After last Tuesday, the democratic primary is more or less a done deal. Barring an outright miracle (like Sanders winning ALL of California), Hillary Clinton will be the nominee, and I am going to have to vote for her. I am less than thrilled about this, given her comments towards those of us who voted for Sanders in the primary. But I'm going to vote for her anyway, because I can't see leaving every non-straight, non-white protestant I know behind (my kid included), just because I personally am - more or less - immune to most of the effects of a republican victory in November.
So at this point, I have to consider the "Bernie or Bust" crowd to be my enemies. It's not hard to do, between their tantrums and their insistence that four years of pain would do us all a world of good. No, that sort of shit makes me hate them almost as bad as the Clinton supporters who have spent the last 6+ months actively making me hate them, though for very different reasons.
I am uninterested in this big fucking elephant in the living room. I am apathetic towards it entirely. I will go vote the straight democratic ticket, then I will go home and hate the democratic party, from Hillary and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz all the way down to the shitbags that decided to tell me WHAT weeks or months ago. I am doing this because I can tell the difference between "bad" and "worse", not because I have seen the light or failed to notice a rigged election or three. I can look past all of that to see my youngest kid. For whatever reason, the bernie-bots cannot. They would prefer Trump over Clinton, because they are having what amounts to a screeching tantrum.
You may notice that I am in the slightly bizarre position of hating every single faction in an election. I am of course okay with that.
That being said, it's also worth mentioning that where you get elephants, you get lots and lots of elephant poop. One of the mighty stacks of said poop has red hair and a beard. and is snarling at you, saying:
"If you hated on me because I voted for Sanders OR because I am willing to face a few stark realities and vote for Clinton...If that was all it took to call me a "Clinton shill" or a "racist" or "part of the problem", then do not bother trying to reconnect with me following the general election. No, instead you should go find new friends, because I am not nor will be your friend after what's been going on. Not because I'm so terribly butthurt about the election, but because you don't meet my standards of friendship. I have your contempt and you have my hate and so far everyone seems to be happy with the situation. So fuck off."
Or kill me, dirtbags.
(This is being cross-posted at a political board on FB, and more is on the way)
I like it. Part of me thinks Clinton gets more shit than she deserves, but she's still way more moderate than I'd like.
If you have the time, I'd like to read the other things you post over yonder -- and if possible, some screen grabs of reactions.
I can't judge you for voting Clinton, the people that do are pricks. It's clear to anyone with any brains on the left that she is better than Trump, at least in the short term, especially for non white people. I can't do it myself, I can't vote for Clinton after the way she's behaved in the primary and after dealing, my entire adult life, with the fallout from her husband's administration. I would prefer Trump in that he would be a disaster, and I am hopeful that disaster would cause a hard swing to the left in 2020. I certainly cant bring myself to vote for him either, but I will go third party rather than vote for Clinton. It may be a shitty decision on my part but I hope you can refrain from judging me for which shit sandwhich I choose, the same as I refrain from judging you.
So, explain to me how, after a primary where the "more radical" candidates made a strong showing on both the left and right, a disastrous four years of Trump (including, let's not forget, a Supreme Court pick) would somehow spur the country into thinking, "yeah, more of that, please"?
To me, it seems far more probable that the majority of voters would swing hard middle away from both extremes, leaving ideologues out in the cold for a long, long time.
I feel if Bernie were really sincere about a "revolution", he would immediately pivot his current momentum into changing the makeup of the House and Senate, where an influx of lefter-leaning politicians would begin forming a base to a more liberal government.
We've had decades of being screwed by the middle, If the middle is bad, and the far right is worse that leaves the far left as a possibly not bad option. Clinton will give us more of what we've received from every politician since (at least) Bush Sr. That hasn't worked out well for most people and looks to me like it will produce a hard swing to the right in 2020.
The point of this chapter wasn't who you should vote for.
The point was that I don't want anyone to feel that there will be no hard feelings when this election cycle is over. Because there will be. Oh, yes. The three people that shit on me publicly over all of this may one day be forgiven.
I'm thinking 3 days after I forgive Hugh and Eldora.
"We had to destroy the country in order to save it. Detroit has been renamed My Lai."
This sums up my feelings nicely.
Seriously. The two of them, Sanders and Clinton, have something like 93-97% voting parity. I can understand being a bit more supportive of one over the other, preferences based on style, viability, history, rhetoric...but some of the vitriol that has been thrown around, you'd think some people were convinced their opposing candidate was closer to Trump. Or Hitler.
Quote from: Cain on April 29, 2016, 09:16:47 PM
Seriously. The two of them, Sanders and Clinton, have something like 93-97% voting parity. I can understand being a bit more supportive of one over the other, preferences based on style, viability, history, rhetoric...but some of the vitriol that has been thrown around, you'd think some people were convinced their opposing candidate was closer to Trump. Or Hitler.
Something about hating people for their doctrine the closer their doctrine is to yours.
Fucking RAH!
I 100% do not get the vitriol aimed at Clinton. She's not ideal, but witnessing the complete unwillingness to settle for a less than Jesus-level perfect candidate really makes the Bernie crowd sound like they're playing Baby's First Election Cycle. Sack up, kids, progress isn't winning this election but it's not precisely losing, either, unless everyone decides it's hopeless and stays home and uses none of the momentum.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 09:56:06 PM
Fucking RAH!
I 100% do not get the vitriol aimed at Clinton. She's not ideal, but witnessing the complete unwillingness to settle for a less than Jesus-level perfect candidate really makes the Bernie crowd sound like they're playing Baby's First Election Cycle. Sack up, kids, progress isn't winning this election but it's not precisely losing, either, unless everyone decides it's hopeless and stays home and uses none of the momentum.
But the vitriol aimed at Sanders voters since last November is just fine. I didn't take it personally or anything.
So I'm gonna sack up and stuff.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 29, 2016, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 09:56:06 PM
Fucking RAH!
I 100% do not get the vitriol aimed at Clinton. She's not ideal, but witnessing the complete unwillingness to settle for a less than Jesus-level perfect candidate really makes the Bernie crowd sound like they're playing Baby's First Election Cycle. Sack up, kids, progress isn't winning this election but it's not precisely losing, either, unless everyone decides it's hopeless and stays home and uses none of the momentum.
But the vitriol aimed at Sanders voters since last November is just fine. I didn't take it personally or anything.
Not what I meant at all, bud. Let the hate flow on.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 10:04:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 29, 2016, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 09:56:06 PM
Fucking RAH!
I 100% do not get the vitriol aimed at Clinton. She's not ideal, but witnessing the complete unwillingness to settle for a less than Jesus-level perfect candidate really makes the Bernie crowd sound like they're playing Baby's First Election Cycle. Sack up, kids, progress isn't winning this election but it's not precisely losing, either, unless everyone decides it's hopeless and stays home and uses none of the momentum.
But the vitriol aimed at Sanders voters since last November is just fine. I didn't take it personally or anything.
Not what I meant at all, bud. Let the hate flow on.
I will. This thread isn't about political realities. It's about the way supposed friends demonstrate contempt over said politics. It's when you find out that a "friend" of 10+ years wasn't really your friend, you were just pixels on her screen and an occasional advantage to be used. Or an army buddy you've known since 1987 that has decided that you are scum for not riding the whole Sanders thing down in flames.
It's about the fact that most of the Jesii may forgive, but I am not any of them.
I wanted to get the anger out of the way in part 1.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 29, 2016, 10:09:49 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 10:04:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 29, 2016, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 09:56:06 PM
Fucking RAH!
I 100% do not get the vitriol aimed at Clinton. She's not ideal, but witnessing the complete unwillingness to settle for a less than Jesus-level perfect candidate really makes the Bernie crowd sound like they're playing Baby's First Election Cycle. Sack up, kids, progress isn't winning this election but it's not precisely losing, either, unless everyone decides it's hopeless and stays home and uses none of the momentum.
But the vitriol aimed at Sanders voters since last November is just fine. I didn't take it personally or anything.
Not what I meant at all, bud. Let the hate flow on.
I will. This thread isn't about political realities. It's about the way supposed friends demonstrate contempt over said politics. It's when you find out that a "friend" of 10+ years wasn't really your friend, you were just pixels on her screen and an occasional advantage to be used. Or an army buddy you've known since 1987 that has decided that you are scum for not riding the whole Sanders thing down in flames.
It's about the fact that most of the Jesii may forgive, but I am not any of them.
It's gotten ugly as fuck. And it sucks that the ugliness is coming from a movement I support. And it sucks that you've been a target of it.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 29, 2016, 10:09:49 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 10:04:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 29, 2016, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 29, 2016, 09:56:06 PM
Fucking RAH!
I 100% do not get the vitriol aimed at Clinton. She's not ideal, but witnessing the complete unwillingness to settle for a less than Jesus-level perfect candidate really makes the Bernie crowd sound like they're playing Baby's First Election Cycle. Sack up, kids, progress isn't winning this election but it's not precisely losing, either, unless everyone decides it's hopeless and stays home and uses none of the momentum.
But the vitriol aimed at Sanders voters since last November is just fine. I didn't take it personally or anything.
Not what I meant at all, bud. Let the hate flow on.
I will. This thread isn't about political realities. It's about the way supposed friends demonstrate contempt over said politics. It's when you find out that a "friend" of 10+ years wasn't really your friend, you were just pixels on her screen and an occasional advantage to be used. Or an army buddy you've known since 1987 that has decided that you are scum for not riding the whole Sanders thing down in flames.
It's about the fact that most of the Jesii may forgive, but I am not any of them.
It's gotten ugly as fuck. And it sucks that the ugliness is coming from a movement I support. And it sucks that you've been a target of it.
I've been shat on by both sides, by mouth-breathing fanatics that I didn't actually expect to see in the liberal camp.
Everyone left of center can stop making fun of teabaggers now.
Contemporary liberalism's sneering, smug complex has gotten pretty out of control at this stage. It's pretty well reflected in a lot of online media, when you start to look at it closely.
Quote from: Cain on April 29, 2016, 10:55:19 PM
Contemporary liberalism's sneering, smug complex has gotten pretty out of control at this stage. It's pretty well reflected in a lot of online media, when you start to look at it closely.
You can tell when one side goes full potato. Instead of braying laughter at the other side, they reserve all their bile for people who aren't as "pure" as they are on their own side.
Like tumblr at a national level.
In any case, I had to say that shit. Now I'm adjusted.
The next one will be about the "FINE THEN I'M VOTING FOR TRUMP" tards.
After reading approximately 50 billion books on fascism and the far-right, as a political ideology, I feel like I should have much more to say about Trump.
But all I can do is feel vaguely disgusted. I have a really bad feeling about the next 20 odd years...
IS COULD DISSAPOINTED BERNIE SUPPORTERS, HILLARY NOT-SO-ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT-ERS, AND OH MY GOP! WTF IS GOING ON OVER THERE-ERS BE A VIABLE 3RD PARTY CANDIDATE FOR GENERAL ELECTION???
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 30, 2016, 01:10:55 AM
In any case, I had to say that shit. Now I'm adjusted.
The next one will be about the "FINE THEN I'M VOTING FOR TRUMP" tards.
Trump has been courting Bernie supporters on the sly for months now. I think it's delicious that the "abstaining from the con" crowd are in fact being conned by America's greatest used car salesman. It's yuge, lemme tell ya, just wonderful.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 30, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 30, 2016, 01:10:55 AM
In any case, I had to say that shit. Now I'm adjusted.
The next one will be about the "FINE THEN I'M VOTING FOR TRUMP" tards.
Trump has been courting Bernie supporters on the sly for months now. I think it's delicious that the "abstaining from the con" crowd are in fact being conned by America's greatest used car salesman. It's yuge, lemme tell ya, just wonderful.
Yeah, pretty much. It's depressing, really, watching otherwise-intelligent people shove their heads up their arses.
Tumblrinas vs nazis, now that's an interesting mental image.
It'd make a fun story, After the trumpsters turn on them and start sending otherkin to the camps, a brave transethnic agent, spiriting them away to Mexico.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 30, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 30, 2016, 01:10:55 AM
In any case, I had to say that shit. Now I'm adjusted.
The next one will be about the "FINE THEN I'M VOTING FOR TRUMP" tards.
Trump has been courting Bernie supporters on the sly for months now. I think it's delicious that the "abstaining from the con" crowd are in fact being conned by America's greatest used car salesman. It's yuge, lemme tell ya, just wonderful.
Can I do up the bolded facebook meme style and set it loose? I think that needs to be everywhere.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on April 30, 2016, 04:45:16 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 30, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 30, 2016, 01:10:55 AM
In any case, I had to say that shit. Now I'm adjusted.
The next one will be about the "FINE THEN I'M VOTING FOR TRUMP" tards.
Trump has been courting Bernie supporters on the sly for months now. I think it's delicious that the "abstaining from the con" crowd are in fact being conned by America's greatest used car salesman. It's yuge, lemme tell ya, just wonderful.
Can I do up the bolded facebook meme style and set it loose? I think that needs to be everywhere.
Sure. Which reminds me, I don't think we're friends there. PM incoming.
Album is here: http://imgur.com/a/WOImg
I'd appreciate feedback on legibility/design/etc.
Out of the three, I liked the first one best. The highlight makes the message stand out very clearly, and is quite eye-catching.
I want to slam that on FB.
Looking at it in context (http://imgur.com/a/pj2NJ), I think the highlight one (which was third in production but ended up first on the list) is the way to go. I really liked the italic font, but it's challenging to read even on a relatively boring background.
(Sorry for propaganda-ing up your thread, Roger)
I wish so bad that someone would show up at a Cruz/Fiorina rally or town hall or whatever and when there's an opportunity for questions, that someone would say, "uh, yeah, hi - um, this question is for Carly - PC Load Letter? WTF Does that mean??"
I've almost shit myself a few times watching the Sanders campaign go through fits quite similar to the ones experienced by Ron Paul supporters in the final days of that campaign. I have no small number of ties to the right and so had a fine vantage to observe the effects on friends and family alike. The actual endgame has been nearly identical.
1. Note unfair media coverage and overt signs of vote rigging to everyone around you regardless of levels of interest expressed.
2. Freak out and hiss at anybody that is disinterested or that expresses a different opinion as though the most monstrous of humans had just vomited blasphemies and demons all over your pristine fucking holy ground.
3. Abandon ship entirely or threaten publicly to aid the opposition purely out of spite when the final votes come in and NO they will not be investigating all of the things you've been griping about.
4. Get all "revolutionary" with your bad self and continue to shit on folks who may have decided that the status quo wasn't so very bad or that your particular utopia wasn't really their idea of an eternal paradise.
I definitely agree with your OP, Roger, though I think many of these Bernie or bust types are going to calm the fuck down, suck it up, and vote for Hillary after they're done pouting.
Quote from: LMNO on April 29, 2016, 07:50:55 PM
I feel if Bernie were really sincere about a "revolution", he would immediately pivot his current momentum into changing the makeup of the House and Senate, where an influx of leather-leaning politicians would begin forming a base to a more liberal government.
That's how I misread that.
But it's also a really good point. I was hoping that if he won, he would get people involved not just with scrutinizing their Congresscritters, but also their local elections as well.
Looking back 5 years later, it's fun watching the right to do itself what the left did to itself in 2016.
Is it the QAnon Crowd (Margorie Taylor Greene and the like) vs. the rest of the Republican party? Or some other dividing line? Either way I'd love more details about what you're seeing if you've got the time.
I haven't yet spotted who is the figurehead for "the rest of the Republican party". Who has the guts to primary Trump? Who will split the base and start the infighting?
Quote from: TheAudience on June 15, 2021, 04:56:30 PM
Is it the QAnon Crowd (Margorie Taylor Greene and the like) vs. the rest of the Republican party? Or some other dividing line? Either way I'd love more details about what you're seeing if you've got the time.
I haven't yet spotted who is the figurehead for "the rest of the Republican party". Who has the guts to primary Trump? Who will split the base and start the infighting?
Right now, no currently-elected republican (aside from Romney, Kinzinger, and Cheney) will raise his hand against Trump, but McCarthy and his crowd aren't happy, and neither are a dozen GOP senators.
The reason they don't speak out is that Trump can doom any of them. He can't help them, but he CAN squash their careers in the next election.
He's more of a king-breaker than a king-maker.
Thank you, I think I see the parallel now. I can only wish that some contingent of the unhappy crowd gets unhappy enough to sit out or desert (even temporarily) should Trump make another go at the presidency in 2024.