Here's two of them, the other one is developing.
http://hiphopwired.com/2015/10/09/shootings-texas-southern-university-northern-arizona-university/
I called this shit years ago. This is the new normal.
Fuuuuuuuck
http://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/school-lockdown-oregon-college-shooting/
Good read.
It has to change. I am not sure that the change we need is outside of the schools.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 10, 2015, 03:43:08 AM
It has to change. I am not sure that the change we need is outside of the schools.
Actually, it doesn't have to change. People can get used to anything.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 10, 2015, 05:13:20 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 10, 2015, 03:43:08 AM
It has to change. I am not sure that the change we need is outside of the schools.
Actually, it doesn't have to change. People can get used to anything.
I don't think this is something people can get used to. Everyone is scrambling to stop it in their own way, from gun control, to cops in school, and on some of the gun forums I've been browsing there are a few teachers and students discussing how to conceal carry inside school. Which is a stupid idea, that would increase the number of small argument fueled shootings, but I can see how when someone sees that no one is protecting them, they'd like to protect yourself.
The first time Obama got elected, I was saying that we could expect to see an increase in activity by crazy people with guns, but I'm not sure if that's what this is. All the wacky antics of Oath Keepers, and people going out for ice cream armed to the teeth fit the pattern, but I haven't seen any evidence that people shooting up schools are mad about Obama.
On the other hand, Republicans are always talking about how much they hate them librul college professors, so I dunno.
Quote from: Meunster on October 10, 2015, 06:45:29 AM
I don't think this is something people can get used to. Everyone is scrambling to stop it in their own way, from gun control, to cops in school, and on some of the gun forums I've been browsing there are a few teachers and students discussing how to conceal carry inside school. Which is a stupid idea, that would increase the number of small argument fueled shootings, but I can see how when someone sees that no one is protecting them, they'd like to protect yourself.
Which is to say, people are bitching on social media.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 10, 2015, 05:13:20 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 10, 2015, 03:43:08 AM
It has to change. I am not sure that the change we need is outside of the schools.
Actually, it doesn't have to change. People can get used to anything.
That isn't really true, though. People can get used to a lot, as evidenced by centuries of slavery, but eventually the pressure of threat will reach an explosion point. If people can get used to anything, Black Lives Matter wouldn't exist, people wouldn't be protesting, people wouldn't be angry, and most likely, really, school shootings wouldn't be happening. Because whatever is pushing that pressure would just be something everyone had gotten used to.
I completely don't buy the sexual frustration angle, either. While it's a very facile explanation, it isn't based on anything other than speculation and projection, and doesn't seem to have any historical analogues or really any other support whatsoever. I think it's about powerlessness, authority, and a sense of futility. I think it has something to do with the power and social dynamics inside schools.
I think that some killers have stated that sexual frustration is part of the motivation for them (that one that all the MRA's were crowing about who wrote those misogynistic manifestos being one example) and I think it is worth taking their word on that. His writing made it clear that the sexual frustration was very tightly tied up with powerlessness though. I remember being in school and feeling quite powerless and it looks like it has only gotten worse. College wasn't so bad though and a lot of these shootings are happening at colleges.
As a child, I remember one of my favorite July 4th fireworks was the diminutive burning school-house. Though simply a ritual, there was something real about sharing that experience with others. Grown-ups reminiscing about how much they enjoyed that when they were younger made me feel understood.
Quote from: Pergamos on October 10, 2015, 07:07:02 PM
I think that some killers have stated that sexual frustration is part of the motivation for them (that one that all the MRA's were crowing about who wrote those misogynistic manifestos being one example) and I think it is worth taking their word on that. His writing made it clear that the sexual frustration was very tightly tied up with powerlessness though. I remember being in school and feeling quite powerless and it looks like it has only gotten worse. College wasn't so bad though and a lot of these shootings are happening at colleges.
I suspect you must be talking about Elliott Rodger. This article discusses his case with regards to sexual frustration quite well https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201405/sex-madness-and-mass-murder-in-santa-barbara
It is certainly well worth noting that the majority of adolescents, male and female, are sexually frustrated, many well into their college years, making it in itself a wholly inadequate explanation, however compelling it feels from an "I can relate to that" standpoint. It also implies that simply not getting laid is enough to make young men into mass murderers, and I would certainly like to give men more credit than that.
On the other hand, loneliness, isolation, powerlessness and rejection on a more holistic level are far more plausible as primary contributing factors.
Are these increasing in frequency or does it just seem that way as there's been several over the last couple of weeks?
Quote from: Faust on October 10, 2015, 10:29:11 PM
Are these increasing in frequency or does it just seem that way as there's been several over the last couple of weeks?
They are increasing in frequency.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 10, 2015, 09:47:27 PM
It is certainly well worth noting that the majority of adolescents, male and female, are sexually frustrated, many well into their college years, making it in itself a wholly inadequate explanation, however compelling it feels from an "I can relate to that" standpoint. It also implies that simply not getting laid is enough to make young men into mass murderers, and I would certainly like to give men more credit than that.
On the other hand, loneliness, isolation, powerlessness and rejection on a more holistic level are far more plausible as primary contributing factors.
Yeah. I'm also not keen on a narrative that implies that girls need to be getting boys laid or the school will get shot up.
The sexual fustration extending from highschool well into college thing is interesting.
That plus a culture that encourages arrested development, deminished responsibility, while simultanously pushing that they are the protagonist...
Its going to increase, further.
I've expressed my views on gun ownership in the past, I see no valid reasons to own one and want to see reduction of availability. But I dont think it would make much difference in these cases.
Something cultural is going to have to change or its going to get worse.
Quote from: Faust on October 10, 2015, 10:29:11 PM
Are these increasing in frequency or does it just seem that way as there's been several over the last couple of weeks?
This year has been an especially bad year for mass shooting incidents.
Just to add to the list, a 15 year old was arrested for making threats on social media that he would kill the school cheerleaders for not sending him nudes.
Quote from: Cain on October 10, 2015, 10:51:48 PM
This year has been an especially bad year for mass shooting incidents.
Just to add to the list, a 15 year old was arrested for making threats on social media that he would kill the school cheerleaders for not sending him nudes.
If this was in a country where guns are rare, he'd have probably been ignored or ridiculed. It's sad that this kind of infantile threat has to be taken seriously.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 10, 2015, 06:16:48 PM
I completely don't buy the sexual frustration angle, either. While it's a very facile explanation, it isn't based on anything other than speculation and projection, and doesn't seem to have any historical analogues or really any other support whatsoever. I think it's about powerlessness, authority, and a sense of futility. I think it has something to do with the power and social dynamics inside schools.
I'm not sure the sexual angle can really be ruled out.
Malformed rant:
- White males predominantly seem to do this
- Eliot Rodger's explicit comments on being entitled to sex
- Oregon shooter apparently a virgin
- Who really wants to kill anyone when you're still high on sex oxytocins?
- I remember being a horrible little teenager with murder in my heart, and if I hadn't been getting laid, I'm not sure what I may have done with the handgun I smuggled to school one day in my JNCOs.
- In a patriarchal system, women are valuable as sex and status objects. So with the firm depressive belief that you will never have sex or status that you really want and having decided on being a cowardly little bitch that's going to kill himself anyway, you might as well try to score a few Man™ points by killing those assholes at school that ridicule you all the time when they aren't living their perfect, sheltered little lives.
- Sex as a rough indicator of social competency.
- Social competency as a key to your overall happiness as an ape
But there have been people not getting laid for ages. Why this, why now?
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 11, 2015, 05:32:05 AM
But there have been people not getting laid for ages. Why this, why now?
Our society has stopped pretending. You are told by the news and by government officials that you
are in fact a tiny cog in a big machine. You are then told that this is
good, and that you should be not only PROUD of this, but that you should shit all over anyone who feels that being a cog is a bad thing.
America, Cainad, love it or leave it. Your efforts and the efforts of everyone around you flow, however indirectly, OUT to places like Afghanistan and then back IN to places like Raytheon and Goldman Sachs. Your will never get to retire - if you're lucky enough to have a job - and your children will drink filthy water for their entire lives.
And you are told, again, to SUPPORT this as good & right. And lots of people do, they're absolutely frantic about it, and who the fuck knows what these freaks tell themselves before they go to sleep every night.
It's all sick. And I am unsure exactly why it is surprising that sick people are produced by it. Action/reaction, it's how the fucking universe WORKS. "I can't get a date but this can't possibly be MY fault" and "That fucking asshole boss of mine ruins my life but I can't just WALK AWAY" and "I'll be paying off this degree for 35 years, and it qualifies me to make $18.50 per hour HAHAHAHA" and then one day you blast a room full of people at the community college, thus adding to the insane stress levels of every OTHER fucked up unit in the country.
But it makes GREAT media, and devolves quite nicely into the same old fucking 2nd amendment debates that we've been screeching past each other for 70 years.
When I think about shit like this, Cainad, I ask myself "We dropped out of the trees for
this?"
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 10, 2015, 10:37:05 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 10, 2015, 09:47:27 PM
It is certainly well worth noting that the majority of adolescents, male and female, are sexually frustrated, many well into their college years, making it in itself a wholly inadequate explanation, however compelling it feels from an "I can relate to that" standpoint. It also implies that simply not getting laid is enough to make young men into mass murderers, and I would certainly like to give men more credit than that.
On the other hand, loneliness, isolation, powerlessness and rejection on a more holistic level are far more plausible as primary contributing factors.
Yeah. I'm also not keen on a narrative that implies that girls need to be getting boys laid or the school will get shot up.
Yes, also this.
Quote from: N E T on October 11, 2015, 12:32:21 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 10, 2015, 06:16:48 PM
I completely don't buy the sexual frustration angle, either. While it's a very facile explanation, it isn't based on anything other than speculation and projection, and doesn't seem to have any historical analogues or really any other support whatsoever. I think it's about powerlessness, authority, and a sense of futility. I think it has something to do with the power and social dynamics inside schools.
I'm not sure the sexual angle can really be ruled out.
Malformed rant:
- White males predominantly seem to do this
- Eliot Rodger's explicit comments on being entitled to sex
- Oregon shooter apparently a virgin
- Who really wants to kill anyone when you're still high on sex oxytocins?
- I remember being a horrible little teenager with murder in my heart, and if I hadn't been getting laid, I'm not sure what I may have done with the handgun I smuggled to school one day in my JNCOs.
- In a patriarchal system, women are valuable as sex and status objects. So with the firm depressive belief that you will never have sex or status that you really want and having decided on being a cowardly little bitch that's going to kill himself anyway, you might as well try to score a few Man™ points by killing those assholes at school that ridicule you all the time when they aren't living their perfect, sheltered little lives.
- Sex as a rough indicator of social competency.
- Social competency as a key to your overall happiness as an ape
I could see sex being one of the contributing frustrations, but I also think it's important to keep in mind that being unable to find a sexual partner is usually a byproduct of other forms of social incompetency. I really do not think there is a good case for it being the driving factor behind the shootings, even though it is simple and appealing on a gut level for that reason.
In other words, I'm saying that being unable to get laid and the shootings are likely both byproducts of related factors.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 11, 2015, 03:55:55 PM
In other words, I'm saying that being unable to get laid and the shootings are likely both byproducts of related factors.
A combination of a feeling of powerlessness, American gun culture, toxic, aggressive masculinity, and just for shits and giggles, white male privilege?
Galdio B. MKULTRA. Copycats.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 11, 2015, 03:55:55 PM
In other words, I'm saying that being unable to get laid and the shootings are likely both byproducts of related factors.
Can't argue with that.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on October 11, 2015, 05:37:51 PM
Galdio B. MKULTRA. Copycats.
Steven Seagal is engineering mass shootings and then blaming it on the government (http://disinfo.com/2015/10/steven-seagal-thinks-many-mass-shootings-are-engineered-by-the-government/).
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 11, 2015, 04:22:03 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 11, 2015, 03:55:55 PM
In other words, I'm saying that being unable to get laid and the shootings are likely both byproducts of related factors.
A combination of a feeling of powerlessness, American gun culture, toxic, aggressive masculinity, and just for shits and giggles, white male privilege?
The white male privilege may be a more important contributor than most people seem to give it credit for. Since Elliot Rodger has come up as an example, let's refer to him again; his primary distinguishing characteristic was that he
felt entitled to things he wasn't getting. He had good looks and money; America promised him popularity and sex, but he wasn't receiving those things. He was angry at being denied what he believed was his inherent due. Most shooters are middle-class or better; they are angry and thwarted and powerless and believe that they are being denied something that they
are owed, and, most of all, that it is other people's fault.
Quote from: Faust on October 10, 2015, 10:49:53 PM
The sexual fustration extending from highschool well into college thing is interesting.
That plus a culture that encourages arrested development, deminished responsibility, while simultanously pushing that they are the protagonist...
Its going to increase, further.
I've expressed my views on gun ownership in the past, I see no valid reasons to own one and want to see reduction of availability. But I dont think it would make much difference in these cases.
Something cultural is going to have to change or its going to get worse.
Yes. This.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 11, 2015, 03:55:55 PM
In other words, I'm saying that being unable to get laid and the shootings are likely both byproducts of related factors.
I agree. Being sexually frustrated is probably a symptom that acts at least partially as a feedback loop, like scratching an eczema spot: it's not the cause, but it aggravates and perpetuates itself. Maybe there's a symptomatic treatment available, but I don't think that's going to get us where we need to be.
I mean, these people are probably not getting romantic attention because, you know, they are badly socialized and have the kind of mentality that leads to shooting lots of people. Not exactly a winner in the dating scene, at least to my knowledge.
Slightly tangenting, I think the issue of guns is a forgone conclusion in the USA. They're here to stay. The real question is, can we pull through to create a culture in which people can
have their guns but
not wind up in a spiral of crazy that leads to mass murder? Or at least, have them do it less often?
Guns and mental illness have coexisted in this country for a long time too, so I don't think that's a fruitful line of inquiry. Unless, of course, you consider the culture of the USA to be pathological or diseased (which I wouldn't immediately disagree with).
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 11, 2015, 05:51:01 AM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 11, 2015, 05:32:05 AM
But there have been people not getting laid for ages. Why this, why now?
Our society has stopped pretending. You are told by the news and by government officials that you are in fact a tiny cog in a big machine. You are then told that this is good, and that you should be not only PROUD of this, but that you should shit all over anyone who feels that being a cog is a bad thing.
America, Cainad, love it or leave it. Your efforts and the efforts of everyone around you flow, however indirectly, OUT to places like Afghanistan and then back IN to places like Raytheon and Goldman Sachs. Your will never get to retire - if you're lucky enough to have a job - and your children will drink filthy water for their entire lives.
And you are told, again, to SUPPORT this as good & right. And lots of people do, they're absolutely frantic about it, and who the fuck knows what these freaks tell themselves before they go to sleep every night.
It's all sick. And I am unsure exactly why it is surprising that sick people are produced by it. Action/reaction, it's how the fucking universe WORKS. "I can't get a date but this can't possibly be MY fault" and "That fucking asshole boss of mine ruins my life but I can't just WALK AWAY" and "I'll be paying off this degree for 35 years, and it qualifies me to make $18.50 per hour HAHAHAHA" and then one day you blast a room full of people at the community college, thus adding to the insane stress levels of every OTHER fucked up unit in the country.
But it makes GREAT media, and devolves quite nicely into the same old fucking 2nd amendment debates that we've been screeching past each other for 70 years.
When I think about shit like this, Cainad, I ask myself "We dropped out of the trees for this?"
At least we'll die having been entertained.
I seriously dont believe in the sexual frustration aspect and i dont understand why that angle is being played as the primary factor.
Sexual frustration is hard to measure, but considering that all media, advertisement and entertainment use sex as the primary selling factor, it must mean its something systemic. Add to that all the religious nutjobs that think sex is sin and shameful... am i making my point? If sexual frustration was the main factor, why dont we have an epidemic of killer nuns?
I would rather posit the driving factors to be envy, entitlement and a constructed hatred for a specific groupality... I seriously dont have the time and energy to research but this would be my guidelines:
-What does the gunman want to achieve with the shooting?
-Who or what groupality is the gunman targeting?
-Who does the gunman hate?
-Who/what does the gunman idealize/love?
-Was it premeditated or was it a sudden impulse?
-Was the gunman delirious?
-What was the symbolical content of his delirium?
Quote from: The Johnny on October 12, 2015, 12:02:19 AM
I seriously dont believe in the sexual frustration aspect and i dont understand why that angle is being played as the primary factor.
Because its an existing narrative that sells well. "Nice Guys".
Thinking is hard. When something new and scary is happening you can either try your best to sort it out with the data you have, or you can ignore reality and force it to fit your preconceptions. Only one of these behaviours is rewarded. Notice, the main lesson that everyone takes from these shootings is that they are right and that THOSE FUCKERS we all love to hate are in some way responsible. Of course, THOSE FUCKERS are responsible, and by those fuckers I mean Gladio B.
(http://i.imgur.com/2DE75na.jpg)
Quote from: The Johnny on October 12, 2015, 12:02:19 AM
I seriously dont believe in the sexual frustration aspect and i dont understand why that angle is being played as the primary factor.
Sexual frustration is hard to measure, but considering that all media, advertisement and entertainment use sex as the primary selling factor, it must mean its something systemic. Add to that all the religious nutjobs that think sex is sin and shameful... am i making my point? If sexual frustration was the main factor, why dont we have an epidemic of killer nuns?
I would rather posit the driving factors to be envy, entitlement and a constructed hatred for a specific groupality... I seriously dont have the time and energy to research but this would be my guidelines:
-What does the gunman want to achieve with the shooting?
-Who or what groupality is the gunman targeting?
-Who does the gunman hate?
-Who/what does the gunman idealize/love?
-Was it premeditated or was it a sudden impulse?
-Was the gunman delirious?
-What was the symbolical content of his delirium?
While I would generally agree, it could also be argued that the shooter's envy, entitlement and targets were influenced and made more specific by the media he was consuming and the culture he was taking part in.
Unfortunately, the only site we seem to know of him posting on is /r9k/, sadsack central of the internet. The sort of place where they use "cuck" as an insult and actually mean it, or refer to themselves as betas.
Obviously, that's not the only issue, because we can go back to your points about sexual frustration and they still apply (ie; not everyone on /r9k/ is going to shoot up a school. At the very least because it would involve leaving their parents basement, which just aint going to happen).
Knowing this does help us understand what may have helped develop his notion of legitimate targets and supposed greivances, while not actually telling us much about the underlying causes which made him turn to these people and groups and be suspectible to adopting their thinking in the first place, or decide that the best way to deal with them would be violence.
I mean, beyond the MKUltra brainwashing, of course.
I'm guessing there's a lot of contributing factors. Some root and some incidental but there's one that nobody's talking about - advertising.
I don't mean using tits to sell soda, as has already been discussed, I mean sensationalist reporting of school shootings in tabloid media.
Most of us watch these with a mixture of fear and disgust but not the lone weirdo's. If you're living in your moms basement, not getting any tail and/or being bullied or shit and your head is mince, my bet is these reports are a call to arms.
School shootings are on the rise. 3 hour special, after the news. "Not for the faint hearted". Snowball effect in progress...
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 13, 2015, 10:09:46 AM
I'm guessing there's a lot of contributing factors. Some root and some incidental but there's one that nobody's talking about - advertising.
I don't mean using tits to sell soda, as has already been discussed, I mean sensationalist reporting of school shootings in tabloid media.
Most of us watch these with a mixture of fear and disgust but not the lone weirdo's. If you're living in your moms basement, not getting any tail and/or being bullied or shit and your head is mince, my bet is these reports are a call to arms.
School shootings are on the rise. 3 hour special, after the news. "Not for the faint hearted". Snowball effect in progress...
I remember car-chases being the evening entertainment for many in the 90s...
So like, "school shootings" are the new "car-chase" after school special of the 2000's