Its 3:00am, I'm walking home, tripping. I've been smoking hash all night but it's not that that makes me trip. When I want to take a trip I take a trip. I don't necessarily ingest or inhale or somehow else incorporate a chemical into my biological organism. I don't need to. That's what the acid heads and the dope fiends never seemed to get. A trip is going somewhere, stepping sideways, without moving, through the here and now, to the there and then that's still here and now but somewhere else. Acid serves as a vehicle to take the trip and, perhaps more importantly, in the first instance, it shows you the way but once you know the way it aint so far so I just go there, in the blink of an eye. Last Train to Transcentral, all aboard. I look at the sparkles on the black tarmac pavement, from the moonlight on the frost. Little stars, twinkling by in a river beneath my feet. It's so beautiful, so still but still life, still alive. Clippety clop go my boots, along the milky way, home.
I'm thinking outside the box. There is no box when it comes to my thoughts. Whooopef'kinskidoo! I got all these thoughts. They come from places outside the box but they won't fit in the box. They don't make sense in the box. I don't understand why not cos I never ever thought in there. I got lucky. I was born insane. They had to teach me the box existed in the first place, "What? Theres a box?", "Whats a box?", they ask. But there's definitely a box and a lot of heads are stuck inside it. None of these heads get my thoughts. They'd have to think outside the box to think these thoughts. But you tell them this and the don't know what a box is. Thinking inside the box assumes the inside is all there is. Of course it does if there was an outside then you'd have to think of that and that, by definition, is not inside the box.
There's no one here on this sleeping street. No one for me to grab by the collar and give a shake and scream "Look - there's a fucking great BOX!". Probably just as well. They'd have no idea what I was talking about or, if they did, they'd probably just say "Yeah, but nobody ever gets that." and that would be a real buzzkill. Truth be told there is no box. I wouldn't be tramping along the milky way, clippety clop, if there was a box. I'm out my box! Stoner humour only makes sense to the trully stoned but it's just a box within a box that most folks never open. Is outside the box just the inside of another box? I think of outside the box. Yup it's another box, I step outside, clippety clop and I keep going and I keep going, one box after another in infinite regression. So I stop.
When Monkey King was challenged by the buddha to fly to the pillars at the end of the universe and he flew and he flew and finally reached the pillars and took a piss on them. It turned out he was pissing on the budda's fingers. I got that at age 10. None of the adults did. So whatddya do? Well, technically there isn't a box, other than in the sense that they all think there is. Limits they call it. "Know your limits." they keep telling me.
"What's a limit?", I ask.
"It's the very end."
"what like a wall?"
"Yeah just like a wall"
"What's on the other side?"
"Nothing."
"Jesus that's some box!"
"What's a box?"
I've trampled the milky way all the way home. I open the door and step inside, into my cozy little box. Couple of females of the species laugh and flirt with me, one of them belongs to me, in the dominant male primate box. I belong to her in the localised, socially accepted monogamy container. The other one I have conquested, once, where we both found out we prefer to have sex in different boxes. A traditional ancient pagan fertility symbol has manifested, in glittering and glowing and sparkling form, most mesmerisingly in the corner of the room, the box within the box where the sofas and the teevee live. I stare at the shiny twinkles and think to myself "I just walked down that." Clippety clop.
Quote from: SillyCybin on December 09, 2006, 02:21:11 PM
When I want to take a trip I take a trip. I don't necessarily ingest or inhale or somehow else incorporate a chemical into my biological organism. I don't need to. That's what the acid heads and the dope fiends never seemed to get. A trip is going somewhere, stepping sideways, without moving, through the here and now, to the there and then that's still here and now but somewhere else. Acid serves as a vehicle to take the trip and, perhaps more importantly, in the first instance, it shows you the way but once you know the way it aint so far so I just go there, in the blink of an eye
(http://www.swiftindavis.com/sblog/media/1/20031006-tomahawk.jpg)
The problem I have is,
What is the box? I've had many experiences with vastly different types of altered consciousness. Almost all that one experiences is affected by one's environment and experiences. Granted, psychedelics have produced some incredible experiences for me, but they seem to be most effective at bringing my imagination to the forefront of consciousness in a very visceral way.
I guess this just shows that the BIP is more resilient than many believe.
My equation (feel free to add to it):
primative monkey mind/body + social pressure (i.e. norms/mores) = box
Yeah, that's pretty much how I view the Whole Shebang.
Right now, I have a case of the hiccups, so I fully understand the "monkey body" aspect.
:-D
Quote from: hunter s.durden on December 09, 2006, 11:27:05 PM
My equation (feel free to add to it):
primative monkey mind/body + social pressure (i.e. norms/mores) = box
nice way of putting it
ill throw this in:
primative monkey mind/body +
(something) + social pressure (i.e. norms/mores) = box
there is something missing in that equation
and i think that, in a nut shell, is what a lot of the discussion on the BIP forum developed into
what is that 'something'?
where did it come from?
how did it get established?
its just not as clean cut as we would like it to be
there is a fundamental and possibly tangible and defineable difference between us and 'monkeys'
ie - this box we are in now is one we were pushed into in a way other than 'gee shucks'
EDIT: and in a way that isnt mystical/magical either
Anywhere you go theres a local version of socially imposed thinking which, by consesnus, masquerades under the guise of 'sanity'
Sanity is a list of rules, some written, some unwritten. It's everything from how gravity works to 'stand at the back of the queue'. Break too many of these rules, for whatever reason (chemical imbalance in the brain or just downright rebelliousness) and you risk being labelled 'insane' or 'crazy' or 'mental'
The sheep somehow know this is wrong but can't do anything to break it down. So they hold in awe those who do. How many times you been told 'wow man - you're so crazy' ? How many times have you heard 'Yeah im just, like, totally insane.' It's like somewhere deep inside they know the answer but they're afraid to slip the chains.
Quote from: SillyCybin on December 10, 2006, 11:34:03 AM
The sheep somehow know this is wrong but can't do anything to break it down. So they hold in awe those who do. How many times you been told 'wow man - you're so crazy' ? How many times have you heard 'Yeah im just, like, totally insane.' It's like somewhere deep inside they know the answer but they're afraid to slip the chains.
you said it right there yo
thats a sharp observation
10/10
I caught a second or two of some Courtney Love interview when I was walking through the telly room last night. I stopped to listen to Billy Currigan (the scottish dude from Smashing Pumpkins) talking about how people are afraid to go to hell but you cant sing about those places unless you go. Then they criticise the ones that go there for behaving like they do.
Trick is making it back. Many don't.
The use of the word crazy or insane is weird for me. The main reason for this is my firm belief that everyone (with little or no exeption) is insane. EVERYONE. That includes you and me. Our brains evolved one too many chemicals to soak in, and the result is insanity.
Jellyfish evolved poison. Birds evolved flight. We are insane.
There may somewhere be a sane person but I imagine to us "norms" they would seem so insane that we couldn't understand them. Maybe certain Autistic people that get brushed under the rug are there. Maybe a homeless man that talks to himself has reached sanity, and homelessness is his separation from the machine.
Those were all hypothetical. I have no place to say whats what. All i've ever seen is this side of the fence.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on December 10, 2006, 02:45:52 PM
The use of the word crazy or insane is weird for me. The main reason for this is my firm belief that everyone (with little or no exeption) is insane. EVERYONE. That includes you and me. Our brains evolved one too many chemicals to soak in, and the result is insanity.
Jellyfish evolved poison. Birds evolved flight. We are insane.
There may somewhere be a sane person but I imagine to us "norms" they would seem so insane that we couldn't understand them. Maybe certain Autistic people that get brushed under the rug are there. Maybe a homeless man that talks to himself has reached sanity, and homelessness is his separation from the machine.
Those were all hypothetical. I have no place to say whats what. All i've ever seen is this side of the fence.
so if insane becomes the standard, then the word insane is pointless
just like how 'common sense' seems to be uncommon
you prolly dont even have to consider the word anymore
everybody has a perception of the world and there are certain tendencies or commonly shared perceptions that loosely form 'society'
or so it seems
i think what hunters talking about is maybe "unstable"
and in that I kind of understand what he's talking about
the word "insane" to me should be reserved for people who can't distiquish from reality cause their brain juice is all fucked up
you know people who "really" think their George Washington or Batman, or run down the streat naked cause the little gnomes that live in under their bed soak poison in their clothing at night
of course these are just semantics
and im definately not the greatest commander of the english language
:-)
I think the word has meaning still, it's just that everyone's a hypocrite.
Here's a scenario:
George watches the TV and sees a news story about a young man who killed his girlfriend's family and then himself because she cheated on him. "Crazy people," George says to himself,"getting all bent out of shape and going completely overboard over such a little thing. No need to murder 8 people because of a little infidelity. Oh well." George then goes to multi-million dollar temple down the street to talk to an invisible man that lives in the sky.
People do it every day. They see others as crazy then go crazy themselves. I'll see someone condemn racism, then talk about "killing a faggot" in the same breathe. Most every single person has some irration little thing, or some arbitrary little rule they follow like religion.
Look hard enough and you'll see yours.
If funcionality is your standard, however, I see your point. I've been living outside of normal society in a way for a few years, so maybe this is all just the ramblings of a madman.
According to me it is.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on December 10, 2006, 07:53:19 PM
If funcionality is your standard, however, I see your point. I've been living outside of normal society in a way for a few years, so maybe this is all just the ramblings of a madman.
According to me it is.
dont underestimate the people in this forum man
some people could be so far beyond normal society they dont even bother mentioning it anymore
i agree with your perspective about how confused society is
everybody feels like they have a leg up on the other person and are quick to point out the inconsistencies of others
and as you 'look hard enough and see yours', you begin to stop being so inconsistent
it is nothing short of dangerous to say one thing and do another
Quote from: hunter s.durden on December 10, 2006, 07:53:19 PM
I think the word has meaning still, it's just that everyone's a hypocrite.
Here's a scenario:
George watches the TV and sees a news story about a young man who killed his girlfriend's family and then himself because she cheated on him. "Crazy people," George says to himself,"getting all bent out of shape and going completely overboard over such a little thing. No need to murder 8 people because of a little infidelity. Oh well." George then goes to multi-million dollar temple down the street to talk to an invisible man that lives in the sky.
People do it every day. They see others as crazy then go crazy themselves. I'll see someone condemn racism, then talk about "killing a faggot" in the same breathe. Most every single person has some irration little thing, or some arbitrary little rule they follow like religion.
Look hard enough and you'll see yours.
Theyre called beliefs dude and I got none. Nothing I have an opinion about is not subject to change. Beliefs become a problem when they are 'ingrained' eg. The unshakable belief that the guy in the million dollar temple knows whats best for you.
Silly i hope thats not your way of saying you're sane. Insanity, like other diseases, are most dangerous when we don't know we have them. You can't treat what you think you don't have.
Denial.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on December 10, 2006, 09:47:26 PM
Silly i hope thats not your way of saying you're sane. Insanity, like other diseases, are most dangerous when we don't know we have them. You can't treat what you think you don't have.
Denial.
That's a river in egypt to me m8. I can never be completely sane but I can pass myself off as such when confronted. As long as they walk away thinking "Wow man, he's crazy" I've got them where I want 'em.
i dont even know what you mean by sane or insane at this point
all i see are 7 billion people running around, the majority of whom have a reasonable amount of fear in them to keep from changing the way things are being done
as far as i know
insane means that you are not able to 'contribute to the cause' because you dont move the right way
sane means you agree with the rest of the people and act accordingly
Quote from: LHX on December 10, 2006, 09:55:03 PM
i dont even know what you mean by sane or insane at this point
all i see are 7 billion people running around, the majority of whom have a reasonable amount of fear in them to keep from changing the way things are being done
as far as i know
insane means that you are not able to 'contribute to the cause' because you dont move the right way
sane means you agree with the rest of the people and act accordingly
It's very hard for me to explain via internet (i'm more adept at conversation). Every person has some sort of deep psychosis, as per the DSM IV definition, as I know it.
I understand that typically insane refers to a comparison versus every other person on the planet, so try to imagine you are an alien. Worshiping invisible men that hate gays. Giving yourself cancer. Destroying other species so we can look pretty. Building big shrines to our ancestors while our brothers go hungry. Hating a man because he was born with more melanin in his skin.
My definition of insanity comes from taking a minute to step outside my monkey brain and really see what an alien would see. Think logically like Spock.
"When you pay 3.19$ for a box of Wheaties with Tiger Woods on the box, he gets a dime. The farmer that grew the wheat gets a nickel."
i see where you are coming from
but some people confront even the deepest darkest psychoses imaginable
there are actually people/beings/things that do not oppress or discriminate
and when it comes to the question of "how do you know you arent just convincing yourself and pulling the wool over your own eyes" etc
the remedy to that is to admit that it may be one of the possibilities
the universe isnt psychotic but it contains the potential for psychosis
we are the same way
the more you understand what it is, it becomes like a place you can visit from time to time