Once in a youth forgotten I felt this way.
Long ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPbIls0iOnI
Can't see at work :(
There was an old "Porky Pig" cartoon about that pledge once. Abe Lincoln ushered him through an idealized, highly polished version of USA history, and excited him to stand straight up and stammered it out with great sincerity. Years and more cynicism past this, I'm likely comment on how the only good reason they could present was glossed over propaganda about what we, as a country HAD done, not what we WERE doing or WOULD do. It was penned, I assume, before the space program, or Vietnam. Back when I saw it, it was just a question of "Ok, what have we done lately?"
Younger me also wondered why the constant re-swearing of allegienace was necessary. What did it accomplish, re - hoisting our cooperation and fealty every morning as school children? What did it gain me, in that public school, other than lessons in a classroom crammed beyond capacity until a bell sent us out for recess on a bare asphalt slab, or a fetid "hot" lunch in a cafeteria that always reaked of bleach and vomit? Why were we pledging allegiance to a FLAG anyways. (Idolatry?) The republic for which it stood took sloppy seconds. I should have been more in tune about what this said about priorities.
Gradually, as we aged, we mumbled through less and less of it, hand less over hearts, until we would just stand there, staring, as a voice piped up from the main office on tinny speakers (same vintage as ol' Porky), grated out the same words. In high school, one well eaning english teacher, decided he'd pledge for ALL of us one morning, and in addition to right hand over the heart, extended his left arm straight out. Seig - whatnow?
It's easy to be a cynical consumer of government from the inside. I pay the taxes, a more functional demonstration of my cooperation in the overgrown, overcomplicated group survival scheme than kissing their fucking flag. I have no illusion I'm getting a perfect product for it. I'd like to see it do better, or re-sort into better. It will only help me out, and make life smoother for the people I like. Then we can go on find some problem more miniscule to complain over than a few thousand porkbarrel assholes.
Too bad you can't see it. It is Red Skelton breaking it down word by word.
I think the daily recital was conditioning. Plain and simple.
It's sad. You know, I'd LIKE a country I could beleive in. A pledge expecting to condition in allegiance is a waste though. A halfhearted, tossed out attempt certain to build resentment in anyone who can see around it, and have an insufficient success ratio on those who buy into it.
I would love to be proud of my country too. But I can't.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 10, 2010, 05:56:52 PM
I would love to be proud of my country too.
Why? It's so arbitraty. It's not like you chose to be born there.
So far you've all you've chosen is not to emigrate, so I guess you could feel proud about that.
Humans are silly. We like to think where we live is the most awesome of awesomest places.
I quit saying it in high school because it's a loyalty oath repeated by children who have no idea what they're swearing about or to. And I objected to that.
Nationalism is silly too. It's sometimes fun to buy into, especially with sporting events, but it certainly shouldn't be taken too seriously.
I like the form Scottish nationalism takes. It's basically the same as general Scottishness - stupidity, drunkenness, spatulas, irn bru, "Mel Gibson impersonating a Scotsman" Impersonators and Brawling. Not to mention punching Fictionpuss in the face.
It's hilarious when people take it seriously.
Quote from: Richter on September 10, 2010, 05:41:58 PM
It's sad. You know, I'd LIKE a country I could beleive in. A pledge expecting to condition in allegiance is a waste though. A halfhearted, tossed out attempt certain to build resentment in anyone who can see around it, and have an insufficient success ratio on those who buy into it.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 10, 2010, 05:56:52 PM
I would love to be proud of my country too. But I can't.
The land itself is astonishingly beautiful.
Of course, most places are.
A country should be assigned to children randomingly at birth. Throughout life that child should be forced to be totally nationalistic to that assigned country, despite the fact it is not his/her own.
Sure it doesn't make any sense, but it would make the World Cup a hell of a lot more interesting.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on September 11, 2010, 11:05:05 PM
A country should be assigned to children randomingly at birth. Throughout life that child should be forced to be totally nationalistic to that assigned country, despite the fact it is not his/her own.
Sure it doesn't make any sense, but it would make the World Cup a hell of a lot more interesting.
Isn't that what happens?
for the non-Americans here, are any of you proud of your home nation?
So far, yeah. It's keeping me fed, too. And supporting with my "difficulties".
However, if the Wilders shit keeps going the way it's going this might change. I'm definitely not proud of the part of the population that voted for him.
I guess I'm glad I was born here (It's not a first world country, but it could have been worse...).
I didn't chose to be born here and didn't do anything to deserve it, so it's not something I can feel proud about, just like I don't feel "proud" of being male or having green eyes.
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
But the Knights couldn't get 'Under God' added to that.
HMM,
as someone who has visited Holland (all parts, not just Amsterdam) many times, for over a decade, I've certainly noticed a few things which I'd like to comment on;
1) the public/ street activity (hasslers/ beggars/ thieves) is rapidly degrading, not improving - arguably all identifiable as obvious transient activity.
2) love 'em as I do, waaay too many Dutch folk live off the public dole (particularly youth (WTF???!!!). it's a fucking joke.
3) half the people I know would be trying to live there if it weren't for the strict immigration laws (which I agree with) and although current politics may be of the "nutter" variety, it's because your country is going rapidly from "we re-built ourselves-post-war" to "were-falling-apart-new-world-order-style"
OR
Holland - Europe's own California!!
ERRATUM:
i did mean that as a reply to trip (000), so's not to confuse.
ALSO0,
seriously. i was staying on Herr n gracht on and off for a few years and was shocked by how rapidly the whole district turned into a fucking crack-districkt by 2003. I've avoided the main center and pretty much just visited friends in Arnhem etc, since. no fun getting hassled by beggars & ruffians, i've got that here in p-towns failing fantasy.
The rending of the fabric of society, the split between those who are educated and know history vs. those who had the watered down 1960's version, is starting to come into stark relief with things like the pledge of allegiance, etc. ETA: in other words, it's sort of a placeholder in terms of "the olden days" for those who want to preserve that time in our history as a "nation." Meanwhile, the generations coming up aren't seeing the "significance" of saying the pledge, mostly because it's not really needed to unify the culture anymore.
We have media to do that...American Idol does more to create groupthink than any religious leavings of the nineteenth century.
Quote from: Jenne on September 16, 2010, 04:21:40 PM
American Idol does more to create groupthink than any religious leavings of the nineteenth century.
YANKED. Thanks for the excellent quote, Jenne.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
Might instruct my kids to do just that...
Quote from: Telarus on September 17, 2010, 05:30:58 AM
Quote from: Jenne on September 16, 2010, 04:21:40 PM
American Idol does more to create groupthink than any religious leavings of the nineteenth century.
YANKED. Thanks for the excellent quote, Jenne.
Hey, you're welcome. :D
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:34:26 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
Might instruct my kids to do just that...
My kid READ the preamble about 4 years ago for a history assignment and decided enough was enough and stopped saying it altogether.
(http://www.spagbook.com/images/screenshot4.png)
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 14, 2010, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
But the Knights couldn't get 'Under God' added to that.
We could use the bit about nature and her god. I think that's from the declaration.
Quote from: Xochipilli on September 20, 2010, 02:07:38 AM
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 14, 2010, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
But the Knights couldn't get 'Under God' added to that.
We could use the bit about nature and her god. I think that's from the declaration.
The declaration is an historical document only, and carries no weight of law.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2010, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: Xochipilli on September 20, 2010, 02:07:38 AM
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 14, 2010, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
But the Knights couldn't get 'Under God' added to that.
We could use the bit about nature and her god. I think that's from the declaration.
The declaration is an historical document only, and carries no weight of law.
Wait, is this a post-American generation whatever type observation, or are you for real? :?
Quote from: Mistress Freeky, HRN on September 20, 2010, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2010, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: Xochipilli on September 20, 2010, 02:07:38 AM
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 14, 2010, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
But the Knights couldn't get 'Under God' added to that.
We could use the bit about nature and her god. I think that's from the declaration.
The declaration is an historical document only, and carries no weight of law.
Wait, is this a post-American generation whatever type observation, or are you for real? :?
For real. The declaration of independence is not, nor has it ever been, any form of law.
It was basically just a list of bitches and a kthxbai.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2010, 04:01:46 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky, HRN on September 20, 2010, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2010, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: Xochipilli on September 20, 2010, 02:07:38 AM
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 14, 2010, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
But the Knights couldn't get 'Under God' added to that.
We could use the bit about nature and her god. I think that's from the declaration.
The declaration is an historical document only, and carries no weight of law.
Wait, is this a post-American generation whatever type observation, or are you for real? :?
For real. The declaration of independence is not, nor has it ever been, any form of law.
It was basically just a list of bitches and a kthxbai.
:aaa: :aaa:
I didn't know that. :themoreyouknow:
Summary of Declaration of Independence:
QuoteIt gets on our last collective nerve that the King of England is such a cockwaffle. So much so, in fact, that we are prepared to sever all of our political bonds with Great Britain. I mean, if anyone has a right to be such a towering pile of turds to Americans, it's us. Therefore, we hereby declare, "catch us if you can, you Limey cunts!"
PS. Slavery's still OK.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2010, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: Xochipilli on September 20, 2010, 02:07:38 AM
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 14, 2010, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 14, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Fuck the pledge. If we want our kids to understand what they were supposed to have, have the little bastards recite the preamble.
But the Knights couldn't get 'Under God' added to that.
We could use the bit about nature and her god. I think that's from the declaration.
The declaration is an historical document only, and carries no weight of law.
The Pledge of allegiance is carries no weight of law either, but the declaration of independence at least carries more historical oomph. Plus having our children declare independence every day, rather than pledging allegiance, would give things a very different feeling.
That's a great idea. We should come up with a pledge of autonomy.
I pledge allegiance to me, and the people and things I give a shit about. The rest of you can fuck off and stay out of my life. Kthxbai.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2010, 07:11:58 PM
I pledge allegiance to me, and the people and things I give a shit about. The rest of you can fuck off and stay out of my life. Kthxbai.
:awesome: