Messages

GO FIGURE

          indiana would respond to the feds with this http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/13517720-418/indiana-sends-congress-illegal-immigration-tab.html

QUOTE:

          INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana's budget director calculates illegal immigrants have cost Indiana $130.9 million.

Budget Director Adam Horst sent Congress a bill for the amount Friday as required under Indiana's illegal immigration law passed last year by the General Assembly.

Congress is not expected to act on the request, however.

Indiana's law was modeled on the 2010 Arizona illegal immigration bill whose key provisions were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday. Indiana's law also is being challenged in court.

Horst estimated $110.6 million of the state's illegal immigrant costs have been for K-12 education. He estimated prison costs at $12.3 million and welfare costs at nearly $8 million.

HOW

          to they account for these numbers?

That's a good question, and it's also curious that they have calculated cost but not income, as it's well-documented that "illegal" residents bring states more income than they cost them.

SAME THING!

          how does one track what's undocumented?

It's surprisingly easy to track income taxes from undocumented immigrants, for two reasons; one, the most common form of social security fraud is using a stolen number to pay taxes, and two, the IRS has a form that a surprisingly high number of undocumented resident workers voluntarily use to pay taxes with because they want to be participants in the American system. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017113852_immigtaxes29.html http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-16/news/31199931_1_residency-and-taxpaying-illegal-immigrants-taxation-and-economic-policy http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/unauthorized-immigrants-pay-taxes-too

That's the direct income; it's harder to quantify the indirect income they generate by keeping afloat certain industries that are dependent on their labor (check out the farm labor crises in Georgia and Kansas), and also by stimulating our economy by being consumers. Now that immigration flow has reversed, unless something happens to replace it we're going to start seeing some direct and unpleasant economic effects of population decline on an economy that is structured on growth.

As an aside, were you aware that, contrary to popular belief among the pundit crowd, most undocumented residents didn't get here by sneaking across the border, but came on student, travel, or work visas, and just didn't leave after they expired?

THANKS, INTERWEBS DEMONESS,

          sorry it took so long for me to get to these, but every time i get to the bar where i can use their wifi, you (nigel) take over my laptop thing (THANK YOU ALTY!!! x 1000000000000000) and burn the battery out!!

ON THE

          economic end of revenue, these articles present some serious mismanagement or WTF. i still have lots of questions and we need to powow. also, as we were discussing the cause and effect occurrence of U.S. historical measures addressing immigration laws, we're experiencing one of those periods, it would seem (!?). what these articles say is that even more tax paying u.s. residents than we knew about are contributing to revenue, yet they're receiving EVEN LESS of the benefits of the average U.S. citizen. which is grounds for a revolution itself. what none of these articles focus on, is the fact that everyone really is stressing out about jobs and work availability, yet somewhere in that gap between the I.R.S. and all the rest of federal f$ckery, we have no foundational viewpoint for production/ real jobs vs. people needing them. those "undocumented" workers are even more voices silenced about how the feds are using that revenue.

THESE ARTICLES

          however, don't tell me how indiana is collecting this info, if in fact the I.R.S. is somehow above sharing their revenue info outside of their department interest.

SO WHERE

          on the one hand, i still have lots of questions, on the other, i feel i need a typewriter with surface to air missile capability.

JESUS FUCK

LET'S HAVE A GROUP HUG, GUYS

WHEN

          did it ever stop?

[quote:]

http://gawker.com/5885630/politico-mistakes-state-flag-for-union-flag-idiocy-ensues

          quote: See that flag? It is the state flag of Wisconsin. On the top there is the name of the state, "Wisconsin," and on the bottom is the year that Wisconsin was admitted to the union.

Politico reporter Donovan Slack thought that this Wisconsin state flag was, in fact, a union flag, and that furthermore Barack Obama's choice to stand under this union flag in Wisconsin made it "very clear what side" he's on. Whoops.

OK

          i feel that despite my forumtardedness, i have a grasp on the notion being suggested here. if we're choosing topics to appear on the main page feed,  the search topics would possibly at least, be more directly associated to relevant board material, i would assume.

VISITORS

          would absolutely, in my opinion, be scrolling through this material, because it is simply, predominantly  presented when one is immediately viewing the board.

THE FORUM

          would possibly be more active with individuals actually tuned into what really is happening in a relevant way, on the board, ...maybe?

Cain, I'd also add to your list: Rationality, Philosophy (classical), Philosophy (post-modern), writing, Economics, working the front door at dodgy pubs, and not taking shit from anyone.

Even if it's not your "specialty", you know more about that shit than the majority of people here. Especially me.

ABSOLUTELY

          this

VEX

          You are making some absolutely excellent points, for reals

HOWEVER,

          the idea that people go through the epic process of birth to attain a pittance of financial support is just stupid.

It's not intended to be a counter point per se. It's intended to be a demand for evidence to support a trite old Conservatard bullshit talking point.

THAT'S

          The ridiculous part. he's supposed to hit you with a library's worth of human experience?

- Do you hold any beliefs or adhere to any political positions which could be construed as "Conservative" by current and popular use of that word?

Doubtful.

- Is it possible that "Liberalism" assumes itself to be correct in the same self-congratulatory, evidence-deficient way that "Conservatism" does? If so, what issues may be examples of that?

Yes, definitely. As RWHN said, it's less in your face, but it's there all the same. I tend to find that the take certain things out of context.

- Could it be that PDCOM engages in openly, by-the-book Liberal philosophy (moral and political), and eschews all Conservative approaches almost as predictably as the Huffington Post, while claiming a title of "beyond the left/right paradigm" anyway?

I don't think so. We, as a whole, tend to lean more left, but we still pick things apart no matter the source.

Maybe. I just think Conservatives have a valid point that Welfare needs to be reformed because when people get on it, they often never get off. But where they see the "Welfare Queen," I se a welfare trap. There ARE people who are on welfare despite being able to work, and there does need to be enforcement to eliminate that.

Prove it.

EH,

          "prove it" isn't really a counterpoint, it's kinda ridiculous. Challenge vex on this point with an argument

TWID,

          you're just a rabble-rousing commie!

HOW ABOUT

          a tv miniseries version of interviews and such? discordlandia?

The New England area is fairly target rich, and if you're "serious" about interviews, I'd be willing to give you a couple of hours.

Yeah, I'm really taking this on as project that I'm serious about. I want to come out the other side with something engaging, entertaining and accessible  that explains what Discordia authentically means to today's Discordians. I would really appreciate you taking the time.

Bet you can get a grant for this.

WOULDN'T

          it be easier to do this by way of email? however, if you've got the cash to globetrot for this cause, take me with you!

GO FIGURE

          indiana would respond to the feds with this http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/13517720-418/indiana-sends-congress-illegal-immigration-tab.html

QUOTE:

          INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana's budget director calculates illegal immigrants have cost Indiana $130.9 million.

Budget Director Adam Horst sent Congress a bill for the amount Friday as required under Indiana's illegal immigration law passed last year by the General Assembly.

Congress is not expected to act on the request, however.

Indiana's law was modeled on the 2010 Arizona illegal immigration bill whose key provisions were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday. Indiana's law also is being challenged in court.

Horst estimated $110.6 million of the state's illegal immigrant costs have been for K-12 education. He estimated prison costs at $12.3 million and welfare costs at nearly $8 million.

HOW

          to they account for these numbers?

That's a good question, and it's also curious that they have calculated cost but not income, as it's well-documented that "illegal" residents bring states more income than they cost them.

SAME THING!

          how does one track what's undocumented?

GO FIGURE

          indiana would respond to the feds with this http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/13517720-418/indiana-sends-congress-illegal-immigration-tab.html

QUOTE:

          INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana's budget director calculates illegal immigrants have cost Indiana $130.9 million.

Budget Director Adam Horst sent Congress a bill for the amount Friday as required under Indiana's illegal immigration law passed last year by the General Assembly.

Congress is not expected to act on the request, however.

Indiana's law was modeled on the 2010 Arizona illegal immigration bill whose key provisions were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday. Indiana's law also is being challenged in court.

Horst estimated $110.6 million of the state's illegal immigrant costs have been for K-12 education. He estimated prison costs at $12.3 million and welfare costs at nearly $8 million.

HOW

          to they account for these numbers?

YES CUDDELYFISH

          you're making perfect sense. what i meant in regards t o the Obama fragment, was you suggest reasons for hating Obama, so I'm assuming this portion is directed at a specific individual who you know to be a jerk of some kind.

AND

          by all means talk more, so you can avoid needing rantish outbreaks. as much as the rest of us like to see it happen 

THE

          Obama part is confusing, I like the rest though, your free ride approach is fantastic