Messages

Welp, I'm sold. Fuck you, Mark Twain, a new Great American Wit is born!

Well, it's not simply about doing things right or wrong. If you want to make music, then play, write, record. If you can't do one, do another. You know what I mean?

Also, because it bugged me for some unknown reason until just now, would be acceptable if the United States legally demanded that everyone dressed as a stereotypical Pilgrim of their birth assigned sex while within its borders? Because dressing in traditional Arabic garb in Middle Eastern countries is acceptable "because its the law" is a fucking piss-poor argument.

ok, how about religion. an icon of my countries religious history has been misappropriated. you have one Eris. please return her immediately.

I was wondering when that would come up. The answer I want to give is that Western culture has some pretty solid Greek influences, but that might just be excuses.

so
if I were to begin wearing traditional Arabian clothing I would be guilty of cultural appropriation?

Here, in the US? Or the West in general? I'd say so. If you're running around there, I don't think so? Especially if you've moved there. Again, you should probably talk to an Arabian.

This is the sort of thing that people are talking about, Garbo. It makes no sense. If I walk around in a hijab because I like them, feel comfortable in them, or wish to show my various Muslim friends that I appreciate their culture through adoption, then it's wrong. Unless I'm in a predominately Muslim country. What if I'm visiting a predominately Muslim neighborhood?

I don't understand why it doesn't make sense. Perhaps I'm a little slow on the uptake and will facepalm later, but would you explain that to me?
I don't know how much of the hijab is attached explicitly to Islam, so I'm not going to say anything on the first one (although I do know that a friend who started wearing one eventually converted, partly, I think, because she felt she was appropriating it. I'll ask her). The country part - some of that is mandated by law, in some countries IIRC. As for when you're visiting a predominantly Muslim, IDK. Maybe? Might depend on the make up of the neighborhood.
TBH, I'm not real comfortable making these kind of comments because I don't belong to those cultures and don't know enough off hand to say anything for sure.

Because it seems like you're saying don't wear things that are culturally appropriated (and now it seems like you're saying there's a difference between religious and regional cultrues?), because you might offend random people. Well, sure, I might offend random people for being a white American, trans, lesbian, etc. So, offending people through my clothing choices are not something I really give a damn about. The people who matter to me wouldn't be offended by me doing so, and I would hazard to guess, that the large majority of the Middle Eastern and African Muslim students wouldn't even look twice at me. As one of my friends so aptly put it after discussing culture shock: "It's America, it's freedom."

I mean, I can fully understand why Native Americans would get offended by Caucasians adopting and fetishizing their culture. But it's a two way street. Should white people be allowed to get pissed when they see a Native American wearing "traditional" jeans, Western shirts, and cowboy boots? Or Christian symbols? The problem I have, is that it is coming across as we should be sensitive of other people's feelings, even if that means we have to bother about their inane sensibilities. Or, that it's that white people have to behave like "Westerners", or "White People", but any other group can adopt "Western" or "White" culture with no consequence. It's really fucking stupid either way.

Also to be considered, the clothing styles associated with Islam aren't specifically Muslim, they are clothing specific to the regions ethnic groups regardless of the religion. Saying a burka is a Muslim garment is like saying trousers are a Christian garment.

Yes, that's what I was getting at when I was implying there isn't really a difference between regional and religious culture. They are pretty well infused, and spread largely as one and the same.

ok, how about religion. an icon of my countries religious history has been misappropriated. you have one Eris. please return her immediately.

I was wondering when that would come up. The answer I want to give is that Western culture has some pretty solid Greek influences, but that might just be excuses.

so
if I were to begin wearing traditional Arabian clothing I would be guilty of cultural appropriation?

Here, in the US? Or the West in general? I'd say so. If you're running around there, I don't think so? Especially if you've moved there. Again, you should probably talk to an Arabian.

This is the sort of thing that people are talking about, Garbo. It makes no sense. If I walk around in a hijab because I like them, feel comfortable in them, or wish to show my various Muslim friends that I appreciate their culture through adoption, then it's wrong. Unless I'm in a predominately Muslim country. What if I'm visiting a predominately Muslim neighborhood?

I don't understand why it doesn't make sense. Perhaps I'm a little slow on the uptake and will facepalm later, but would you explain that to me?
I don't know how much of the hijab is attached explicitly to Islam, so I'm not going to say anything on the first one (although I do know that a friend who started wearing one eventually converted, partly, I think, because she felt she was appropriating it. I'll ask her). The country part - some of that is mandated by law, in some countries IIRC. As for when you're visiting a predominantly Muslim, IDK. Maybe? Might depend on the make up of the neighborhood.
TBH, I'm not real comfortable making these kind of comments because I don't belong to those cultures and don't know enough off hand to say anything for sure.

Because it seems like you're saying don't wear things that are culturally appropriated (and now it seems like you're saying there's a difference between religious and regional cultrues?), because you might offend random people. Well, sure, I might offend random people for being a white American, trans, lesbian, etc. So, offending people through my clothing choices are not something I really give a damn about. The people who matter to me wouldn't be offended by me doing so, and I would hazard to guess, that the large majority of the Middle Eastern and African Muslim students wouldn't even look twice at me. As one of my friends so aptly put it after discussing culture shock: "It's America, it's freedom."

I mean, I can fully understand why Native Americans would get offended by Caucasians adopting and fetishizing their culture. But it's a two way street. Should white people be allowed to get pissed when they see a Native American wearing "traditional" jeans, Western shirts, and cowboy boots? Or Christian symbols? The problem I have, is that it is coming across as we should be sensitive of other people's feelings, even if that means we have to bother about their inane sensibilities. Or, that it's that white people have to behave like "Westerners", or "White People", but any other group can adopt "Western" or "White" culture with no consequence. It's really fucking stupid either way.

The two new folks have achieved my fastest plegde ever.

Yeah,  iwas still giving them the benefit of the doubt, but.. .goddamn man.

so
if I were to begin wearing traditional Arabian clothing I would be guilty of cultural appropriation?

Here, in the US? Or the West in general? I'd say so. If you're running around there, I don't think so? Especially if you've moved there. Again, you should probably talk to an Arabian.

This is the sort of thing that people are talking about, Garbo. It makes no sense. If I walk around in a hijab because I like them, feel comfortable in them, or wish to show my various Muslim friends that I appreciate their culture through adoption, then it's wrong. Unless I'm in a predominately Muslim country. What if I'm visiting a predominately Muslim neighborhood?

While I can't put a finger on it as confidantly as this article does, I do whole-heartedly agree there's someting strange a happenings...

Alot of modern women I've interacted with have been very unaware of true maleness, very loud and simple ideas of what it means to be a man.

and honestly a great lack in interest in learning anything beyond their current knowlege. There seems to be an engrained "I am great and totally not crazy...at all" mentality in women that I'm inclined to just let it be and let them see how that works out...because I don't think there is reasoning with these creatures.

Ummm. Do you not know where you are, or are you trolling? 

This is fucking amazing: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/tobacco-deception-judge-ruling_n_2199973.html

A federal judge on Tuesday ordered tobacco companies to publish corrective statements that say they lied about the dangers of smoking and that disclose smoking's health effects, including the death on average of 1,200 people a day.

U.S. District Judge Gladys Kessler previously had said she wanted the industry to pay for corrective statements in various types of advertisements. But Tuesday's ruling is the first time she's laid out what the statements will say.

Each corrective ad is to be prefaced by a statement that a federal court has concluded that the defendant tobacco companies "deliberately deceived the American public about the health effects of smoking." Among the required statements are that smoking kills more people than murder, AIDS, suicide, drugs, car crashes and alcohol combined, and that "secondhand smoke kills over 3,000 Americans a year."

This actually gives me hope.

Holy fuck. Never thought that would happen. 

that's stupid. You've missed the point.

Erm. I don't think that you have any idea what the topic at hand is, friend. So... uh. I suggest you carefully go back and read all of the related posts, without making up your mind what the question is supposed based solely on the thread's title. Because uh, Freeky's point is much more accurate than whatever point you were making to the current discussion. Contemporary American culture is so far removed from the ancestral European customs (and since a large majority of Americans are many generations removed from immigration, the contemporary cultures don't necessarily match up to the "roots", so to speak), that it is not as simple as all that, since there isn't nearly as much of a connection between an American of Polish descent and an actual Polish citizen as one would like to think. In fact, most of the time when Americans attempt to go back to their ethnic roots, they end up with a horribly bastardized version of the culture they try to claim. (See: 90% of "Irish" Americans).

I will merely point out there are far better ways to challenge contemporary religion that do so in a far more effective and persuasive way.

I have comeback, with plenty of butthurt for everyone to share. 


(also  )

I'm leaving PD forever. I'll be back most likely in the wee hours of the morning, as usual. Good day!

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/hundreds-take-part-in-portsmouth-walk-to-reclaim-the-night-1-4521615

A local paper, I'm the spag in the centre of the photo with a yellow sign. NOT FOR WOMPING PLZ.

awesome!




mah hair is gettin' lawng.

MOAR HAIR.

I'm Doktor Phox, and I approve this message.

Well done, friend. I thoroughly enjoyed this piece.