Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Two vast and trunkless legs of stone => Topic started by: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 18, 2016, 05:27:17 PM

Title: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 18, 2016, 05:27:17 PM
Some people, some people can live their lives in pursuit of happiness. Experiences, accolades, stuff, influence, kids, whatever. There is a thing that will make them happy, and they can feel it and keep it and sustain themselves on it indefinitely. Maybe they don't know what exactly will make them happy, maybe there will be false starts, maybe the luster on their happiness will dull over time, but it is still possible for them.

These people are not generally called to Discordia.

Discordians -- or at least, a subset of Discordians -- cannot be happy with "happy." Discordians are only happy when they're fighting. They fall asleep on vacations and sink into depression when the going is easy. It doesn't matter what a Discordian is fighting, could be an international tickle fetish conspiracy, could be each other, could be the goddess-damned weather. We live and breathe to fight. Not to win, not to make the other guy see the error of his ways, not even for our legacy.

We live in deserts and in frigid coastal towns. We live in environments where our sexuality could get us beaten or killed. We live with axes over our heads, where the sun never shines and the bridges sing every night. This is not an accident.

We can't keep friends worth a damn half the time because we are fueled by fighting and it is exhausting and we burn out and fall down and get back up again only to fight. We get kicked out of parties and singled out in the office and can't stand Thanksgiving because everyone keeps telling us we're not supposed to fight and they don't know that they're telling a fish to stay out of the water, that without the fighting we'll shrivel up and die. And we don't fight with fists half the time but with words and song and art and poetry and the hunch of our shoulders and the occasional well placed boot.

As long as we're fighting we can live. Happiness just isn't enough.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Salty on October 18, 2016, 05:33:14 PM
Yes. All of this. Mittens and stuff.

When happiness comes creeping along, like a worn down, broken, stinking ice cream truck, it's hard not to throw things at it.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: MithridatesXXIII on October 18, 2016, 09:04:12 PM
Great post tentacle face. It reminds me of this. Appropriate if the Pines are where we live: in conflict. Or if the woman is Eris, because it's always her.

A nice blues cover by Kurt
https://youtu.be/mcXYz0gtJeM

Where Did You Sleep Last Night
Nirvana
Lyrics
My girl, my girl, don't lie to me
Tell me where did you sleep last night
In the pines, in the pines
Where the sun don't ever shine
I would shiver the whole night through
My girl, my girl, where will you go
I'm going where the cold wind blows
In the pines, in the pines
Where the sun don't ever shine
I would shiver the whole night through
Her husband, was a hard working man
Just about a mile from here
His head was found in a driving wheel
But his body never was found
My girl, my girl, don't lie to me
Tell me where did you sleep last night
In the pines, in the pines
Where the sun don't ever shine
I would shiver the whole night through
My girl, my girl, where will you go
I'm going where the cold wind blows
In the pines, in the pines
Where the sun don't ever shine
I would shiver the whole night through
My girl, my girl, don't lie to me
Tell me where did you sleep last night
In the pines, in the pines
Where the sun don't ever shine
I would shiver the whole night through
My girl, my girl, where will you go
I'm going where the cold wind blows
In the pines, in the pines
Where the sun don't ever shine
I would shiver the whole night through
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on October 19, 2016, 01:12:41 AM
 :kingmeh:
Ah... pity. Poptart confirmed. I really had some hope for this one. That's what I get.



As for what matters ITT. I am sure that the active to strive is part of the NAME of Eris as much as any other sense of such silly things. Silly or not, it's in the EFFORT, or it's noted lack, that the Truth is to be found, and this is in all life and living, like it or not. If you can't keep up... tough nuts for you then. Eris won't be helping you all by herself, and most likely not at all.

She's kinda not into suffering fools..

What's a being to do?
A goddess Who's name
quite nearly means Try
must be hard to please,
and indeed can be.

But if you hear Eris' call and turn away,
none will lay you blame.
Many say that such gray comfort has it's perks.
Except, of course, Her Discordian jerks,
and all those other poor saps that her bull-reddened favor would claim.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Junkenstein on October 19, 2016, 02:25:50 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on October 18, 2016, 05:33:14 PM
Yes. All of this. Mittens and stuff.

When happiness comes creeping along, like a worn down, broken, stinking ice cream truck, it's hard not to throw things at it.

Kinda, but not quite for me.

For me, the fight is an incidental that comes from awkward questions like "Is this truck hygienic?", "What's in that freezer you never open?" or "When was the last time you undertook any maintenance on this van because it looks like a heap of shit".

Sometimes the questions have reasonable answers like "Yes", "It's empty" or "Here are my inspection logs". Most of the time the answers are closer to "Fuck you", "None of your damn business" or "Get the fuck out of the queue, I have customers". When faced with unreasonable answers, it's only fair and morally right to start a long running grudge that spirals beyond all reason or control and makes life as uncomfortable as possible for those continuing to frequent the van.

Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Junkenstein on October 19, 2016, 02:46:51 AM
In the interests of full disclosure, I am involved in 3 blood feuds with Ice cream purveyors.

Fuck those guys. They've all been told where they can shove their fucking cones. With sprinkles.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 19, 2016, 06:32:01 AM
This is so perfect.

I think it could be used as a basis for a 62-question diagnostic questionnaire for Discordianism: "Is Your Score Over 44? Here's Why!"
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 19, 2016, 06:40:05 AM
Personally, I always seem to be chasing happiness. It's elusive. Friendship isn't, so I take refuge in friends as much as I can. I feel lucky to be able to have the happiness of having one of those friends for my partner.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 19, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 19, 2016, 06:40:05 AM
Personally, I always seem to be chasing happiness. It's elusive. Friendship isn't, so I take refuge in friends as much as I can. I feel lucky to be able to have the happiness of having one of those friends for my partner.

The friends part I knew wasn't going to be as relevant, tried to word it in such a way that it wasn't describing a universal symptom but one that comes up from time to time. I have some good friends but fucked if it isn't hard to hold onto them. I'm not sure if I quite nailed the workplace stuff, either.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: LMNO on October 19, 2016, 02:08:57 PM
I personally define it as a search for Joy, which to me is more ecstatic and dangerous than happiness is.  It's also more fleeting.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 19, 2016, 03:20:03 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 19, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 19, 2016, 06:40:05 AM
Personally, I always seem to be chasing happiness. It's elusive. Friendship isn't, so I take refuge in friends as much as I can. I feel lucky to be able to have the happiness of having one of those friends for my partner.

The friends part I knew wasn't going to be as relevant, tried to word it in such a way that it wasn't describing a universal symptom but one that comes up from time to time. I have some good friends but fucked if it isn't hard to hold onto them. I'm not sure if I quite nailed the workplace stuff, either.

I feel like you captured something, though, in a "if you have seven or more of these ten symptoms, you may have Discordianism" sort of way.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 19, 2016, 03:22:37 PM
It also harkens me back to some conversation I had here a long time ago about strife, and how humans need to always be striving against something in order to feel fulfilled. Otherwise we turn into weird, dissatisfied, uncomfortable, entitled assholes, or get depressed.

I know that I always need to feel like I'm pushing on something or I get restless and kinda mean.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on October 19, 2016, 04:56:49 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 19, 2016, 02:08:57 PM
I personally define it as a search for Joy, which to me is more ecstatic and dangerous than happiness is.  It's also more fleeting.

I've sometimes wondered if you might not make a case for joy being a sort of "weaponized" or refined happiness. A form to be cultivated and a product of sorts to be made from the original basis for one's "surplus" happiness. One that can be shared with the like minded as a sort of meme-nutrient perhaps.

It could be seen as a thing worth "doing extra" for. You can be happy with a job, but without joy there's little need or desire to do more than is likely expected and expectable. If something or someone deprives you of it you have effectively been robbed. In a sense it would be the most valuable thing humans are able to make, and by far the most potentially dangerous in abuse. A bunch of GRIN'n Ninnys all hopped up on joy could potentially do just about anything.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 19, 2016, 08:05:49 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 18, 2016, 05:27:17 PM
We live in deserts and in frigid coastal towns. We live in environments where our sexuality could get us beaten or killed. We live with axes over our heads, where the sun never shines and the bridges sing every night. This is not an accident.

Or it never STOPS shining.

QuoteWe can't keep friends worth a damn half the time because we are fueled by fighting and it is exhausting and we burn out and fall down and get back up again only to fight.

Or the fighting just progresses to the point where the precondition for friendship - mutual respect - ceases to exist for one or both parties and then this is demonstrated to the person in question.

Because that's going to happen if you fight long enough.  169% guaranteed.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 19, 2016, 08:15:07 PM
Last winter I was in a bit of a slump and the thing that shook me out of it was the first really bitter cold snap. Like, it's sad and boring when it's just cold enough that nothing's growing and the trees are bare and the grass is brittle and yellowy and the skies are gray and nothing happens. Give me some "so cold you'll seriously get frostbite if you don't cover up," some black ice and freezing rain, give me snow up to my armpits and leaky boots and the buses aren't running. THEN I'll show you what I'm made of. I'll SHOW that fucking weather who's boss.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: hooplala on October 19, 2016, 09:10:09 PM
Yeah, despite what Goldilocks would tell you: medium porridge is the shittiest of the lot.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on October 19, 2016, 10:11:36 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on October 19, 2016, 09:10:09 PM
Yeah, despite what Goldilocks would tell you: medium porridge is the shittiest of the lot.

:lulz: The fairy tales are all damned LIES!
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: NeonWytch on October 20, 2016, 07:18:06 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 19, 2016, 08:15:07 PM
Last winter I was in a bit of a slump and the thing that shook me out of it was the first really bitter cold snap. Like, it's sad and boring when it's just cold enough that nothing's growing and the trees are bare and the grass is brittle and yellowy and the skies are gray and nothing happens. Give me some "so cold you'll seriously get frostbite if you don't cover up," some black ice and freezing rain, give me snow up to my armpits and leaky boots and the buses aren't running. THEN I'll show you what I'm made of. I'll SHOW that fucking weather who's boss.
Oh my god yes.
Give me weather that I have to creatively live around.
Give me temperatures hot enough that I have to tactically reduce clothing cover as much as humanly possible without being arrested.

As for cold, well,
Nothing beats the feeling of biking down a highway at two in the morning with so many scarves on that you can barely see oncoming traffic.   
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 22, 2016, 05:22:57 PM
I like sunny medium nice weather in the low 80's. I like not having to worry about the heating bill. I like it when things are relatively easy on the "basic survival" front.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 22, 2016, 05:28:08 PM
I also like having enough food.

I think that there is a very legitimate class divide in how we respond to and view certain types of adversity. "Survivaling" vs. surviving.

Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: Salty on October 22, 2016, 05:56:22 PM
I, for one, am so God damned happy to no longer be in an environment that is actively trying to kill me all the time. It affords me the time to have panic attacks.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: LMNO on October 22, 2016, 08:31:39 PM
I like no longer being in constant chronic pain.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 23, 2016, 06:32:22 AM
You know what I like?

Not working for Lilly.  It's hard to explain, a year and some later, how bad those 5 months were.  And it's also hard to explain that - as panicky as I was working on my own and trying desperately to find a full time gig - it was still better than working for her, and as worried as I got, quitting that place was one thing I never, ever second-guessed.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on October 23, 2016, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 23, 2016, 06:32:22 AM
You know what I like?

Not working for Lilly.  It's hard to explain, a year and some later, how bad those 5 months were.  And it's also hard to explain that - as panicky as I was working on my own and trying desperately to find a full time gig - it was still better than working for her, and as worried as I got, quitting that place was one thing I never, ever second-guessed.

That's where I'm at 6odd months after I walked. I haven't had a single regret, even as I started spiraling into a horrible depression and had about half of my life support turn out to be shit. Even as I was giving undue ear to the idea of checking out I was proud of 2 things I quit, nicotine  (over 3 years now, a couple blunt-wraps aside) and THOSE FUCKERS. Folks around town tell me a lot of personal stories about themselves or family getting ruined one way or another by their shitty practices and often shittier personnel.

I'm looking for my next thing. Don't know what.
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: NeonWytch on October 24, 2016, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on October 23, 2016, 05:17:05 PM

That's where I'm at 6odd months after I walked. I haven't had a single regret, even as I started spiraling into a horrible depression and had about half of my life support turn out to be shit. Even as I was giving undue ear to the idea of checking out I was proud of 2 things I quit, nicotine  (over 3 years now, a couple blunt-wraps aside) and THOSE FUCKERS. Folks around town tell me a lot of personal stories about themselves or family getting ruined one way or another by their shitty practices and often shittier personnel.

I'm looking for my next thing. Don't know what.
Hey man, good on you for quitting nicotine. That's a hard road. I've been trying to cut down because my meds interact with nicotine in such a way that it severely raises the chance of life-threatening blood clots in the legs. Even after I get past that 3 day hump, there's still the habitual "You're with friends/on break/just ate/on a walk, why aren't you smoking?" impulses, and the whole deadened opiod receptor thing that I have to get used to.

If it's not too personal, did you go cold turkey or did you do nic gum or patches or vape or what?
Title: Re: Discordians Can't Be Happy With Happy
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on October 25, 2016, 03:29:21 PM
Quote from: NeonWytch on October 24, 2016, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on October 23, 2016, 05:17:05 PM

That's where I'm at 6odd months after I walked. I haven't had a single regret, even as I started spiraling into a horrible depression and had about half of my life support turn out to be shit. Even as I was giving undue ear to the idea of checking out I was proud of 2 things I quit, nicotine  (over 3 years now, a couple blunt-wraps aside) and THOSE FUCKERS. Folks around town tell me a lot of personal stories about themselves or family getting ruined one way or another by their shitty practices and often shittier personnel.

I'm looking for my next thing. Don't know what.
Hey man, good on you for quitting nicotine. That's a hard road. I've been trying to cut down because my meds interact with nicotine in such a way that it severely raises the chance of life-threatening blood clots in the legs. Even after I get past that 3 day hump, there's still the habitual "You're with friends/on break/just ate/on a walk, why aren't you smoking?" impulses, and the whole deadened opiod receptor thing that I have to get used to.

If it's not too personal, did you go cold turkey or did you do nic gum or patches or vape or what?

I quit cold, but it wasn't my first attempt by far. I attempted to re-wire some of the conditioned responses that the nicotine had laid into me over the years and succeeded. I was working from a personal theory of the mind as distinct consciousness levels that don't necessarily "crosstalk" all that much with the "reasoning" going on in the neocortex. The most basic of these "minds" is the part that's actually communicating with the environment on a chemical and tactile level, the part that's actually doing the smoking. The method was simple but unpleasant, even a bit painful, and intended to demonstrate physically what the rational and reasonable parts of a person already "know", that nicotine is not your friend but a killer with a traitorous smile on for you.

I realized that I had to do a few things if I was correct about my theory.

I had to commit totally to never allowing myself to "cheat" with other sources of nicotine, it being the draw to smoke. You don't quit smoking, you quit nicotine or you WILL smoke again anytime you're lacking your chosen proxy source. "Staging down" is comfortable, but it's essentially causing you to keep the problem in your system, even as your body is trying to (re)build a system without it. Also I needed the withdrawal distress to hit as hard as possible for the physical bit I'll describe below. WARNING IT'S PRETTY NASTY.

The above required a few hard axiomatic commitments.
NO smoking or smokers in the car. If that's a deal breaker for someone that needs a ride TOO BAD.
NO going to hang out with folks outside of a bar or home who are there to smoke, just wait until they're done inside or upwind.
NO standing your ground, if the urge to smoke hits due to external stimulus flee ASAP. After the initial withdrawal there's nothing that will do this but nicotine and associated stimulus and the whole point is to build new associations. "Fighting" such an urge is best done by removing the stimulus. Over time it WILL fade if you avoid the trace nicotine and associated behavior well enough for long enough. (For me about 6mos, but I keep all these rules still to reinforce my mentality)

During this time no other neural stims but caffeine (if you must) and no alcohol to excess allowed, especially if you're a barfly AND a smoker. Stimulants will be what your brain most desires, lacking the nicotine stimulus. The point is to minimize your exposure to such and rather literally allow your brain time to heal from toxic over-stimulus.

The above is why it had to be "cold turkey" in the end, but if the unconscious "mind" that governs Pavlovian responses isn't on board all the stuff above is just a head game doomed to failure as your consciousness constantly fights urges that QUITE effectively subvert reason to be satisfied.

Here's the icky part that warned about. The method to reinforce the "quit" signal as initial withdrawal symptoms set in.

When you've been smoking a long while a nasty batch of dead flesh and tar begins to build on the microscopic cilia tendrils of your lungs, causing both chemical paralysis from the nicotine and physical malfunction from the buildup of nasty ass "lung butter." This filtering system is most of what triggers the coughing reflex and it's malfunction probably much of the reason that smokers build up so much shit in their lungs and can still smoke long past the point where they're doing it through a stoma with what's left of their right lung. It's sending a false "all clear" signal over you body's own security system in addition to being deadly toxic in a "soothing" sort of way. I sought to and succeeded in repairing this broken unconscious perception.

When you hard quit the cilia go live again and you're basically treated to severe bronchitis and all of the psychological withdrawal symptoms at once. The very urge to cough signals the brain to fix it with the nicotine.exe suite of behaviors, worsening distress and making the "fuck it" response seem like a good choice.

I needed to change that response from "fuck it" to "fuck you Nicotine" and reinforce the nicotine as culprit and not savior. So in addition to the above commitment to follow-up behavior I intentionally worsened the withdrawal symptoms and sent a visual, tactile, audio, and  chemical message to my "unconscious" mind over a long weekend set aside for the purpose.

The first morning I woke up and hacked up the expected.. Then I continued to hack and cough past that until it was somewhat painful and quite fatiguing. All of this rotten lung flesh was deposited directly on my bare hands, and stared at, and smelled to reinforce that MY LUNGS WERE ROTTING INSIDE. Between rounds of coughing I audibly asked myself "Would I suck this back into my lungs for the nicotine?", and vividly envisioned doing so. This EVERY TIME I had a productive coughing fit in the morning or in private during the day for the duration of the withdrawal period, about 3 days. My body began to reflexively recoil from nicotine stimulus on day 2. Everything after that was a matter of reinforcing behavior as described above.


Disgusting doesn't begin to describe this, suffice to say I hope to never repeat it, but that was the point and it worked.