Messages

886

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Rinzai School

« on: July 03, 2010, 03:53:17 am »

I don't know, in the Blue Cliff Record, there's a lot of slapping people, striking people and breaking of stuff going on. While I really wouldn't want to hit someone, I really wouldn't have any other idea what to do about that, other than just clap, or maybe shout, but those have all been done before, and could be seen as an attachment to the old stories... "He speaks the living word, not the dead word." or something like that... I also don't think that merely being silly with something completely unrelated would be acceptable, like walking away backwards, but, I mean, do they just hit people with a stick till their arm gets tired and then say to move on to the next koan? I'm guessing not, because I do get the impression that there is something significant there.

It seems to me that the underlying message is: these realizations cannot be expressed in words, and so cannot be thought of in words, which, well, a lot of people I've talked to about their thoughts (which isn't a lot of people) have told me that they think in written word, spoken word, visualizations, I'm guessing the point is to leave those attachments behind. The version of the Blue Cliff Record that I have is constantly badgering on about every possible rational explanation, saying it's wrong, kind of makes things confusing, but I'm thinking it helps make the point that one should not to get distracted by an endless classification of ideas.

I can understand trying to break down the rational thought process... True/false reasoning sometimes irritates me, considering we have all this awesome wetware at our disposal, I find thinking in patterns that resemble binary to be practical in many situations, but not really my thing... The whole dualistic mindset, good/bad, law/chaos, cause/effect, I can really see how they're all useful to everyday life, as well as science, but I find that if I get too hung up on that I can make some seriously bad assumptions because I'm always trying to pigeonhole something into one bin or the other and may miss some crucial aspect I would have noticed had I not been so busy trying to sort everything.

I seem to remember reading an introductory book to the chaos theory many years ago, which stated that deterministic logic is extremely effective, until the problem exceeds a two body problem, at which point deterministic logic fails, whatever that means... Though, all problems have more than 2 interacting factors... I suppose that is why they test things in a laboratory environment, to remove as many interfering factors as possible. This would mean, for the most part, in everyday life that deterministic logic is impractical (aside from that which may have already been determined in a controlled environment being useful information to take into account), and perhaps even detrimental. Maybe I'm assuming too much here?

Same thing with thinking in words. I do this sometimes, for example, when I'm making a post (though I'm not always sure what word I'm going to type next, it just sort of spills out onto the page, usually), but I find I do my best thinking when not thinking, as paradoxical as it may sound. I didn't write this post straight through, I circled back and edited it a few times. I can only hope I did a decent job.

I've had to let many things go over the course of my life. I've never really had a sense of permanence as far as anything is concerned, and I've spent a lot of time simply trying to regulate the constant impulse to panic. I've let go of a number of attachments, but likely not anywhere near enough.

One last thing, about emptiness... I think I recall reading that stopping at emptiness is a mistake. Maybe that was their idea of a practical joke to put that in there? Or perhaps it's something I'm not recalling correctly.

EDIT: Though I say dualistic thinking is not really my thing, I'm sure you could find a few posts of mine quite easily where I've done just that kind of thinking. It's something I try to avoid, but I sometimes surprise myself.

887

Or Kill Me / Re: On Awakening the City

« on: July 02, 2010, 10:59:00 pm »

I thought the demiurge was formed when Sophia (wisdom) sought to be closer to God than her station allowed, and through hiding this desire in the void, made a big, flawed mess, from which the Demiurge was formed, who then proceeded to tinker with the rest of the mess, creating the universe, and the beginnings of mankind, who eventually became what we know as humans today through the addition of some kind of divine spark, which the demiurge seeks to acquire for itself... The wikipedia article differs from what I remember reading long ago, and I should really read more about this and Plato's definition as well... Interesting stuff.

888

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Rinzai School

« on: July 02, 2010, 10:44:06 pm »

P.S. Consider drinking less, dude. You're clearly a smart guy with worthwhile things to say, but it'd be nice if you could post without having to constantly apologize for being wasted every day. Just a friendly suggestion.

I'm considering it... Thanks for the compliment. I could always go without apologizing, but that could have unpleasant consequences. I'm actually drinking less than I used to, I probably should consider not drinking at all. I get the impression that I owe you another apology here, possibly, I'll let you know when I figure out whether or not I do (it's not always apparent to me). My previous statement, the edited part, was composed while slightly intoxicated, and may have been slightly offensive, I don't know, though it doesn't seem too bad, just a bit of ignorant and pointless rambling.

I can see how the concept of sudden enlightenment makes sense from that standpoint, being free of attachments, which means I might very well be wasting my time with this first read-through of the Blue Cliff Record, and, indeed, anything I've read about Buddhism in general... But I'm not so certain that Zen is without its flaws. Realization through a lack of attachments is all good and well, but in the end, it strikes me as an attachment... Maybe that's because I just don't get it.

So, is it wrong to read each case until it starts to seem to make sense and move on? In an earlier post the process was described as having a monk study a single case until they could provide an acceptable answer... As I have no one to provide an acceptable answer to, save myself, who is a bit of a harsh critic but still often doesn't know what he's talking about, I'm not so sure it really matters, I'm just going to botch the meaning anyway. Still not going to stop me from trying to educate myself on the matter.

889

Principia Discussion / Re: Answers Only

« on: July 02, 2010, 11:04:47 am »

And that's why I have your mom's panties tacked to my wall.

890

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Dealing with Stress

« on: July 02, 2010, 08:58:38 am »

Yeah, I get that a lot, Nast. But that's how it is sometimes, or, rather, everyday.

No, it's not good. Did you read my previous post for dealing with stress? Keeps me from drinking so much.

EDIT: Though the lovecraftian squid proposes some good advise which, while tailored to his individual situation, could be helpful.

891

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Rinzai School

« on: July 02, 2010, 08:23:04 am »

Perhaps I'm ignorant... But I've been reading this stuff for years, and I've also read a little bit of other Buddhist stuff... To me, Zen as a whole seems like the shortcut that isn't a shortcut.

Then again, I haven't really taken the time to understand a single case... I've read it over several times, enough to get a pang of some kind of understanding, but I've not really "gotten it", I don't think... Reason being, I thought I understood "the Gateless Barrier" years ago, I was on meds at the time, but really, it was more like a kind of "mu sickness" described somewhere in either the beginning or end of the book.

I've been studying the "Blue Cliff Record", the Thomas Cleary translation, for the past few years. I progress slowly with it, sometimes putting it down entirely in order to replenish my energy by reading something more entertaining. When I feel like I slightly hit on something, I move on, I can tell I'll already have to start over from the beginning, so I may as well hit each case until I feel that same thing, then start over. It takes a while to recharge my batteries... But it seems like something is starting to make sense...

I see it as a sudoku puzzle without a grid or numbers... It's going to make sense one day, if I get enough time, it's just a question of when. I hope I'll get it the next time through, but that would be highly fortunate, so, probably pretty fucking unlikely... Almost all of the koans seem to strike some chord, but at the same time, they're so far off that I don't even know where to begin searching. I'll likely have to read it about 4 or 5 times, and the book is freaking big and nonsensical...

I wouldn't keep at it if they struck me as utter stupidity, but they don't... Something in me sees and feels something when reading these koans, it's just so mysterious and far away. I haven't even begun to understand them, but I can see that there is value.

EDIT: Cainad? You took some sort of college class on this stuff? You must've been some kind of masochist... Was the teacher someone who actually "got it"? Was the teacher a monk? I'm not going to criticize the class, but I have my doubts... I don't think a semester in Zen is going to teach anyone jack shit... Then again, never been the college type here, all my friends went to college, but at this point, it's not such a moneymaking venture, so, is kind of unproductive in that regard, just, well, does it make you smarter? I've heard it teaches people a lot of things, and instills a sense of urgency in self-education much like infantry basic training will instill a sense of urgency in physical movement, teaching a number of concepts on the way, but I must say that higher education confuses me...

Seems like one should be interested enough to study on their own, and, if stupid sites would stop restricting their access to all but top universities, I'd have access to things I'd like to study as well, found a whole page with brain related articles today, most of them were locked off... This is why I'm really ticked off about the institution trying to control the web, it's an old system of commerce flailing desperately to stay alive in a new sea of possibility... The sonny bono act (fuck you, sonny, just for having your name on that) was retarded, we have all sorts of copyright extensions, paid for by lobbyists who seek to extend the amount of money their corporation can extract from the global market...

I see potential disaster here. I'm also drunk and should shut up immediately. Thanks for listening.

EDIT EDIT: Cainad, I'd assume the sound of one hand clapping is slapping the dogpiss out of someone... Though there is that koan about groping for a pillow in the dark, there are eyes and hands all over the body. Assuming any of that crap is true, the sound of one hand clapping is two hands clapping, one hand claps, one hand claps, they didn't say only one hand clapping, just one hand.

892

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Dealing with Stress

« on: July 02, 2010, 08:03:48 am »

I just drink 'till the pain goes away, most of the time, though.

893

Or Kill Me / Re: scrawled in flagrante delicto

« on: July 02, 2010, 06:35:54 am »

I heard something like a Skinny Puppy song in the background while reading it.

894

Or Kill Me / Re: On Awakening the City

« on: July 02, 2010, 06:34:52 am »

I see... Yeah, in Machiavelli's book "The Discourses" he says kind of the same thing about conspiracies, that the larger the conspiracy, the less likely it is to succeed, the more likely someone will flake out and betray the conspiracy... But it has been a while since I read that... I wish I still had it, I'd read it again.

True, because no matter how convincing an argument you make, you can't sway the whole crowd, but if you could make a convincing enough argument you could possibly sway the majority, which would leave a tiny crowd in Toronto... However, even a tiny crowd is enough to sneak a few cops dressed in black in there.

I wish it weren't the case, but people seem just dumb enough to not question these guys in black showing up at protests and starting violent crap... It's not the first time they've done it, either. If they're some group of anarchists, they need to be stopped for the sake of everyone else because their stupidity is totally wrecking anything the other protesters are trying to accomplish, but I think it's more likely that they're cops and agents in disguise. Question is, if they are anarchists, what's the best way to stop them? I wouldn't even know where to start looking for these douchebags to argue with them.

If they aren't cops, does anyone think that their strategy might be viable? It seems to me that they're underestimating what they're up against, but I don't really know... Still, even if it was viable, if some sort of armed revolution were to occur, too many people would be killed and too much property destroyed to justify it, IMO, and another power structure would pop up in its place eventually, all the more wary due to events in the past.

EDIT: One person could sway a good deal of people who would show up for that kind of thing that I can think of... I just don't want to say his name, because I don't trust everything he says, I think he may jump to conclusions at times.

EDIT EDIT: Prescribe a strict no black clothing dress code, and  have a policy of turning anyone wearing black clothing over to the cops. Sure, it wouldn't take long for them to figure out, but it would disrupt the whole narrative.

895

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: New Shrapnel extension meme - Scars

« on: July 02, 2010, 04:11:46 am »

This is true, however, the damage occurred at an early age, giving plenty of time for process usually found on the left hand side of the brain to either be shifted to the right hand side, or to be accessed via a neuron reach around (LOL) of the damaged tissue... I still suck with math, though. Thanks for the compliment! Yeah, I had learned quite a bit for a child of that age, then WHAM, and there were all sorts of holes in my memories and abilities. Kind of set me back a little bit. I must admit that I was fortunate to have it happen earlier, rather than later in life, although, I could be wrong there.

I do mention that my assumptions were wildly out of control (though, perhaps I didn't expand upon it enough for it to be noticed in that soulless slog of a post), as just taking the left hand side of the brain's functions alone and attributing them to left brained people is incorrect, as they still retain the functions of the right side of the brain, and the whole working together is what really makes the brain function... It was kind of a stereotype, which I've held on to for way too long. I've been bitter for quite some time. Extreme left brain types don't always seem to appreciate my strengths, and this can be troublesome when I'm working a job and there's a management shift... If I must mention, my personality type is INFP, though I do shift to INTP from time to time. Still not ready to write up my thoughts on the shrapnel concept, as my brain is still a little nuked from the alternating tedium and overload of looking up those articles. I would have gone to other sources, but I just couldn't find anything in all the soup, and I also kept getting articles on Terry Schiavo.

EDIT: But yeah, I get the whole thing you said about trying to fit everything into a left-brain right-brain dichotomy... I also consider personality types, but, it's hard for me to figure out what personality type some people are... I know I sometimes have problems with SJs (sensory judgmentals, guardian types) as they seem to get hung up on rules without (in my opinion) being able to consider the concept behind the rules in the first place sometimes... Not to mention, my dad is an SJ, a Christian (more spiritual than religious), a major asshole, a socialist (I'm libertarian) and a probation officer, although when we sit down and drink a few beers and talk about things, we usually have a good time, and talk about all kinds of taboo subjects, like religion and politics. He has his good moments... In fact, talking to him has kind of made it easier for me to relate to socialists and liberals.

896

Or Kill Me / Re: On Awakening the City

« on: July 02, 2010, 03:57:16 am »

While I'll admit that that is true to a certain extent, I can't quite accept that there is no way out of the cycle. I've known too many unconventional people on the most distant fringes of the scale of conformity to think that there's not some way to hop off the disc, out of the sphere, through the wall of the cube, however you visualize it... Whether that's a good idea or not, well, I'll let you know when I get there.

I know that it is important to provide services to others for survival, as well as for the continuing survival of society, and that order is necessary to maintain peace among people as they currently are. These things cannot be done without, and I don't foresee that these things will ever be different. I understand why people prejudge others, it's a survival mechanism. Without prejudgment, one would easily fall prey to criminal sociopaths, however, this function in society seems to be malfunctioning, though I could be looking at it wrong.

The current mindset of the majority is largely dictated by accepted sources of information which they are continually exposed to. I cannot, in good conscience, say that all of those sources are corrupt. I can, however, assume that most of them are. I have yet to finish the Black Iron Prison, but I can understand the concept of twiddling widgets and sprockets on the machine in order to possibly redirect its course. I had come to understand, before ever reading it, that opposing said "machine" would be folly of the highest magnitude, as even the majority of people across the world standing against it would be steamrolled. This is not to say it's hopeless, just that you can't blindly rush in. One must position their pieces and force the movements of the enemy in ways that will be disadvantageous for it, and know that the enemy has been playing this game a LOT longer than we have... This is a double edged sword, which allows one to play on the arrogance of the enemy and feign helplessness, all the while adjusting a subtle tactic to be employed later for maximum effect.

Waking up the entire populace is not the first priority, but, reaching a larger number of them should be. One must be careful of dangerous people who would move ahead before the appropriate time, or move ahead at all, through an exaggerated sense of confidence, or due to programming from the puppet masters. First and foremost, violence will not solve anything, it will only serve to discredit the institution from which it comes, as well as any institution connected to it. Things are moving forward rapidly in the machine at the moment, and it is a growing concern of mine that some trigger happy idiot is going to be the start of a chain of events that may well destroy us all. I have been doing my best to spread notions that would impede said fools from going ahead and screwing everyone else.

The machine is gearing up for something, it is important that people know that they must feign weakness for the moment and let the commotion die down. Even with protesters present for a righteous cause, "fake" protesters may attempt to rouse the crowd to violent action, and, failing that, may undertake the action themselves. These agent provocateurs are very, very dangerous to any such scenario.

Now imagine this... In an alternate reality, Toronto geared up for all this mayhem and violence... Plans were put in motion to get newsclips of violent protesters and scared police officers holding the line to alter world sentiment... Everything goes perfectly, except... NO ONE SHOWS UP. There IS no protest. Suddenly everything that was done just seems kind of foolish. The plans cannot go forward.

But where did those protesters go? Oh, they went somewhere else, away from all of the staged drama, and put up a protest at, I don't know, Oklahoma City or something, where nobody is prepared for this sort of thing. Trouble would be, how do you communicate with them the details of the plan without the machine catching on? So perhaps the shifting of the location of the protest would be impractical, as spies are everywhere and it wouldn't take long for them to catch on. But I think, had there been no protest, it would have made everyone responsible for all the wild security measures look silly, I think it would have been hillarious.

897

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Dealing with Stress

« on: July 02, 2010, 02:28:59 am »

I wait until I can get a quiet moment to go over the cause of my stress, why did this thing stress me out? Some noises and people repeating the same thing over and over are probably the hardest things for me to cope with... I especially hate people who drive around with enormous subwoofers in their cars exposing everyone to their music and ensuring their own hearing damage, I mean, why the hell does it need to be that LOUD? Especially when I'm trying to sleep.

But, I just tell myself it's a momentary inconvenience. These people are wracking up bad karma by inconsiderately running around like they're not sharing the world with everyone else, and one day, they're going to get hit with that, with interest. can't help but feel sorry for them, really... They have no IDEA what kind of horrible music the next generation of kids will listen to to shock their parents. I have it easy.

898

Or Kill Me / Re: On Awakening the City

« on: July 02, 2010, 02:12:37 am »

I'd think this "Demiurge", the way you describe it, exists within all of its followers simultaneously... The only way I could think of would be to take that bitter pill and hide it in something sweet, like a metaphorical marshmallow or something... The BAM, the seed is planted, the tree grows, and it's suddenly too late. Then, the only way to return to the normality and conformity that they seek would be to spread the very thing that's plaguing them. What is this poison, one might ask? The very sense of personal responsibility that you mentioned.

899

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: New Shrapnel extension meme - Scars

« on: July 02, 2010, 01:53:35 am »

I'm so sorry, ya'll... It's just, I unfairly bashed left-brain dominant people, and found some shrapnel within myself. I was so afraid someone would read it that instead of editing it I quickly deleted it. I really didn't want to get picked apart for my ideas (actually, other people's ideas, chopped up and mutilated, then reassembled into some shambling Frankenstein's monster), which always seems to happen, because of a lack of documented evidence to support my outlandish claims.

I have spent the past three hours searching for material to help explain my unfair assessment of the left side of the brain, and how I came to such a flawed perspective (all things considered, there are too many chaotic factors to actually call any of the "split brain" experiments scientific)... The ONE article I was looking for, I can't find anywhere, I did, however, find the names of the researchers responsible for the experiments: Roger W. Sperry and Michael Gazzaniga. The gist of it that I got when I read it, I think, a number of years ago, I don't remember how long ago, was that the left hand side of the brain is better with linear reasoning, but also with retroactive rationalizing...

That is to say, the left side of the brain will go to great lengths to excuse the seemingly irrational actions that the right side of the brain undertakes (pointing to a chicken claw) due to visual stimulus the left side of the brain has no access to, while the right side of the brain simply indicates that it has no idea what is going on. This can certainly be a useful quality, but the implications of such kinds of behavior, and the consideration that we live in a world made by, and for left brain dominants, are a little disturbing. I did find the experiment mentioned on the following link, though the subject matter is a little different.

http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2009/04/confabulations.php

In truth, I am a bit jealous of left brain dominants, such is the source of my unintended outbursts at times, and shrapnel I have yet to remove, but I'm working on it. This is not the first time it has come to my attention. At an early age, I had a kind of nasty head injury, and it damaged the left side of my brain a little bit. I was left handed, and I was forced to use my right hand. Now that all the myellin sheathing has taken place, I'm not so sure I'd be able to learn to use my left hand anywhere near as effectively as my right hand, and my handwriting with my right hand stopped developing around the 3rd grade... Not to mention, I have to use my right hand to draw, and it's a painstaking process, sometimes with good results, but often frustrating. So yeah, jealousy, anger at living in a world that's constructed for the most common denominator (which, it makes sense if you think about it, but it really upsets me sometimes), and having to argue with people who constantly want facts and proof of everything without just taking my word for it (which is entirely sensible, but I like to just say my piece and move on to something else, not spend hours verifying what I've already looked into, though I should do so more often)... But really, coming to understand this gives me another opportunity to grow as a person.

More links I found on my unholy quest for the information I was looking for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain
http://scienceblogs.com/developingintelligence/2007/01/asymmetric_architecture_in_the.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralization_of_brain_function
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-handed

Should you choose to read them... The truth is, a left brain dominant individual without a split brain has access to the right side of the brain, which is actually better with statistical analysis and intuition, and so one cannot assume that they are so unbalanced as I, at times, assume them to be... The wording of my previous post, as well, was atrocious, and lacked any sort of humility in its expression.

I'll try to relate my views of the subject matter a in bit, having read all those links and searched for all that stuff strained my attention span and sort of blew the post I'd been thinking of making right out of my brain, which is why I don't like to go to such lengths often.

900

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: New Shrapnel extension meme - Scars

« on: July 01, 2010, 11:56:04 am »

Likely a bit of shrapnel lodged somewhere. My bad, it seemed good at the time, but... It had to go. Sorry about that.

I was kind of being a turd, though. I'll come back some time when I've got my crap together better.

I don't really have any ideas that could be called "great" (well no shit, Sherlock), or even "that could be good under the right circumstances."... Sorry if I worded things poorly. I have a lot to think about now...

I did like the thread, though. My reply sucked, took me a little while to realize it. Might not seem like that by the way I edited it, but I ate for the first time in about 48 hours today, after I'd had a little bit to drink, and came back and said "Nope, that's totally stupid, and I don't hardly know any of these people at all.".

Sorry about rambling about peppers too... Aw screw it, I need some sleep. Perhaps next time I'll have something better to say.

EDIT: Even overusing the word "though"... Yeah, sleep is probably the best thing atm.