so I was doing a little light reading this morning...you know, just catching up on world events...one story in particular has caught my attention the last couple of days...it gave me an unlikely glimmer of hope the other day when a bunch of National Guard reservists (attending what was supposed to be a "pep rally", more or less) began directing some pretty pointed questions at Donald Rumsfeld, mostly concerning the lack of armor for troops and vehicles on the ground in Iraq. Of course, the spin machines on both sides of the same coin were immediately revved into high gear...the administration's response was that they were spending a ton of money on improving the situation already and they wer edoing all they could, they just couldn't get the contractors to deliver what they needed fast enough. Now it comes out this morning that the contractors in question have the material and production capability to produce a shitload more than they have been, it seems the Defense Department just never bothered to put in any orders for more armor. Now, I wasn't born yesterday...I've known since I was a little kid that the people who comprise the higher levels of the federal government are there to look out for their best interests, not mine or yours. However, I've always been more of the opinion that, good or bad, what we had going was still a whole lot better than anything any other country was doing...even a bad American President was still a positive example to the rest of the world...maybe a little nepotism, influence peddling, financial hoo-hah, all the perks and bennies that are part of the package, but nothing really intentionally inhuman or immoral. And then came the current administration. I sensed a different kind of malfeasance from them. I knew that in addition to the usual petty thievery, they were trying to implement an expansive re-engineering project on the american (and indeed, the world's) political landscape. And for the first time, it seriously occurs to me: we are NOT the good guys. And THEN it hits me like a ton of bricks...we never WERE the good guys. NEVER. Why did the original founders of the colonies come here from Britain? They came to avoid religious persecution. Why was their religion so heavily persecuted? BECAUSE THEY WERE INSUFFERABLE ASSHOLES. The people who founded the colonies that later became this country were assholes. Eventually, there were so many assholes that more land was needed, so, in a display of assholishness still unmatched to this day, our forefathers modernized the art of genocide. Soon, people in other countries learned of our land of opportunity. And all those that were too lazy, shiftless, or criminally-minded to have carved out a decent existence in their country of origin (read: assholes) came to America to try their hand at our brand of assholism. So there you have it. Our country...our entire way of life was founded by ASSHOLES. I guess the only real surprise is that anyone is surprised at what's going on now. Oh...excuse me, please, I have to answer the doorbell...
"Hello?"
"Homeland Security! Open the door!"
...hmm, well, looks like that's all the time we have for today, and remember, when you reach the inevitable conclusion that WE'RE THE ASSHOLES, do the smart thing and keep it to yourself.
8)
RAH!
8)
Unfortunately no country has a particulary nice History, regardless of who they are. The only reason we see the "Western Powers" as better is due to the old adage that "history is written by the victors". I'm sure if you asked the Russians in the early 80s if they thought they were the good guys they would have said yes. A country that had tried to build a better state for the workers, that had been invaded three times in 20 yeaars by powers seeking their destruction and had successfully fought back the ide of Fascism and won WWII. Its very mich a matter of perspective and its hard enough to view from the inside in any manner, let alone objectively.
I was speaking with a lecturer in International Relations today, just about current happenings etc and the funny thing was, he was saying similar stuff. He is a pro-American right-wing Australian, hates apeasers, fully supported the Iraqi War, like the free market etc
And he thing was even he was saying that the current administration were a bunch of criminals and worse. In theory you would expect him to support them, given his sympathies. But it seems these guys have even given up the pretence of legitimacy. I will be the first to admit than any superpower does take drastic, sometimes grossly disproportianate action. But thats not it with the new guys, they seem to court trouble, they seem intent on ripping up that rather nice Constitution and they seem intent on lining their own pocket at the expense of collapsing the economy, which wont only affect their country, but practically everywhere.
They've upset the balance of power, they dont seem to understand that alliances will form against you if you get too strong, thats the way the international system works. Instead they'd rather a show of power to destroy any counterbalance, say in Europe or Southeast Asia that would develop. Thats why they decide to use multimillion pound bombs ona third world country, to show "this is what we do to punish our foes." The nice smart laser missile sytems were a warning to the leaders of any country, not as such out of humanitarian concern. It was a message to say, "we can even target individuals if we want."
Ah fuck I've started a rant, this probably doesnt even make sense. Come the morining I'll see if it still makes sense and delete it otherwise.
Makes sense. Kinda the opposite of the "all the rugged individualists came here and that's why we're superior to Europe" theory. Wonder if it's a good thing or not that not all the assholes came here.
i thought everyone who came here did it because teh rest of europpe was too kinky or soemthing...
Rugged individualist often = asshole.
YMMV.
Oh, look!
The little kitties are starting to open their eyes.
Isn't that cute?
BTW, Scribe, when you get up in the morning and want to delete what you wrote?
Too late.
Quote from: ScribeUnfortunately no country has a particulary nice History, regardless of who they are. The only reason we see the "Western Powers" as better is due to the old adage that "history is written by the victors". I'm sure if you asked the Russians in the early 80s if they thought they were the good guys they would have said yes. A country that had tried to build a better state for the workers, that had been invaded three times in 20 yeaars by powers seeking their destruction and had successfully fought back the ide of Fascism and won WWII. Its very mich a matter of perspective and its hard enough to view from the inside in any manner, let alone objectively.
I was speaking with a lecturer in International Relations today, just about current happenings etc and the funny thing was, he was saying similar stuff. He is a pro-American right-wing Australian, hates apeasers, fully supported the Iraqi War, like the free market etc
And he thing was even he was saying that the current administration were a bunch of criminals and worse. In theory you would expect him to support them, given his sympathies. But it seems these guys have even given up the pretence of legitimacy. I will be the first to admit than any superpower does take drastic, sometimes grossly disproportianate action. But thats not it with the new guys, they seem to court trouble, they seem intent on ripping up that rather nice Constitution and they seem intent on lining their own pocket at the expense of collapsing the economy, which wont only affect their country, but practically everywhere.
They've upset the balance of power, they dont seem to understand that alliances will form against you if you get too strong, thats the way the international system works. Instead they'd rather a show of power to destroy any counterbalance, say in Europe or Southeast Asia that would develop. Thats why they decide to use multimillion pound bombs ona third world country, to show "this is what we do to punish our foes." The nice smart laser missile sytems were a warning to the leaders of any country, not as such out of humanitarian concern. It was a message to say, "we can even target individuals if we want."
Ah fuck I've started a rant, this probably doesnt even make sense. Come the morining I'll see if it still makes sense and delete it otherwise.
Quote from: Bob the MediocreMakes sense. Kinda the opposite of the "all the rugged individualists came here and that's why we're superior to Europe" theory. Wonder if it's a good thing or not that not all the assholes came here.
The problem isn't individuals its people who consitently bleat on about their individuality. I've had a few discussions with friends about this lately, and my thoughts are people who claim to be individual and make a show of it are normally more insecure and are actually more conformist within a new subculture.
Quote from: ScribeQuote from: Bob the MediocreMakes sense. Kinda the opposite of the "all the rugged individualists came here and that's why we're superior to Europe" theory. Wonder if it's a good thing or not that not all the assholes came here.
The problem isn't individuals its people who consitently bleat on about their individuality. I've had a few discussions with friends about this lately, and my thoughts are people who claim to be individual and make a show of it are normally more insecure and are actually more conformist within a new subculture.
All together, now!
Gargantuan crowd: "We're all individuals!"
Lone, meek voice: "I'm not."
</Life of Brian>
I have to agree with you here, Scribe. There's very little that's harder to tolerate than someone who's dead-convinced that they're SO individual because they happen to be a rabid part of whatever countercultural fad is most chic at the moment. This includes Discordians, btw. Is there a pat, derogatory term for recently-converted Discordians that run around mouthing off about "jaking" and wearing shirts with the Chao on it and telling everyone how enlightened they are? Like, Appleheads or something? There should be.
Quote from: gnimbleyOh, look!
The little kitties are starting to open their eyes.
Isn't that cute?
They're sweet when they open their eyes, aren't they?
Fortunately, or unfortunately, I was raised by some of the biggest assholes around.
So I've always been extremely cynical and well aware that we're all assholes and monsters.
It's really a shame, but there it is.
QuoteThere's very little that's harder to tolerate than someone who's dead-convinced that they're SO individual because they happen to be a rabid part of whatever countercultural fad is most chic at the moment. This includes Discordians, btw. Is there a pat, derogatory term for recently-converted Discordians that run around mouthing off about "jaking" and wearing shirts with the Chao on it and telling everyone how enlightened they are? Like, Appleheads or something? There should be.
Oh, yes, the "Hot Topic" crowd who didn't give a shit about Foamy when he was just a web squerrel, but now that he's got mall-merch they all go gaga over it....or Madonna with her fucking Kabbalistic Konsumerism mouthing off about Israel on talk shows...(psst: Hey, Madge, you're not Jewish OR British, ok? Kill the accent!)
Here's my idea: Since you mention the Chao...well, Chao = Singular of Chaos = sounds like "cow" and what happens to posers, they quit, they disappear, they get verbally slaughtered by more experienced Discordians for their ignorance, and what happens to cows? They get slaughtered, and turned into cheeseburgers. So I would call them "Cheeseburgers."
:twisted:
I feel like Discordianism is like that old "Kroz" game I used to play where there were deeper and deeper levels, and you could always skip a level and go down further, but you'd be killed off in like 2 seconds because you weren't ready; sometimes it feels very shallow and silly but then other times a little light goes on on my head, and I'll see how deep it really goes, and follow it down.
You just can't fake the light. Wisdom is not impressed by accessories.
(That said, I'd really dig a Hand of Eris pendant, regardless...)
Funny you should mention Madonna, she lives very close to my home, in fact my mum knows the sister of someone who used to work there for her. Ah the stories I could tell and be bankruted for...
Also, about the "cheeseburgers", isnt that in part who the Discordian Jihad should be against? I admit I am fairly new to the whole thing though I have a slight head start due to (in theory) studying Philosophy and so am going by websites that are mostly never updated and odd tracts I find in random places (like the one that bought me here actually).
But I am willing to learn, an important trait I picked up from martial arts training. Never think you know it all. Never tire of learning. Once you think you have learnt it all, or think you are "enlightened" then it will elude you. You will have lost the "true way" (my reading of Musashi is showing here, isnt it?). The way is never attained, one can only live through it, it is not an object to be seized and coveted.
Quote from: Scribe
Also, about the "cheeseburgers", isnt that in part who the Discordian Jihad should be against? I admit I am fairly new to the whole thing though I have a slight head start due to (in theory) studying Philosophy and so am going by websites that are mostly never updated and odd tracts I find in random places (like the one that bought me here actually).
But I am willing to learn, an important trait I picked up from martial arts training. Never think you know it all. Never tire of learning. Once you think you have learnt it all, or think you are "enlightened" then it will elude you. You will have lost the "true way" (my reading of Musashi is showing here, isnt it?). The way is never attained, one can only live through it, it is not an object to be seized and coveted.
It's great to learn, but one thing I've come to understand is that it doesn't do much good to think too much about your religion. Yeah, it sounds stupid, but I think the thing is that there's only so much material a brain can actually absorb, adn mull over, and internalize at once, so there reaches a point pretty quickly when you've just got to stop reading new stuff and deal with what you already have. It'll all be there when you're ready to go on again. Of course, what do I know?
Cheeseburgers is good! I was thinking of something along the lines of Chao Patties, as well.
QuoteNever think you know it all. Never tire of learning. Once you think you have learnt it all, or think you are "enlightened" then it will elude you. You will have lost the "true way" (my reading of Musashi is showing here, isnt it?). The way is never attained, one can only live through it, it is not an object to be seized and coveted.
GMTA. It's one of the reasons I don't get along with organized religion at all, because it sells this concept of "read this book, eat this cracker, say the magic words and we'll give you all the answers." I don't believe we can ever have "all the answers." Some questions NEED to go unanswered, as it's the question itself that matters.
Well, when i spoke about learning I also just meant generally. People do tend to over intellectualise stuff alot, something I try to avoid if possible.
Well I can only agree, but I don't think I'm overintellectualizing....I just talk like an essay sometimes. :) In class I actually take notes by oversimplifying and drawing stick people doing the things the teacher is talking about. But I digress.
I think we were put here to learn, you know, and it baffles me when I see people who are in a lockdown mentally, they're like "Well, I got all I need, brain's full now, don't tell me anything else."
And Llama, you're right as well, esp. when it comes to religion, it's not like a test you can study for and extra thinking is always good. Sometimes you have to just hit "clear" and live for a while. I like to take little bites, learn a little, and then go and apply it and see if it works, and then come back and have a little more.
I read a wonderful book called the "Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment" and basically, it's this guy, who was in the hippie days originally, and he did all kinds of drugs, and wrote shit down, and the thing he said that still sticks with me is that the stuff that made it into his book was what was still true no matter how fucked up he was in the head, it even made sense while he was high(or low, as the case may be) and he talked about how he went out and tried to debunk all of it, and what made it into the book was the stuff he could not debunk.
"Chao Patties" is even better, I think we have a winner.
A cabbage pretending to be a Discordian is still a cabbage.
"A true initiation never ends" - Crowley.
is a discordian pretending to be a cabbage still a discordian?
yes.
Quote from: Chuck U. Farley<snip>
...hmm, well, looks like that's all the time we have for today, and remember, when you reach the inevitable conclusion that WE'RE THE ASSHOLES, do the smart thing and keep it to yourself.
8)
Happy thought for the day: Abraham Lincoln was shot in the head for a reason.
no shit, huh?
BTW: love the avatar...
8)
heh, thanks. I'm finding great wisdom in White Ninja. Gotta thank whoever posted that link in the Webcomics thread.
But yeah, it struck me yesterday. WHY did JWB shout "Thus always to tyrants!!" after he shot dude and JUMPED OFF THE BALCONY onto the stage? Someone was hella pissed.
He was a bastard anarchist. Decent anarchists are as rare as decent politicians.
Quote from: ScribeWell, when i spoke about learning I also just meant generally. People do tend to over intellectualise stuff alot, something I try to avoid if possible.
The only thing worth knowing is that nobody knows anything.
QuoteBut yeah, it struck me yesterday. WHY did JWB shout "Thus always to tyrants!!" after he shot dude and JUMPED OFF THE BALCONY onto the stage? Someone was hella pissed.
John Wilkes Booth was also a total drama queen and an ACTOR. Actors are paid to be dramatic. It would be like having Brad Pitt or someone shoot Bush. They'd go for the drama and shout something stupid. Most likely the same thing.
Oh well, what's most important is that they're most likely both now wormfood. At
Yeah, because you can hire actors to shoot people for you and they'll naturally just ham it up.
Come on, now.
Quote from: Llama Wishfart RinpocheYeah, because you can hire actors to shoot people for you and they'll naturally just ham it up.
Come on, now.
I don't mean like "He was an actor hired to do it" I mean he was a staunch antiLincolnite who just happened to be an actor.
A History of John Wilkes Booth (http://www.nps.gov/foth/booth.htm)
Damn it! Why'd you have to interrupt our paranoid ravings with FACTS, of all things?
I didn't make this tinfoil helmet for nothing, you know.
You will all be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
Just saying.
everybody conforms eventually.
nobody gets out of here alive.
oh come now.. we all know why we are over there in the first place.... so we can bring the light to the infidels....
(http://static1.stileproject.com/rnd/img/ether10.jpg)
i'm a bunny on a mission
BUMP
Don't get mad at me people...Baron Von Hoopla requested it :twisted: