". Damn, that's a long word.

[fluffy]

not bad

i would like to point out:

1. not everything you read about discordianism here represents the true thoughts of them what wrote it.

2. the people here who are the most vocal about discordianism being shit, eris is not real, etc., etc.
are subgenii, not discordian. there's a difference.

[edit: fixed a grammatical error. yes, i know. who cares? i care!]

[The Good Reverend Roger]

2. the people here who are the most vocal about discordianism being shit, eris is not real, etc., etc.
are subgenii, not discordian. there's a difference.

Yes, the Subgenii are superior.

We aren't saying we're SMARTER, mind you.  We're saying we're BETTER.

[ataraxia]

May be something to that. I keep getting pwnd by Subgenii.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

May be something to that. I keep getting pwnd by Subgenii.

That is our primary function.

Besides Sexhurt(tm), and Accubeating(tm).

[Verthaine]

What's wrong with thinking about Eris all the time,if thats what I like to do.
If I take discordianism and make it a concrete(or cement) philosophy,whats the big deal,especially if it works for me.
If I wish to take Eris seriously,thats between me and eris.There is no sin as long as i don't try to force anyone else to take Eris seriously.
Anyone who claims to have figured IT out is trying to sell you a shovel.
Doing Your Own Thing is well and dandy,as long as you know what your thing is.It is also about letting Others do Their Own Thing.And thats when it gets tricky.What happen when Someone Doing Thier Own Thing Interferes With You Doing our Own Thing.
We of the COE consider our belief structure to be bullshit,but thats ok,because bullshit makes the flowers grow,and thats beautiful.
Just because Hill was nonsense,doesn't mean he doesn't make sense.
I have saids it before,one Eris can truly say who is or who isn't a real discordian.None of us has the qualifications,nor the right to.The moment we try,we become no better then  Gruad Greyface.
Discordian Is,is what Discordian Is,and that is up to the individual to decide for themselves.We can post our ideas and opinions about it,and maybe influence one another,butt thats all we can do. No one here is truly superior to anyone else,IN  THE EYES OF ERIS.We are all popes of our own madness

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Anyone who claims to have figured IT out is trying to sell you a shovel.

Thanks for reminding me, Verthaine...Subgenii are also expert salesmen.

TGRR,
Says the shovel is free, with purchase of 50 Lbs of horseshi...fertilizer.

[metapunk]

Yeah that's one thing that gets me about this board, it is the hestation to post something for fear of being considered a n00b and getting flamed by a bunch of subgenii..actually it doesn't get me at all, it's just kind of stupid.

at the same time I remember when X-day happened and everybody was standing around all early in the morning and no spaceships showed up, there was this sort of pretentious guy passing around little discordian pamphlets saying something about haha, now check out this silly subgenii...23 skidoo..

All in all, zen is a deep concept which is compatible with discordianism in the sense that being a evolution of buddhism it realizes to a certain degree that the self is an illusion, and that suffering comes from this concept of attainment and desire, wishing the world was different from how it is, zen or sitting there is just kind of a realization that we spend so much time projecting our ego onto the world that we think that we are real, when in fact we are not these seperate entities but a interconnected life flow...

going from that though there is a certain amount of dogma associated with even the zen buddhism of Japan in that they don't steal or get intoxicated or tell lies.

there is also the concept of doing right.

i see more in common with taoism in the sense of understanding the flow, understanding eris as an embodiment of the principles of the universal life force that we all are/are a part of, even if it is all a fictional label...

i see discordianism as understanding that too a large degree objective reality is not something that exists outside of ourselves but something that is filtered through our minds. what we think is real is what we see as real, where we can alter the way we see things in order to alter their reality in terms of how they affect us, kind of the way the filter of capitalism creates these fictions of property and currency and then situates them into terms where people think of a space as REAL estate, and empower the government and the idea of the rulers in the state. Where they go into a store and pledge allegiance to the economy in terms of dollars that just tranfers more life into a system where the rich get the most out of it.

Many people don't realize the subjectivity of currency, they think of money as real...

That is one of the things I've always enjoyed about the discordian society vs. the subgenii and something I was talking about earlier. They've always embraced a kind of it's a suckers game so lets suck the money out of them, which has given the subgenii more space and venues in real life, such as renting the pagan campgrounds for X day. They hold devivals and make cash and sell shit. Where as the discordians have no prophets.

Of course now I don't believe that these so called individuals who think that they get it have really gotten anything other than a kind of elitist attitude and laid back lets just laugh at the people who come in here and think they got anything out of the BOOK whose domain we are talking on, while we go on and post a million inane comments as if they were insightful or enlightened other than just the social gibberish of a particular internet clique. But perhaps I'm wrong, a lot of people do come in here and seem to spout off a lot of trash talking and then leave, but what do you expect out of a religion that is based upon the goddess of chaos, confusion and disorder whose sole history to the Greek world is that of someone who was disinvited to a party and tossed in a apple that wreaked social havok and caused major drama as well as the first war.

But if you look at it more closely, what happened is Man trys to suppress Chaos, and because of this he finds himself vainly stroking his ego deciding between power, fame or a woman, because he has suppressed the womans role and stolen her power through the imposition of patriarchy. Literally he goes over and steals Helen (i believe) and then her dad comes over and trys to start a war cuz he stole his daughter aka property. I do think that there is some more to the story than just that.

Or tying in the parallels of grey face and civilization, or that greyface is really a metaphor for domestication and civilization. Meaning that when we tried to kill the chaos of reality through imposing our internal concepts of order upon nature and everyone around us, we lose the ability to just be happy children dancing in the sunlight, picking fruits and vegetables, hunting rabbits and living as one with the external reality that could be dubbed nature or just life in general. When we feel like we need to do WORK or till the field or protect the castle, or whatever we take things way too seriously, and thus the greyface complex.

I'm not advocating anything these are just some thoughts.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah that's one thing that gets me about this board, it is the hestation to post something for fear of being considered a n00b and getting flamed by a bunch of subgenii..actually it doesn't get me at all, it's just kind of stupid.

And yet, here you are.

at the same time I remember when X-day happened and everybody was standing around all early in the morning and no spaceships showed up, there was this sort of pretentious guy passing around little discordian pamphlets saying something about haha, now check out this silly subgenii...23 skidoo..

Um, Where were people standing around?  Are you really THAT stupid?

All in all, zen is a deep concept which is compatible with discordianism in the sense that being a evolution of buddhism it realizes to a certain degree that the self is an illusion, and that suffering comes from this concept of attainment and desire, wishing the world was different from how it is, zen or sitting there is just kind of a realization that we spend so much time projecting our ego onto the world that we think that we are real, when in fact we are not these seperate entities but a interconnected life flow...

KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMBAYAH, My lord, Kumbayah!

going from that though there is a certain amount of dogma associated with even the zen buddhism of Japan in that they don't steal or get intoxicated or tell lies.

What the fuck kind of religion is THAT?

there is also the concept of doing right.

You'll never have any fun that way, son.

i see more in common with taoism in the sense of understanding the flow, understanding eris as an embodiment of the principles of the universal life force that we all are/are a part of, even if it is all a fictional label...

Fuck!  And me without my sitar!

i see discordianism as understanding that too a large degree objective reality is not something that exists outside of ourselves but something that is filtered through our minds. what we think is real is what we see as real, where we can alter the way we see things in order to alter their reality in terms of how they affect us, kind of the way the filter of capitalism creates these fictions of property and currency and then situates them into terms where people think of a space as REAL estate, and empower the government and the idea of the rulers in the state. Where they go into a store and pledge allegiance to the economy in terms of dollars that just tranfers more life into a system where the rich get the most out of it.

The communist board is down the hall, son.

Many people don't realize the subjectivity of currency, they think of money as real...

Not me.  I just think the STUFF that money brings me is real.

That is one of the things I've always enjoyed about the discordian society vs. the subgenii and something I was talking about earlier. They've always embraced a kind of it's a suckers game so lets suck the money out of them, which has given the subgenii more space and venues in real life, such as renting the pagan campgrounds for X day. They hold devivals and make cash and sell shit. Where as the discordians have no prophets.

WTF?  Discordians have LOADS of prophets.  You can't swing a dead cat without hitting one of the retards.  You want a prophet of chaos?  Turn on the next State of the Union Address.

Of course now I don't believe that these so called individuals who think that they get it have really gotten anything other than a kind of elitist attitude and laid back lets just laugh at the people who come in here and think they got anything out of the BOOK whose domain we are talking on,

Huh?  I'm just here for the laffs.

while we go on and post a million inane comments as if they were insightful or enlightened other than just the social gibberish of a particular internet clique.

Who's "we"?

But perhaps I'm wrong, a lot of people do come in here and seem to spout off a lot of trash talking and then leave, but what do you expect out of a religion that is based upon the goddess of chaos, confusion and disorder whose sole history to the Greek world is that of someone who was disinvited to a party and tossed in a apple that wreaked social havok and caused major drama as well as the first war.

Oh, crap.  Now you done it.  The Fluffy Happy Hippie Discordians are gonna knock your teef out.

But if you look at it more closely, what happened is Man trys to suppress Chaos, and because of this he finds himself vainly stroking his ego deciding between power, fame or a woman, because he has suppressed the womans role and stolen her power through the imposition of patriarchy.

Yeah, we big bad males do that, Doctor Phil.  

Literally he goes over and steals Helen (i believe) and then her dad comes over and trys to start a war cuz he stole his daughter aka property. I do think that there is some more to the story than just that.

Helen wasn't exactly shrieking for rescue, fucktard.  Maybe you should read the Iliad, before you look even dumber than you do now.

Or tying in the parallels of grey face and civilization, or that greyface is really a metaphor for domestication and civilization. Meaning that when we tried to kill the chaos of reality through imposing our internal concepts of order upon nature and everyone around us, we lose the ability to just be happy children dancing in the sunlight, picking fruits and vegetables, hunting rabbits and living as one with the external reality that could be dubbed nature or just life in general. When we feel like we need to do WORK or till the field or protect the castle, or whatever we take things way too seriously, and thus the greyface complex.

Happy children dancing...  Face it, schmuck...without the Greys and the Pinks and all their works, things wouldn't be all fluffy white clouds and pink monkeysand kiddies frolicking in the wildflowers.  It would be more like "Malnourished kids grubbing for dungbeetles in the punishing sunlight."

WAKE UP, DUMBASS...those "sunlit fields" are really clanking, rumbling conveyor belts, dragging you into the blades.

I'm not advocating anything these are just some thoughts.

Alledged thoughts.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Aw, he ran away.

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

I think maybe you pwned him too hard.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

I don't think the difference between Discordians(tm) and Discordian folks really matters.  There's merely noob and not-noob.

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

Why (tm)? Why not

oh WTF? I can't use ASCII code anymore.

Never mind.  

[Cain]

Although I dont agree with all Discordians here being the same (there is much difference between, say, myself, LMNO and Verthaine) I can see an interesting point. The further you go into the religion the less you think of it as such.  You may start off saying all the phrases and using the buzzwords in the books, just as a martial arts student starts by copying individual moves of a particular style.  But the more its done, the further you find out your own style of doing things and follow the original methods less, unless they happen work for you.

Of course, thats just my view, and it may not be true, but its the bes analogy I could come up with to explain it.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

Fear my zen-fu!!!!!