We've got artists, scientists, scholars, pranksters, publishers, songwriters, and political activists.  We've subjected Discordia to scrutiny, torn it apart, and put it back together. We've written songs about it, we've got a stack of essays, and, to refer back to your quote above, we criticize the hell out of each other.

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Messages - Edward Longpork

I think Taleb's ideas are good & worth reading - even if he is not polite on the Internet.

That headline is a bit misleading, but the guts are that Hillary is handling the BLM protestors very very carefully.
Literate Chaotic / Re: Five word horror
August 12, 2015, 05:22:17 PM
My teeth turned into bugs
Literate Chaotic / Re: ITT: Original Story Ideas
August 12, 2015, 05:14:36 PM
On that note --

The DaVinci code, starring stoners trying to discover the founding father's pot supply.
I suspect my O-face and my Oh-Crap-face are very similar.
I agree with you - I think they poked a soft spot which Sanders needed to firm up. After the first round of disruptions, Sanders focused on economic inequality. But that missed the point, police brutality happens to well-off / college educated people too.

Now, for the first time, he's talking about police reform. Good! Somebody had to give him a black eye and now he's stronger for it.
Helpful graphic of Sanders' position on civil rights and racial justice:

QuoteQ: Were the discordians like Robert Aton Wilson Illuminati?

    Yes, they were good Illuminati, but they were a confused group.

    Their situation was similar to that of Aleister Crowley and the other occultists of his generation.

    Discordianism and other chaos-oriented philosophies is often a step one takes shortly after their intuition activates and they begin receiving Illumination. A person in this stage is acutely aware of how material reality is an illusion, but they have yet to understand what is behind that illusion.

    In terms of the Plato's cave analogy, they have freed themselves of the shackles and they have looked to the sunlight coming from outside the cave, but it is so powerful that it has left them in a state of existential shock. All the order they knew, all the things they thought were real, they now realize are mere shadows on the wall.

    This leads them to a state of mistrust and with it the adoption of the idea that there is no order in the cosmos at all. That behind the illusions is not intelligence but chaos.

    Chaos is indeed an aspect of nature, but it is not the sole ruling force behind all things as the discordians believe. Eventually the discordian will awaken to this fact, usually this awakening occurs once this individual begins to reconsider the ideas of trust and faith, and gives them another shot.

    When this happens, the circling and nonsense will cease and the initiate will take another step toward the light.

    As a teacher once said:
    "Its only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

    I want to pipe up from the Zen Lunatic branch of Discordia...

    Discordians have hard nips for disorder because we live in ordered times, and ordered times call for disobedient measures. But like order, it's just another tool in the bag. That's why the Chao has the golden apple of strife, but also the pentagon of keeping shit together; order is just another part of the carousel ride.

    There's a season of Bureaucracy coming. It's like an ice age, of a sort. It might have already begun, and when it comes, it's going to swallow us all. And you'll pay a processing fee.

    Discordians handle this in two different ways: Some of them are trying to prolong the current age of creativity (delaying the inevitable as long as possible). Others think that the only escape through prison planet is the path to Aftermath – they think we have to shake the rickety bridge, intensify the shitty parts of the order (memetic escalation, see the works of known and noted Discordian Stephen Colbert) until everybody gets sick of it and we replace it with something else. That's what we call Aftermath, the redemption from Bureaucracy, and that's where we're headed.

    As for Chaos - it's not disorder. It's the unknown. It's the untapped. The Ancient Greeks said "First there was Chaos, the vast immeasurable abyss. Outrageous as a sea, dark, wasteful, wild." FIRST, there was chaos. That's the base layer, this raw formless potential, the world as it exists before it gets felt up by thoughts and language. The parts of it we "get" we call order, and the parts of it we don't "get" we call disorder.

    Your brain builds this model, this little dollhouse of what you think the world is and how you think it works. And everything that comes in through your senses gets passed through this sorting engine that labels it and associates it and creates a model of it in your head and sits it down in the dollhouse. And for a lot of your life, you're in the dollhouse. It's a black iron prison of your own automatic reactions and choices and associations.

    So the zen-Discordian obsession with Chaos is not like a defiant brick through a window (not any more than disillusionment or ecstasy is a brick through the windows of the dollhouse). It's aimed at something kind of like satori, kind of like an a-hah, but feels like you are pissing yourself laughing.
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Logocentrism?
July 17, 2015, 04:57:32 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2008, 09:25:01 AM
In critical theory and deconstruction, logocentrism is a phrase coined by the German philosopher Ludwig Klages in the 1920s to refer to the perceived tendency of Western thought to locate the center of any text or discourse within the logos (a Greek word meaning word, reason, or spirit). Jacques Derrida used the term to characterize most of Western philosophy since Plato: a constant search for the "truth."

Logocentrism is often confused with phonocentrism, which more specifically refers to the privileging of speech over writing.

Logocentrism is manifested in the works of Plato, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Ferdinand de Saussure, Claude Lévi-Strauss, and many other philosophers of the Western tradition, all of whom regard speech as superior to writing (believing writing only represents or archives speech), but who more generally wish to establish a foundational presence of Logos or "reason" obtained from an origin of all knowledge (e.g., God or the universe).


Derrida believed Western thought has been riddled since the time of Plato by a cancer he called "logocentrism". This is, at its core, the assumption that language describes the world in a fairly transparent way. You might think that the words you use are impartial tools for understanding the world - but this is, Derrida argued, a delusion. If I describe, say, Charles Manson as "mad", many people would assume I was describing an objective state called "madness" that exists in the world. Derrida would say the idea of "madness" is just a floating concept, a "signifier", that makes little sense except in relation to other words. The thing out there - the actual madness, the "signified" - is almost impossible to grasp; we are lost in a sea of opposing words that prevent us from actually experiencing reality directly.

Derrida wants to break down the naive belief that there is an objective external reality connected to our words that can be explored through language, science and rationality. Any narrative we construct to understand the world will inevitably be built on supressed violence and exclusion. So, for example, the narrative of 'madness' has been shown by Derrida's colleague and friend Michel Foucault to be a highly elastic concept that is used to stigmatize 'dissidents'; it is a categry that serves the powerful. None of our words is immune to these power-games. There is tension, opposition and power in even the most simple of concepts.

Current events which touch on this ---

Growing acceptance for trans people - this involves accepting the socially constructed nature of gender roles. The idea of Male and Female just being a floating concept, a signifier.

On the other side of the fence, you've got the American confederate flag. The flag is coming down all over the place, and so we're also seeing some disgusting defense mechanisms.

I listened to a John Oliver episode last night in which he described the flag as "objectively racist", and I flinched a bit. I think what a flag "really signifies" is a floating point, and we're never going to find anything "objective" there.

I think that the discussion about the flag's "meaning" is missing the point and should be avoided; we should be talking about its consequences.  To me, it's not about whether the flag is racist or not, we should be focused on how people relate to and react to the flag. How black people feel when they see the flag is not up for debate.
I know a young Sun God. The way he lives his life is inspirational to me.

When you see him at a party, he's friendly, energetic, outgoing, easy to approach, interested in what you are talking about, fun to be around.

When he's at work, he's the same guy.

I find this trait, dare I say, heroic.

You could say my psyche is more fragmented and compartmentalized. When I'm at work, I feel like a different person - and it's not always a fun person to be. The job demands someone who is detail oriented, professional, submissive. A lot of the traits which make me fun to be around must be tucked away.

A few months ago I was at a corporate training session for something or other. The guy in charge was basically just running a script. He was doing all the textbook things which make you a good speaker - enunciating, making eye contact, clear phasing, giving time to ask questions... but I couldn't help but feel that I was interfacing with a script, not a human. Anything which humanized him was tucked away deep behind those eyes. Maybe this is just my own hangup, that I feel alienated by the Persona.

But as I grow, it feels less alienating. I understand why you have to build a wall between the personal and the professional--it's a survival trait. I can't help but wonder what effect this has.
Two vast and trunkless legs of stone / Re: Ingress
July 17, 2015, 03:49:26 PM
We're starting to see actual VR centers open up using a similar model to laser tag - play a video game with your whole body. Get the gamer off the couch and into a social setting.