Messages

ALRIGHT ALREADY,

          where's the spagging out over the arizona ruling?

I'M OK

          with being treated like a "Yank" when there, no one had ever called me that before, it was funny. I was of course, derailed in my mind because in the states, being a "Yankee" more specifically means one is not from the southern states. so i was wondering how this guy pegged my dialect. which wasn't the case, he just meant american in general. being from wisconsin, it's a meaningless term to me, kinda like honky. still waiting for someone to throw that at me some day, so my life may be complete.

ONE R

          in herengracht, gotcha. yes, staying there was awesome, incredible view of the streets and the anarchos had set up an internet cafe on the main floor.

HEY,

          being a skip across the pond is association enough (re: denmark), we made fun of the michiganites and they were way across the biggest lake ever. i fully understand the german thing, of course, that seemed universal in travelling around.

I, FOR ONE

          want the whole euro thing to go away cuz i like all the different crazy money, and having pockets full of strange coins. it's part of that romanticallism of europe. i'm not too in favour of the mcworld.

ALL THAT SAID,

          i was a total nerd for islamic studies in school, specifically sufi thinkers like ibn sina or especially al ghazali, and i have to assume the dutch were clueless somehow, in thinking that in-faith muslims would be anything but totally themselves, residing there, or anywhere. it's a pickle, for sure

REGARDLESS

          of the op, being essentially a dead topic, thanks for everyone's input. it's perhaps not a direct correlative to the immigration/ illegal entry issues in the us, but nonetheless socially imperative as a concern. i dislike the media's obsession with fanning the flames in regards to making it all about racism and hate. i think that's relevant, but dumbing it down to a point where the real complex issues of immigration and economics get tossed out the window because they don't fit on hot topic of the day is upsetting.

FOR EXAMPLE,

          i'm pretty convinced that the staff of the oregonian and willamette weekly would like nothing more than weekly race riots, of every flavour, just for the sales, they do everything they can to insist on dividing and misrepresenting the reality of portland social relations.

I DO NOT

          relish the individuals who's job it is to get knee deep in the burqua debate. individuals in politics are are largely mentally deranged imo, so they're probably the least qualified to decide for the greater good. people walking around in masks is more than a little weird, but if one is to respect another's personal beliefs, it's kinda all or nothing.

That article is a year old and the Dutch are having new elections in September, so I'm not sure how relevant that document is.

Anyway, I recognize that there are a lot of problems in integrating Muslim immigrants into society, but policies such as those mentioned in the OP only serve to alienate the immigrants even more. Even if a problem is distinctive to one particular group, policies targetting that single group will often just cause more polarization and common distrust of said group.

THAT'S FUNNY

          i wandered around the site after reading that and found it interesting, but didn't notice the date!

IT'S LIKE

          we have an instant back to the future opportunity. we're already a year later and we can see what happened!

I'VE

          been to various parts of Holland several times, but not for about 8 years (kids don't take well to 14 hour flights, even with free booze). As an obviously white guy in appearance, i was intrigued to experience racism from other white people, which the Dutch seem to be brimming with. Most of the times being there, i was crashing with uber leftist liberal anarcho types (in a sweet as hell pad on the Herrengracht (sp?) ) so in vague ways i was insulated from perhaps the typical Dutch opinion.

HOWEVER,

          it wasn't uncommon to have people make a derogatory "YANK" remark when my speech was overheard by others, especially walking around on the streets. i also found a fabulous disdain for all of their neighbors. kind of like how people from one US state make fun of their neighbor states i guess, but it was weird to me all the same. even outside of Amsterdam friends were all about hating on the germans and danish.

AT THE TIME,

          i was also really aware that holland had some fairly tight immigration laws, which made sense. half the stoners in portland would be living on the dole, squatting all over that tiny holland town if it werent that way.

I DON'T

          necessarily agree with nigel, because that's my job

I know a few people who go there every chance they get, and they don't hear a lot of fucked-up comments. They say the main thing people do there is try to overcharge you for things, assuming you don't know what they're supposed to cost. Or you might wait for a cab longer than a native would, things like that.

Of course they could be running in different circles or visiting different areas.

It still beats Texas. 

I THOUGHT

           nothing could beat texas?!

HA HA

          then there's this view, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

QUOTE(S)

          The EU should "do its best to undermine" the "homogeneity" of its member states, the UN's special representative for migration has said.

          Mr Sutherland, who is non-executive chairman of Goldman Sachs International and a former chairman of oil giant BP, heads the Global Forum on Migration and Development, which brings together representatives of 160 nations to share policy ideas.

He told the House of Lords committee migration was a "crucial dynamic for economic growth" in some EU nations "however difficult it may be to explain this to the citizens of those states".

SOME PEOPLE

          think everything is about making money

That article is a year old and the Dutch are having new elections in September, so I'm not sure how relevant that document is.

Anyway, I recognize that there are a lot of problems in integrating Muslim immigrants into society, but policies such as those mentioned in the OP only serve to alienate the immigrants even more. Even if a problem is distinctive to one particular group, policies targetting that single group will often just cause more polarization and common distrust of said group.

THAT'S FUNNY

          i wandered around the site after reading that and found it interesting, but didn't notice the date!

IT'S LIKE

          we have an instant back to the future opportunity. we're already a year later and we can see what happened!

I'VE

          been to various parts of Holland several times, but not for about 8 years (kids don't take well to 14 hour flights, even with free booze). As an obviously white guy in appearance, i was intrigued to experience racism from other white people, which the Dutch seem to be brimming with. Most of the times being there, i was crashing with uber leftist liberal anarcho types (in a sweet as hell pad on the Herrengracht (sp?) ) so in vague ways i was insulated from perhaps the typical Dutch opinion.

HOWEVER,

          it wasn't uncommon to have people make a derogatory "YANK" remark when my speech was overheard by others, especially walking around on the streets. i also found a fabulous disdain for all of their neighbors. kind of like how people from one US state make fun of their neighbor states i guess, but it was weird to me all the same. even outside of Amsterdam friends were all about hating on the germans and danish.

AT THE TIME,

          i was also really aware that holland had some fairly tight immigration laws, which made sense. half the stoners in portland would be living on the dole, squatting all over that tiny holland town if it werent that way.

I DON'T

          necessarily agree with nigel, because that's my job

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2219/netherlands-abandons-multiculturalism

QUOTE:

          The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism that has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands.

A new integration bill (covering letter and 15-page action plan), which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on June 16, reads: "The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role. With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society."

It's kind of unreal. Are they completely unaware of the entire Internet making fun of "girls" science sets just a few months ago? All it does is humiliate and demotivate girls who are already into science. "Look, science can be cute and fluffy and non-threatening, just like girls!"

It's a fucking slap in the face. It more or less screams Dear girl scientists; don't take yourselves seriously, because we don't take you seriously! Here are some 80's fashions for you while you play science, tee hee!

THAT RULES

          but it should pimp how to build your own vibrator, with options, that, imo, would attract more girls to science immediately

IT'S ALL

          in number 4. less than half claim to have great interest in international concerns, and they're almost all exaggerating or lying. if there's anything shocking here, i'd say this poll makes it look as if there is any awareness whatsoever in the general public, who never read past the headlines and photos.

HOW ABOUT

          Discussing hugh Grant and "Arther" films is A WASTE OF YER EFFIN BODILY FLUIDS!!?

Oops. There I am, posting in this goddamn thread again.

IS THERE

          a mr.t thingy to stick here?

THE

          excuse for smoking pot being a medical thing is fucking retarded.

THE WOMENZ!!

          they eat people for breakfast!!

Causes 300 cases of death by kitsch per month.

HA HA!!

          somehow i've never actually gone there, but i love seeing it from the freeway. i guess it was my "flight" instinct. it's probably meant to thin the flood of visitors from illinois.

WELL

          we do have MilwaukIE, here in Oregon, which is essentially the very, very South side of Portland. But since NIGEL never leaves her office, she may be unaware of that.

I, HOWEVER

          left milwaukEE, wisconsin in 1996, to be here in portland.

MILWAUKEE

          is a rough n tumble joint. it is very, very segregated and racial tension there is epic. somehow, street violence has only grown over the last ten years. friends back home talk about muggings and random shootings in a manner which is obviously growing and equally difficult to wrap yer head around. violence is simply escalating daily. that's a horrible situation. that old guy is obviously cracked and that kids family is undoubtably destroyed right now. i hate stories like that.

No need for caps, you're just a regular lower-case kind of guy. As much as you'd like to believe anyone thinks otherwise.

GEEZ!

          have you eaten since that weird breakfast we had?

I ate a meat.

YEAH

          obviously. i guess i meant, other than rwhn (?)