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Does America do any wine? I never knew.  And is is better than the beer?

Do you have Freedom Wine in America too?

I thought the spanking kids thing was a Maddox quote?

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All of corporate America?  Thats harsh dude.  I mean, Im on a 14 day weekend, that would mean I get the entire capitalist system in the teeth.  And no-one is that strong.

I once knew a kid who was "hyperactive".  His parents gave him a TV rather than spend the money on the drugs.  Kept me up until 3am during the exam season, not a good thing to do.  

Back on topic, there does seem to be a culture of letting the state do everything for you.  My mum is a school teacher and she has some horror stories, kids coming in with no idea of manners is just one of the examples I can think of, another being a parent who signed her kids up to all the afterschool clubs as soon as they started there, simply because she wanted them out of her hair more (she was unemployed btw, perfectly able of picking them up too).

Found a BBC article with Arab views on Bush's speech

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4197517.stm

My friend once complained that a chocolate bar he bought had got wet.  That he had it in his pocket while swimming in the Amazon river did not occur to him.  Perhaps this could cleverly be applied to the problem of war, but not by me.

espionage is so cool.

Thats all you need to say man.  Espionage is the coolest stuff ever.  Except possibly sabotage.  Unless you get caught.

I read them all.  Everyone's long posts.  Give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves in any argument, because 90% of arguments ar no based on logic.  that goes for me too.  Sorry, had a logic exam today, it puts me in a funny mood.

Lets all just sit back and take the cocaine which was offered a page back....

My analysis of Bush's speech.  I have a few questions also as I dont normally listen to US Presidential speeches much.

"After the shipwreck of communism came years of relative quiet, years of repose, years of sabbatical - and then there came a day of fire. "

Likening Islam to Communism in the threat it poses, perhaps on one level correct, fundamentally wrong in another.  Also, rather Bilical in its imagery.  Is that normal for a Bush speech?

"For as long as whole regions of the world simmer in resentment and tyranny - prone to ideologies that feed hatred and excuse murder - violence will gather, and multiply in destructive power, and cross the most defended borders, and raise a mortal threat.

There is only one force of history that can break the reign of hatred and resentment, and expose the pretensions of tyrants, and reward the hopes of the decent and tolerant, and that is the force of human freedom.

We are led, by events and common sense, to one conclusion: the survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. "

Basically, prepare to be invaded if you do not share the American conception of freedom,  You "will" be liberated even if you dont want it, as it were.

"America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one.

From the day of our founding, we have proclaimed that every man and woman on this earth has rights, and dignity, and matchless value, because they bear the image of the Maker of Heaven and Earth. "

Worrying, is he saying that America's vital interests are Christian, as America is an allegedly Christian country?  Also, Im not sure about that second paragraph.  I know the Constitution protects freedom of religion, but did it say that man was made in Gods image? I camt recall that, and it sounds like a near Bible quote again.

"Across the generations we have proclaimed the imperative of self-government, because no one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave.

Advancing these ideals is the mission that created our nation. It is the honourable achievement of our fathers.

Now it is the urgent requirement of our nation's security, and the calling of our time. "

Sounds like he is trying to find historical and ideological justification for further "regime change".  Also, he could theoretically claim it is then un-American and unpatriotic to oppose such actions in the future.

" This is not primarily the task of arms, though we will defend ourselves and our friends by force of arms when necessary.

Freedom, by its nature, must be chosen, and defended by citizens, and sustained by the rule of law and the protection of minorities. "

When is necessary?  Like Iraq was necessary?  Is he makin sense, saying it must be chosen, yet America is going to spread it?  How?  Meddling in intenal affairs of foreign states is an act of war.  Every first year International Relations student knows that.

"America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling.

Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom, and make their own way. "

Again, like in Iraq and Afghanistan?  Dont they have an esentially western based system of Government?  Ive heard nothing about the traditional, yet democratic Maljis al-shouras (religious councils, in which clerics each have a vote) being set up in either state.  yet they are part of the culture and history of both countries.  Or is it that they'll allow democratic institutions that are homegrown so long as they follow the western model?

"The great objective of ending tyranny is the concentrated work of generations.

The difficulty of the task is no excuse for avoiding it.

America's influence is not unlimited, but fortunately for the oppressed, America's influence is considerable, and we will use it confidently in freedom's cause. "

Prepare for the long haul, we've only just started?  And what influence are we talking here?  Diplomatic?  Military? Aid (withdrawl or promise of)?

"My most solemn duty is to protect this nation and its people against further attacks and emerging threats.

Some have unwisely chosen to test America's resolve, and have found it firm.

We will persistently clarify the choice before every ruler and every nation: the moral choice between oppression, which is always wrong, and freedom, which is eternally right. "

Do not threaten us, you saw what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We say we stand for freedom, so we are right.  Anyone disagreeing is therefore automatically wrong.

"America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains, or that women welcome humiliation and servitude, or that any human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies."

Unless they are a US citizen/Muslim and run foul of various anti-terror laws

"We will encourage reform in other governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the decent treatment of their own people."

What relations?  Clarify for fucks sake!  Miliraty, economic, what are we talking about here?

"Division among free nations is a primary goal of freedom's enemies."

You must stick with us.  Thats you, Europe.  You're terrorist loving scum otherwise.

"Make the choice to serve in a cause larger than your wants, larger than yourself - and in your days you will add not just to the wealth of our country, but to its character."

Your country is more important than you.  Kind of reads like sections of Corinthians in the Bible, saying to obey the state is a great good.

"This is the broader definition of liberty that motivated the Homestead Act, the Social Security Act, and the GI Bill of Rights."

Homestead Act?  Carving up Indian lands, if I remember my American West history module correctly.  Nice to see someone wants to keep the tradition of agressive expansion.

"Americans move forward in every generation by reaffirming all that is good and true that came before - ideals of justice and conduct that are the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Kind of looks like he is using past victories to justify modern ones.

" Liberty for all does not mean independence from one another."

We reserve the right to stick our nose in where it may not be wanted.

"From the viewpoint of centuries, the questions that come to us are narrowed and few. Did our generation advance the cause of freedom? And did our character bring credit to that cause?"

You're being judged.  Better act nice now, espescially given the choices are few.  Also inference of destiny that worries me alot.  People who talk about destiny, with such power, are inherently unstable.

"We felt the unity and fellowship of our nation when freedom came under attack, and our response came like a single hand over a single heart.

And we can feel that same unity and pride whenever America acts for good, and the victims of disaster are given hope, and the unjust encounter justice, and the captives are set free."

Denying our response to 9/11 is inviting new rifts in society.  Doing so is rocking the boat.

"Not because we consider ourselves a chosen nation; God moves and chooses as He wills."

Unless you dont believe in Him.  Could he get fatalistic, like Denethor in LOTR,if he starts losing a military encounter?

"History has an ebb and flow of justice, but history also has a visible direction, set by liberty and the Author of Liberty."

He's getting all "Destiny" like again.  Does he think he is the "Author of Liberty"?

"Renewed in our strength - tested, but not weary - we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom."

Oh shit.  He sounds like he's got a Messiah complex, maybe thats normal American political hyperbole, but anyone tried this over here, the silenced pistols would already be handed out by now  When people start talking about "destiny of nations" and "direction of history" I get worried.  he also seems to think victory is inevitable, which isnt true.  He also seems to be overplaying the freedom card, everyone got it by the third paragraph.  What is he pre-emptively trying to justify?

Im glad you bought up the tragedy thing.  That always pissed me off, almost more than the described situation itself (make of that what you will).  Glad to see someone is keeping the classical tradition alive!

Cocaine.

Best thing said so far.  By anyone.  Want to share Trojan Man?  I hope you bought enough for everyone....?

One day, a politician will stand up and say 'During my term of office, I'll do my best to make things better for people, or at the very least, I'll try not to mess everything up too badly.'

He or she would get my vote.

"it is far too fucking apparent all but a few of you get your info from Michael Moore and his ilk.

Thats funny, in over 2 months I havent seen a single reference to Michael Moore.  He's not the only one to criticize Bush you know. To name 2 high profile ones, Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky.  And I suppose the Guardian and Independent in the UK take their editorials from Moore?  What about the Times, who have been quite critical, in an oddly effective way for a Conservative paper owned by That Muppet (Ive disowned him as a fellow countryman, he is a prat).  I really do dislike this inference that only a lunatic fringe attack Bush and his policies.