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Logic and Belief

Started by BADGE OF HONOR, January 27, 2006, 05:00:46 PM

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BADGE OF HONOR

January 27, 2006, 05:00:46 PM
The other day I walked by a couple of Mormon missionaries.  Naturally I pretended that they didn't exist, but was confused by their presence in this northern Utah town.  Who are they going to convert?  Almost everyone, even the international students, are already Of The Faith.  

After more contemplation, I decided that LDS and other conservative Christian faiths like to do the whole re-born-again thing.  Reaffirming the faith is a big way to make sure that people stay after the initial emotional rush of converting has passed, or to keep the people who have grown up with it from getting bored.  Basically, it's a way to keep the faithful from thinking on a non-emotional basis about the nature of their own religion.

This, then, is the main reason why I have trouble with religion.  Abstract concepts and emotions just shouldn't mix so blatantly.

But then, I contemplated some more.  Was what I was thinking really rational either?  If "The Truth" is just what we choose to believe, and if belief is inherently emotion-based, even the coldest of science is a form of religion which just happens to have more facts and arguments at hand to affirm and uphold "The Truth".  I guess this is why people who were raised in the same place at the same time by the same culture can both violently reject evolution and firmly uphold it.  To each faction, "The Truth" is perfectly evident--it's just a matter of which logic system to adhere to.

Anyway, then I almost got sucked into the pitfall of relativism, but then decided that since I adhere to a particular system of logic--fact-based--I can still feel superior to religious idiots, because by my system they are incorrect.  I don't see why I should give their views any credence when they have chosen to believe in the wrong things.

I'm sure this has been gone over countless times, but it's good to do one's own thinking over such things.
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

hooplala

#1
January 27, 2006, 05:05:33 PM
I agree.

You may not be right, but at least you can say you had what you believed to be facts which lead you to those conclussions, instead of just believing some quack from the 1800s that an angel gave him a crystal ball with which he could translate gold plates from God which tell a groovy little story of Jesus rocking the Americas after he rose from the dead.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)" — Walt Whitman

LMNO

#2
January 27, 2006, 05:06:18 PM
As LHX (and maybe Hoopla) will probably tell you, this is where Maybe Logic figures in so nicely.  That is:

Even though all beliefs are a mixture of verifiable fact and speculative fictions, some beliefs have more fact than fiction, and vice versa.  

If this hypothesis is followed, then LDS holds more fiction than science.

I suppose at this point, one must choose if more facts than fiction is "better" than more fiction than facts.  But that seems like a personal choice.

Cain

#3
January 27, 2006, 05:09:06 PM
True. All systems are basically doubtable at their very core (because you have to believe in causality etc for them to work) but the scientific model is a pretty accurate description for finding rules about the Universe vs Jewish fairytales and crazed cult leaders.  By and large.

BADGE OF HONOR

#4
January 27, 2006, 05:09:21 PM
Quote from: eroticAs LHX (and maybe Hoopla) will probably tell you, this is where Maybe Logic figures in so nicely.  That is:

Even though all beliefs are a mixture of verifiable fact and speculative fictions, some beliefs have more fact than fiction, and vice versa.  

If this hypothesis is followed, then LDS holds more fiction than science.

I suppose at this point, one must choose if more facts than fiction is "better" than more fiction than facts.  But that seems like a personal choice.
Yeah, that's kind of where I was going, before getting sidetracked into a logic loop.
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

LMNO

#5
January 27, 2006, 05:27:47 PM
Yeah, you looked like you were teetering on the cusp of dichotomy, which is itself pretty much a fallacy.

BADGE OF HONOR

#6
January 27, 2006, 05:34:27 PM
Which is exactly why anthropology is bullshit.
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

hooplala

#7
January 27, 2006, 05:44:10 PM
ZING!
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)" — Walt Whitman

Irreverend Hugh, KSC

#8
January 27, 2006, 06:21:31 PM
They were just looking for Eris.
"Time for the tin-foil hats, girls and boys!"

Zurtok Khan

#9
January 28, 2006, 09:42:58 AM
Quote from: Irreverend Death to Poultry, KSCThey were just looking for Eris.

to stick things in her ample cleavage.

Like knives, and arachnids.
Resistance is Fertile.

Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more.
-Mark Twain

I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.
-Mark Twain

Irreverend Hugh, KSC

#10
January 30, 2006, 05:52:40 PM
Quote from: Zurtok Khan
Quote from: Irreverend Death to Poultry, KSCThey were just looking for Eris.

to stick things in her ample cleavage.

Like knives, and arachnids.

Whatever floats her boat, man.
"Time for the tin-foil hats, girls and boys!"
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