B.ella's Magical Mystery Thread

[Bella]

Okay, I'm taking people at their word and not holding back anymore.  
So here is the new magical mystery thread.
Everyone is free to join in - submit ideas, links, discuss whatever.
Skeptics and naysayers will not be toaded.

However the posts of those who come to mock
will be subject to severely fluffifying nonsensical moderation of their posts by Mal and Moi.


You've been warned. Mwahahahaaaaaaaa!

Edit: This warning no longer applies.
But even though I'm no longer a mod, I hope you will all remain respectful.
Thanks.

[LMNO]

Ok, first off - do you consider magic (sp?) to be subjective or objective?

[Bella]

Could you elaborate on that a little bit?
I think I know what you're asking, but I'm not quite sure.

[LMNO]

Essentially (and I know either/or answers are anathema), does magic [sic] work on your perceptions, or does it actually affect the experiential universe?

[East Coast Hustle]

*strolls through singing*

...if you edit a post made by Turd, daddy's gonna buy you a mockingbird...

mock

mock

:P

*strolls off to take a milkbath and shave his legs*

Oh goody. It's almost time for the To Wong Foo Memorial Bunny Hop.

[Bella]

That's a hard one to answer for certain because everything gets filtered through my personal perceptions.
However, I think the answer is yes.

I believe magic is both subjective and objective at different times and to differing degrees.
Subjective is much easier to achieve, objective is a little harder.
Okay....it's a lot harder.


For instance, I have the mailman from hell. He started making my life miserable when I first moved to this neighborhood 16 years ago. If you don't check the mail everyday (and I don't) he'll knock on the door and yell. Or leave rude little stickers in the mailbox. Talking to him about this only made things worse.

So after a particularly traumatic experience with this mail nazzi, Demonica told me to take one of my rings and put some ylang ylang oil on it and stick through the slot in the mail pickup box. I asked that from now on, this man would present the better half of his nature towards me instead of the worst.  (Assuming he had one, that is - because I don't believe you can change anyone's basic nature.)  I put the ring through the slot, but didn't say who it was from or for whom it was meant. I assume he picked it up, but can't open that box to tell. Anyway, right after that his attitude towards me changed and he's very nice now. I didn't pick up my mail for about three days last week and he not only didn't complain, he knocked on my door and asked if I realized there was a package waiting for me. Said he was worried there might be something perishable in there. He still yells at the other people on his route, though.

Now I can't say for sure it was the spell I put on the ring that made him change his attitude. Maybe he thought someone was giving him a gift, maybe he assumed it was from me because it looked kind of witchy. My subjective perception is that the magic played a big part in this - but whatever the case may be, he's objectively nicer. And either way, I'm happy with the results.

[LMNO]

Do you ever stop believing in all this?  and if so, how do you get back to the belief state that seems so neccesary to achieve the intended ends?

[Bella]

Sure. It's like any other discipline.
I stop believing sometimes.
Mostly when I'm tired and things are getting me down.

When that happens, I mope for a while and then meditate or exercise or go for a walk.
I also keep a list of positive changes and look at that.
Whether it's actually magic or the result of positive thinking doesn't matter.
What matters is the results.
And once I realize that again, I can go back to believing.

[hooplala]

ylang ylang oil

What is that?

[East Coast Hustle]

I don't know what it IS, exactly, but I'd be more than happy to vouch for it's effectiveness in certain matters.

and NO ONE is more skeptical about that sort of thing than me, normally.

[Bella]

ylang ylang oil

What is that?

It starts out as this:




It's an oil made from the flowers of the ylang ylang tree which grows in the Philippines. It'a a relative of the magnolia, and I think it smells like a cross between magnolia blossoms and jasmine. It's yummy and is the main ingredient in several perfumes and love potions. Demonica told me about it. She used to wear it and men would follow her all over the grocery store, etc. Course they probably would have followed her anyway, but ECH is right. It works like hell. I think there's something in the oil that stimulates the pleasure center of the brain or something.

[agent compassion]

*strolls through singing*

...if you edit a post made by Turd, daddy's gonna buy you a mockingbird...

mock

mock

:P

*strolls off to take a milkbath and shave his legs*

Oh goody. It's almost time for the To Wong Foo Memorial Bunny Hop.

   

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Magic is basically an art. There are many paradigms through which you can approach it. Some see it as a psychological thing. Some see it as a spiritual thing. Some see it as an energy thing. Some see it as a pure information thing (especially the linguists). Some people see it through a combination of the above. Some switch paradigms to achieve whatever it is they are going for.

The point of it all is that it is subjective, otherwise it doesn't work. Let me explain: In order for all of this wonderful technology that we have, someone had to first dream up and design the ideas. Then they were realized....made real. Magic works like that, except maybe quicker. Now when I say it works like that, I don't mean it works the same way....you dream it and it happens. It still takes some effort.

I call it an art because it does depend on one's feelings, and one's psychological makeup...(more in if they can be mentally disciplined/focused than any other trait). The mind is the basic tool, therefore anyone training in magic learns how to use the mind...this sometimes means a lot of silly repetative exercises for those who train a lot. But much like a painter who must learn how to use color and how to use the brushes by doing some simple basic exercises, the magic-user has to learn a few simple basic things upon which the whole complex of other things can be learned.

It is an art also because it has an objective reality as much as any other art does. Music is subjective but look around and listen. You can hear it in your head even as you read this. Someone's song has a reality for you. And music can change the way you perceive or feel. Same thing with any other art. Art is used so often in our world nowadays to manipulate us into feeling the right things so we can be lead to consume the right products. Art, especially the art of speaking, can lead to thousands or millions of people following the ideas of a leader...who then goes on to change the world irrevocably.

I think of magic in this way. It is a broad definition but works as an effective approach. I used to be skeptical but appraoched certain aspects of magic with an open mind and experimented a bit. Now I know better than to think I can just judge something I don't understand as being false or superstitious.

[Cain]

Can you explain the linguistic approach more?  As mentioned elsewhere, I tend to view it from the psychological model, but that theory sounds interesting.

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Can you explain the linguistic approach more?  As mentioned elsewhere, I tend to view it from the psychological model, but that theory sounds interesting.

The information approach (favored by linguists) sees everything as basically information. You change the information, you change the reality. Now matter how small something is - i.e. the info in your head - if you make a change to it, you will create changes in other things. The approach has its ancient parallels in what is known as "contagion," except that in the information model, all you need to do is to change the symbol (which is info representing some other info) and you change the other info. This approach gets weirder as it incorporates more and more ideas about theoretical physics and semiotics.