They're finally getting it? (http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,4149,Dembski-Exam,William-A-Dembski---designinferencecom) Sounds like a recipe for escalation to me.
Thing is though, how do you wage a meme war, if you don't have a firm grasp on how ideas evolve? Just because you can design a good meme, that doesn't mean that strong memes don't evolve without individual intent. Etc, etc.
Bring it on, I say.
meme war, :hashishim:
your constant and excessive use of the word meme has striped it of all meaning and makes me want to declare a trolling fatwā on you the next time you use it in a post..
:jihaad:
We need a new word for meme that means the same thing but the general population isn't aware of.
just dont tell this jack ass what it is.... he will use it in 2 out of every 3 posts :argh!:
Quote from: fomenter on August 10, 2009, 06:15:02 PM
meme war, :hashishim:
your constant and excessive use of the word meme has striped it of all meaning and makes me want to declare a trolling fatwā on you the next time you use it in a post..
:jihaad:
MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME. Go nuts.
(Almost?) everything we communicate is a meme. I'm interested in studying how this process works and how it can be used to benefit the hosts and not the parasite. I'm not going to pussyfoot around the word just because you think I'm a dick.
If you spot an instance where I use the word "meme" incorrectly - which should be easy to do with "constant and excessive use" stripping it of meaning - then please point it out and I'll adapt my usage and learn something in the process.
Also, the "chain letter" and "hypnosis" memes, seem to have greater traction right now - those might be a better bet.
:judge:
the best bet for you is STFU
I WANT TO RIP YOUR FACE OFF
Quote from: fomenter on August 10, 2009, 07:24:25 PM
the best bet for you is STFU
Bring it on motherfucker. You want to start a war with me? For no reason other than your ego?
I'm game.
Or stop picking fights with me, and I won't antagonise you. Not that I have been, but still.
Your call.
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:30:19 PM
I WANT TO RIP YOUR FACE OFF
You're obviously subscribing to the wrong meme.
Wow. :lulz:
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:37:44 PM
Quote from: fomenter on August 10, 2009, 07:24:25 PM
the best bet for you is STFU
Bring it on motherfucker. You want to start a war with me? For no reason other than your ego?
I'm game.
Or stop picking fights with me, and I won't antagonise you. Not that I have been, but still.
Your call.
:spittake:
What the fuck is this shit?
i just wanted to take the time to say that i dont care enough about you to respond to any thing you post.
This entire thread is :mittens:
Quote from: Regret on August 10, 2009, 07:40:24 PM
i just wanted to take the time to say that i dont care enough about you to respond to any thing you post.
That's fair enough. I can only hope that by this time next year that situation will have changed.
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
Quote from: Pir Pariah on August 10, 2009, 07:39:58 PM
:spittake:
What the fuck is this shit?
He keeps giving me shit for no reason I can figure out, through different threads, for over a week now.
I don't want a fight, but I'm not going to just put up with that.
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
/
THIS
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
Is it the word or the idea behind the word that bugs you? I'd happily use a synonym if it expressed a deeper meaning to the concept.
I'm guessing we're gonna start seeing the No Meme Hamster Cabal pretty soon.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
Is it the word or the idea behind the word that bugs you? I'd happily use a synonym if it expressed a deeper meaning to the concept.
its the WORD.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:46:08 PM
He keeps giving me shit for no reason I can figure out,
I don't want a fight, but I'm not going to just put up with that.
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
its a half ass-ed concept to start with, when it was used sparingly it communicated information (sometimes) now its fucking word salad to me fuck that word..,
PROTIP: Fred is the Queen of #poop, DO NOT FUCK WITH HER
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:48:33 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
Is it the word or the idea behind the word that bugs you? I'd happily use a synonym if it expressed a deeper meaning to the concept.
its the WORD.
Without an appropriate synonym, how is that different from saying "let's not talk about XXXX" any more? Should I use "emem" instead?
i dunno i usually call it the evil word that cannot be named
its like the voldemort of language
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:52:53 PM
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:48:33 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
Is it the word or the idea behind the word that bugs you? I'd happily use a synonym if it expressed a deeper meaning to the concept.
its the WORD.
Without an appropriate synonym, how is that different from saying "let's not talk about XXXX" any more? Should I use "emem" instead?
Is your IRL name Ben Mack, by any chance?
Quote from: fomenter on August 10, 2009, 07:51:39 PM
its a half ass-ed concept to start with, when it was used sparingly it communicated information (sometimes) now its fucking word salad to me fuck that word..,
In what way do you think the concept behind emems is half-assed?
I'd absolutely agree that the science behind their construction and detection and experimentation is in its infancy, but is that a reason to throw it out with the bathwater?
Your making out the word that cannot be named to be a much bigger thing then it is. There is much more important shit than it.
Quote from: LMNO on August 10, 2009, 07:55:25 PM
Is your IRL name Ben Mack, by any chance?
No, for one, when I hear the word marketting, I always think of in variations of Bill Hicks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZo1Jjfshw).
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:55:04 PM
i dunno i usually call it the evil word that cannot be named
its like the voldemort of language
You know now that I want to add insult to injury and use that word in a pun, right?
But, I figure you've been meme'd enough as it is.
:lulz:
Quote from: Pir Pariah on August 10, 2009, 07:59:29 PM
Your making out the word that cannot be named to be a much bigger thing then it is. There is much more important shit than it.
Then help me out. I'm not sure I understand.
Right now I see it as a thread about memes, thread-jacked from the first reply, and the resulting attempt to stifle any discussion about memes.
Is there more to it than that?
i want to stop every discusion from being meme'd by having that stupid word being thrust into them..
rwhn :wink:
So, actually I've changed my mind. I love fictionpuss now.
Quote from: Epimetheus on August 10, 2009, 08:11:35 PM
So, actually I've changed my mind. I love fictionpuss now.
:hashishim:
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 08:04:05 PM
Quote from: Pir Pariah on August 10, 2009, 07:59:29 PM
Your making out the word that cannot be named to be a much bigger thing then it is. There is much more important shit than it.
Then help me out. I'm not sure I understand.
Right now I see it as a thread about memes, thread-jacked from the first reply, and the resulting attempt to stifle any discussion about memes.
Is there more to it than that?
Nope. This is the part where you walk out in a huff.
Related: One of my girlfriend's best friends is a creationist, and today she tried explained all of her arguments to my girlfriend for believing in microevolution but not macroevolution. My girlfriend considers herself a Christian, but not thoroughly, I would consider her more agnostic than anything(though I think I have something to do with that). Anyway my girlfriend told me after their conversation that she thought all of it was silly and she ended up changing the subject so as not to get into a fight.
I love my girlfriend :)
Quote from: NWC on August 10, 2009, 09:36:31 PM
Related: One of my girlfriend's best friends is a creationist, and today she tried explained all of her arguments to my girlfriend for believing in microevolution but not macroevolution. My girlfriend considers herself a Christian, but not thoroughly, I would consider her more agnostic than anything(though I think I have something to do with that). Anyway my girlfriend told me after their conversation that she thought all of it was silly and she ended up changing the subject so as not to get into a fight.
I love my girlfriend :)
That's interesting - I wasn't aware that creationists made a distinction. Given the ability of Christians to law-of-five themselves into a tizzy over anything, it seems like a dangerous move for them to step onto the field at all.
Given that I see evolution/emergence almost everywhere I look, I think that danger for them is real.
I read the reasoning.. but it was in something about biology and it was in French, something about flagella.. it wasn't really coherent. I mean, I see how it could have made sense to her, because she's super Christian, so everything she reads serves no purpose but to prove her bias, but it was mostly mumbo-jumbo that I felt was just trying to "out-field" my girlfriend, who knows nothing of biology.
Again, I'm proud of her :)
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: Regret on August 10, 2009, 07:40:24 PM
i just wanted to take the time to say that i dont care enough about you to respond to any thing you post.
That's fair enough. I can only hope that by this time next year that situation will have changed.
Naturally! That is when we will bump your threads for shits'n giggles!
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
Is it the word or the idea behind the word that bugs you? I'd happily use a synonym if it expressed a deeper meaning to the concept.
You'd probably be better of by using instead, in most situations seems to express your intention better, anyway.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 11, 2009, 12:22:56 AM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: Regret on August 10, 2009, 07:40:24 PM
i just wanted to take the time to say that i dont care enough about you to respond to any thing you post.
That's fair enough. I can only hope that by this time next year that situation will have changed.
Naturally! That is when we will bump your threads for shits'n giggles!
And this is why Christian trolls carrying all that baggage about forgiveness and atonement will fail. How can you hope to escape your mindset, if you are not mercilessly reminded that you have not escaped your mindset? If you can't escape your mindset, how can you help others to do the same?
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 11, 2009, 12:28:11 AM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Quotememe
is my least favourite word ever. it makes me cringe and gag and want to kill people. i has been used TOO MANY TIMES in the last 4 threads i have read
STOP. STOPPPPP!!!!!!! IM GOING TO BLOW UP THE INTERNETS SOON. JUST STOP ITTTTTTT
Is it the word or the idea behind the word that bugs you? I'd happily use a synonym if it expressed a deeper meaning to the concept.
You'd probably be better of by using instead, in most situations seems to express your intention better, anyway.
I'm not sure what you mean by this - where should I use "instead"?
No, not to use the word "instead", I meant, instead of the word "meme".
meme meme meme meme meme meme meme meme meme meme meme meme
MEME!!
MEMEMEME!!!!
\
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/thumb/8/87/TF1-MuppetsTV-PhotoGallery-24-Beaker.jpg/120px-TF1-MuppetsTV-PhotoGallery-24-Beaker.jpg)
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 05:15:11 PM
They're finally getting it? (http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,4149,Dembski-Exam,William-A-Dembski---designinferencecom) Sounds like a recipe for escalation to me.
Thing is though, how do you wage a meme war, if you don't have a firm grasp on how ideas evolve? Just because you can design a good meme, that doesn't mean that strong memes don't evolve without individual intent. Etc, etc.
Bring it on, I say.
I think this needs to be dealt with.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 11, 2009, 12:43:33 AM
No, not to use the word "instead", I meant, instead of the word "meme".
I've been using instead of meme ever since Fred's hamster bombings.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 10, 2009, 06:18:48 PM
We need a new word for meme that means the same thing but the general population isn't aware of.
make it whatever you want it to be. as long as you define what it means within a particular context, you can use fquwbgaz for all I care
that word was dead the day Dawkins defined it.
Quote from: NWC on August 10, 2009, 09:36:31 PM
Related: One of my girlfriend's best friends is a creationist, and today she tried explained all of her arguments to my girlfriend for believing in microevolution but not macroevolution.
Quote from: On the Origin, 1st Ed., pg 275, par. 389Laying aside the question of fertility and sterility, in all other respects there seems to be a general and close similarity in the offspring of crossed species, and of crossed varieties. If we look at species as having been specially created, and at varieties as having been produced by secondary laws, this similarity would be an astonishing fact. But it harmonizes perfectly with the view that there is no essential distinction between species and varieties.
Darwin, shooting down the arbitrary distinctions of macro and microevolution, 150 years ago. BAM!
Quote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 04:04:42 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 10, 2009, 06:18:48 PM
We need a new word for meme that means the same thing but the general population isn't aware of.
make it whatever you want it to be. as long as you define what it means within a particular context, you can use fquwbgaz for all I care
that word was dead the day Dawkins defined it.
I've just put The Selfish Gene on my reading list, it's been too long (12 years) since I read it last. I'm curious though why you say the word is dead - and I really don't recall his original definition. Is it because "meme" can be used for anything from the practice of wearing a baseball cap the wrong way around, to an entire religion?
Quote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 04:04:42 AM
Quote from: NWC on August 10, 2009, 09:36:31 PM
Related: One of my girlfriend's best friends is a creationist, and today she tried explained all of her arguments to my girlfriend for believing in microevolution but not macroevolution.
Quote from: On the Origin, 1st Ed., pg 275, par. 389Laying aside the question of fertility and sterility, in all other respects there seems to be a general and close similarity in the offspring of crossed species, and of crossed varieties. If we look at species as having been specially created, and at varieties as having been produced by secondary laws, this similarity would be an astonishing fact. But it harmonizes perfectly with the view that there is no essential distinction between species and varieties.
Darwin, shooting down the arbitrary distinctions of macro and microevolution, 150 years ago. BAM!
I am really rusty on my evolutionary background (it coming in its entirety from The Selfish Gene, over a decade ago), but it seems to me that there might be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?
I also don't think that vocal hatred of the word is enough of a reason to stop using it. Now, if the intent were to piss off Dawkins, then I might be up for that..
MEME :1fap:
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 05:16:00 AM
Quote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 04:04:42 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 10, 2009, 06:18:48 PM
We need a new word for meme that means the same thing but the general population isn't aware of.
make it whatever you want it to be. as long as you define what it means within a particular context, you can use fquwbgaz for all I care
that word was dead the day Dawkins defined it.
I've just put The Selfish Gene on my reading list, it's been too long (12 years) since I read it last. I'm curious though why you say the word is dead - and I really don't recall his original definition. Is it because "meme" can be used for anything from the practice of wearing a baseball cap the wrong way around, to an entire religion?
Yes. Now stop using it all the time. It would be like me inserting "gene" into every sentence in places where it doesn't make sense.
QuoteQuote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 04:04:42 AM
Quote from: NWC on August 10, 2009, 09:36:31 PM
Related: One of my girlfriend's best friends is a creationist, and today she tried explained all of her arguments to my girlfriend for believing in microevolution but not macroevolution.
Quote from: On the Origin, 1st Ed., pg 275, par. 389Laying aside the question of fertility and sterility, in all other respects there seems to be a general and close similarity in the offspring of crossed species, and of crossed varieties. If we look at species as having been specially created, and at varieties as having been produced by secondary laws, this similarity would be an astonishing fact. But it harmonizes perfectly with the view that there is no essential distinction between species and varieties.
Darwin, shooting down the arbitrary distinctions of macro and microevolution, 150 years ago. BAM!
I am really rusty on my evolutionary background (it coming in its entirety from The Selfish Gene, over a decade ago), but it seems to me that there might be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?
I also don't think that vocal hatred of the word is enough of a reason to stop using it. Now, if the intent were to piss off Dawkins, then I might be up for that..
ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.
For FUCKS SAKE, quit using that word. Did you just understand what I said? Theres no real difference in the way varieties and species come about, therefore there are no arbitrary distinctions of micro and macroevolution. And please please please do not start taking that bullshit and making yet more bullshit out of it. Just stop already, you're driving me nuts. :x
Hey fictionpuss, suck an ass.
Quote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 03:37:50 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 05:16:00 AM
Quote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 04:04:42 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 10, 2009, 06:18:48 PM
We need a new word for meme that means the same thing but the general population isn't aware of.
make it whatever you want it to be. as long as you define what it means within a particular context, you can use fquwbgaz for all I care
that word was dead the day Dawkins defined it.
I've just put The Selfish Gene on my reading list, it's been too long (12 years) since I read it last. I'm curious though why you say the word is dead - and I really don't recall his original definition. Is it because "meme" can be used for anything from the practice of wearing a baseball cap the wrong way around, to an entire religion?
Yes. Now stop using it all the time. It would be like me inserting "gene" into every sentence in places where it doesn't make sense.
QuoteQuote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 04:04:42 AM
Quote from: NWC on August 10, 2009, 09:36:31 PM
Related: One of my girlfriend's best friends is a creationist, and today she tried explained all of her arguments to my girlfriend for believing in microevolution but not macroevolution.
Quote from: On the Origin, 1st Ed., pg 275, par. 389Laying aside the question of fertility and sterility, in all other respects there seems to be a general and close similarity in the offspring of crossed species, and of crossed varieties. If we look at species as having been specially created, and at varieties as having been produced by secondary laws, this similarity would be an astonishing fact. But it harmonizes perfectly with the view that there is no essential distinction between species and varieties.
Darwin, shooting down the arbitrary distinctions of macro and microevolution, 150 years ago. BAM!
I am really rusty on my evolutionary background (it coming in its entirety from The Selfish Gene, over a decade ago), but it seems to me that there might be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?
I also don't think that vocal hatred of the word is enough of a reason to stop using it. Now, if the intent were to piss off Dawkins, then I might be up for that..
ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.
For FUCKS SAKE, quit using that word. Did you just understand what I said? Theres no real difference in the way varieties and species come about, therefore there are no arbitrary distinctions of micro and macroevolution. And please please please do not start taking that bullshit and making yet more bullshit out of it. Just stop already, you're driving me nuts. :x
I don't think you actually read what I wrote there. By the logic you just used, I could say "evolution" is a useless word, because "meme" is a useless word to describe "anything from the practice of wearing a baseball cap the wrong way around, to an entire religion".
Actually, Kai said:
"No difference between micro and macro evolution."
You responded,
"Might there be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?"
Your response is exactly the opposite of what Kai was saying.
Quote from: LMNO on August 11, 2009, 03:54:37 PM
Actually, Kai said:
"No difference between micro and macro evolution."
You responded,
"Might there be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?"
Your response is exactly the opposite of what Kai was saying.
No, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless
because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.
:lulz:
You're a retard.
:lulz:
If I am so retarded, it should be easy to point out just one example of it in the response I gave above.
Try it.
Evolution is a body of science that attempts to explain how life on Earth has changed, adapted, etc., over the millions of years it has existed.
It is far more involved than your crude, rough-shot summation.
Moreover, you are over-thinking and over-analyzing concepts, memes, that in the large scheme of things, don't mean a damn thing in real, day-to-day life.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 03:51:13 PM
I don't think [...], I [...] is [...] useless
[...]
word
no idea what this is all about btw, I didn't read any of your posts
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:17:11 PM
If I am so retarded, it should be easy to point out just one example of it in the response I gave above.
Try it.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:17:11 PMNo, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.
Quote from: A Pesky Nonvoting Screeching on August 11, 2009, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:17:11 PM
If I am so retarded, it should be easy to point out just one example of it in the response I gave above.
Try it.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:17:11 PMNo, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.
I suppose I'm wasting my time asking you to address the actual argument, rather than just poke fun at the retard.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 11, 2009, 03:54:37 PM
Actually, Kai said:
"No difference between micro and macro evolution."
You responded,
"Might there be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?"
Your response is exactly the opposite of what Kai was saying.
No, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.
No, I'm objecting to your use of the word "meme' in such a muddled constant way that all significant meaning of the word is lost. You use it in such a vague manner and everywhere that it just becomes like saying fwatwoaewewajiioewoa'e. It ends up meaning nothing at all.
And your last statement shows just how little you actually know what you're talking about. You're confusing words with terms, and terms with words and being all around confusing in general. There is a term that the word "meme" can stand for, a rather significant and useful term within a limited context. However, the way you use the word "meme" muddles it until the word doesn't represent the term anymore. Your usage renders the word meaningless and annoying. As I said, it's as if I would use the word gene everywhere. Or as when I say a word over and over and over it begins to sound like gibberish.
Lets get this straight. I don't particularly like the word evolution, but since it's come to be associated with a term I discuss frequently, I use the word for communication's sake. I also use it in a very specific and well defined manner, and I make sure to define it when I use it, or that it is at least clear by the context what I'm talking about. I don't use it everywhere for various things. For example, I don't say "my learning ability evolved over time" in close proximity to talking about "evolution via natural selection". That way
my terms aren't muddled. Do you fucking understand what I'm fucking saying to you? I want you to stop using the word "meme" until you can use it properly, until you can well define your context AND connotation. Because connotation is as important to meaning as the standard definition is, as context is. (anyone who tells you differently is a moron.) Right now you're using the word to mean various things and it's ANNOYING AS HELL. And it's very poor communication.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:50:14 PM
Quote from: A Pesky Nonvoting Screeching on August 11, 2009, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:17:11 PM
If I am so retarded, it should be easy to point out just one example of it in the response I gave above.
Try it.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:17:11 PMNo, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.
I suppose I'm wasting my time asking you to address the actual argument, rather than just poke fun at the retard.
This was in reply to someone telling you that KAI told you that there was no difference between Micro and macro in the case of evolution, and you switched over to the idea of micro and macro in reference to the word meme. Since the term meme is commonly used as analogy to gene you basically took the response about evolution and used it in reference to genes. I'm pretty fucking sure that there are no Microgenes or Macrogenes.
OR in essence everything you fucking said in your post was retarded.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 05:15:11 PM
They're finally getting it? (http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,4149,Dembski-Exam,William-A-Dembski---designinferencecom) Sounds like a recipe for escalation to me.
Thing is though, how do you wage a meme war, if you don't have a firm grasp on how ideas evolve? Just because you can design a good meme, that doesn't mean that strong memes don't evolve without individual intent. Etc, etc.
Bring it on, I say.
Trying to take Kai's advice on board, I'll rewrite that initial post.
The trolling described in the article, which the students are required to perform, sounds like a simple task of arguing using talking points already discussed in their class. This is a primitive form of trolling, as even if those "talking points" have been designed with great care, that is no substitute for the students themselves being able to dissemble and reassemble them with an intuitive understanding of the argument. Much like the soldiers who practice working with their weapons until they understand each component.
But this is not a stable environment, and it seems inevitable to me that over time student trolls will be taught increasingly sophisticated techniques. For example, nineteen years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#History) it was still a successful technique to compare an opponents position to Hitler, and walk away unharmed. But the more we communicate, the more we refine our techniques. And if you click that link, you will see evidence of those techniques refining themselves.
Escalation is inevitable.
If, as Dawkins wrote, ideas evolve and mutate over time.. then gaining an intuitive understanding of how to use ideas effectively in this environment, would seem to me to be equivalent to gaining an intuitive understanding of at least one aspect of how evolution operates.
Which is a deliciously ironic position for these Intelligent Design trolls to put themselves in. Even more so if they convince themselves that it doesn't apply.
Does that really convey any more significant information than the original?
I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.
Stand back, I'm about to be helpful:
http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/science_books/psychology_behavior/847684276.html
:omg:
why do i get the feeling he will read the book, misunderstand it, borrow its jargon, and come back and tell us we aren't communicating right, while incorrectly using the new words he learned numerous times in every sentence ..
Quote from: LMNO on August 11, 2009, 05:32:33 PM
I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.
Quite possibly. You're part of a community which has
years of tradition and history and meaning. I've been here less than a month. While your terms and maps are well documented I, and likely no-one else, will read through and absorb ~500,000 posts and external references just to make sure that the community mappings and personal mappings are as accurate as possible.
Every time you mystically say something like "I don't think that word means what you think it means", if I want to understand, I have a choice between reading the archives or asking you directly. I am much more inclined to do the latter.
Because I want to understand as much as possible, as quickly as possible.
I wouldn't want to infect you with my memes - mind control is a dangerous thing.
Quote from: Cain on August 11, 2009, 05:35:04 PM
Stand back, I'm about to be helpful:
http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/science_books/psychology_behavior/847684276.html
Thanks. I'll be reading this. Sounds like a good companion to Adler and van Doren.
Quote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 11, 2009, 05:35:04 PM
Stand back, I'm about to be helpful:
http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/science_books/psychology_behavior/847684276.html
Thanks. I'll be reading this. Sounds like a good companion to Adler and van Doren.
Ah neat, I didn't see the download links first time around. Thanks.
The term meme is loosing all memeing, I meme, I can't even meme the meme meme. Meme. Smurfy!
Quote from: Dimo1138 on August 11, 2009, 09:37:16 PM
The term meme is loosing all memeing, I meme, I can't even meme the meme meme. Meme. Smurfy!
Wow, you actually said something that made perfect sense in the context. :)
I do memes right, yuo guys do memes rong.
Quote from: fomenter on August 10, 2009, 06:15:02 PM
meme war, :hashishim:
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2045/124882440841fnnc88orl.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/124882440841fnnc88orl.jpg/)
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 05:51:28 PMQuote from: LMNO on August 11, 2009, 05:32:33 PM
I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.
Quite possibly. You're part of a community which has years of tradition and history and meaning. I've been here less than a month. While your terms and maps are well documented I, and likely no-one else, will read through and absorb ~500,000 posts and external references just to make sure that the community mappings and personal mappings are as accurate as possible.
Every time you mystically say something like "I don't think that word means what you think it means", if I want to understand, I have a choice between reading the archives or asking you directly. I am much more inclined to do the latter.
you could also, you know, instead of continuously trying, failing and getting on everybody's nerves, limit yourself to using words you do understand.
i bet it's in that book somewhere, advice like "don't use words you don't fully understand the meaning of"
Quote from: la neige cône on August 12, 2009, 09:38:08 AM
Quote from: fomenter on August 10, 2009, 06:15:02 PM
meme war, :hashishim:
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2045/124882440841fnnc88orl.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/124882440841fnnc88orl.jpg/)
I have a copy of that.
I don't even meme what meme I meme meme. Meme meme meme. Oh meme.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 12, 2009, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 05:51:28 PMQuote from: LMNO on August 11, 2009, 05:32:33 PM
I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.
Quite possibly. You're part of a community which has years of tradition and history and meaning. I've been here less than a month. While your terms and maps are well documented I, and likely no-one else, will read through and absorb ~500,000 posts and external references just to make sure that the community mappings and personal mappings are as accurate as possible.
Every time you mystically say something like "I don't think that word means what you think it means", if I want to understand, I have a choice between reading the archives or asking you directly. I am much more inclined to do the latter.
you could also, you know, instead of continuously trying, failing and getting on everybody's nerves, limit yourself to using words you do understand.
i bet it's in that book somewhere, advice like "don't use words you don't fully understand the meaning of"
It makes me giggle that you ended your sentence with a preposition.
I'm a dork.
So how does everyone feel about brainwashing? I think that Christians are brainwashing us with their brainwashing techniques, and we're too brainwashed to realize it.
And you guys should all stop trying to brainwash eachother with your opinions
brainwashers
Quote from: NWC on August 12, 2009, 02:13:43 PM
So how does everyone feel about brainwashing? I think that Christians are brainwashing us with their brainwashing techniques, and we're too brainwashed to realize it.
And you guys should all stop trying to brainwash eachother with your opinions
brainwashers
brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme
I feel like brainwashing is very similar to memes, all of the sudden. Maybe it's because Scientology brainwashed the brainwashing=meme meme into my washed brain.
Quote from: LMNO on August 12, 2009, 12:55:59 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 12, 2009, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 05:51:28 PMQuote from: LMNO on August 11, 2009, 05:32:33 PM
I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.
Quite possibly. You're part of a community which has years of tradition and history and meaning. I've been here less than a month. While your terms and maps are well documented I, and likely no-one else, will read through and absorb ~500,000 posts and external references just to make sure that the community mappings and personal mappings are as accurate as possible.
Every time you mystically say something like "I don't think that word means what you think it means", if I want to understand, I have a choice between reading the archives or asking you directly. I am much more inclined to do the latter.
you could also, you know, instead of continuously trying, failing and getting on everybody's nerves, limit yourself to using words you do understand.
i bet it's in that book somewhere, advice like "don't use words you don't fully understand the meaning of"
It makes me giggle that you ended your sentence with a preposition.
I'm a dork.
The funny thing is that I usually notice what I end a sentence with,
but for some reason, after I made it, see that it is wrong, it's stuck that
way and takes a lot of mental effort to shuffle it around so it turns right.
Same thing in the reverse, when I try to do it on purpose btw.
Quote from: Kai on August 11, 2009, 04:56:50 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 11, 2009, 03:54:37 PM
Actually, Kai said:
"No difference between micro and macro evolution."
You responded,
"Might there be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?"
Your response is exactly the opposite of what Kai was saying.
No, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.
No, I'm objecting to your use of the word "meme' in such a muddled constant way that all significant meaning of the word is lost. You use it in such a vague manner and everywhere that it just becomes like saying fwatwoaewewajiioewoa'e. It ends up meaning nothing at all.
And your last statement shows just how little you actually know what you're talking about. You're confusing words with terms, and terms with words and being all around confusing in general. There is a term that the word "meme" can stand for, a rather significant and useful term within a limited context. However, the way you use the word "meme" muddles it until the word doesn't represent the term anymore. Your usage renders the word meaningless and annoying. As I said, it's as if I would use the word gene everywhere. Or as when I say a word over and over and over it begins to sound like gibberish.
Lets get this straight. I don't particularly like the word evolution, but since it's come to be associated with a term I discuss frequently, I use the word for communication's sake. I also use it in a very specific and well defined manner, and I make sure to define it when I use it, or that it is at least clear by the context what I'm talking about. I don't use it everywhere for various things. For example, I don't say "my learning ability evolved over time" in close proximity to talking about "evolution via natural selection". That way my terms aren't muddled. Do you fucking understand what I'm fucking saying to you? I want you to stop using the word "meme" until you can use it properly, until you can well define your context AND connotation. Because connotation is as important to meaning as the standard definition is, as context is. (anyone who tells you differently is a moron.) Right now you're using the word to mean various things and it's ANNOYING AS HELL. And it's very poor communication.
:mittens:
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 05:29:57 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 05:15:11 PM
They're finally getting it? (http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,4149,Dembski-Exam,William-A-Dembski---designinferencecom) Sounds like a recipe for escalation to me.
Thing is though, how do you wage a meme war, if you don't have a firm grasp on how ideas evolve? Just because you can design a good meme, that doesn't mean that strong memes don't evolve without individual intent. Etc, etc.
Bring it on, I say.
Trying to take Kai's advice on board, I'll rewrite that initial post.
The trolling described in the article, which the students are required to perform, sounds like a simple task of arguing using talking points already discussed in their class. This is a primitive form of trolling, as even if those "talking points" have been designed with great care, that is no substitute for the students themselves being able to dissemble and reassemble them with an intuitive understanding of the argument. Much like the soldiers who practice working with their weapons until they understand each component.
But this is not a stable environment, and it seems inevitable to me that over time student trolls will be taught increasingly sophisticated techniques. For example, nineteen years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#History) it was still a successful technique to compare an opponents position to Hitler, and walk away unharmed. But the more we communicate, the more we refine our techniques. And if you click that link, you will see evidence of those techniques refining themselves.
Escalation is inevitable.
If, as Dawkins wrote, ideas evolve and mutate over time.. then gaining an intuitive understanding of how to use ideas effectively in this environment, would seem to me to be equivalent to gaining an intuitive understanding of at least one aspect of how evolution operates.
Which is a deliciously ironic position for these Intelligent Design trolls to put themselves in. Even more so if they convince themselves that it doesn't apply.
Does that really convey any more significant information than the original?
Where did you get the ideas that change = refinement or that evolution = escalation?
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on August 12, 2009, 07:16:34 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 11, 2009, 05:29:57 PM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 05:15:11 PM
They're finally getting it? (http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,4149,Dembski-Exam,William-A-Dembski---designinferencecom) Sounds like a recipe for escalation to me.
Thing is though, how do you wage a meme war, if you don't have a firm grasp on how ideas evolve? Just because you can design a good meme, that doesn't mean that strong memes don't evolve without individual intent. Etc, etc.
Bring it on, I say.
Trying to take Kai's advice on board, I'll rewrite that initial post.
The trolling described in the article, which the students are required to perform, sounds like a simple task of arguing using talking points already discussed in their class. This is a primitive form of trolling, as even if those "talking points" have been designed with great care, that is no substitute for the students themselves being able to dissemble and reassemble them with an intuitive understanding of the argument. Much like the soldiers who practice working with their weapons until they understand each component.
But this is not a stable environment, and it seems inevitable to me that over time student trolls will be taught increasingly sophisticated techniques. For example, nineteen years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#History) it was still a successful technique to compare an opponents position to Hitler, and walk away unharmed. But the more we communicate, the more we refine our techniques. And if you click that link, you will see evidence of those techniques refining themselves.
Escalation is inevitable.
If, as Dawkins wrote, ideas evolve and mutate over time.. then gaining an intuitive understanding of how to use ideas effectively in this environment, would seem to me to be equivalent to gaining an intuitive understanding of at least one aspect of how evolution operates.
Which is a deliciously ironic position for these Intelligent Design trolls to put themselves in. Even more so if they convince themselves that it doesn't apply.
Does that really convey any more significant information than the original?
Where did you get the ideas that change = refinement or that evolution = escalation?
Technically, the word "evolution" comes from the greek for "unrolling" and has a connotation of escalation. This is also the reason I don't LIKE using evolution. However, when I do use it I make sure to define it well, as I have, so FP has no ground to stand on in regards to that.
having your brain washed really isnt that bad as long as they give it back to you
mine is probably full of all sorts of crud.
COGNITIVE DETERGENT
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:38:15 PM
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:30:19 PM
I WANT TO RIP YOUR FACE OFF
You're obviously subscribing to the wrong meme.
here would be an example of misusing the word. As requested.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 13, 2009, 07:44:54 AM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:38:15 PM
Quote from: ✡ Rabbi ✡ Fred ✡ on August 10, 2009, 07:30:19 PM
I WANT TO RIP YOUR FACE OFF
You're obviously subscribing to the wrong meme.
here would be an example of misusing the word. As requested.
But the reason you think it's misuse because you're subscribing to the rong meem.
Hey fomenter, I owe you an apology for going off on you at the beginning of this thread. I'll try to be less kneejerk sensitive in the future. Cheers.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 08:00:35 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 10, 2009, 07:55:25 PM
Is your IRL name Ben Mack, by any chance?
No, for one, when I hear the word marketting, I always think of in variations of Bill Hicks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZo1Jjfshw).
i think of WHAT WOULD BILL HICKS SAY... http://www.amazon.com/What-Would-Bill-Hicks-Say/dp/1933368012/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251581675&sr=8-11
if you wanna be an arrogant, pompous asshole writer, sorry you've been beaten to the punch
look up Dead Kennedy
He was far better at it then you are
Far better
Bump
This thread is fucking hilarious.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/nq3578.jpg)
I tried to find the article this thread started from, it's no longer live.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 11, 2009, 12:22:56 AM
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 10, 2009, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: Regret on August 10, 2009, 07:40:24 PM
i just wanted to take the time to say that i dont care enough about you to respond to any thing you post.
That's fair enough. I can only hope that by this time next year that situation will have changed.
Naturally! That is when we will bump your threads for shits'n giggles!
lollercaust