The ones that aren't right wing trolls will just dismiss any reason you have for not wanting the right wing death cult in power.
I bring up the fact that I'm trans and one party wants to fucking kill me, and I get accused of being a "bootlicker"...
Because I don't want to be banned from existing in public.
(https://discordian.social/system/media_attachments/files/111/874/111/077/219/470/original/3e5923a85e4ec91a.jpeg)
I get it, the dems aren't perfect, but what the fuck do people expect letting fascists win to do?
But the idea that letting queer folks and other minorities suffer more to help push the "revolution" forward (yes, that's what I've been told should happen) is bullshit. I'm not your fucking sacrificial lamb.
The US is a rigged system, if you don't go for the lesser of two evils you get trump again.
Then there were the accelerationists: saying they wanted to see the system collapse by voting in republicans. Well 2016 was a long time ago and the only things that "collapsed" were abortion rights, and the supreme Court getting stuffed, good job guys.
It's all so stupid.
Things don't have to get worse for them to get better.
Things can get worse without ever getting better.
Voting isn't an act which precludes taking other actions.
I can't personally vote for someone actively committing genocide, not even to keep the other person, who also wants to commit genocide, out.
As your system is rigged your choices for affecting outcomes for the better are:
Vote for the lesser of two evils.
Armed revolution.
If you are not actively pursuing either of these, then someone else is making the choice for you.
Abstaining due to a moral objection to the choice presented without seeking a way to dismantle the broken system that locks that choice is hypocrisy.
Quote from: Pergamos on February 08, 2024, 06:13:30 PMI can't personally vote for someone actively committing genocide, not even to keep the other person, who also wants to commit genocide, out.
In the context of this thread, the choice presented is voting against the person who wants to kill you, or not voting at all.
How fucking tone-deaf are you?
"If you don't vote, you vote for the Nazis." - German proverb.
Yes, no political party fully supports my views, but some of them want to kill/deport/silence/suppress people I like. So I vote for a party that doesn't want this.
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on February 08, 2024, 07:30:47 PMQuote from: Pergamos on February 08, 2024, 06:13:30 PMI can't personally vote for someone actively committing genocide, not even to keep the other person, who also wants to commit genocide, out.
In the context of this thread, the choice presented is voting against the person who wants to kill you, or not voting at all.
How fucking tone-deaf are you?
very, I certainly don't condemn your choice, it's still a choice to support genocide. Supporting genocide in the interest of self preservation, when there's not an option to stop the genocide is completely understandable.
Quote from: Pergamos on February 08, 2024, 08:46:31 PMvery, I certainly don't condemn your choice, it's still a choice to support genocide.
Bullshit. If I'm a vegetarian, and both candidates eat meat, voting for one of them isn't a choice to support meat-eating.
You select who to vote for based on the differences between the candidates, not what they have in common. If you don't vote, then you're saying that the differences between them don't matter.
Let's say you have a choice between voting between two of the worst specimens of humanity, who have identical policies in almost every respect, but one will load the supreme court with judges who toss out Roe v. Wade, and the other wants to protect abortion rights.
If you don't vote, that would be a declaration that you don't support women's rights. Nothing else.
Nobody is going to pat you on the head and praise you for not voting for either of the two monsters when you sit back and let the
worse monster win unimpeded. Not voting doesn't keep the monsters out, and it doesn't give you the moral high ground. It makes you a moral coward.
You don't like the choices? Do something about it
after you've voted. Or before. But like the Würfel said, if you don't vote against the nazis, you voted for them.
Why even pay attention to politics in the first place? It's a game...a distraction. You cannot affect it. You cannot change it. You cannot be a true part of it unless you become it.
You might find a lot less stress in your life if you simply ignore all the external stimuli that is being forcibly pressed upon you. That's also part of the game.
Turn it off...turn it all off. The social media, the news, the phone, the tv. That is all virtual reality.
Be no part of it.
Quote from: Finnius on February 08, 2024, 11:45:41 PMYou might find a lot less stress in your life if you simply ignore all the external stimuli that is being forcibly pressed upon you.
Hey.
Shit-for-brains new person.
This thread is specifically about the kind of politics that kills people. If you're one of their "undesirables", you can't opt out of being beaten, imprisoned, or killed.
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on February 09, 2024, 12:24:55 AMQuote from: Finnius on February 08, 2024, 11:45:41 PMYou might find a lot less stress in your life if you simply ignore all the external stimuli that is being forcibly pressed upon you.
Hey.
Shit-for-brains new person.
This thread is specifically about the kind of politics that kills people. If you're one of their "undesirables", you can't opt out of being beaten, imprisoned, or killed.
1. Can I get my forum tag to say "Shit-for-brains new person."? I like it.
2. When was the last time you were beaten, imprisoned, or killed by your government? Maybe try it before shooting your mouth off. I will certainly be more impressed. You need some slack...jumping immediately and angrily on someone for posting an opinion just shows me how your progamming works. Fnord.
3. I repeat...it's a game designed to keep you in fear/anger/unstability. You just proved my point.
Quote from: Finnius on February 08, 2024, 11:45:41 PMWhy even pay attention to politics in the first place? It's a game...a distraction. You cannot affect it. You cannot change it. You cannot be a true part of it unless you become it.
You might find a lot less stress in your life if you simply ignore all the external stimuli that is being forcibly pressed upon you. That's also part of the game.
Turn it off...turn it all off. The social media, the news, the phone, the tv. That is all virtual reality.
Be no part of it.
I don't think I can just ignore the fucking government and the laws they put in place
Quote from: Finnius on February 09, 2024, 12:52:14 AM1. Can I get my forum tag to say "Shit-for-brains new person."? I like it.
You don't need my permission.
Quote2. When was the last time you were beaten, imprisoned, or killed by your government? Maybe try it before shooting your mouth off. I will certainly be more impressed. You need some slack...jumping immediately and angrily on someone for posting an opinion just shows me how your progamming works.
The original poster of this thread, and others like them, are literally in fear for their lives, some having difficulty with day-to-day survival, and you just wandered in with some moronic "it's all just a game" nonsense. This isn't some hypothetical news-program talking point you're dismissing here, it's
real people.
Do you think atrocities being committed by governments are pure fictions invented to manipulate the masses? Do you think someone needs to suffer personally in order to care about how other people may be harmed by political policy?
You're either a moderately amusing troll, or a really horrible person.
Quote3. I repeat...it's a game designed to keep you in fear/anger/unstability. You just proved my point.
Perhaps one day it will occur to you that somewhere beyond the vast morass of propaganda and social manipulation there are actually some human beings, and maybe we should treat them as more than just a game.
My last post in this ridiculous thread (yaaa):
Good Morning Spectators! Today we will be taking the following phrase -
"The original poster of this thread, and others like them, are literally in fear for their lives, some having difficulty with day-to-day survival,..." (thank you cno for supplying this)
- and having 2 widely different groups duke it out and see which group this phrase REALLY should apply to. Winner gets the Title and Belt.
"In this corner (wearing the latest fashions from Hot Topic/Old Navy/Walmart) we have THE LDD's !
And in this corner (wearing clothes worn for months at a time) we have Anne Frank and her family !
Let's have a nice clean fight here."
(a gong sounds)
Round 1 - Housing
...and the LDD's come out swinging! Those that have to share an apartment or live in a school dorm are bemoaning the lack of privacy and smaller spaces. The Franks take it hard on the chin, having their own business and comfortable home in Amsterdam. The other LDD's with nice apartments/houses stand on the sidelines...cheering their mates. I do see the LDD's that still live with their parents...rent-free...slowly shuffling back behind the others. I guess the strategy is to keep them fresh for later rounds. BUT WAIT...Ladies and Gentlemen! I have just received word that Margot Frank has been ordered to report to a labour camp, and faces arrest for non-compliance. The family takes a quick huddle and decides to go into hiding, in a secret room hidden in Otto's business. It appears they have heard about the nazi roundups/ghettos/deportations. They BREAK THE LAW and flee...becoming homeless. Piledriver to the LDD team! The LDD try to recover, citing right-winger blog posts and words of 'extermination' but the referees quickly agree that words are not the same as actions. And the first round ends with the gong.
Round 2 - Employment
...and the LDD's come out swinging! They cite discrimination in the work environment. The Franks seem to be holding their own...citing the same. It's toe-to-toe here right now. But then...OUT OF NOWHERE...the Franks mention that the only job they can get is at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp...while the LDDs can possibly work ANYWHERE. A Walmart. A Starbucks. A Waffle-house. A trucking company. Sunglass Hut. That's 5 quick jabs by the Franks. The referee breaks it up...blood is starting to flow. The ref wisely stops the pummelling. The gong ends round 2.
Round 3 - Ease of Access and Food
...and the LDD's come out swinging! They start with fear in the streets of war-torn USA (circa 2024). They mention bigotry, slander, hateful remarks, stares at the local "Whole Foods". The Franks take it all in stride...mentioning no access to food other than what sypathizers smuggle to them. Describing the booted military and soldiers, rifle and dog in hand every few blocks...demanding the correct paperwork or ID to simply walk down the street or enter an establishment in war-torn Europe (circa 1943-44) To be caught without such papers means a trip to the trainstation, onto a cattle-car...destination Auschwitz-Birkenau...for free showers or slow starvation, disease and death. The LDD cannot match this brutal onslaught. NO armed guards in the streets of the USA. NO mandatory roadblock checks for unsavory undesirables here. Apparently The LDD have a warped...if not psychotically unrealistic idea of what FEAR really means. The reverberating vibrations of the gong pierces the crowd...silencing the round
Final Round - Communication
Unfortunately the Frank family is murdered. No communication possible. Really. Reality.
All the LDD can do is post on Facebook, Twitter, and other forums...hoping for 'likes' and shows of support for their overbloated, imagined, horrific view of their world. Really. Unreality.
And the Winner is _____________________ !
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on February 08, 2024, 10:01:57 PMQuote from: Pergamos on February 08, 2024, 08:46:31 PMvery, I certainly don't condemn your choice, it's still a choice to support genocide.
Bullshit. If I'm a vegetarian, and both candidates eat meat, voting for one of them isn't a choice to support meat-eating.
You select who to vote for based on the differences between the candidates, not what they have in common. If you don't vote, then you're saying that the differences between them don't matter.
Let's say you have a choice between voting between two of the worst specimens of humanity, who have identical policies in almost every respect, but one will load the supreme court with judges who toss out Roe v. Wade, and the other wants to protect abortion rights.
If you don't vote, that would be a declaration that you don't support women's rights. Nothing else.
Nobody is going to pat you on the head and praise you for not voting for either of the two monsters when you sit back and let the worse monster win unimpeded. Not voting doesn't keep the monsters out, and it doesn't give you the moral high ground. It makes you a moral coward.
You don't like the choices? Do something about it after you've voted. Or before. But like the Würfel said, if you don't vote against the nazis, you voted for them.
Not the mention the fact that there is no way Trump wouldn't be worse for Palestine. He wouldn't even do the basic "please follow international law" shit, he'd let Palestine be leveled entirely.
Quote from: Finnius on February 09, 2024, 02:03:46 PMMy last post in this ridiculous thread (yaaa):
Good Morning Spectators! Today we will be taking the following phrase -
"The original poster of this thread, and others like them, are literally in fear for their lives, some having difficulty with day-to-day survival,..." (thank you cno for supplying this)
- and having 2 widely different groups duke it out and see which group this phrase REALLY should apply to. Winner gets the Title and Belt.
"In this corner (wearing the latest fashions from Hot Topic/Old Navy/Walmart) we have THE LDD's !
And in this corner (wearing clothes worn for months at a time) we have Anne Frank and her family !
Let's have a nice clean fight here."
(a gong sounds)
Round 1 - Housing
...and the LDD's come out swinging! Those that have to share an apartment or live in a school dorm are bemoaning the lack of privacy and smaller spaces. The Franks take it hard on the chin, having their own business and comfortable home in Amsterdam. The other LDD's with nice apartments/houses stand on the sidelines...cheering their mates. I do see the LDD's that still live with their parents...rent-free...slowly shuffling back behind the others. I guess the strategy is to keep them fresh for later rounds. BUT WAIT...Ladies and Gentlemen! I have just received word that Margot Frank has been ordered to report to a labour camp, and faces arrest for non-compliance. The family takes a quick huddle and decides to go into hiding, in a secret room hidden in Otto's business. It appears they have heard about the nazi roundups/ghettos/deportations. They BREAK THE LAW and flee...becoming homeless. Piledriver to the LDD team! The LDD try to recover, citing right-winger blog posts and words of 'extermination' but the referees quickly agree that words are not the same as actions. And the first round ends with the gong.
Round 2 - Employment
...and the LDD's come out swinging! They cite discrimination in the work environment. The Franks seem to be holding their own...citing the same. It's toe-to-toe here right now. But then...OUT OF NOWHERE...the Franks mention that the only job they can get is at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp...while the LDDs can possibly work ANYWHERE. A Walmart. A Starbucks. A Waffle-house. A trucking company. Sunglass Hut. That's 5 quick jabs by the Franks. The referee breaks it up...blood is starting to flow. The ref wisely stops the pummelling. The gong ends round 2.
Round 3 - Ease of Access and Food
...and the LDD's come out swinging! They start with fear in the streets of war-torn USA (circa 2024). They mention bigotry, slander, hateful remarks, stares at the local "Whole Foods". The Franks take it all in stride...mentioning no access to food other than what sypathizers smuggle to them. Describing the booted military and soldiers, rifle and dog in hand every few blocks...demanding the correct paperwork or ID to simply walk down the street or enter an establishment in war-torn Europe (circa 1943-44) To be caught without such papers means a trip to the trainstation, onto a cattle-car...destination Auschwitz-Birkenau...for free showers or slow starvation, disease and death. The LDD cannot match this brutal onslaught. NO armed guards in the streets of the USA. NO mandatory roadblock checks for unsavory undesirables here. Apparently The LDD have a warped...if not psychotically unrealistic idea of what FEAR really means. The reverberating vibrations of the gong pierces the crowd...silencing the round
Final Round - Communication
Unfortunately the Frank family is murdered. No communication possible. Really. Reality.
All the LDD can do is post on Facebook, Twitter, and other forums...hoping for 'likes' and shows of support for their overbloated, imagined, horrific view of their world. Really. Unreality.
And the Winner is _____________________ !
I take it you've never had
1) your access to medicine legally challenge
2)your access to bathrooms legally challenged
3)your ability to exist in public spaces legally challenged
Unless you're saying nobody is allowed to be upset by politics ever unless its literally the holocaust.
Quote from: QuestionsTheSoil on February 09, 2024, 03:28:30 PMQuote from: chaotic neutral observer on February 08, 2024, 10:01:57 PMQuote from: Pergamos on February 08, 2024, 08:46:31 PMvery, I certainly don't condemn your choice, it's still a choice to support genocide.
Bullshit. If I'm a vegetarian, and both candidates eat meat, voting for one of them isn't a choice to support meat-eating.
You select who to vote for based on the differences between the candidates, not what they have in common. If you don't vote, then you're saying that the differences between them don't matter.
Let's say you have a choice between voting between two of the worst specimens of humanity, who have identical policies in almost every respect, but one will load the supreme court with judges who toss out Roe v. Wade, and the other wants to protect abortion rights.
If you don't vote, that would be a declaration that you don't support women's rights. Nothing else.
Nobody is going to pat you on the head and praise you for not voting for either of the two monsters when you sit back and let the worse monster win unimpeded. Not voting doesn't keep the monsters out, and it doesn't give you the moral high ground. It makes you a moral coward.
You don't like the choices? Do something about it after you've voted. Or before. But like the Würfel said, if you don't vote against the nazis, you voted for them.
Not the mention the fact that there is no way Trump wouldn't be worse for Palestine. He wouldn't even do the basic "please follow international law" shit, he'd let Palestine be leveled entirely.
Gaza is currently being leveled, entirely. When international law asked for that to stop Biden withdrew funding from the UN relief agency trying to feed Palestinians. I can't see Trump doing any worse, and based on his complete incompetence when it comes to things like his border wall, or his Muslim Ban I can see things getting a lot better for Palestinians with him in charge, not because he's a better person, but because he is a less competent bad person.
I have had to beg up money for food for years on end now. I have had actual scurvy three times in the past three years. I have chronic malnutrition of so many forms that it's impossible to tell what is health problems (intrinsic) and what's just malnutrition.
I cannot find work for anything. My partner got a job at Walmart and is about to lose it because we caught COVID, and they want medical documentation that she has COVID while we have no healthcare nor money to get that proof, or they deny her FMLA claim and she gets fired.
We will guaranteed be homeless in March, as a result. We won't have rent because we pay the outrageous healthcare costs, or we won't have rent because we don't and she loses her job.
I have been homeless for most of my adult life. While homeless I have been assaulted, sometimes sexually and sometimes physically, by cops, by bigots, by random passersby. I have the legal protections of an acorn, or a piece of litter: no one cares what happens, so long as I'm out of sight.
Trans people are being genocided. We're being legislated out of existence in multiple states, where existing becomes a crime. Multiple high profile politicians have said that we should just be killed. They have the power and the support to get away with doing that, turning the existing-while-trans crimes into capital offenses.
I'm Jewish. I know of which I speak on genocide.
Finnius, I sincerely hope you suffer like I've suffered. I want you to wish for release. I want you to feel the churn between knowing that death is escape, but feeling that the human body is an animal devised over millions of years of skin-of-the-teeth survival, by any means necessary, against all odds. I want you to start to bleed out after being stabbed and watch everyone walk by giving your screaming, bloody body looks like could you keep it the fuck down? We're on our way to work, here. You're a disgrace. Die where we don't have to look at it.
Quote from: Finnius on February 09, 2024, 02:03:46 PMMy last post in this ridiculous thread (yaaa):
Good Morning Spectators! Today we will be taking the following phrase -
"The original poster of this thread, and others like them, are literally in fear for their lives, some having difficulty with day-to-day survival,..." (thank you cno for supplying this)
- and having 2 widely different groups duke it out and see which group this phrase REALLY should apply to. Winner gets the Title and Belt.
[snip]
You put a lot of text into that straw man. I skimmed past most of it, I've had enough of Ayn Rand's form of didacticism to last a lifetime.
You're exactly the kind of person who, in the early 1930s in Germany, would have been saying "See, the Jews don't have it so bad!" while sitting in your comfortable armchair, enjoying the fruits of nascent fascism.
Funny thing? You were wrong. I don't browse twitter or facebook. And my chair is actually pretty comfortable. But when people say they're in trouble, I don't use my privilege to mock them and tell them it's not so bad.
I try listening first.