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Topics - Slarti

#1
Or Kill Me / <curious>
July 16, 2005, 03:34:54 AM
if you could think of one book, movie, play, piece of literature (redundancy i know), radio show, interview, quote, reality grid, world model, musical piece, or whatever else you can think of that would change my (me=16 year old naive suburban white boy) view of the world in the most drastic way, what would you choose?
#2
i don't want it roger.
#3
Or Kill Me / i am an addict.
April 30, 2005, 11:17:39 PM
for the past two years i haven't been able to admit it to my self but yes, i am an addict. i am a SLAVE to video games. i'll buy a game, play it hardcore every day for most of my free waking hours for 2weeks to 3 months, depending, and then i'll reallized the game's flaws, boredom sets in, and i decide to stop playing the game. feelings of boredom and lethargy will set in, and i'll spend a day or two moping until i decide on what i should do (which is almost always to buy a new game). every time i've done it i've been increasingly aware of it, but i keep doing it anyway. i am an addict and i need to stop.
#4
Literate Chaotic / Alan Watts
February 09, 2005, 02:54:21 AM
some alan watts stuff.

A lecture on zen
Alan Watts archive at deoxy

there were some online copies of his books but i can't find them anywhere.
#5
Literate Chaotic / alan watts
February 09, 2005, 01:36:38 AM
i got 'book on taboo against knowing who you are' 'buddhism, religion of no religion', and 'what is zen' about halfway done with the buddhism one, it's really awesome and explains buddhism much better than the 'buddhism for dummies' book i got a few years ago. he seems like a really insightful guy, makes buddhism sound a lot better, he have any other good books?
#6
Literate Chaotic / RAW-like authors
January 27, 2005, 11:12:35 PM
i reallized i've read illuminatus 4 times in a row and nothing in between, i need to get off this raw trip, so what are some other books that are head-trippy in the saw way illuminatus is (excluding other raw books)?
#7
Literate Chaotic / illuminatus book summary
January 21, 2005, 11:49:07 PM
from http://rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/sheawilson.illuminatus.shtml

Quote
The Illuminati are a secret society that (DRUGS SEX DRUGS) control everything in the world (SEX DRUGS SEX) including all governments, financial institutions, and (DRUGS SEX DRUGS) intelligence agencies. No, they're not. Well, yes they are but not really. (SEX DRUGS SEX) They originated in Bavaria in 1776 (DRUGS SEX DRUGS). No, actually they go all the way back to Atlantis. No, (SEX DRUGS SEX) Atlantis never really existed. Yes it did. It's not just one society (DRUGS SEX DRUGS), it's a whole bunch of them (SEX DRUGS SEX) together. No, it's just one, and they go all the way back to Atlantis, which never (DRUGS SEX DRUGS) existed, oh yes it did. They've had an uninterrupted existence since 30,000 years ago (SEX DRUGS SEX) -- no they actually only go back as far as the 1800s (DRUGS SEX DRUGS). Fnord.
#8
Or Kill Me / Dear Everyone,
November 11, 2004, 09:38:45 PM
what the HELL is going on?
#9
Or Kill Me / could anarchy work, under any conditions?
November 01, 2004, 01:39:57 AM
As the election approaches, i hear people talking politics everywhere- school, TV, internet, the dinner table....  And when i here people talking about whether bush should win, or whether kerry could win, i always want to (and sometimes do) speak up and say 'who cares who wins, the government is still in the hands of the corporations'.

of course then some prick will say 'okay genius? what's the alternative? ANARCHY? how'd you like anarchy? i bet you'd love it when i bust into your house, beat the crap out of you, and steal all your stuff. anarchy, yeah right' etc etc etc.

and i can't come up with a good response. could anarchy work? or would it always fail as long as humans remain greedy and selfish?
#10
Or Kill Me / anyone still enjoy coming here?
October 28, 2004, 01:22:45 AM
just curious.
#11
Literate Chaotic / wait
October 06, 2004, 09:50:09 PM
if the barking from joe malik's apartment was REALLY shoggoths, why was that??????????????? why would the shoggoths be after malik? do shoggoths work for the Illuminati. what a fizznucking crizzzzzazy book.
#12
Or Kill Me / holy jesus hugh
October 06, 2004, 02:34:26 AM
right a few rants, did we?
#13
Or Kill Me / you should all know
September 04, 2004, 03:33:35 AM
that i am back in my paranoid stage. this is time number 5. even the wise words of sri syadasti cannot save me this time.
#14
Or Kill Me / good bye summer.
August 26, 2004, 01:14:54 AM
tonight is the last night of summer. tomorrow i return to the drone-factory known as school. i will take this moment to be sad.



:(  :(  :(  :(  :(

oh well. at least now i won't be sitting at home all day.
#15
Or Kill Me / Eris
August 15, 2004, 02:38:18 AM
She has come to tell me that i am free. Many years ago, before i was even aware of her consciousness, i was empty. She found me, finding my development approaching completion, but hindered by fear, dogma, misunderstanding, and mental laziness.

I had built for myself a psychic suit of armor, and i had clad myself in it. Now that i am beginning to emerge from the suit, i see that my vision is restricted, my movements clumsy and painful, my skin bruised, and my spirit is broiling in the sun.

She is chaos. She is the substance from which we build rythms. She is the spirit with which we laugh in happy anarchy. She is chaos, she is alive, and she tells me that i am free.
#16
Literate Chaotic / sweet god almighty
August 04, 2004, 03:55:34 AM
How can yog-sogoth be BOTH the key AND the gate? that's CRAZY!!!
#17
Or Kill Me / My computer trip
August 02, 2004, 01:19:47 AM
My computer trip
------------------------

i'm on a bad computer trip. the only thing i really do besides sitting on my comp all day is read occasionally, and i don't even do that as much as i should. i want a non-computer hobby, but i can't think of anything i'd want to do. i think it would be cool to write or draw but i don't have talent in either. i've complained about this before and bella has posted links of some good books on learning to draw, i should get one. i was originally just going to ask you guys what i should do to escape the computer trap i'm in, but i reallize all i have to do is find something else to do. why the fuck is it that hard to do? probably because i've grown a dependency on it, after having it be my main (usually ONLY) source of recreation for at least 4 years now. i have a almost negligible (that's definitely misspelled) social life, and i really don't do much outside of sitting on my ass all day wasting away at the comp. maybe i'm just crazy.
#19
Literate Chaotic / r buckminster fuller.
July 31, 2004, 04:44:58 AM
read about him in illuminatus of course. any of his stuff worth reading? i tried to read something about him online but it started talking about geometric synergetics or something and i was frightened off.
#20
Or Kill Me / Zen
June 21, 2004, 05:33:48 PM
i have taken it upon myself to learn the ways of zen. any help whatsoever would be appreciated. as of now, i have no idea how to start.
#21
Literate Chaotic / don quixote
May 14, 2004, 09:12:21 PM
a true discordian saint. i have not read the book, but the movie i saw (w/ john lithgow) was really good. the end was a classic example of order triumphing over disorder, evil over good, when quixote was convinced that he was not a knight. i almost cried.
#22
Literate Chaotic / WAKING LIFE!!!!!
May 13, 2004, 10:34:48 PM
i saw this on HBO and it was SO AWESOME. it's an indipedent film that's really trippy and good. anyone else seen it?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005YU1O/qid=1084484056/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/102-5080822-7340142?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
#23
Literate Chaotic / CATCH 22
May 10, 2004, 09:02:19 PM
i'm about halfway through, and it's so cool that i want to throw up.
#24
Or Kill Me / need some advice
April 23, 2004, 12:51:43 AM
my quality of life is down. i mean, i'm perfectly happy (more or less), and i'm not sick or poor or homeless or anything, but still...

life is kind of monotonous. i just sort of go to school and come home and do stuff. i have few hobbies. right now i just sort of mosey around doing stuff with astrojax (astrojax.com , it's sort of a toy that's similar to juggling).  

any suggestions, comments, or ideas? i don't really know what my problem is (if i have one at all), or what's wrong. maybe i'm just a stupid middleclass suburban white boy who's dissillusioned with the world..
#25
swear words...
cussing..
profanity...

WHO CARES?

i don't know if this is how it is in the _/ real \_ world, but i'm sick of the taboo that everyone around me (besides most teenagers) has on words like { fuck, shit, asshole, son of a bitch, cocksucker, pussy, hell, etc }. When you say one, it's like the world explodes... who cares.. it's not armageddon.... it's just a word. When i mention this, most 'adults' retaliate with "well, the word stands for something bad"- that's not good enough for me. Words only have meaning that we assign to them, and, um, i ran out of things to say.

Verily so! or not!
#26
i dont want to wait
i don't want it to come to me in a meditation

i want my illumination
i want my illumination now.

or do i have to work for it?
is that the whole idea of the thing?

illuminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulli
illuminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulli
illuminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulli
illuminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulli
illuminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulliilluminationnoitanimulli


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God Called In Sick Today
by AFI

Lets admire the pattern forming
Murderous filigree
I'm caught in the twisting of the vine
Go ascend with ivy, climbing
Ignore and leave for me the headstone crumbling behind
I cant help my laughter as she cries
My soul brings tears to angelic eyes
Lets amend the classic story, close it so beautifully,
I'll let animosity unwind
Steal away the darkened pages, hidden so shamefully
I'll still feel the violence of the lines
I cant stand my laughter as they cry
My soul brings tears to angelic eyes
And miles away my mother cries
Omnipotence, nurturing malevolence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"No Poetic Device"
by AFI

I've been dreaming.
I was lucid.
I was dreaming blood was seeping from my pores.
Who'd believe that it was all my own decision?
Cracked faces and medicated smiles.
Set fire to my home before I turned and walked back in.
For even needle open my chest and insert ten pins.
I just anticipate what awaits when I awake... break.
I die in my daydreams.
The gardens have all been overgrown.
I pushed my hand through the thorns to crush the final rose.
A deadly secret only I suffer to know.
I can't eradicate what awaits when I awake... break.
I die in my day dreams.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Narrative Of Soul Against Soul"
by AFI

To the wounded:
I have seen the self image
they've forced you to reduce to shattered glass,
with the only remaining value lying in it's jagged edges.
But the few who warrant waking for await their recognition.
No fear of death but with fear of life,
your weakness kills everyone.
So live.
Angels for everyone.
For no lack of searching I can't seem to find one.
Angels in everyone.
What of all their promises?
Can't seem to find much more than lies.
Angels in anyone.
A permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Before I'd lay me down to rest,
I'd throw away everything to live.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

thou art god, right?


<insert other priceless witty philosophical stuff here>

____
|___|  /* and behold, for inside the box, lies
|___|      your hopes and dreams for always and
             forever */


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

REM fnord.bas
CLS
do
print "FUCK"
loop

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()(()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()())())()(()()

//Fnord.c

include <stdio.h>
void main()
{
   do
     { printf("FUCK"); }
return 0;
}


()()()()()()()()()(()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()(()()())(())()()

// Jesus loves the little children,
// All the children of the world.
// white and white, white and white
// They are precious in His sight,
// Jesus loves the little children of the world.



Quote from: internet explorer404: file not found. make sure you didn't fuck up the url, asshole.
#27
Or Kill Me / morality
February 06, 2004, 03:25:50 PM
if we are 'free' as you all say- how do we define our morality? from off the top of our head?

say you hated someone, but he didn't really do anything bad, you just really hated him. if you were in some situation where you could kill him and it was impossible for the blame to be traced to you. impossible.

would you kill him?

christian/islamic/judaic morality wouldn't let us... but personal morality...
is there a way to justify killing like that? or would you just say that it's plain wrong to kill someone. because right and wrong are relative terms, wouldn't you say?
#28
Or Kill Me / BLOODY FUCKING HELL
January 24, 2004, 12:33:55 AM
talking on yahoo chat (http://chat.yahoo.com) does wonders for the mind!

buddhism chat, christian chat, the coven of the golden dragon, these chat rooms are so fun.

in the last hour, i've had discussions on

god
objective vs subjective reality
objective vs subjective reality
the amount of truth in the bible
discordianism
chaos magick
religions
buddhism
taoism

and the best thing is, if your in any philosophy or religion chat room, at least every 5 minutes, a fundie christian comes to preach at you. we here in the buddhist chatroom have fought of 5 fundies in the last 20 minutes!
#29
Or Kill Me / An Essay on Order and Chaos
January 15, 2004, 01:48:29 PM
it's really good. HA! tricked you! i bet you thought that i actually wrote something for once, EH! i found this over at chaosmatrix.org.

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/oc.html

QuoteOrder and Chaos Essay
from Frater Kali
Here is a little gem I found to "tweak" your minds. The logic is sound and easily read. I do not know who the author is or I would give him full credit. I found it in a public library trash can with the cover torn off. It was a photocopy format.
I find it a good thing to read when I'm feeling a little cocky. Have fun.

93 93/93

Frater Kali



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The greatest pity of today's world is that intellectualism is regarded as the sole property of intellectuals. Ask the average Westerner (or Easterner) about anything more profound than the contents of his breakfast, and he will tell you that it is above his head. If he does not say this, most likely he believes it, and is lying to you."

"The irony lies in the fact that it is not true."

(P.G., 1979)

CONTENTS:
Introduction
Fit the First: Bases.
Fit the Second: Is History?
Fit the Third: Time and Why it Probably Isn't.
Fit the Fourth: Epic Fantasy.
Fit the Fifth: Of Mind and Movies.
Fit the Sixth: Thought and Free Will.
Fit the Seventh: Hello the Tape Recorder.
Fit the Eighth: Where Are You?
Epilogue: The Epiplectic Bicycle.
Bibliography.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


INTRODUCTION
       Brain is in the bed.  Mind is the sleeper.
                                         (Mentor)

This work you are about to read is not philosophy. Philosophy is an attempt to understand what cannot be understood. Even its practitioners concede that they are trying to do the impossible. If they thought otherwise, they would call themselves scientists.
(Already I hear your angry denials. I will not argue definitions with anyone. If you wish to call yourself a philosopher whose goals are attainable, go ahead. But be aware that if I use the term "scientist", I am talking to you.)

This is a work of science. It will draw conclusions from accepted science and clear logic. If you cannot understand it, it is because your mind will not let go of its prejudices about what is "really" true.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FIT THE FIRST: BASES
       When the sleeper awakes, the eye must open.
                                          (Mentor)

The first law is this: A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
(I know we have too many first laws around already, but this is my book and I'm going to call that the first law throughout. So there!)

It has been said that solipsism is the only logically defensible religion. Solipsism is the belief that the universe exists only as a product of one's own mind. All you know are the sensations that enter your mind. The sensations you receive are all consistent with an external universe that follows certain physical laws, but that is no proof that the universe is independent of your mind.

This is what is meant by the first law. If a question cannot be resolved between two alternatives by any measurement or distinction you can sense, the answer is both alternatives, and neither - they are effectively the same. It can make no difference to your view of the world.

This statement is curiously paralleled in modern physics. It is summed up in the thought-experiment of Schroedinger's Cat:

In an airtight room with one shuttered window is placed a radiation meter. In the meter's detector is a small quantity of radium - just enough that the probability of one or more atoms decaying in a ten-minute period is 50 percent, and the probability of no atoms decaying in that period is 50 percent. The meter is connected to a phial of cyanide gas; if a decaying atom is registered, the phial will open. Also in the room is a cat. Turn on the radiation meter by remote control, wait ten minutes, and turn it off. What is the status of the cat?

According to quantum physics, low-level events such as the decay of an individual atom are inherently unpredictable. Therefore, according to the mathematics of quantum physics, the status of the radium is neither decayed nor un-decayed - until it is observed, at which time it becomes definitely one or the other. Such uncertainty about a single atom does not disturb us, but here uncertainty has been magnified into the fate of a living being. The cat is neither alive nor dead - the difference makes no difference - until an observer opens the shutter and looks.

Of course, someone always asks the question: "Who counts as an observer?" Do you? Does a fellow scientist? A child? A rat? An insect? The cat itself?

This question is easily resolved. If another being looks in the window, nothing has changed for you. It could be said that the other knows the cat's status, but you are then as uncertain of the other's knowledge as of the cat's life itself. The mathematical expression of the cat does not resolve for you until you observe. The state of the universe depends on your consciousness - solipsism.

Of course, for all practical purposes a solipsistic universe behaves the same as a classical external universe. It makes no difference to you which is real, and so, by the first law, there is no difference between them. Is not logic wonderful?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FIT THE SECOND: IS HISTORY?
       When the sleeper's eye opens, she leaves the bed.
                                                (Mentor)

What do you know of the past?
Memory.
How do you know your memory is true?
I cannot.

If you cannot tell the difference between true memory and false, is there a difference?

Another result of quantum physics is the statement that the law of conservation of matter and energy can be violated, briefly. Mass/energy can appear out of nowhere, as long as it disappears soon. (Very soon. The amount of mass/energy appearing, in joules, multiplied by the number of seconds it exists, must be less than about 10(-35).) (This is another example of the first law. There is no way to detect such a minute event, so it makes no difference whether or not it happens, so it might as well happen - so it can.)

Although this appearing matter is temporary, there is no limit to the number of times it can appear, even continuously. It can appear in any form, or appear in one form and disappear from another. Anything can happen, anything can change --- a one-in-a-trillion chance, to be sure, but it is possible. There is no way to be sure of what the future will be, or even what the past was. What assurance do you have that you did not appear out of nowhere a half-second ago, complete with memories and a social security number? None (other than the assurance that you'll never know the difference, so it doesn't matter.)

Even this paranoid view of the universe is not quite accurate. If the universe has meaning only in relation to your mind, how could physical laws have created you? This confusion stems from the use of quantum laws as applied to a universe which exists externally, even if it is not perfectly measurable. It cannot be resolved; the universe, whether real or relative, contains (gives the sensations of?) many physicists (figments?) who have found evidence supporting these laws.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FIT THE THIRD: TIME, AND WHY IT PROBABLY ISN'T
                 To knit, one must first shear.
                                       (Mentor)

If there is no certainty about what the past was, and what the future will be, there is no certainty about what time is.
The Buddhist allegory of Indra's Net may illustrate this point. An infinite net of threads runs through the universe. At each intersection is a being, and each being is a crystal bead. The Light of Existence shines through all, each bead reflecting all the others.

To adapt the story slightly, consider each bead to be a different arrangement of matter and energy in the universe. There are infinitely many of these. The threads show the passage of time; a universe-state is connected by a strong thread to a universe-state it is likely to change to in the next instant. For example, if the universe contained nothing but two iron spheres a foot apart, gravity would slowly pull the spheres together. So the bead representing that universe would be strongly connected to the bead representing the universe with the spheres slightly closer together.

Since there is a small chance that random molecular motion will move the spheres apart, the first bead would be weakly connected to the bead representing the spheres farther apart.

Notice that this net is still. All of time is represented in it all at once; there is no "spark" that flows along the threads as time passes.

But we have proven that any universe-state can lead to any other. Every bead is connected to every other bead, by a weaker or stronger thread.

So time connects everything to everything. There is a most probable path of time, certainly, but probability is not certainty. An absolute, definite flow of time is a useless concept.

FIT ASIDE:
The gut reaction now is to say: "Even if we can't know what the past was, wasn't there still a definite past?" Indeed there is (was) not. Remember the first law, and Schoedinger's Cat. What you see is what you get. What you know is what is; what you do not know is not.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FIT THE FOURTH: EPIC FANTASY
       Falling can't hurt.  Now landing, that's a
       different matter.  One must know how to land.
                                            (Mentor)

No single future, no single past. What does this leave of history? How much of what we know as "history" could have been different if single atomic collisions had gone differently? Delaying the combustion of the gunpowder in a rifle by a fraction of a second could have changed history in any number of battles. One sperm cell is nudged slightly by a surge of molecular motion, and Frau Hitler conceives a daughter instead of a son. A cosmic ray zigs instead of zags into primeval DNA half a billion years ago, and unicorns evolve. And all these histories are equally real ?± out there, somewhere, one might say; a history to match any story by any author you could name, from Tolkien to Oliver North. King Arthur is as real as you. Think about it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FIT THE FIFTH: OF MIND AND MOVIES
       The sleeper dreams the universe.  
       What will happen when he awakes?
                               (Mentor)

In this still-life picture of a universe that encompasses all of the real and possible time, what are you? All this deduction seems to be flatly contradicted by the way we can all sense time flowing.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth," Sherlock Holmes said. If time is an illusion, a true sense of time is impossible, so the flowing of time we all sense is an illusion, however improbable that seems to you.

And what does that sense consist of, anyway? You remember things changing, you see them moving, so you insist time is real. But is it not true that you see only one instant at any given time? The scene you saw an instant before is only in your memory, however real it may seem, and memory is static. You cannot see motion or change ?± you can only deduce them from fixed memories. Motion deduced from fixedness ?± does this not sound strange?

In fact, at any given instant, you are only a set of fixed memories. "Thought," as you know it, is the progression of memories interacting through time; if time is an illusion, what is "thought"?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FIT THE SIXTH: THOUGHT AND FREE WILL
         Matter is the pattern that mind makes.
                                       (Mentor)

In the strict quantum-mechanical interpretation, thought is not defined; nothing takes place in your brain other than waves of chemical change moving down nerve fibers. Of course, you think you know that you think; but how can one expect an unbiased opinion from chemical waves which = are, so to speak, trying to prove their own competence?
The classic argument between believers in free will and proponents of determinism is now easily resolved. Of course, the patterns of nerve impulses are determined by the laws of physics, although those laws do include the unpredictability of quantum randomness. But free will is also included, for what is free will but the ability of mind to act by itself, under its own influence, based on what it knows? Certainly the nerve impulses, chasing around the fibers of the brain, are influenced by nothing but each other and the input of the senses.

I have, on occasion, heard a theory stating that while physical laws determine the nerve-impulse patterns of the brain, the mind can still have free will, because the mind influences the random factors of quantum mechanics, causing the nerve impulses to go where it wills. I do not know whether this theory was conceived out of a fanatic need to believe in a "soul" separate from the body, or simply an inability to tell cause from effect.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FIT THE SEVENTH: HELLO THE TAPE RECORDER
   Mind, conciousness, awareness, spirit, thought,
       perception, feeling, memory, imagination, and
       intention:  These are the fragments that delude us.
                                                  (Mentor)

Of course, this does that our notions of the mind are totally unfounded; certainly there is something one can recognize as a concious mind, and see that it exists at the other end of a telephone link, and does not exist in a reel of tape, however much a recorded voice may sound like a real one. Precisely how do we tell the difference between a person and a recording? By its responsiveness, of course -- a person can engage in active conversation, while a tape recorder simply blathers on regardless of what one says to it.
Now remember the many roles of probability in the universe. Even if you are talking with a voice over a telephone, how can you be sure the voice is not a lucky tape recorder -- one that just happens to say the right thing at the right time? The probability of this goes down exponentially as the conversation goes on, but the possibility is always there. Recalling the first law and Schroedinger's cat, you can only say that the object you are talking to is 99.999 percent human and 0.001 percent tape recorder -- or, equivalently, that in 99.999 percent of the universes branching from yours, you are talking to a human, and in 0.001 percent, you are talking to a tape recorder.

("Universes branching from yours" is used in the common (sort of) sense, of the time-paths of highest probability leading away from your bead in the Net. Don't try to use my own arguments against me.)

A tape recorder is an object that does not respond to anything that it hears at all, and a human responds (hopefully) to everything -- are there other possibilities? What about a dog? A catatonic human? An ELIZA program? A deaf human? All these have different levels of responsiveness; clearly there is some sort of ranking we use in determining whether there is an intelligent mind behind the voice. But any ranking can be extended, in both directions. Certainly one's own mind is the one whose responses are easiest to feel, and one's own mind is most clearly perceived.

Now extend the ranking downwards. An insect barely responds at all to anything, so we consider it unintelligent. What of a chair? No response at all, certainly? Look into the tiny vibrations and ripples in its structure -- surely some of those could be interpreted as a response in Morse code. They are, of course, drowned in a flood of Morse gibberish, but you might say that a tiny portion of the chair is responding intelligently.

The point here is that intelligence, like reality, is what the viewer makes of it; the closer you look, the more likely you are to find anything you want. A lucky tape recorder is an artificial intelligence (although hardly practical, if you have to wait trillions of years to get appropriately lucky.)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FIT THE EIGHTH: WHERE ARE YOU?
                    Mind is a local phenomenon.
                                       (Mentor)

A final question: Where are you?
Consider that there are an infinite number of "timelines" which contain versions of you. Some of them even contain versions of you thinking exactly the same thoughts you yourself are thinking. Say, for example, that a thug cuts your throat... now. You die in seconds. But there is, somewhere, a version of you -- healthy -- with exactly the same memories, up to the point of death, followed by normal conciousness. Is that person, in some sense, a reincarnation of you? She would certainly think so. But would your mind actually move into her body? As usual, it makes no difference; the effect is the same.

And the same effect takes place even if the thug doesn't cut cut your throat. (As, presumably, he didn't.) There is a version of you sitting on the shore of the Ganges, with exactly the same memories as you, wondering how she got there. She is as much a reincarnation of you as the one with the uncut throat. Reincarnation before death -- an odd thought, no?



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EPILOGUE: THE EPIPLECTIC BICYCLE
       There is a reason we close the eyes of the dead.
                                               (Mentor)

The end of another ten pages of rumination. Hopefully, you have learned enough to question the answers that "everyone knows." The purpose was not really to spread my answers; it was to show you that the universe is more bizarre than we can imagine, and that anyone can uncover this bizarrity -- given a willingness to think.


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BIBLIOGRAPHY
       The eye is the door through which the material
       universe enters.  How then does it leave?
                                             (Mentor)

Alhazred, Abdul. Necronomicon. Miskatonic Press, 1955.
Emolpho, F. D. "Effect Without a Cause". Morrow, 1984.

Gahtmahan, P. "The Pantheon Risibuli". Beta Ki, 1981.

Hofstadter, Douglas R. Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. Basic Books, 1979.

Hofstadter, Douglas R. Metamagical Themas. Basic Books, 1985.

Mitty, W. "The Handbook of Propaganda and Mind Control". Chicago Press, 1955.

Smullyan, Raymond M. The Tao is Silent. Harper & Row, 1977.

Smullyan, Raymond M. This Book Needs No Title Prentice Hall, 1980.

Swigart, R., and Fregger, B. "Portal". Activision, 1986.

#30
Or Kill Me / dotdotdot
January 15, 2004, 12:56:13 AM
i wanted to write something with meaning. but i couldn't come up with anything yet. so i'll do this instead:

2351346561545126576476886989785675613464843132164984654574516
464874125474989521321316545468748946545198194987343673545379

4645649841519819171229497475495489489498498948484
#31
Or Kill Me / dont you just hate it when
December 31, 2003, 09:43:01 PM
don't you just hate it when your neighbors have a family reunioun so their irresponsible yuppie family comes charging into the neighborhood? And then they have a have a big golden retriever puppy that leaps out of the car and runs straight into your yard to take a crap! And then, the yuppie family comes chasing after it and LO AND BEHOLD it's that stupid girl from your honors bio class that doesn't understand electrons!


why do annoying people always have to show up and bother me? I was in the middle of microwaving a chicken patty and reading about class inheritance in C++. I need a glass box with soda to hide in.
#32
Or Kill Me / The Four Eyed Ninja
December 10, 2003, 12:55:29 AM
#33
Or Kill Me / HA
December 07, 2003, 10:38:12 PM
HAHA! i can lock this!
#34
at this url is a thread on the ilovephilosophy.com message boards that really spoke to me

Quote
Yesterday, two Mormon missionaries knocked on my door and attempted to sell me belief in their religion. As I listened to their spiel, I pondered whether I should be the one enlightening them; a very pretentious thought I admit. As I listened to these two gentlemen, I realized that they sincerely believed in God. This single belief brings them peace and happiness. Of course I could have began to elucidate the countless errors in the Book of Mormon, but what purpose would this serve? Perhaps I would feel a great sense of intellectual superiority over two young men that have probably never questioned their faith, and for this reason alone would be incapable of defending it. I proceeded to kindly tell them that I believed no one ultimately knows whether God exists or not, and interestingly enough, they were able to accept my position, as I can accept theirs. While I believe they are completely ignorant and investing a great deal of their time believing in a religion created by a drunk, they conversely feel great sympathy that I will burn in hell.

But I do believe that we each wished the best for each other, and regardless of what religion you believe in or don't, this is what matters. I am not so sure if the ends justify the means, but if believing in an intangible thing brings you happiness and shows you how to lead a successful life, and repectfully treat others, perhaps your belief has served its purpose and was not a waste of time.
#35
Or Kill Me / Lets talk about slavery
November 23, 2003, 04:26:34 AM
a big topic (and one of the reasons of my second mental breakdown) on this board is Slavery. Roger talks a lot about it, and i guess some other people do to, but, what are we talking about?

to what level are we slaves? just as tax-paying obedient consumers, or on a level deeper than that?
#36
Or Kill Me / I HATE SOCIETY
November 21, 2003, 07:35:23 PM
i've decided that every problem we have ever discussed on this board is caused by SOCIETY. if there wasn't society, there wouldn't be any problems. maybe as soon as i'm 18 i'll move to the woods somewhere and become a hermit.

Religion -> based on society
Government -> based on society

Those are the two major problems we face right?

SOCIETY IS BAD!
#37
Literate Chaotic / Chaos Magic
November 16, 2003, 01:05:55 AM
I've spent a couple of hours looking up chaos magic, and from what i've read it looks like occult discordianism. Just wondering if anyone had anything to say about it. it looks pretty cool.
#38
Or Kill Me / Slarti is Dead
November 15, 2003, 10:25:13 PM
Slartibartfast is Dead

'Have you ever heard of the madman who on a bright morning lighted a lantern and ran to the market-place calling out unceasingly: "I seek Slartibartfast! I seek Slartibartfast!" As there were many people standing about who did not believe in Slartibartfast, he caused a great deal of amusement. Why? is he lost? said one. Has he strayed away like a child? said another. Or does he keep himself hidden? Is he afraid of us? Has he taken a sea voyage? Has he emigrated? - the people cried out laughingly, all in a hubbub.
The insane man jumped into their midst and transfixed them with his glances. "Where is Slartibartfast gone?" he called out. "I mean to tell you! We have killed him, you and I! We are all his murderers!'
#39
Literate Chaotic / Terry Pratchett
November 03, 2003, 01:19:30 AM
If i were to get into reading Terry Pratchett, what books should i start out with?
#40
Literate Chaotic / Nietzsche
April 29, 2003, 11:04:38 PM
I just started reading stuff by Nietzsche,  and was wondering anyone has any suggestions for what of his stuff i should read. Right now, i'm reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra.