Ancient Greeks and Eris

[Cramulus]

I think I found it in Italian!

http://books.google.com/books?id=54sHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=speroni+discordia&source=bl&ots=ho1QOpuHbK&sig=9JZ4sJnGCPRWJGtzSzrdKvSHTvk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

[Telarus]

Excellent work Cram.

This lead me to this: http://books.google.com/books?id=mg5ocVetn5gC&pg=PA408&lpg=PA408&dq=%22Dialogo+Della+Discordia%22&source=web&ots=kQycF38nxg&sig=YDsbnkKY2TrBucVsR0AxhQ-LGhw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

From this, I can glean that the original collection is sometimes referred to as "Dialoghi", and that the piece we're interested in contains a dialog between Discordia and Jupiter (and that Mercury shows up at the end to back up Discordia.. gotta love St. Gulik popping up there).


I wonder how well the automated translators would handle Cram's find. Too bad the text isn't recognized and you'd have to type it all in yourself.

[Cramulus]

typed in a bit by hand, but it came out kind of gibberish. We need someone that speaks Italian. Or to find the French version!

[Cramulus]

still needs a lot of cleanup, but here's a more workable version in Italian

I took the PDF we found, viewed as plain text, and C&P'd all 60 pages by hand into a text file. Then added line breaks and bolded the speakers.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/cramulus/index.php?title=Dialogue_of_Discordia


using Babelfish to translate THAT page:

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-res&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.principiadiscordia.com%2Fcramulus%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DDialogue_of_Discordia&lp=it_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

still messy, but you can get some of the gist of it

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Holy shit, we seriously need an Italian Discordian wih fluen English to do a rtanslaion of i!

[hooplala]

It might very well be archaic Italian, no?

Consider what English sounded like in the same period.

[Iason Ouabache]

Damn!  If it had been in classical Latin I may have been able to stumble through a translation after a couple of months.  I know zero Italian though.

[Cain]

I might know someone who can translate it...however she's kinda ill right now, and I'm not sure of her exact level of reading comprehension in Italian.  She knows a fair bit, certainly, as she's a musician and did live in Italy for a short while...when she's feeling better I'll see what she's capable of.

[LMNO]

Oddly enough, that babelfish translation reminds me of hirley0's posts...

[DORADA]

In the Teogonía de Hesíodo Eris  alone without companion the wars generated to the forget,fulness ,to the hunger, the pains, the combats, the slaughters, the massacres, hatreds ,the lies ,the false speeches, the ambiguedades the disorder the destruction ,the oath :eek:and she is the nights daughter
Methaforically speaching
Why?

[LMNO]

Because of the pention.

[Cain]

Why to which part?  All of it?  Or any particular bits?

[Template]

Because of the pention.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

She also gets a bonus mention in one of Aesops fables, funnily enough along with the mention of an apple and a very Taoist piece of advice from Athena:

"Herakles was making his way through a narrow pass. He saw something that looked like an apple lying on the ground and he tried to smash it with his club. After having been struck by the club, the thing swelled up to twice its size. Herakles struck it again with his club, even harder than before, and the thing then expanded to such a size that it blocked Herakles's way. Herakles let go of his club and stood there, amazed. Athena saw him and said, 'O Herakles, don't be so surprised! This thing that has brought about your confusion is Aporia (Contentiousness) and Eris (Strife). If you just leave it alone, it stays small; but if you decide to fight it, then it swells from its small size and grows large." - Aesop, Fables 534 (from Chambry 129)

This sounds like the Law of Eristic Escallation.

[Telarus]

She also gets a bonus mention in one of Aesops fables, funnily enough along with the mention of an apple and a very Taoist piece of advice from Athena:

"Herakles was making his way through a narrow pass. He saw something that looked like an apple lying on the ground and he tried to smash it with his club. After having been struck by the club, the thing swelled up to twice its size. Herakles struck it again with his club, even harder than before, and the thing then expanded to such a size that it blocked Herakles's way. Herakles let go of his club and stood there, amazed. Athena saw him and said, 'O Herakles, don't be so surprised! This thing that has brought about your confusion is Aporia (Contentiousness) and Eris (Strife). If you just leave it alone, it stays small; but if you decide to fight it, then it swells from its small size and grows large." - Aesop, Fables 534 (from Chambry 129)

This sounds like the Law of Eristic Escallation.

Agreed. Wherein Mal₂ recognized that Chaos resides at level above Order/Disorder games, he recognized that if you 'fight' Ordered Strife (by imposing Disorder) or 'fight' Disordered Strife (by imposing Order), the original Strife will respond, 'then it swells from its small size and grows large.'