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Or, don't, because they stand pretty well as individual poems.

Thanks! Some really are just more like structured fragments of thought than actual poems, but I consider several of them complete. Others I might yet expand on. Poems are something that I do, or perhaps poems happen to me, but I'm no poet.

Naw, that does make you a poet, especially if poems happen to you and feel you need to keep them.

Huh. I'll accept your definition. I didn't used to feel the need to keep them, but things changed. When I was much younger I used to write them as a way to vent profoundly negative emotions and then would burn them. I literally had no desire to keep the work, it was often QUITE hateful, and the destruction did help considerably.

For me it was not entirely dissimilar to prayer. Something like telling God off or voicing dissent I had no ability to act on and that was just between me and God anyway. I ended the practice one day and that was pretty much that with a few exceptions not intentionally destroyed, but also not exactly cherished or kept and now lost.

Then it just started happening sometime late in 2013 again, but I don't know what exactly triggered it nor the desire to keep them. Having a smartphone for the first time and ability to jot things down at will was a definite factor, but not the cause I think. The muse, whatever it is in me, seems fickle, and I'm not exactly into the mindset, practice, or self image of "poet". I'll just keep doing what I've been doing, waiting and writing as the urge and opportunity coincide.


Then there's THIS one.

It's writing has been a whole different creature from these here ITT. The urge and thoughts never quite seem to leave me, but I'm more than just a bit hesitant and very stubborn about it. I'll inevitably return to the writing of the poetry, but I'm not sure when I'll be ready. I'm not even sure why I don't "feel ready".

Or, don't, because they stand pretty well as individual poems.

Thanks! Some really are just more like structured fragments of thought than actual poems, but I consider several of them complete. Others I might yet expand on. Poems are something that I do, or perhaps poems happen to me, but I'm no poet.

You know, theoretically you could always jam these fragments together into a single song. That's how John Lennon wrote I am the Walrus.

Yeah, but they're very different thoughts. I'm much more inclined to sing than to write. Some folks consider me a damn good singer. I don't get out much lately, but a good jam session or karaoke and a bit of booze is better than church to me. Music reminds me of something, sparks a nameless nostalgia for a place I don't recall ever being. Then I get back to work.

I remember seeing a singular thing called ballpipe. That could settle the question of Spicy Brown's mustardly honor.


Also... now that General Tso's is in a sammich why stop there? You could add a few carrot sticks and put it in a wrap, or add the rice and go full burrito. General Tso's chicken burrito. Like the sound of it... now I'm REALLY hungry.

That, right there, is the future I was promised.

They may cry of you "barbarian", but you're really just ahead of the curve.

I remember seeing a singular thing called ballpipe. That could settle the question of Spicy Brown's mustardly honor.


Also... now that General Tso's is in a sammich why stop there? You could add a few carrot sticks and put it in a wrap, or add the rice and go full burrito. General Tso's chicken burrito. Like the sound of it... now I'm REALLY hungry.

I hate human beings today. I'm not sure how to even function, because I hate them so much.

Was it something specific that the humans did recently?

It would definitely be interesting.  If I were advising the Republicans, I'd suggest they try and focus on a social conservatism that is ethnically inclusive, but religiously derived.  That kind of message could allow them to capture significant black and latino votes, not to mention possibly even win back the Muslim vote (if they toned down the explicitly Christian appeal).

However, given the prominence with which the term "cuckservative" is being used, it seems if anything they're retreating into race-based psychosexual panic of the most hysterical kind.

They severely missed the boat in terms of actually using their religious platform to their best advantage. If they had gone with racial and cultural inclusiveness, they could have the black, the Latino, a lot of the Asian, and possibly even the moderate Muslim vote. They could have left the racists with the historically racist Democrats, and nobody but the rich would be getting abortions or birth control.

It's really for the best that they're stupid, I guess.

I wonder if Colin Powell is interested in running. As a prez candidate or even running mate (though VP would be less ideal) he might be able to bridge the racial gaps, "be strong" on military and intelligence, restore credibility to the Republicans, and make for 2 nonwhite executive elections in a row. Republicans could even intentionally and overtly suggest comparison to promote the idea.

Colin Powell could save the Republican Party and The US, but he's not running.
I'd vote for him.

That's an interesting proposition. I imagine a Powell presidency wouldn't be much different from a Clinton presidency on a practical level, but it could have the long-term effect of fostering greater tolerance within the Republican party. Colin Powell himself seems like a perfectly reasonable conservative, one who looks positively centrist by today's standards. Someone with a preference for low taxes, strong military, and small government, but not a suicidally ideological preference. It could pull them back from the brink while stripping them of the qualities that make them so repellent at present.

Sanders vs. Powell 2012: No matter who wins, we win.

At this point he'd be a no brainer just because he'd be the only one who is not batshit crazy in some sense or another. It was just a thought that struck me. He was the only person in the Bush jr. Administration that I really liked and believed wanted the best for the nation, but was not the ultimate shot caller and did his best with the hand he had.

It would definitely be interesting.  If I were advising the Republicans, I'd suggest they try and focus on a social conservatism that is ethnically inclusive, but religiously derived.  That kind of message could allow them to capture significant black and latino votes, not to mention possibly even win back the Muslim vote (if they toned down the explicitly Christian appeal).

However, given the prominence with which the term "cuckservative" is being used, it seems if anything they're retreating into race-based psychosexual panic of the most hysterical kind.

They severely missed the boat in terms of actually using their religious platform to their best advantage. If they had gone with racial and cultural inclusiveness, they could have the black, the Latino, a lot of the Asian, and possibly even the moderate Muslim vote. They could have left the racists with the historically racist Democrats, and nobody but the rich would be getting abortions or birth control.

It's really for the best that they're stupid, I guess.

I wonder if Colin Powell is interested in running. As a prez candidate or even running mate (though VP would be less ideal) he might be able to bridge the racial gaps, "be strong" on military and intelligence, restore credibility to the Republicans, and make for 2 nonwhite executive elections in a row. Republicans could even intentionally and overtly suggest comparison to promote the idea.

Colin Powell could save the Republican Party and The US, but he's not running.
I'd vote for him.

Powell will never run, because his wife has some mental health issues, and he won't put her through that.  He's made that absolutely clear over the last few election cycles.

Also, he's more than a little horrified at the moment, by his own admission.

Yeah I figured if he could be he would be. I'm sorry to hear that his wife is unwell.

The whole "clowncar" thing is starting to freak me out. Like it's a little TOO apt.
Last time Trump was running I made the joke in a stand up bit about fortune telling something like

"and with the election of The Trump a clear signal will be given of the end of the age of reason"

Now he's trying again and doing better in terms of polls by playing UP his atrocious and demeaning demeanor. We're fucked.

What makes me different from animals is that I can fuck up in ways that would WILL doom any MANY other species to extinction.

Not an FTFY, just expressing a perspective jolt I had when I read that.


I think that this is the big difference. Most species are only inimical to a small and very specific set of other species, and rarely an existential threat to those species. Even the most vicious microbes are generally only a threat to a closed set of certain types of creatures. Humans can kill pretty much anything on earth, and our abilities of reason and to directly manipulate the environment have reached a point where we could kill practically everything.

I know that this isn't a true difference biologically, but if there's anything beyond biology to our being it's terrifically deadly and able to leverage our biology and mental capacity to change things no other species can, whether or not we should.

It would definitely be interesting.  If I were advising the Republicans, I'd suggest they try and focus on a social conservatism that is ethnically inclusive, but religiously derived.  That kind of message could allow them to capture significant black and latino votes, not to mention possibly even win back the Muslim vote (if they toned down the explicitly Christian appeal).

However, given the prominence with which the term "cuckservative" is being used, it seems if anything they're retreating into race-based psychosexual panic of the most hysterical kind.

They severely missed the boat in terms of actually using their religious platform to their best advantage. If they had gone with racial and cultural inclusiveness, they could have the black, the Latino, a lot of the Asian, and possibly even the moderate Muslim vote. They could have left the racists with the historically racist Democrats, and nobody but the rich would be getting abortions or birth control.

It's really for the best that they're stupid, I guess.

I wonder if Colin Powell is interested in running. As a prez candidate or even running mate (though VP would be less ideal) he might be able to bridge the racial gaps, "be strong" on military and intelligence, restore credibility to the Republicans, and make for 2 nonwhite executive elections in a row. Republicans could even intentionally and overtly suggest comparison to promote the idea.

Colin Powell could save the Republican Party and The US, but he's not running.
I'd vote for him.

So, tonight, while bartending, a wine glass flew off its rack to the floor, untouched. I was six feet away, and nobody else was behind the bar. The four people sitting at the bar all saw the same thing I did, apparently.

Not suggesting anything other than that it was fucking weird.

There were reasonable explanations earlier ITT given and I'd go with those... as long as things stay all reasonable.

If it happens 2 more times under diverse circumstances, things flying around untouched, then just maybe take that advice from Howl about NOT asking what it wants seriously, salt the bar, doors, windows, and mirrors, and call the Winchester brothers. If patrons wonder what all the salt is about tell them it's extreme tequila shots night.

I'm a handful of pages into the LO thread. Wanted to say that if a Labyrinth vibe was what you were going for you got that and also Pan' Labyrinth notes to boot.

As a storyteller I'm consistently awed by your work.  LO, though only 1/16 or so through the thread, is some of the best I've yet seen!

MY SON IS COMING HOME ON FRIDAY NIGHT!



I have him for 14 days, then I don't see him again for a year.

Glad to hear sir!

Also thanks much for the link to the LO thread. I sincerely hope publication of your works goes excellently for you and causes an appropriate number of of internal bleeds in the general populace.

Sometimes I get hung up on a thread here @PD, slowly absorbing info and pondering whether or not I have relevant input, and this has definitely been one.

Not sure I should chime in, but I'm gonna because the economic and racial issues are quite intertwined but not the exact same thing and also I begin to suspect that other than Nigel I may have significantly greater experience than many here with the good and bad alike in Black culture and can certainly state that I've seen the prejudice mechanics in action and even counted upon them on some few occasions in my life. Notably to keep Black, and other minority, friends out of jail or needless arrest, but no all my deeds are laudable or fair minded or just. If someone draws from me a need to kick them under a bus, under they go.
This has not been an issue for a very long time and I very much hope to keep it so.

Just to be clear the following draws from my subjective experiences and observations of prejudiced racial attitudes. It is what it is, but what it is not is an attempt to offend or put anybody down. I've lived in the stew of racial strife my whole life and my hometown is a special case of ongoing tensions faced openly and resulting in understanding and compromise. This doesn't mean that the tension is going away any time soon.

Nigel is, as one might guess, totally correct about the very strong religious and conservative tendency in Black culture. It might, just might, be stronger than in White culture, certainly by proportion. I can attest that within my experience their churches are quite a bit more cohesive and often the word of a trusted minister or elder is better able to exert greater influence for good or ill. This tendency does reinforce a certain prejudice common to conservative church-goers against homosexuals. Being Black is hard and unfair, being also gay and male can be nightmarish. Note that this is not AT ALL a hard rule, but a strong and consistent tendency is undeniable in my experience.

It bears mention, because the "Liberal Black" is just another stereotype and not even a particularly realistic one. There's a weird assumption among the more ignorant Whites that all minorities cling together and just freaking love each other. This is probably because the Whites in question don't get, and often don't at all desire, much multi-racial exposure. The "I don't hate those people but..." mentality is extremely common, a certain willful ignorance even more so. But enough about whitey for now.

Where this comes relevant to the discussion at hand is directly related to the BLM movement and Mr. Sanders' reaction to the first of BLM's protests, as I saw it. Mr. Sanders tried to have his say over voices he didn't fully understand, couldn't fully understand because he might be a lot of things but Black isn't one of them. He stood against the fury of it and did his best to stick to his message, to what he knows. This was perhaps not optimal, but not a bad response to a disruption under normal circumstances.

Problem was this was not normal circumstances. Those voices were from people that have an immediate and terribly deadly problem that they NEED to see addressed with due urgency, not diverted to discourse on root causes and long term solutions. Sanders didn't GET IT, but I understand he's trying like hell to and that's far more than ANY other candidate currently running will do. They'll search for a talking point or an ally to act as a mouthpiece maybe, but not really try to understand in an experiential sense. He'll never fully understand because he's pretty darn far from the street level, blood and concrete, shit and Whiter than a mayonnaise sandwich on Wonderbread, but he's BLM's best shot and it certainly got him listening and spread their message. It's a good message about very bad problems.

Those problems go very deep indeed, but I need some sleep and would like some feedback before I decide whether or not to keep going here.

If this works as well as I expect it will, I will have the first third of Little Orange up by a week from tomorrow, with the other two thirds coming at one/week.  The "nuclear option" editing style pretty much handled all the glitches (so far).  The majority of the problems were caused by the documents being done in several different formats first (here, then Paes putting it in word, then my version of word, etc).

Basically, you open it in wordpad, save it as text only/no formatting, and then put it back in Word.  Then you assign a font size & type, and re-add any bolding or italics, then assign chapter headings, then pics, then submit.

Nigel, I will contact you with a coupon code for LO, which has been changed to "Little Orange in the Underground".  The code works only at the smashwords site, but you can download from there to nook, kindle, or PC/tablet.

This sounds dope! Please use DS2015 to promo if you're so inclined. I remember the "My Girl Friday" stuff that I read, not heard of "Little Orange in the Underground" at all. Also there was some mention of "MSY", if I recall correctly "A Million Screaming Yahoos", any intent to publish that?

Very glad to hear you've solved your formatting issues.

I am fairly certain that the .pdf is freely distributable. Here's a cool interview with the author:

http://www.wired.com/2013/10/codex-seraphinianus-interview/

That was a cool interview! Sounds like a really neat person. I like the idea of "pushing beyond Google". There's a big gap between the info that the Internet is able to present and the actual totality of available experience.