We've been swapping around allot of ideas on how to save, scrounge and adapt to bad environments or tight situations recently, and given the economic climate (DRINK!) we're sliding into, this IS NOT A BAD THING.
(Please to be keeping paranoia to useful levels. )
DO you know about, or have articles pertaining to:
- Clever ways to get / prepare food for bad or meager situations.
- How to get by without heat / water / electricity
- What you can eat.
- How to NOT get eaten.
- What to stock up on in case the excrement hits the air conditioning.
- How to not die outside of a house.
- How not to get poisoned or parasited by the water.
- How to not get sick. / How to get not sick again
- What kind of tools are helpful, or how to improvise them.
- Tasty recipes for long pork.
IS SOCIETY COLLAPSING?
ARE YOU READY?
WILL YOU BE ABLE TO OPEN A DEATHMATCH VENUE BAR AND GRILL IN THE ASHES OF THE FALLEN SOCIETY BEFORE THE OTHER GUY?
If nothing else, glean a few ideas on how to make "Green", "100% Recycled" goods to sell to hipsters. (Fashion has proven they WILL buy and wear trash.)
I demand you rename this thread Crazy Prepared, in honour of the TV Trope. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrazyPrepared
I shall return with ideas, once I power up the generator, extract the water from the tarps outside, boil it using these two stones and tinder I collected earlier, and add some instant coffee, milk powder and sugar I keep under the soles of my shoes in a carefully cut out compartment and have a passable coffee to drink.
Check out http://www.motherearthnews.com (http://www.motherearthnews.com)
They may be the first major mag in the English language to focus on how to survive on little and without reliance on government/big business. They have some great stuff.
Good one. Thanks!
Your name brings to mind how I can (and will, given half a chance) rebuilt civilization out of the back deck of my ancient Volvo.
Cain, to NO ONE'S surprise, knows how to do this RIGHT. :lulz:
Here's an old favorite article on how to get by while homeless.
I am happy to report that I can't vouch for the effectiveness or accuracy, but I like the focus on good hygiene, vitamin supplements, and taking care of your teeth.
www.donrearic.com/homeless.htm
Hobo stove.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Hobo-Stove-from-Tin-Can---Traditional-High-Tech-Ca/
The cheap as free answer to a $100 ultra - light gas camping stove.
i am not too well prepared, my adaptability and pack lite camping experience is about all i got going at the moment, i am too busy dealing with the disaster of the day to get ahead
my limited supplies (my small stash of gold and silver guns and ammo, camping gear are spread all over three states)
if i had a few bucks i would do this http://www.survivalseedbank.com/ it looks like a good idea, keeps well and gives you new seed each year something garden store seeds no longer do...
A suggestion is to build a stash of barter goods that are inexpensive now, but will be incredibly valuable and necessary in a future where there are no Wal-Marts.
A few ideas:
Liquor - cheap vodka can also be used to make tinctures and sterilize wounds. I pick up a sale half-gallon once or twice a month to stash in the basement.
Salt - big bags of rock salt are perfect.
Refined sugar - people bitch about it now, but when it's hard to come by it will be worth more than gold.
Band-aids
Antibiotic ointment
Aspirin
Razors
Knives
White gas
Lanterns
Oil lamps
Candles
Paraffin Wax (needed for canning when all of the disposable lids are gone)
Candlewicks (cheaper than candles, and can be used in primitive oil lamps fueled with simple fat)
Flour (tricky because it doesn't keep that well and is susceptible to mold and vermin, but will be in high demand)
Duct tape
Resealable glass bottles and jars
Cheesecloth
Nails & screws
Matches & lighters
Basic hand tools
Metal screening material (for making drying racks)
Zip-loc baggies (for distributing your salt and sugar)
Needles and thread
Corncob pipes
Tobacco
Also, develop some barterable skills. For instance, learn how to make a decent oil lamp out of a tin can, some wire, and a wick. Learn to identify local medicinal plants, and how to administer them. Learn how to make tinctures and salves.
befriend any local survivalists that you can now. they will have large stashes of equipment, ammo, and comestibles for you to use, and if you get in good now, they won't expect it when you shoot them in the back later. :evil:
Quote from: Iptuous on January 23, 2009, 10:47:29 PM
befriend any local survivalists that you can now. they will have large stashes of equipment, ammo, and comestibles for you to use, and if you get in good now, they won't expect it when you shoot them in the back later. :evil:
Survivalists are ALWAYS expecting that.
Better, develop some leadership skills, convince your neighbors to pool resources, barricade your neighborhood, and take turns patrolling the perimeter in small, armed packs. Learn to garden so you can convince them to let you cultivate their back yards. Better learn to harvest and dry seeds for next year, or you're fucked.
I know...i was being fecesious. Your plan sounds like the plotline of the survivalist fanfic book, "Lights Out"....
Quote from: Nigel on January 23, 2009, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on January 23, 2009, 10:47:29 PM
befriend any local survivalists that you can now. they will have large stashes of equipment, ammo, and comestibles for you to use, and if you get in good now, they won't expect it when you shoot them in the back later. :evil:
Survivalists are ALWAYS expecting that.
Better, develop some leadership skills, convince your neighbors to pool resources, barricade your neighborhood, and take turns patrolling the perimeter in small, armed packs. Learn to garden so you can convince them to let you cultivate their back yards. Better learn to harvest and dry seeds for next year, or you're fucked.
wont work with most store bought seeds see my above post.
Quote from: Fomenter on January 23, 2009, 11:37:51 PM
Quote from: Nigel on January 23, 2009, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on January 23, 2009, 10:47:29 PM
befriend any local survivalists that you can now. they will have large stashes of equipment, ammo, and comestibles for you to use, and if you get in good now, they won't expect it when you shoot them in the back later. :evil:
Survivalists are ALWAYS expecting that.
Better, develop some leadership skills, convince your neighbors to pool resources, barricade your neighborhood, and take turns patrolling the perimeter in small, armed packs. Learn to garden so you can convince them to let you cultivate their back yards. Better learn to harvest and dry seeds for next year, or you're fucked.
wont work with most store bought seeds see my above post.
That's part of learning to garden.
Actually, it does work with most store-bought seeds, it's just that since almost all store-bought seeds are hybrids, the resulting offspring will more closely resemble the grandparent strains, which may or may not be a good thing. Also, next year's squash may be lulzy if you plant multiple varieties of cucurbit, it's always a crapshoot with squash!
:lulz:
Most of my garden is heirloom these days, and some of the squash, tomatoes, and spinach has a pedigree that dates to my first house which I bought 11 years ago this spring.
my experience was with squash/zucchini the second year they were the rock hard inedible miniature pumpkins/squash things they sell as Halloween decorations :lulz:
heirloom is the way to go, sounds awesome
Quote from: Fomenter on January 23, 2009, 10:05:29 PM
i am not too well prepared, my adaptability and pack lite camping experience is about all i got going at the moment, i am too busy dealing with the disaster of the day to get ahead
my limited supplies (my small stash of gold and silver guns and ammo, camping gear are spread all over three states)
if i had a few bucks i would do this http://www.survivalseedbank.com/ it looks like a good idea, keeps well and gives you new seed each year something garden store seeds no longer do...
I just looked at that website, and it's just another marketing scheme...
QuoteIt's been very difficult to acquire high quality, open pollinated seeds lately.
:lulz:
Bullshit, if anything high-germination-rate heirloom seeds are more available now than they've been in 50 years. Fuck, I get three or four catalogs every winter that specialize in organic, high-quality heirloom seed, the nurseries all have started stocking several lines of heirloom, and even the big seed companies like Burpee, Lilly Miller, and Lake Valley have jumped on the heirloom bandwagon. Plus, for anyone who internets, there are quite a few heirloom seed exchanges.
So don't believe the hype, and don't get suckered into spending that kind of money on readily-available seed you can buy from dozens, if not hundreds, of other sources!
http://www.halcyon.com/tmend/links.htm
http://www.southernexposure.com/index.html
http://www.territorialseed.com/
http://www.burpee.com/category/vegetables/heirloom+vegetables.do
http://www.heirloomseeds.com/
http://www.seedsavers.org/
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/exchind/
http://www.seedswaps.com/
Etc etc.
Quote from: Fomenter on January 24, 2009, 12:05:55 AM
my experience was with squash/zucchini the second year they were the rock hard inedible miniature pumpkins/squash things they sell as Halloween decorations :lulz:
heirloom is the way to go, sounds awesome
Yesss, that's what I'm talking about... something to know about anything in the squash/melon/cucumber family is that unless you isolate them completely from others, if you start out with heirloom, the following year you'll have hybrids. One year I had some kind of melon/zucchini hybrid... :vom:
Those little pumpkins probably would have made good winter squashes, though!
i don't trust the survivalist marketing style that that site uses, there are a lot of them and they all look about the same
the buying seeds and storing them for need is more what i was suggesting for being crazy prepared. if i had the money to spend i would do some research before buying, i had a different heirloom seeds site that was much better but couldn't find it to post
The two that I buy most of my seeds from are Territorial and Pinetree; both have really good seed at good prices. One thing that's important is to buy from a supplier in your climate, if at all possible.
OK, my advice is for a more functioning situation. One with power, and cities, and other people:
USB memory stick. TrueCrypt encryption. Names and numbers for everyone you can think of, any bank accounts you have, electronic maps of the surrounding area, with dead drop points clearly marked. Pick a unique password, preferably alphanumeric jibberish.
Dead-drop points. Bury tins of food, water and other useful goods or tools you do not want to have to carry. Mark them carefully.
Condoms. In your wallet. Not only useful for carrying massive amounts of water, but for safe sex too (and swimming in the Amazon, to stop fish going up your penis and inflating all of a sudden). And you keep them in your wallet because thats what you take with you pretty much everywhere you go.
Learn how long you can go without food and water before it clouds your judgement or starts to have a physiological effect.
Keep under your bed: a copy of your passport, a fully charged mobile phone with credit and contact details, enough money to get you out of the major legal zone (Eurozone/EU in my case), copies of your bank details, a Swiss army knife (two blades, bottle opener, corkscrew remover, screwdriver and wirestripper at minimum) and a decent amount of cash in acceptable foreign currencies.
Passwords. Arrange pet names to call friends for when something is wrong, or any sort of innocuous phrase you can sneak into a sentence. This dates back to WWII, when captured Allied radio operators asked for a bottle of whiskey when command asked them if they needed anything. This alerted the British to the fact that the radio operator was being coerced by Axis intelligence into giving his or her report.
Always carry a pen, paper, bottle, cash and belt on you at all times.
Good sturdy boots. Don't skimp on the price, Gore-Tex boots will hurt in the short run, but last forever (I bought mine 5 years ago and apart from relacing and scraping off some mud, they are pretty much as good as when I bought them. Its scary).
Learn the most widely recognized prayers of every major religion, in the language it should be known where necessary (La illaha ill Allah, Muhammadur Rasul Allah)
Get a detailed map of your town. Note easily defended areas, major transportation links, food supplies and areas to avoid (typically shopping malls, police checkpoints and government offices)
Get a friend to drop you off at least 50 miles from home with no money (no anything, except the clothes you are wearing) and only one pre-arranged meeting point, say 16 hours later. Now, try and get home.
Build up a decent supply of aqua tabs.
Practice awareness until it becomes a habit. Whenever you enter a room you should note all exits, all lines of view, where people are seated, possible locations that can be defended and items which can be used to improvise a weapon.
Get copies of as many of these books as possible, and read them frequently:
Major H von Dach - Total Resistance
B-GL-392-008/FP-001 - Ambush and Counter Ambush
US military Field Manuals (easily available)
Combat in Built up Areas Subcourse IN0531
Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms
FM 1-112 Attack Helicopter Operations
FM 100-14 Risk Management
FM 19-15 Civil Disturbances
FM 19-40 Enemy Prisoners of War, Civilian Internees, and Detained Persons
FM 20-3 Camouflage, Concealment, and Decoys
FM 21-76 - Survival
FM 24-12 Communications in a 'Come as You Are' War
FM 3-06 Urban Operations
FM 3-07-22 CounterInsurgency Operations
FM 3-24 Counterinsurgency
FM 31-20-5 Special Reconnaissance Tactics, Techniques, & Procedures For Special Forces
FM 31-21 Guerilla Warfare and Special Forces Operations
FM 31-70 Basic Cold Weather Manual
FM 34-2-1 Reconaissance and Surveillance and Intelligence Support to Counterreconaissance
FM 34-40-7 Communications Jamming Handbook
FM 34-52 Intelligence Interrogation
FM 34-8-2 Intelligence Officer's Handbook
FM 34-81-1 Battlefield Weather Effects
FM 4-02.4 Medical Platoon Leaders' Handbook
FM 7-100 Opposing Force Doctrinal Framework and Strategy
FM 7-98 Operations in a Low Intensity Conflict
FM 90-3 Desert Operations
FM 90-5 Jungle Operations
FM 34-40-2 Basic Cryptanalysis
MCRP 3-02H Survival Evasion and Recovery
MCRP 4-11.1C Treatment of Biological Warfare Agent Casualties
T-2819070-Military Basics Electronics Course
TM 21-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook
More later
Learn how to sew and learn basic-moderately advanced medical stuff; when and how to properly stitch someone up etc.
Indeed. One of the things I did forget to mention was to get hold of a good anatomy book. Useful for knowing what to do when things go bad, and also for 'reverse engineering'.
There's this fellow who goes by the name of FerFAL that is a survivalist type down in Argentina. He's been able to put his hobby to use and see what works and what doesn't in that particular economic meltdown....
here's his blag, 'Surviving Argentina':
ferfal.blogspot.com
there's a bunch of info by him scattered around the survivalist type websites, too.
interesting reading, the little bit that i've done....
there is one (and ONLY one) sure way to survive and thrive in the coming bad times.
that is to join my cannibal army.
Quote from: Dirtytime on January 24, 2009, 08:12:31 PM
there is one (and ONLY one) sure way to survive and thrive in the coming bad times.
that is to join my cannibal army.
. . . . wait a minute
Quote from: Dirtytime on January 24, 2009, 08:12:31 PM
there is one (and ONLY one) sure way to survive and thrive in the coming bad times.
that is to join my cannibal army.
TRUF!
Of all the groups rolling on long pork when the feces hit the air farm, yours will DOUBTLESS have the best cooking.
What would you recommend for recipes? I've heard a vinaigrette espoused to soften the meat (Thanks to the late Jorum Goldspoon, an excellent fellow), but not many other serious suggestions.
I almost forgot water bottles. Shit tons of them. Tarps. Rope.
Although he's kind of turned cheesy in the last decade or so, Tom Brown Jr.'s Field Guides are great introductions to wilderness survival, and almost everything can be translated to urban areas. http://www.amazon.com/Browns-Field-Guide-Wilderness-Survival/dp/0425105725
I have to admit that, as a kid, that book was my bible. I lived in the woods, occasionally for days at a time, much to my mother's chagrin (although since she moved to another town and left me alone in the cabin when I was 15, it must not have bothered her that much...) and applied most of the techniques. I loved sleeping in trees! There was a point in my life, between 11 and 13, when what I learned from Tom Brown Jr. helped keep me fed because my mom was too busy boozing and whoring to bring home leftovers from her waitressing job.
I know there are better books, but I have a definite soft spot for that one.
Quote from: Nigel on January 24, 2009, 09:05:45 PM
I almost forgot water bottles. Shit tons of them. Tarps. Rope.
Although he's kind of turned cheesy in the last decade or so, Tom Brown Jr.'s Field Guides are great introductions to wilderness survival, and almost everything can be translated to urban areas. http://www.amazon.com/Browns-Field-Guide-Wilderness-Survival/dp/0425105725
I have to admit that, as a kid, that book was my bible. I lived in the woods, occasionally for days at a time, much to my mother's chagrin (although since she moved to another town and left me alone in the cabin when I was 15, it must not have bothered her that much...) and applied most of the techniques. I loved sleeping in trees! There was a point in my life, between 11 and 13, when what I learned from Tom Brown Jr. helped keep me fed because my mom was too busy boozing and whoring to bring home leftovers from her waitressing job.
I know there are better books, but I have a definite soft spot for that one.
I used to read those too.
A couple of books I'd think would be useful are, Steal This Book, and some kind of depression era recipe book.
not exactly apocalyptic, but the have more plan (http://www.amazon.com/Have-More-Plan-Ed-Robinson/dp/0882660241) is chock full of information - much of it useful and related
Quote from: Fomenter on January 24, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
i don't trust the survivalist marketing style that that site uses, there are a lot of them and they all look about the same
the buying seeds and storing them for need is more what i was suggesting for being crazy prepared. if i had the money to spend i would do some research before buying, i had a different heirloom seeds site that was much better but couldn't find it to post
You and Nigel dropping in the info on seeds has been great. Lots of folks just don't focus on how necessary they will be if your given chunk of the world needs to regress to pre - industrial levels of technology and food production.
Also, I really agre with being wary of the "Survival" marketing tag. It can mean anything from a bush pilot's kit with water / food / snubnose .50 cal to a "Rambo" knife so packed with features it's virtually useless for anything knife - like.
IMHO:
"Survival" = get out of a bad situation quick, back into your primary area of support / infrastructure. 1 week duration. Pray the flares, dyes, mirror signals, or bright markers are seen. After that your powerbars and water packets begin to run out, and the multitools begin to break.
"Fieldcraft" = Setting up your own long term support. Tools on hand should be tough and versatile. A "Survival" kit, might save you time and energy so you don't have to carve your own bone fishhooks just yet, but you need to start making your own everything, and setting up with other people to assist as possible.
Quote from: Richter on January 25, 2009, 01:51:39 PM
Also, I really agre with being wary of the "Survival" marketing tag. It can mean anything from a bush pilot's kit with water / food / snubnose .50 cal to a "Rambo" knife so packed with features it's virtually useless for anything knife - like.
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4241/hknifekk2.jpg)
?
yeah, a moderate sized pocket knife with one or 2 blades is so much more useful than most of the multi tools out there.
Yeah multitools have the disadvantage of doing many things not perfectly. Separate tools will always work better. (A simple Swiss Army knife is the exception IMHO.)
I like a small folder for most fine work, and a small/medium fixed blade for serious cutting or outings.
I should really learn to make bows and arrows. Justify all the time I spent I spent learning to use them.
I've heard a little on the subject, though I'd go for a spear first, or an atalatal if I was feeling experimental.
Look for:
Springy wood for the bow / arrows (Yew?)
Feathers for fletching
Stone, metal, or glass fragments for the arrowhead (unless you want to sharpen and fire harden the tips.)
Sinew / tough fiber for a string, and to bind on the fletching / arrowhead.
Other niceties:
Pitch / Varnish (rendered pine sap, mixed with animal scat) to give water resistance, and adhear other additions
Skin / horn: split or cut, pitch and adhear these to the bow. This add to the weather resitance, and makes the bow stronger.
If you know ANY place I could find a solid fiberglass bow with a 50 # or higher draw, preferably the size of a Mongolian bow, I'll grab one as soon as finance allows. Aside from beign a fun toy, I like the idea of a strong, packable bow that won't get ruined by water.
Bows aren't that hard to make, once you know the basics, although, of course, like anything, it takes a lot of practice and experience to make really good bows.
Good arrows are pretty damn hard to make, though.
It's not hard to learn to make a sling, but takes a shit ton of practice to get good at using one. Slings are great for small mammal hunting though.
Quote from: Richter on January 26, 2009, 01:45:39 PM
If you know ANY place I could find a solid fiberglass bow with a 50 # or higher draw, preferably the size of a Mongolian bow, I'll grab one as soon as finance allows. Aside from beign a fun toy, I like the idea of a strong, packable bow that won't get ruined by water.
How's this one? http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=463984
Most of the bows they carry seem to have wood handles, but this one looks like it's all-synthetic.
It's all great, but.....
For those who don't live where they can plant a garden, my first piece of advice would be to move to where you can. A place where you can not only plant, but protect what you are growing. Living in an apartment in the city with no visible grass, it's gonna be hard to grow enough food to survive in pots in your bathroom!
Otherwise, Nigel's list is a really good one. Another suggestion in addition to basic medical skills, are basic butchering skills as well. It's all well and good to catch, grow or kill your own meat, but you have to know what to do with it afterwards. Besides cook it.
You'll like what I've got cooking for the blag then :)
Urban areas, especially east coast, will be a problem for their lack of clean, available water and plantable ground. You can't support too many folk can live off of rooftop gardens and rainwater collection.
If things really go to hell, I'm incredibly fortunate that they razed the lot behind me a couple of years ago, and it's just lying empty. It will definitely become a community farm if I have any input.
Yeah, if i acquire property, I'll be looking for some with a bit of land.
Quote from: Nigel on January 26, 2009, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: Richter on January 26, 2009, 01:45:39 PM
If you know ANY place I could find a solid fiberglass bow with a 50 # or higher draw, preferably the size of a Mongolian bow, I'll grab one as soon as finance allows. Aside from beign a fun toy, I like the idea of a strong, packable bow that won't get ruined by water.
How's this one? http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=463984
Most of the bows they carry seem to have wood handles, but this one looks like it's all-synthetic.
:) Thanks!
Quote from: Richter on January 23, 2009, 08:22:34 PM
Good one. Thanks!
You're welcome. Glad I could help.
Quote from: Richter on January 23, 2009, 08:22:34 PM
Your name brings to mind how I can (and will, given half a chance) rebuilt civilization out of the back deck of my ancient Volvo.
Now that sounds like an article for Intermittens.
Quote from: Sheered Völva on January 26, 2009, 11:15:17 PM
Quote from: Richter on January 23, 2009, 08:22:34 PM
Your name brings to mind how I can (and will, given half a chance) rebuilt civilization out of the back deck of my ancient Volvo.
Now that sounds like an article for Intermittens.
Actually, that sounds like part of an entire Intermittens theme.
:lulz:
If they want to incorporate it, I'll expand the idea as appropriate!
Quote from: Richter on January 26, 2009, 01:45:39 PM
I've heard a little on the subject, though I'd go for a spear first, or an atalatal if I was feeling experimental.
Look for:
Springy wood for the bow / arrows (Yew?)
Feathers for fletching
Stone, metal, or glass fragments for the arrowhead (unless you want to sharpen and fire harden the tips.)
Sinew / tough fiber for a string, and to bind on the fletching / arrowhead.
Other niceties:
Pitch / Varnish (rendered pine sap, mixed with animal scat) to give water resistance, and adhear other additions
Skin / horn: split or cut, pitch and adhear these to the bow. This add to the weather resitance, and makes the bow stronger.
If you know ANY place I could find a solid fiberglass bow with a 50 # or higher draw, preferably the size of a Mongolian bow, I'll grab one as soon as finance allows. Aside from beign a fun toy, I like the idea of a strong, packable bow that won't get ruined by water.
I bought mine at the archery range... unless you want to drive to salt lake I don't think that helps (Mine's also mostly wood, though I'm pretty sure they had fiberglass there).
I should probably learn to recognize different kinds of trees. Besides larches anyway.
Quote from: Cain on January 23, 2009, 08:09:40 PM
I demand you rename this thread Crazy Prepared, in honour of the TV Trope. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrazyPrepared
they use Naruto as reference point, suggestion to change it back
Also, a fifty pound draw on a non compound will be *very* hard to use, pulling it back is one thing, pulling it back and holding it steady is something else, make sure to put in a couple hundred shots a week (or day if you can) to get your muscles used to it if you expect to use it for survival.
deer weapon and zombie weapon
learn the difference
(A simple Swiss Army knife is the exception IMHO.)
maybe cause it fits in the hand still
i can figure out almost all those tools are used for except what is that broken ring in the middle
Thinking more long term, I should deposit some cultures of Penicillium notatum where I'm likely able to get at them. Should be interesting to explain to the health inspector.
Also, whats the plant that produces aspirin?
Edit: willow bark
SANDALS
The Vietnamese and people throughout the Third World make a fantastically durable and comfortable pair of sandals out of rubber tires. They cut out a section of the outer tire (trace around the outside of the foot with a piece of chalk) which when trimmed forms the sole. Next 6 slits re made in the sole so the rubber straps can be criss-crossed and slid through the slits. The straps are made out of inner tubing. No nails are needed. If you have wide feet, use the new wide tread low profiles. For hard going, try radials. For best satisfaction and quality, steal the tires off a pig car or a government limousine.
Quote from: Requiem on January 27, 2009, 07:57:07 AM
Also, a fifty pound draw on a non compound will be *very* hard to use, pulling it back is one thing, pulling it back and holding it steady is something else, make sure to put in a couple hundred shots a week (or day if you can) to get your muscles used to it if you expect to use it for survival.
I'm steady with a 45# currently, but it's a little lackluster. A 50-55# I prefer because it has better penetrating power and a flatter tragectory over 10 meters. It's a toss up, but too much time drawn to sight my target always messes me up, regardless of steadiness. I like to just fluidly draw, spot, release.
You're right, ANY tool is useless if you're not adept at using it. (Watch the new guy at a charity building project swing a hammer, for example.)
With bows, I've always pulled off the best shots with the ones I've been able to train as you desbribed, each one's a different animal.
I think I'll take some free time over the next few days to practice tying most of the knives I own to a pole in the same spirit. :wink:
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 27, 2009, 08:21:47 AM
deer weapon and zombie weapon
learn the difference
Meat on the hoof and fictional manifestation of humanity's self loathing.
Learn the difference. :)
I'm with you though. The Swiss Army Knife is still my favored bottle / can opener.
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 27, 2009, 10:56:45 AM
SANDALS
The Vietnamese and people throughout the Third World make a fantastically durable and comfortable pair of sandals out of rubber tires. They cut out a section of the outer tire (trace around the outside of the foot with a piece of chalk) which when trimmed forms the sole. Next 6 slits re made in the sole so the rubber straps can be criss-crossed and slid through the slits. The straps are made out of inner tubing. No nails are needed. If you have wide feet, use the new wide tread low profiles. For hard going, try radials. For best satisfaction and quality, steal the tires off a pig car or a government limousine.
THIS. :fap:
Sandals also, worn in humid hot enviroments, keep you free from the foot rot that is inevitable if you try to wear boots long term. It worked out, and still works great for the Vietnamese.
Supposedly good for your posture also. These kind of sandals worn by Masai were inspiration for "MBT shoes", which go for over 200$.
Quote from: whatc on January 27, 2009, 04:33:25 PM
Supposedly good for your posture also. These kind of sandals worn by Masai were inspiration for "MBT shoes", which go for over 200$.
"There is no sex without feet. The more feet, the better sex." -- Charlie the Centipede.
"There you go bragging again. I'm 10 times a better lover than you are!" -- Millie the Millipede
"Both of you, shut the fuck up!" -- Slim the Slug
Quote from: Richter on January 27, 2009, 02:02:15 PM
fictional manifestation of humanity's self loathing.
:cn:
also isnt there a trick to get fresh water by using a plastic tarp/tent
(was it macguyver or mr wizard that i remember this from)
water purification tablets worth it or just collect rain in barrels?
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 03:01:39 AM
Quote from: Richter on January 27, 2009, 02:02:15 PM
fictional manifestation of humanity's self loathing.
:cn:
also isnt there a trick to get fresh water by using a plastic tarp/tent
(was it macguyver or mr wizard that i remember this from)
water purification tablets worth it or just collect rain in barrels?
If the cloth you're using has a fine enough weave and folded many times, you can filter out copepods (little planktonic animals) that may carry nasty things like cholera or guinea worms.
Of course, this only
reduces the amount of contaminants, and thoroughly boiling water before you drink it is your safest option.
Reading through the army survival field manual. It has one specifically good tip I feel the need to share, on the making of survival kits.
Quote from: FM 3.05-703-6. In preparing your survival kit, select items that are
multipurpose, compact, lightweight, durable, and most
importantly, functional. An item is not good if it looks great but
doesn't do what it was designed for. Items should complement
each other from layer to layer. A signal mirror in your pocket can
be backed up by pen flares in your LBE and a signal panel in your
rucksack. A lighter in your uniform can be augmented by a
magnesium bar in your LBE and additional dry tinder in your
rucksack.
The specifics may not be the best option, but its encouraged me to compliment the lighter I carry with me with a spare bottle of lighter fluid in my car.
Speaking of the Army Survival Field Manual:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21753/US-Army-Survival-Field-Manual
In the interest of one upping Iason, I found this:
http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/59301233/field+manual?tab=summary
Which should have all the field manuals Cain mentioned, and then some. It's 2.5 gigabytes, so finding a torrent client that lets you pick and choose files might be a good idea (I have no idea what this would be in the windows world).
Bit Torrent would do the trick.
Quote from: Capuchin Cress on January 28, 2009, 04:03:21 AM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 03:01:39 AM
Quote from: Richter on January 27, 2009, 02:02:15 PM
fictional manifestation of humanity's self loathing.
:cn:
also isnt there a trick to get fresh water by using a plastic tarp/tent
(was it macguyver or mr wizard that i remember this from)
water purification tablets worth it or just collect rain in barrels?
If the cloth you're using has a fine enough weave and folded many times, you can filter out copepods (little planktonic animals) that may carry nasty things like cholera or guinea worms.
Of course, this only reduces the amount of contaminants, and thoroughly boiling water before you drink it is your safest option.
Bleach or iodine work too. I prefer the bleach, since you can disinfect the water, and then remove some of it by airation or letting the water stand uncovered for a bit, minimizing the funny taste. (Just don't leave it uncovered so long that it all evaporates.)
Quote from: Requiem on January 28, 2009, 07:58:11 AM
In the interest of one upping Iason, I found this:
http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/59301233/field+manual?tab=summary
Which should have all the field manuals Cain mentioned, and then some. It's 2.5 gigabytes, so finding a torrent client that lets you pick and choose files might be a good idea (I have no idea what this would be in the windows world).
utorrent from utorrent.com lets you pick the files and has the pleasant feature that it's a small download and doesnt use a lot of memory or processing power.
Quote from: Requiem on January 28, 2009, 04:19:52 AM
Reading through the army survival field manual. It has one specifically good tip I feel the need to share, on the making of survival kits.
Quote from: FM 3.05-703-6. In preparing your survival kit, select items that are
multipurpose, compact, lightweight, durable, and most
importantly, functional. An item is not good if it looks great but
doesn't do what it was designed for. Items should complement
each other from layer to layer. A signal mirror in your pocket can
be backed up by pen flares in your LBE and a signal panel in your
rucksack. A lighter in your uniform can be augmented by a
magnesium bar in your LBE and additional dry tinder in your
rucksack.
The specifics may not be the best option, but its encouraged me to compliment the lighter I carry with me with a spare bottle of lighter fluid in my car.
A flamable lubricant like WD-40 could work too. I've lit many a campfire with that stuff. Odd that we'd worry about this while riding in vehicles powered by flammable liquid :wink:
Quote from: Iptuous on January 24, 2009, 03:44:18 PM
There's this fellow who goes by the name of FerFAL that is a survivalist type down in Argentina. He's been able to put his hobby to use and see what works and what doesn't in that particular economic meltdown....
here's his blag, 'Surviving Argentina':
ferfal.blogspot.com
there's a bunch of info by him scattered around the survivalist type websites, too.
interesting reading, the little bit that i've done....
thanks for that link. his blog is pretty interesting (and sobering) reading.
I can't Torrent from my school. This means they do not want me to be CRAZY PREPARED and thus intend to use me as slave labor/food in the aftermath. :tinfoilhat:
Quote from: Mask of the K on January 26, 2009, 05:57:13 PM
It's all great, but.....
For those who don't live where they can plant a garden, my first piece of advice would be to move to where you can. A place where you can not only plant, but protect what you are growing. Living in an apartment in the city with no visible grass, it's gonna be hard to grow enough food to survive in pots in your bathroom!
Otherwise, Nigel's list is a really good one. Another suggestion in addition to basic medical skills, are basic butchering skills as well. It's all well and good to catch, grow or kill your own meat, but you have to know what to do with it afterwards. Besides cook it.
the assumption that if TSHTF everyone will run to the countryside and be OK by growing their own food is laughable.
when it's not being taken seriously by people I like.
Growing your own food is HARD PHYSICAL WORK, people. Work which you will have to do in addition to all the other tasks you will suddenly be responsible for like building and/or maintaining a shelter, maintaining physical security, procuring non-growable supplies (unless you plan on growing a new plow blade when yours breaks), etc. Unless you get it exactly right the first time and every single time thereafter (imagine how devastating even ONE crop failure would be), you're probably looking at a net energy loss in that situation. In laymen's terms, that means you starve to death.
Remember, the "zombie apocalypse" isn't going to be just that. It's going to be a slow, downward grind until everyone that's not insanely rich is going to be dirt poor. It's going to resemble neo-feudalism more than anything else. And just like they were then and are now, towns and cities are going to be important nexus points for commerce and trade. You will still have an easier time buying/bartering for food with more easily obtained commodities than you will growing enough to feed you and your dependents. And let's not forget that while cities and towns will come with a pervasive and permanent lol-level lack of physical security, in the countryside you are much more vulnerable to more sustained and more brutal encounters, less frequent though they may be. In the city, bad people will rob your house and maybe even kill you and/or your family, but they'll do it
quickly. There are things worse than dying and watching your family being raped/beaten/tortured for several days
before you die because none of your neighbors are close enough to hear you screaming is one of them.
Quote from: Dirtytime on January 28, 2009, 07:07:42 PMa pervasive and permanent lol-level lack of security
at first I thought this was a typo, then I decided that it wasn't.
Quote from: Dirtytime on January 28, 2009, 07:07:42 PM
Quote from: Mask of the K on January 26, 2009, 05:57:13 PM
It's all great, but.....
For those who don't live where they can plant a garden, my first piece of advice would be to move to where you can. A place where you can not only plant, but protect what you are growing. Living in an apartment in the city with no visible grass, it's gonna be hard to grow enough food to survive in pots in your bathroom!
Otherwise, Nigel's list is a really good one. Another suggestion in addition to basic medical skills, are basic butchering skills as well. It's all well and good to catch, grow or kill your own meat, but you have to know what to do with it afterwards. Besides cook it.
the assumption that if TSHTF everyone will run to the countryside and be OK by growing their own food is laughable.
when it's not being taken seriously by people I like.
Growing your own food is HARD PHYSICAL WORK, people. Work which you will have to do in addition to all the other tasks you will suddenly be responsible for like building and/or maintaining a shelter, maintaining physical security, procuring non-growable supplies (unless you plan on growing a new plow blade when yours breaks), etc. Unless you get it exactly right the first time and every single time thereafter (imagine how devastating even ONE crop failure would be), you're probably looking at a net energy loss in that situation. In laymen's terms, that means you starve to death.
Remember, the "zombie apocalypse" isn't going to be just that. It's going to be a slow, downward grind until everyone that's not insanely rich is going to be dirt poor. It's going to resemble neo-feudalism more than anything else. And just like they were then and are now, towns and cities are going to be important nexus points for commerce and trade. You will still have an easier time buying/bartering for food with more easily obtained commodities than you will growing enough to feed you and your dependents. And let's not forget that while cities and towns will come with a pervasive and permanent lol-level lack of physical security, in the countryside you are much more vulnerable to more sustained and more brutal encounters, less frequent though they may be. In the city, bad people will rob your house and maybe even kill you and/or your family, but they'll do it quickly. There are things worse than dying and watching your family being raped/beaten/tortured for several days before you die because none of your neighbors are close enough to hear you screaming is one of them.
..and THAT folks, is the stark horrible truth of it all. :mittens:
We used to live very close to a Mohawk Indian reservation in upstate New York, when I was very little.
My mom was working on a small garden in our yard and when a Mohawk guy she knew to be a good gardener (many of them were, iirc), she apologetically dismissed it as a hobby attempt. He laughed and said there was nothing to be ashamed of, because "the time to learn to garden is not when you're hungry."
Quote from: Capuchin Cress on January 28, 2009, 04:03:21 AM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 03:01:39 AM
also isnt there a trick to get fresh water by using a plastic tarp/tent
(was it macguyver or mr wizard that i remember this from)
water purification tablets worth it or just collect rain in barrels?
If the cloth you're using has a fine enough weave and folded many times, you can filter out copepods (little planktonic animals) that may carry nasty things like cholera or guinea worms.
Of course, this only reduces the amount of contaminants, and thoroughly boiling water before you drink it is your safest option.
i was thinking methods of collecting water condensation or rain water to avoid having to stock pile it
removing salt would be a plus
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 08:50:33 PM
Quote from: Capuchin Cress on January 28, 2009, 04:03:21 AM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 03:01:39 AM
also isnt there a trick to get fresh water by using a plastic tarp/tent
(was it macguyver or mr wizard that i remember this from)
water purification tablets worth it or just collect rain in barrels?
If the cloth you're using has a fine enough weave and folded many times, you can filter out copepods (little planktonic animals) that may carry nasty things like cholera or guinea worms.
Of course, this only reduces the amount of contaminants, and thoroughly boiling water before you drink it is your safest option.
i was thinking methods of collecting water condensation or rain water to avoid having to stock pile it
removing salt would be a plus
I think the trick your thinking of is to lay a tarp out, then fold it up and collect condensation in the early morning.
Unfortunately, this is completely useless in the desert.* Tabs are good for emergencies, but boiling + filtration (for chemicals) is still best.
*Incidentally, stay the fuck out of deserts. An expert survivalist wouldn't last a week in some of them.
Some more torrents
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1777589/?show_files=1&page=1&ref=1233181348#file_list
Quote from: Dirtytime on January 28, 2009, 06:47:10 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on January 24, 2009, 03:44:18 PM
There's this fellow who goes by the name of FerFAL that is a survivalist type down in Argentina. He's been able to put his hobby to use and see what works and what doesn't in that particular economic meltdown....
here's his blag, 'Surviving Argentina':
ferfal.blogspot.com
there's a bunch of info by him scattered around the survivalist type websites, too.
interesting reading, the little bit that i've done....
thanks for that link. his blog is pretty interesting (and sobering) reading.
I still haven't read that, but since he's in Argentina, its probably a good read. They got an early start on economic meltdowns.
Quote from: Requiem on January 28, 2009, 10:19:20 PM
I think the trick your thinking of is to lay a tarp out, then fold it up and collect condensation in the early morning.
Unfortunately, this is completely useless in the desert.* Tabs are good for emergencies, but boiling + filtration (for chemicals) is still best.
*Incidentally, stay the fuck out of deserts. An expert survivalist wouldn't last a week in some of them.
Or, perhaps he was thinking about the water container with a transparent tarp sealed around the top with the middle weighted down by a stone and an empty container in the middle allowing for the evaporated water that condenses on the tarp (or saran wrap) to drip into the empty container....
this seems like a more Mr.Wizardly type thing...
potato batteries, how and how many would you need to have radio output
other useful things for potatos...
easy grow methods?
can you cook things in the sun with tinfoil? what the the limitions
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 10:42:51 PM
potato batteries, how and how many would you need to have radio output
other useful things for potatos...
easy grow methods?
You can stack up abandoned tires, fill them with dirt and manure, and plant your potatoes in them.
Elegant, just knock them over to harvest!
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 10:42:51 PM
potato batteries, how and how many would you need to have radio output
A simple hand crank radio would be much more efficient. They are getting pretty cheap too. You can find one with AM/FM/Weather Band plus a flashlight for under $50.
ECH/Dirtytime has TCM
The main question is how long will this situation last, maybe I'm being optimistic, but I would say that it won't be forever, maybe a decade before stuff settles down a bit. In which case I think I'd stay in the city, (also that said Australian cities aren't that big anyway).
Still, this is a thread for being crazy prepared.
Cities will be hell on earth if the food supply is interrupted for any length of time. Doesn't mean you shouldn't stay, but you should definitely be ready to pull out. Small towns, especially ones in farming areas, should fare better.*
Looking at nutrition labels in the grocery store today, I decided Spam might be the ultimate ration food. Relatively cheap, 1000 calories per 12 ounce tin, 42 grams of protein, with lots of salt. Not enough nutritionally on its own, but it might help more than any one thing.
*At least until whats left of the army shows up to steal all the food.
I have no problem living off canned food if I have to. Spam and multivitamin tablets, the breakfast of champions. I mean if it is good enough for the fallout shelters of Cold War families.
Also that army thing is a big reason of why I'd stay in the city. Whether it be regular army or militias I think I'd fare better in an urban environment.
Plus people like wade running around the country side shooting people up, not my idea of fun.
A little less meat consumption and switching to a more vegetable/fuit/funghi/fillinandbecreative-diet should quickly solve most of our food production problems... gives you less of an hormonal imbalance, too. :)
http://www.nukalert.com/ worth the $160?
or something else cheaper?
Quote from: willem on January 29, 2009, 09:11:50 AM
A little less meat consumption and switching to a more vegetable/fuit/funghi/fillinandbecreative-diet should quickly solve most of our food production problems... gives you less of an hormonal imbalance, too. :)
Oh yes, because a complete fucking breakdown in transporting the food to the cities could be solved by changing the type of the food the farmers are growing. Not to mention all the fucking fruit trees that grow naturally in Wyoming.
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 29, 2009, 09:26:52 AM
http://www.nukalert.com/ worth the $160?
or something else cheaper?
Hrm... I'd want to research it more, see if the experts found any problems with it. Assuming its reliable (and loud) though, its size and battery life make it ideal. I want one.
Quote from: Requiem on January 29, 2009, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: willem on January 29, 2009, 09:11:50 AM
A little less meat consumption and switching to a more vegetable/fuit/funghi/fillinandbecreative-diet should quickly solve most of our food production problems... gives you less of an hormonal imbalance, too. :)
Oh yes, because a complete fucking breakdown in transporting the food to the cities could be solved by changing the type of the food the farmers are growing. Not to mention all the fucking fruit trees that grow naturally in Wyoming.
Like I said. Food - production (!) - problems.
Could've been off-topic tho. :P
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 29, 2009, 09:26:52 AM
http://www.nukalert.com/ worth the $160?
or something else cheaper?
Looks like it doesn't detect alpha radiation so maybe not the best
Quote from: willem on January 29, 2009, 09:11:50 AM
A little less meat consumption and switching to a more vegetable/fuit/funghi/fillinandbecreative-diet should quickly solve most of our food production problems
I defy you to back that statement up with anything even remotely resembling science.
Quote from: Requiem on January 29, 2009, 09:37:47 AM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 29, 2009, 09:26:52 AM
http://www.nukalert.com/ worth the $160?
or something else cheaper?
Hrm... I'd want to research it more, see if the experts found any problems with it. Assuming its reliable (and loud) though, its size and battery life make it ideal. I want one.
An idea, but for the price I wonder about getting a REAL Geiger counter.
Also, I agree with the notion that we're liekely to see a slow degenerating slide a rather than a Cold War style blow out. Unless nuclear terorism becomes REALLY popular, I'm not convinced of the necessity.
I am. Convinced of the necessity of nuclear terrorism, that is.
I want to see Lord West shit a brick the size of HMS Ardent.
Quote from: Rumckle on January 29, 2009, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 29, 2009, 09:26:52 AM
http://www.nukalert.com/ worth the $160?
or something else cheaper?
Looks like it doesn't detect alpha radiation so maybe not the best
Wait... isn't alpha the one thats ten times as deadly?
Quote from: Dirtytime on January 29, 2009, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: willem on January 29, 2009, 09:11:50 AM
A little less meat consumption and switching to a more vegetable/fuit/funghi/fillinandbecreative-diet should quickly solve most of our food production problems
I defy you to back that statement up with anything even remotely resembling science.
Just think: How much feed (grain, water) does it take to raise a cow to adult age. Or try to imagine what weight of food you have consumed in your life to gain your current 80kg (or thereabouts) - I'm sure it's about the same ratio. :)
Quote from: willem on January 29, 2009, 06:50:39 PM
Quote from: Dirtytime on January 29, 2009, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: willem on January 29, 2009, 09:11:50 AM
A little less meat consumption and switching to a more vegetable/fuit/funghi/fillinandbecreative-diet should quickly solve most of our food production problems
I defy you to back that statement up with anything even remotely resembling science.
Just think: How much feed does it take to raise a cow to adult age. Or try to imagine what weight of food you have consumed in your life to gain your current 80kg (or thereabouts).
What you're saying is that livestock is a less efficient way of getting calories, if I'm interpreting you correctly. As far as I know, this is true.
It's probably reasonable to figure that we'd stop feeding cows, pigs, and chickens perfectly good corn in the event of an apocalypse. However, it's also likely that surviving livestock would be able to feed on grass and hay, so people could conceivably still get their animal protein, albeit in much lesser (and leaner) quantities.
what if sun = fail?
i was thinking more short term. its best to not have all your eggs in one basket
Quote from: willem on January 29, 2009, 06:50:39 PM
Quote from: Dirtytime on January 29, 2009, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: willem on January 29, 2009, 09:11:50 AM
A little less meat consumption and switching to a more vegetable/fuit/funghi/fillinandbecreative-diet should quickly solve most of our food production problems
I defy you to back that statement up with anything even remotely resembling science.
Just think: How much feed (grain, water) does it take to raise a cow to adult age. Or try to imagine what weight of food you have consumed in your life to gain your current 80kg (or thereabouts) - I'm sure it's about the same ratio. :)
Even if we only grow a fourth the food we do now, its still more than we need. The big risk is that food transportation is interrupted (IE, the dollar collapses even further, we can no longer afford to import oil, and the government refuses to stop the mass exporting that will result with the value of at a minimum), in which case it matters little what the farmers are growing, since it can't get to the cities. In fact, meat becomes *more* efficient in this case, since its high calorie density means more people can feed off a narrow pipeline. Meat, especially cattle, could be taken to a city on foot as well.
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 29, 2009, 07:03:33 PM
i was thinking more short term. its best to not have all your eggs in one basket
You mean like a nuclear winter?
Invest in mushrooms then.
could even be season drought or lack of sun
always thinking the worst
Quote from: Requiem on January 29, 2009, 07:32:28 PM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 29, 2009, 07:03:33 PM
i was thinking more short term. its best to not have all your eggs in one basket
You mean like a nuclear winter?
Invest in mushrooms then.
I'd think an area with existing hot springs or other geothermal activity would be ideal for this.
Here's one idea we've had around for a bit, and came up recently chatting with Leln and others.
Assemble the following and keep them in a waterproof pouch:
- Copy of your all your various ID (Licence, Social Security Card, Birth Certificate)
- Passport (if you hold one, if not GET ONE WHILE YOU CAN.)
- Cash in various sized bills
- An active credit card you don't use for anything else
If you have to LEAVE, bug out, or skip town, and can lay hands on this, then at least you have proof of your identity, citizenship, and some means to get by with. Probably the first place I heard this was from a mentor of mine in High School. She'd been reading about the conflict in Kosovo, the refugees, and how important it suddenly became to be able to prove who they were. (local records destroyed and computer databases VERY OFFLINE). It's been reitterated and reinforced by both articles (on getting through periods of social unrest and natural disasters), and other folks who are on the same wavelength over the years.
Granted, this is only useful in a more genteel state of disaster, where anyone cares who you are, credit cards are still accepted, and money is more than kindling. This isn't, on it's own, a compelte kit for getting out of Dodge, but if you have to play with airlines, official agencies, or borders along your way, it will make things easier (read: POSSIBLE).
To this kit, I'm also inclined to say, could be rounded out with a small amount of gold (in the form of simple jewelry, for concealability and ease of traneport. Save the krugerands for your REALLY BAD TIMES kit.) Bribes aren't exactly possible with a credit card, and are useless with the cash of a collapsed nation, but I've yet to hear of a society that doesn't accept gold. If you have to bounce to foreign country, it could also be pawned to get local currency faster and less questioned than at an exchange office. Use CAREFULLY, if at all, robbery is cheaper than exchange, and refugee lives look cheap.
One of the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane was that almost nobody had backup IDs and whatnot - they were destroyed in the flooding. Which made proving that you were the person on the title deed to a destroyed house, and that you therefore qualified for whatever program difficult.
Titles, that's another good one to add. Might help on the off chance there's anyhting to go back to.
Quote from: GA on January 29, 2009, 11:34:34 PM
One of the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane was that almost nobody had backup IDs and whatnot - they were destroyed in the flooding.
One sobering story I heard out of Katrina. The National Guard organizing the evacuation often found people telling them they'd rather stay. One clever bloke told them that was fine, and it was their choice. He then asked them to do them a favor, take a Sharpie, and write their SSN down one bicep, and one thigh. He explained this made ID'ing a bloated corpse in the river MUCH easier, especially with pieces missing. Most people decided to leave after hearing this.
If you were out someplace that was relatively easy to forget about, say northern Idaho or Montana, you might be able to get away with homesteading, in which case some animals would be good. Personally, I think sheep would be a good idea; lots of uses.
Quote from: Quercus on January 30, 2009, 01:17:18 AM
If you were out someplace that was relatively easy to forget about, say northern Idaho or Montana, you might be able to get away with homesteading, in which case some animals would be good. Personally, I think sheep would be a good idea; lots of uses.
:lmnuendo:
Quote from: Quercus on January 30, 2009, 01:17:18 AM
If you were out someplace that was relatively easy to forget about, say northern Idaho or Montana, you might be able to get away with homesteading, in which case some animals would be good. Personally, I think sheep would be a good idea; lots of uses.
Sheep would be a good choice, but I'd do goats and chickens first. Milk and eggs to add a more steady source of protein, then sheep for wool.
Quote from: Richter on January 30, 2009, 02:13:12 AM
Quote from: Quercus on January 30, 2009, 01:17:18 AM
If you were out someplace that was relatively easy to forget about, say northern Idaho or Montana, you might be able to get away with homesteading, in which case some animals would be good. Personally, I think sheep would be a good idea; lots of uses.
Sheep would be a good choice, but I'd do goats and chickens first. Milk and eggs to add a more steady source of protein, then sheep for wool.
:lmnuendo:
Quote from: Requiem on January 29, 2009, 06:15:10 PM
Quote from: Rumckle on January 29, 2009, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 29, 2009, 09:26:52 AM
http://www.nukalert.com/ worth the $160?
or something else cheaper?
Looks like it doesn't detect alpha radiation so maybe not the best
Wait... isn't alpha the one thats ten times as deadly?
Alpha particles are great at messing up DNA, but they're blocked by your layer of dead skin cells. Alpha emitters are harmless unless you swallow or inhale an alpha emitter (like polonium or uranium.)
I'm thinking of a different one then.
*ponders* I should see if I can come up with plans yo build your own radiation detectors, some fire alarm models mught have the right parts.
Quote from: Requiem on January 29, 2009, 07:31:28 PM
Even if we only grow a fourth the food we do now, its still more than we need. The big risk is that food transportation is interrupted (IE, the dollar collapses even further, we can no longer afford to import oil, and the government refuses to stop the mass exporting that will result with the value of at a minimum), in which case it matters little what the farmers are growing, since it can't get to the cities. In fact, meat becomes *more* efficient in this case, since its high calorie density means more people can feed off a narrow pipeline. Meat, especially cattle, could be taken to a city on foot as well.
Oh, you're talking about the US only. To be honest, I don't particularly care more about the US than any other country. :)
It's true that the US produces too much and the wrong kind of food. (I'm a Belgian, we have high food standards, sorry. :P )
Hey, why don't we westerners produce less excess food & meat, and spend all that bleeding agricultural support money on transport & energy efficiency. Wouldn't that be great? :P
Quote from: Requiem on January 30, 2009, 03:23:44 AM
I'm thinking of a different one then.
*ponders* I should see if I can come up with plans yo build your own radiation detectors, some fire alarm models mught have the right parts.
I'm not certain, but I think smoke detectors would detect alpha radiation.
I've determined that remembering how to make a Geiger counter, even in the best possible conditions, is not feasible with my level of memory. The detector itself is simple, basically a capacitor where radiation closes the gap, but wiring it to 500 volts is less so. I'd need expertise at electronics in general, so that I'm able to design one from the ground up.
To start a fire: Steel wool + a 9 v. battery, or any battery of higher voltage. You're basically blowing dozens of fuses (or more) at once to produce heat. This IS shorting the circuit so be aware of damage to the battery and yourself with higher voltages.
For those who never had the benefit of learnign when they were younger, keep everything DRY SHIELDED and be ready to slowly feed you fire from twigs and shavings up to a full roaring blaze. Go slow, it doesn't matter how much fuel you have if you dump it on and extinguish it.
at most military surplus stores you can buy a magnesium block with a flint rod embedded in one side of it. shave the magnesium block with your pocketknife (you DO have a good knife, right?), arrange a pile of tinder around the magnesium shavings leaving enough room on one side to stick the flint in there and drag your knife across it. Spark the magnesium shavings and those suckers will burn HOT and ignite the tinder. Most important part is that the magnesium, flint, and knife all work just as well if they're wet.
I keep one of those magnesium chunks in the bag, they work well. They make some crazy alloy rods that provide much more sparkage, but they don't have the advantage of being able to pile up the shavings. Makes situations with less than perfectly dry kindling easier.
Waterproof matches seem to work halfway decent, I completely soaked one and it still lit, did not burn as long as a regular match though. Steel wool also makes excellent tinder in general.
Something else I found at the Army surplus store I had forgotten about, thermal blankets. Cheap, fit in your pocket, and very warm. Shiny as hell and could probably double as a signaling device. Need to see if I can't find one of those cheap emergency ponchos made out of the same material.
*Has been caught outside in a blizzard unprepared before, 50 feet from shelter it a long long way away when you can't see your hands.
Also, I would prefer *not* to be holding a bunch of magnesium in my hands while creating a shower of sparks, do they come with the flint separate?
About the magnesium, it depends. Remember that it's a metal, and metals conduct heat VERY well. Magnesium ribbon, like you use in chemistry class, or on a job site to light thermite, is thin, and takes a blowtorch to light it. Magnesium shavings from the bar CAN light with a spark, only because a spark is a VERY intense, albeit small burning chunk itself, that hits a very small peice of the metal. The heat of a similar spark to a solid bar will NEVER light it. It's just spread out too fast.
I like the blizzard story, and I've done similar. Last year, during a blizzard that made Worcester un - driveable, I decided to take a walk to get beer. The liquor store was 2 miles, round trip, over one of the city's seven hills. I wore good boots, hat, thermals, sweater, duster, etc, so I wasn't going to freeze or soak.
The way there was fine, but the way back got tough. (I ran into my father buying beer, who admitted he WASN'T going to try to drive me back. I agreed with him, it would have gotten us both stuck.) While I was out, the snow had gone from 1 inch to 3, very dense, so going back uphill took dragging my foot through each step. It tired me out quick, and I started to wondering if I'd be able to push through it all. Aside from the possibility of flagging down help, or knocking on a door half dead and asking for an ambulance, I figured the worse I'd do was dig into a snow drift, using my duster and pine boughs for cover, and get a bit of rest. I made the top of the hill and was OK from there, though.
Snow, although cold, insulates, and snow shelters keep themselves at 32 degrees easily. Not comfy, but surviveable, and they keep the wind out, especially with more body heat or a small fire. (Just be careful to vent them enough so you don't suffocate.)
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1786256/27467304/
Because it was being asked...primitive bow making guide. Would still prefer a compound bow with a decent weighted draw, but sometimes you don't get that option.
Also http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4702607/Where_There_Is_No_Doctor_-_(Malestrom)
Quote from: Richter on January 30, 2009, 02:13:12 AM
Sheep would be a good choice, but I'd do goats and chickens first.
Chickens would be a little small for me.
Quote from: Sheered Völva on February 04, 2009, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Richter on January 30, 2009, 02:13:12 AM
Sheep would be a good choice, but I'd do goats and chickens first.
Chickens would be a little small for me.
Metaphorically, used in that sense they're like raincoats.
The Goat is the fine oilskin duster. It ain't pretty, and don't always smell too good, but it will last you a LONG time.
The Chicken is the disposable plastic parka. You wear it once. Twice if you're unlucky, desperate, or silly. The benefit is you can keep allot more around.
Aside from my calm acceptance and nonjudegmental treatment of your goat - fucking lifestyle, and advice about how to adapt it to chickens,
WHAT IN THE NAME OF BUDDHA'S BALLS IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Quote from: Richter on February 04, 2009, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: Sheered Völva on February 04, 2009, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Richter on January 30, 2009, 02:13:12 AM
Sheep would be a good choice, but I'd do goats and chickens first.
Chickens would be a little small for me.
Metaphorically, used in that sense they're like raincoats.
The Goat is the fine oilskin duster. It ain't pretty, and don't always smell too good, but it will last you a LONG time.
The Chicken is the disposable plastic parka. You wear it once. Twice if you're unlucky, desperate, or silly. The benefit is you can keep allot more around.
Aside from my calm acceptance and nonjudegmental treatment of your goat - fucking lifestyle, and advice about how to adapt it to chickens,
WHAT IN THE NAME OF BUDDHA'S BALLS IS WRONG WITH YOU?
What's wrong with me? I'm here, aren't I? That should explain it. :wink:
Quote from: Cain on February 04, 2009, 11:27:35 AM
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1786256/27467304/
Because it was being asked...primitive bow making guide. Would still prefer a compound bow with a decent weighted draw, but sometimes you don't get that option.
I'd prefer a nice high powered rifle and a few thousand rounds of ammunition, if I'm using a bow for something other than fun, things have gone seriously south.
Quote from: Sheered Völva on February 04, 2009, 06:04:11 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 04, 2009, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: Sheered Völva on February 04, 2009, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Richter on January 30, 2009, 02:13:12 AM
Sheep would be a good choice, but I'd do goats and chickens first.
Chickens would be a little small for me.
Metaphorically, used in that sense they're like raincoats.
The Goat is the fine oilskin duster. It ain't pretty, and don't always smell too good, but it will last you a LONG time.
The Chicken is the disposable plastic parka. You wear it once. Twice if you're unlucky, desperate, or silly. The benefit is you can keep allot more around.
Aside from my calm acceptance and nonjudegmental treatment of your goat - fucking lifestyle, and advice about how to adapt it to chickens,
WHAT IN THE NAME OF BUDDHA'S BALLS IS WRONG WITH YOU?
What's wrong with me? I'm here, aren't I? That should explain it. :wink:
Well spoken :) If you don't blink at goat fuckign accusations, you're in the right place.
Making a bow seems extraordinarily hard without a supply chain in place :(
Quote from: Cain on February 04, 2009, 04:22:27 PM
Also http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4702607/Where_There_Is_No_Doctor_-_(Malestrom)
:) :D :mrgreen:!
if you don't have a firearm, your time and energy is probably better invested in building traps than it is in bowhunting.
A deer can be brought down with a pretty simple deadfall trap if you're lucky, and smaller game such as rabbits, squirrels, and groundbirds are almost comically simple to trap. Also, in a pinch, you can always stretch a net out downstream from a beaver pond. Cut off the tail, throw away the beaver (unless you need the hide or fur), and hang the tail over your campfire (cut end up) at a height that will provide fairly even heat without scorching the tail. When it starts to flake and peel, it should be done. won't taste great and the texture might be off-putting (though not unpalatable) but it's PACKED with calories, protein, and vitamins.
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 05, 2009, 03:20:42 AM
if you don't have a firearm, your time and energy is probably better invested in building traps than it is in bowhunting.
A deer can be brought down with a pretty simple deadfall trap if you're lucky, and smaller game such as rabbits, squirrels, and groundbirds are almost comically simple to trap. Also, in a pinch, you can always stretch a net out downstream from a beaver pond. Cut off the tail, throw away the beaver (unless you need the hide or fur), and hang the tail over your campfire (cut end up) at a height that will provide fairly even heat without scorching the tail. When it starts to flake and peel, it should be done. won't taste great and the texture might be off-putting (though not unpalatable) but it's PACKED with calories, protein, and vitamins.
"throw away the beaver" wasteful :lmnuendo:
"without scorching the tail" what if they like it scorched :lmnuendo:
"won't taste great and the texture might be off-putting" :lmnuendo:
"but it's PACKED " :lmnuendo:
This thread = Now about Bush Meat Innuendo.
:lmnuendo:
Traps are definitely more economical. If you're going to be in an area for a while, I would suggest them as well.
But, well, its nice to have a bow sometimes. Gives you something to do on the long winter nights as civilization burns to the ground.
Oh, and this comment from the blog that Iptuous linked to is very pertinent, I believe:
QuoteThings will get worse, pretty bad for some ( specially those that have a hard time finding a job again) And the crappy situation will likely last for years. This is hard to avoid or to speed up the healing process.
But USA is still USA, the economy wont be utterly destroyed like it happened here ( we only have a mock of what a real economy should be, every serious non gov fund economist says so)
It's going to get tougher, specially regarding everyday security.
Not zombies or gang of biker looters, but everyday stuff.
"Billy got mugged" "The guy that lives across the street got attacked"
"The girl that lives next door was robbed last night" "The Smith's got robbed at their home, they tied them up and picked the house clean" And yes, people will get killed more often to.
You guys have race related problems and internal conflicts. Expect that to escalate some.
I know it already happens in USA but my point is it will happen much more as things follow their post-crash natural course.
You'll hear these things a LOT.
It wont be on the news ( news will show just part, and foucs on other things so as not to spread panic) , it will be happening to you and the people around you, it's going to be what you talk about when you pick the kids from school, and the teacher will chip in with HER robbery ( this actually happened to me, the teacher had been carjacked at gunpoint in front of the school at 7 AM, in spite of the private school's hired security)
So crime and insecurity will be something you live with, and the big "other" thing you'll have to worry about besides the economy, your job, and making enough money.
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2009/02/reply-debts-and-devaluated-currency.html
yeah, FerFAL seems to have his head on pretty straight about this sort of stuff.
crossbows are funner, plus long pigs tend to avoid the traps
Traps, used a lot over a wide area, can provide a more steady stream of small / medium game, and work on their own. If you want to hunt larger game during the rounds checking your snares, deadfalls, and pits, then you're on the right track. Grab edible plants, roots, mushrooms, and berries while you're at it.
Yatto: Long pig can be easily caught / shot while they're poaching a squirrel out of your snare.
We are Omnivores. We can (and SHOULD) mix and match how we gather food when we can't cultivate.
Reminder: Cotton, in a wet environment is DEATH.
If cotton clothes get wet, they will leach heat out of your body as they dry. You are better off removing them and hanging around naked.
Yes, I've tried this. Everyone EXCEPT the ones trained in surviving cold / wet conditions thought I was crazy. Your body can heat itself decently when it has to. (How LONG it can do this, however depends on the person and the conditions.)
Fabrics that won't (off the top of my head) : WOOL. POLY (ester and propylene). RAYON.
acrylic is fucking AWESOME. It has most of the same properties as wool but it is lighter and (unless you're like me and only buy merino) more comfortable.
http://www.empowerthyself.com/overview
Heard this might be useful, though I haven't really had a chance to look much.
ProTip: Don't have Raynaud's Syndrome.
If civilization degrades to the point where getting hot water and just plain ol' warmth become a serious problem, people like me are gonna lose our fingers come winter.
Also, Yatto reminded me of something I was thinking about:
Crossbow vs Bow, what's the opinion?
both in ease to make (and make well), and usefulness in such situations.
QuoteIf cotton clothes get wet, they will leach heat out of your body as they dry. You are better off removing them and hanging around naked.
Yes, I've tried this. Everyone EXCEPT the ones trained in surviving cold / wet conditions thought I was crazy.
And the ones who have basic knowledge of thermodynamics... or just plain everyday cooling systems - what happens when liquids evaporate. :)
Quote from: Rumckle on February 07, 2009, 11:40:13 AM
Also, Yatto reminded me of something I was thinking about:
Crossbow vs Bow, what's the opinion?
both in ease to make (and make well), and usefulness in such situations.
Unless you're already good with a bow, or else are in it for an extremely long haul, don't bother, crossbows are probably easier to use, and might be easier to make, assuming you have the wreckage of civilization to salvage parts from.
Quote from: Requiem on February 07, 2009, 07:41:08 PM
Quote from: Rumckle on February 07, 2009, 11:40:13 AM
Also, Yatto reminded me of something I was thinking about:
Crossbow vs Bow, what's the opinion?
both in ease to make (and make well), and usefulness in such situations.
Unless you're already good with a bow, or else are in it for an extremely long haul, don't bother, crossbows are probably easier to use, and might be easier to make, assuming you have the wreckage of civilization to salvage parts from.
My assumption is that if we're at a point where I'm contemplating needing a bow, it's a permanent situation. Being able to teach your kids to make a bow from natural materials could, at that point, mean survival of the family line.
Quote from: willem on February 07, 2009, 02:33:18 PM
QuoteIf cotton clothes get wet, they will leach heat out of your body as they dry. You are better off removing them and hanging around naked.
Yes, I've tried this. Everyone EXCEPT the ones trained in surviving cold / wet conditions thought I was crazy.
And the ones who have basic knowledge of thermodynamics... or just plain everyday cooling systems - what happens when liquids evaporate. :)
The ones who said I was doing it right were trained in survival by the US Coast Guard.
:) Yeah though, crazy prepared often means SEEMING crazy to the less prepared.
Then it works, and they STFU.
Quote from: Cainad on February 07, 2009, 05:28:18 AM
ProTip: Don't have Raynaud's Syndrome.
If civilization degrades to the point where getting hot water and just plain ol' warmth become a serious problem, people like me are gonna lose our fingers come winter.
And me.
The only way I can keep warm hands is by being in a rather warm place these days. Hot water is an only temporary fix.
crossbows can be fired with only one hand,
and can use attachments much easiler like grappling hook, or repeater clip
and i do believe both can be made with seminatural materials
(I would say all natural but having a metal crossbar is a must, imho)
Scavenge a truck's leaf spring and emergency brake cable for the crossbar / string. One method advised scavenging both of a deuce and a half truck, and carving the stock out of the densest hardwood you can get. You'll need a pretty serious release lever setup, and a come - along to cock the thing, but the draw weight should place it almost in the anti - material category.
You probably could weld the crossbar to a peice of structural steel instead of a wood stock, but unless you really knew what you were doing, I could see the welds getting broken easily by the stress.
Rod stock or rebar with a tip ground on for ammo.
BTW: This all annoys the SHIT out of me. I saw an IDEAL leaf spring on the road this morning, but couldn't stop to grab it :argh!:
What good is that going to do your descendants in 150 years?
Presumably, it will keep you fed long enough to figure out how to make glue from tree sap (or whatever the fuck you make glue out of) and flint knives, so you can make a more traditional bow.
Yes but, following the conversation, first it might be good to know HOW to make a traditional bow...
On the subject of shit made from scavanged parts, I have been toying with a design in my head for a hand powered lathe based off a car tire and a bicycle.
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 05:44:11 PM
What good is that going to do your descendants in 150 years?
why should I (or anyone) care?
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 06:44:49 PM
Yes but, following the conversation, first it might be good to know HOW to make a traditional bow...
That's going to take a fuckton of time to master, whether you have any idea what you're doing or not. Even assuming you're a master bowmaker already, you still need to learn to flint knapp, make glue, and all that other fun shit if you want to make a bow without having a big support structure in place.
I'm, starting to understand why the anthropologists peg it at 50 people being needed to keep one person alive, even when you go really primitive, there's a lot of specialization.
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 10, 2009, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 05:44:11 PM
What good is that going to do your descendants in 150 years?
why should I (or anyone) care?
I care because I want to spawn the dynasty that rules the Pacific Northwest with a keen eye and an iron fist. In order for this dynasty to happen, the little shits will need to be able to survive.
Quote from: KC on February 10, 2009, 06:49:40 PM
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 06:44:49 PM
Yes but, following the conversation, first it might be good to know HOW to make a traditional bow...
That's going to take a fuckton of time to master, whether you have any idea what you're doing or not. Even assuming you're a master bowmaker already, you still need to learn to flint knapp, make glue, and all that other fun shit if you want to make a bow without having a big support structure in place.
I'm, starting to understand why the anthropologists peg it at 50 people being needed to keep one person alive, even when you go really primitive, there's a lot of specialization.
Making a bow is relatively easy and does not require glue.
Making a really excellent bow takes a long time, but hell, at least if you have a clue you won't be up shit creek.
I'm just saying, going into it with a clue on some basic primitive skills gives you an edge.
Making a bow that will reliably kill a deer (or more importantly, long pig (hunters)), was done by gluing sinew to the back of the bow and letting it dry.
There are other ways, but they're a lot harder, and usually require laminated, or otherwise specialized, wood.
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 06:51:16 PM
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 10, 2009, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 05:44:11 PM
What good is that going to do your descendants in 150 years?
why should I (or anyone) care?
I care because I want to spawn the dynasty that rules the Pacific Northwest with a keen eye and an iron fist. In order for this dynasty to happen, the little shits will need to be able to survive.
Troof. In the event of societal collapse etc., whoever spawns the most surviving grandkids wins. Or at least that's how I like to view it.
Quote from: KC on February 10, 2009, 07:09:49 PM
Making a bow that will reliably kill a deer (or more importantly, long pig (hunters)), was done by gluing sinew to the back of the bow and letting it dry.
There are other ways, but they're a lot harder, and usually require laminated, or otherwise specialized, wood.
Glue is incredibly easy to make, though.
Quote from: Cainad on February 10, 2009, 07:35:32 PM
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 06:51:16 PM
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 10, 2009, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 05:44:11 PM
What good is that going to do your descendants in 150 years?
why should I (or anyone) care?
I care because I want to spawn the dynasty that rules the Pacific Northwest with a keen eye and an iron fist. In order for this dynasty to happen, the little shits will need to be able to survive.
Troof. In the event of societal collapse etc., whoever spawns the most surviving grandkids wins. Or at least that's how I like to view it.
Yes. It's like a video game!
Lo Teks :lulz:
Here's annuder link to a site by a "fella, what's lived through it already".
"Listening to Katrina"
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html
It's some survivalist type who was living in Nawlins when Katrina hit and shares what worked, what didn't, what he was totally unprepared for, etc.
He stresses, as a general rule for preparedness the need for a 60 second plan (eg, in case of fire), a one hour plan, and a one day plan to bug out.
He also stresses the necessity of data preparedness in ones bug out bag, claiming that this was what fucked the majority of evacuees. stuck in a different city with shit all to prove who you are, what your insurance is, what your job qualifications are, etc., etc....
i found his advise worth mulling over...
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on February 10, 2009, 06:51:16 PM
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 10, 2009, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Green Tea on February 10, 2009, 05:44:11 PM
What good is that going to do your descendants in 150 years?
why should I (or anyone) care?
I care because I want to spawn the dynasty that rules the Pacific Northwest with a keen eye and an iron fist. In order for this dynasty to happen, the little shits will need to be able to survive.
while I appreciate the offer, I have concerns about genetic defects should we turn out to be actually twins separated at birth.
ECH,
called dibs on the PNW years ago
Oh dear, what now!
Warring twin dynasties?
You are forgetting that making the arrows is actually as difficult as making the bow.
Plus I think crossbow bolts are easier to make than traditional arrows anyway.
This may sound weird, but I was watching the History Channel's "Bible Blah Blah" on David and Goliath, and they showed exactly how effective a simple stone sling can be.
Sweet fuck, those things are nasty.
yeah, it's really hard to get good with one though.
Quote from: NARF! on January 28, 2009, 10:42:51 PMcan you cook things in the sun with tinfoil? what the the limitions
Yes, you can (http://solarcooking.org/plans/default.htm). I made a box style cooker and it got hot enough to boil water. I cooked a quart jar full of rice and lentils in an afternoon. Unfortunately, I used crappy materials and half-assed workmanship so it only lasted for one use, but at least I proved the concept to myself.
Quote from: Jason Wabash on January 29, 2009, 04:42:08 AM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 10:42:51 PM
potato batteries, how and how many would you need to have radio output
A simple hand crank radio would be much more efficient. They are getting pretty cheap too. You can find one with AM/FM/Weather Band plus a flashlight for under $50.
I have one of those and mine sucks. The WHIRR-WHIRR-WHIRR of the crank is louder than the radio.
Personally, I'm really only worried about a future where basic goods become more expensive and harder to come by, where the ridiculously high standard of living we currently enjoy is brought more in line with what most of the world lives with every day. I know people who throw food away because they're "full". That level of wealth is unimaginable for most people.
Quote from: Rumckle on February 11, 2009, 08:05:45 AM
You are forgetting that making the arrows is actually as difficult as making the bow.
Plus I think crossbow bolts are easier to make than traditional arrows anyway.
Earlier in this very thread I pointed out that good arrows are harder to make than good bows. :lulz:
I learned how to make both at an early age, and to shoot accurately. I can also use an atlatl and a sling. I can make a serviceable flint knife and an arrow or spearhead if need be. None of the skills I'm suggesting would be good for long-term post-apocalyptic survival are actually difficult to learn, and all could come in quite handy if society broke down to the point where it could take several generations, or even centuries, to recover. Having at least the basic ABILITY to make a serviceable longbow and arrows is just sort of a basic survival concept. I'm sure that crossbows would be more practical, assuming you had access to the right materials, but for long-term group survival it sure would be nice to know how to make everything you need for survival without requiring parts you might not always have access to.
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 11, 2009, 05:56:58 PM
yeah, it's really hard to get good with one though.
'Struth. I practiced daily for over two years and never got all that good.
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 11, 2009, 05:56:58 PM
yeah, it's really hard to get good with one though.
learning to fling a rock is a just matter of a little practice, gaining any kind of useful/hunting accuracy is near impossible, basic rock flinging may be good for attacking crowds or defending livestock from wolves/coyote's,
they are fun to play with...
We bought slingshots in Peru. And practiced with them, constantly. Accurate, they are not. Used in concert however, they are fucking terrifying, for everyone involved.
I've had similar experiences with lashing / sligning / flailing weapons. I become a tremendous force for about 15 seconds. Then part of my brain goes "Wow, I'm good at this.", which invariably causes me to fuck up and injure myself.
Quote from: Cain on February 11, 2009, 09:35:16 PM
We bought slingshots in Peru. And practiced with them, constantly. Accurate, they are not. Used in concert however, they are fucking terrifying, for everyone involved.
Not accurate?
perhaps the fault does not lie in the instrument... :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0
i thought we were talking about slings David and Goliath style? an elastic and y shaped branch/wrist rocket are plenty accurate...
slings are different story it may be possible to hunt hit targets with one, but based on my trials its not easy. getting a rock to fly at incredible speeds is not so hard and is good destructive fun.
Quote from: Fomenter on February 12, 2009, 02:21:19 AM
i thought we were talking about slings David and goliath style? an elastic and y shaped branch/wrist rocket are plenty accurate...
Yeah, I was talking about this kind of sling:
(http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/images/Sling.gif)
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on February 12, 2009, 02:23:42 AM
Quote from: Fomenter on February 12, 2009, 02:21:19 AM
i thought we were talking about slings David and goliath style? an elastic and y shaped branch/wrist rocket are plenty accurate...
Yeah, I was talking about this kind of sling:
(http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/images/Sling.gif)
so was i
ah so.
Cain said he used slingshots in peru.... I thought he veered us in a different direction....
actually....
i just wanted to show that video of the old fart with quarter pinging skillz.
incidentally....did anybody check out that last link i posted? (Cain specifically, with your previous mention of information preparedness)
reference - HYST documents: http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/p/0006.html
Quote from: Fomenter on February 12, 2009, 02:34:21 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on February 12, 2009, 02:23:42 AM
Quote from: Fomenter on February 12, 2009, 02:21:19 AM
i thought we were talking about slings David and goliath style? an elastic and y shaped branch/wrist rocket are plenty accurate...
Yeah, I was talking about this kind of sling:
(http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/images/Sling.gif)
so was i
Me too.
Simple to learn, a lifetime to master.
I've only ever played with a sling a little bit, but it tended to reinforce my ideas about combat (arcs and circularity trump linear strikes most of the time).
Quote from: Telarus on February 12, 2009, 09:06:36 PM
I've only ever played with a sling a little bit, but it tended to reinforce my ideas about combat (arcs and circularity trump linear strikes most of the time).
Unless its a rapier thrust. ;-)
Quote from: Iptuous on February 12, 2009, 03:01:30 AM
ah so.
Cain said he used slingshots in peru.... I thought he veered us in a different direction....
actually....
i just wanted to show that video of the old fart with quarter pinging skillz.
incidentally....did anybody check out that last link i posted? (Cain specifically, with your previous mention of information preparedness)
reference - HYST documents: http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/p/0006.html
Yeah, sorry. I use the terms interchangeably for the traditional sling. Some practice will give you a rough level of accuracy, but as far as I can tell, that's the limit.
Also, that link is indeed excellent.
From when I've messed around with a sling, it's been pretty easy to get the rock to go where you want within about a 90 degree cone (initially, not assuming arching trajectory). Some practice can narrow this down to 45 degrees, and the time investment to get more precision just rises exponentially from there. (Much like practice with any ranged weapon, IMHO.)
While it has simplicity and easily scroungable ammo on its side, the lack of penetrating or killing power limits it to varmint / bird hunting, or scaring wolves / lions off of the livestock. (Granted, avoiding close - up time with an apex predator is likely worth a little practice too.)Not bad things at all, but if I'm going to give away my position in the bush, I'd rather do it with a spear or arrow, and set traps for the small game.
Here's something I've been cooking up: Non - Traditional First Aid.
Some common sense, some garage / job site tricks, and some WEIRD stuff. :D
Duct tape. Better than a band -aid in many situations, being more waterproof. If you have an especially juicy or bleeding wound, some paper towel, TP, or tissue underneath is good as a pad. Use any kind of antibiotic you have on hand because this is NOT STERILE AT ALL. It WILL keep you from bleeding everywhere until you can get real medical supplies / help though. It is also terrific to apply to abrasions. When you can get the abraded area clean and dry before applying, it'll act like a second skin for a good few hours.
Super Glue: It's the base of all "liquid bandage" products. If you have it, mix in some clove oil to act as an antiseptic, and you've just made your own! I've heard of soldiers using it to seal bullet wounds.
Grease: An automotive enthusiast once told the author how you could smear heavy grease into small or medium cuts to stop the bleeding. The author, doing his own auto work and skinning a knuckle, tried this and CAN say it works. The cleaning after, and exposure to carcinogens can't lead him to recommend this, however.
Ash: Ash comes from fire. Fire sterilizes most things. Hence, if you need to staunch a little bleeding, ash can work. It will also promote a HUGE keltoid scar, so don't do this where cosmetic appearances are a concern.
Booze: Need to clean a wound? Wash it with red wine or stronger booze. Again, especially with a heavy red, you may color the resulting scar.
Clove oil: You'll find this sold most often for "aroma therapy". It is also a natural antiseptic. Since oil isn't water soluble, it is harder to clean from a wound, so if you douse a BIG cut or burn in it and you'll have to get it scrubbed out when you reach a hospital. It's also included with some toothache emergency treatment kits to deaden cavity pain (by killing the nerve. Again, be aware what you're doing to yourself.)
Dental floss (waxed only) / monofilament fishing line: CAN be used to suture wounds. Since they're not sold sterile they have a greater chance of infection. The dental floss, not being solid (multiple strands, even with wax), can get grown into healing flesh, or let infection in more easily than the monofilament.
Sea water: Saline, aka salt water, is often used to rinse wounds in medical setting. Guess what the ocean is full of. Be aware of pollution in harbors or near land, but by and large a quick sluice is never a bad thing to wash out a wound with.
Urine: When it leaves the body, urine is sterile. CAN be used to wash off a wound when notihng else is available. Yes, it is gross, and gets even grosser as bacteria and yeasts from the air settle and propagate in it. Needless to say, only use fresh.
i saw a well practised sling user firing rocks into a heavy forest from a field, the accuracy was weak (your cone angles sound about right) but the force the rocks hit things with was impressive, broken branches, explosions of tree bark, rocks cracking against other rocks. i wouldn't use it to hunt either but against a crowd a head hit could definitely kill and broken bones are very possible, there may not be many situations where this is useful, but a mob armed with clubs and knives could be deterred or held off by a couple guys with some sling skill, long enough for others to get away i suppose.
Yeah, like Cain mentioned, a group armed with range weapons is SCARY when even SLIGHTLY coordinated. Works for slings, archers, rocks, or guns, no difference. The "physics of large numbers", as a teacher of mine liked to call it, means your odds drop RAPIDLY towards DEATH if you stay exposed to such repeated attempts to hit you too long.
Psychologically, unless you can return projectiles at similar range / rate of fire, you're pretty much INSTANTLY demoralized.
If you want to get Sun Tzu / Musashi / 5th gen. about it, you're facing an opponent with range advantage, who's main interest is keeping that range. They keep it as long as they have conditions they can fire their projectiles ( requiring ammo, functioning sling, abiltiy to target accurately, and psychological will to do so) You can either disengage them (aka: RUN), or attempt to remove one of the factors they need to fire and close to your own prefered range.
adding a working knowledge of the art of war to any crazy prepared kit is a wise move..
I'm sure Cain, Ratatosk, or That One Guy could flesh it out better, but 5th. Gen. thinking is one of the most valuable things you can have for any situation, especially in the "CRAZY PREPARED" vein (as I put in the first blog entry on the topic too). As an idea, or mindset, it has no weight, takes up no space in a pack or pocket, and is proof against most forms of spoilage or wear. It can also be a difficult thing to instill perfectly or use on command, and takes up our only truly irreplaceable resource, time, to learn.
link please i missed this blog some how..
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/blog/
Anything tagged "CRAZY PREPARED" :)
thanks good stuff :D
WHY should you be CRAZY PREPARED?
It could save your ass, or someone else's. Like this dude did.
http://toolmonger.com/2009/02/17/why-you-should-carry-a-pocket-knife/
Granted, not all of us are going to be saving car wash attendants every day. Still, this is a practical article on why people carrying tools is a good thing. This guy was carrying a knife, not becasue he was a punk waiting to jack up an old lady, or some gear freak who goes everywhere in BDU's and cop boots with thousand dollar custom tactical folding knives and flashlight that double as flesh chisels, but because it was a useful tool.
I'm going to dig around to make sure he wasn't nipped later for any "Concealed Weapon" bullshit.
I'm not going to go overboard and slap him with the Government approved 9/11 "Hero" definition, he doesn't deserve that. He's a practical person with the stones to jump in and help.
CRAZY PREPARED PRO-TIP: When speaking with law enforcement, it ain't a 'knife'. It's a 'sharp' or better yet, a 'sharp tool'.
Quote from: Telarus on February 20, 2009, 03:51:16 PM
CRAZY PREPARED PRO-TIP: When speaking with law enforcement, it ain't a 'knife'. It's a 'sharp' or better yet, a 'sharp tool'.
So as to remove any implication of it being weaponry?
No, because the police officers have a difficult time spelling with silent letters when writing up your citation.
:lulz:
Quote from: Richter on February 20, 2009, 01:58:57 PM
I'm not going to go overboard and slap him with the Government approved 9/11 "Hero" definition, he doesn't deserve that. He's a practical person with the stones to jump in and help.
Isn't that was a hero is?
Quote from: Richter on February 16, 2009, 05:19:10 PM
Ash: Ash comes from fire. Fire sterilizes most things. Hence, if you need to staunch a little bleeding, ash can work. It will also promote a HUGE keltoid scar, so don't do this where cosmetic appearances are a concern.
Your logic is flawed, its not the relation to fire that makes ash sterilizing.
It's the dehydrating.
Also, ash + water makes lye, that'll kill any bacteria.
One I've heard of and am trying to confirm. Cayenne (sp?) powder can be used as a coagulant and (after the initial pain) topical pain killer.
Quote from: Regret on February 20, 2009, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 16, 2009, 05:19:10 PM
Ash: Ash comes from fire. Fire sterilizes most things. Hence, if you need to staunch a little bleeding, ash can work. It will also promote a HUGE keltoid scar, so don't do this where cosmetic appearances are a concern.
Your logic is flawed, its not the relation to fire that makes ash sterilizing.
It's the dehydrating.
Also, ash + water makes lye, that'll kill any bacteria.
My logic was only that the ash would be MORE clean than other surrounding muck. Heat kills bacteria last I checked.
Good point about the lye thou!
Knots and ropework:
I ALWAYS take this for granted because I grew up doing it, tying, securing, or rigging things, but occasionally I meet folks who haven't. Apparently procuring a coil of rope, cord or twine and affixing item A to point B is NOT a topic covered as well as it should be.
From learning it myself, I quickly figured out that few people who do this with regularity are used to teaching it.
Knots are fairly simple themselves, when someone can show you in person how they should look, should be used, and should be tied. I've always had trouble learning from books or videos (I NEED TO SEE THAT FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE FFS!)
Suggested knots: Bowline (static loop), Slip knot (tightening loop, like a noose), Figure 8 / stopper knot (keeps a knot from pulling through an eyelet or another knot. Also used in climbing), Square Knot (tie 2 ropes together), Half hitch (used SEVERAL at once when tying a rope off to a fixed point.), Clove hitch (a good quick way to get a rope secure on said fixed point.)
Once you've learned them, using them gets almost as tricky. You can't just wave a bowline and a few half hitches at a couch and expect it to stay on top of your car out of FEAR. You actually need to restrain the fucker.
Learning usually involves some crusty old salt or gruff trucker looking at your attempt, grumbling it's not right, and then doing it over themselves. This isn't traditional teaching, but you DO over several years get the idea, almost an aesthtic sense for how to use those knots.
I'm not sure IF I'm up to writing a book on it myself, but here are a few basic idea I've gotten out of it all.
Tie it down TIGHT. Less movement = Less possibility for disaster. This is a bit different in the odd world of securing boats, but generally secure is GOOD. (Nylon web straps with built in rachets can help a great deal with this, but involve little knot work. The purist in me calls them cheating, but unless it's a classic sailing ship or Shibari, I'll use whatever works.)
Where will your load slide to? Lash it so it DOESN'T go that way. If your item to be secured is a large IKEA type box, then tying around corners / on diagonals works well. A rope crossing over the box on a diagonal will keep it from sliding 2 ways at once. Cross over it in differnt ways, multiple times to cover all potential directions it COULD slide in.
Where will your ropes slide to? A rope tied to a smooth cross bar, or roof rack pole can still slip along it, lossening the whole works. Loop the rope around corners or junctions of 2+ structural members to help prevent this.
Only tie to HARDPOINTS. Spoiler / door handle / antenna / muffler / ornaments = BAD BAD things to tie off to. Roof racks / U bolts on a car's frame / trailer hitches / Inside latches for trunks or doors (ONLY in a pinch) = Good, or at least better.
Quote from: KC on February 20, 2009, 11:04:43 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 20, 2009, 01:58:57 PM
I'm not going to go overboard and slap him with the Government approved 9/11 "Hero" definition, he doesn't deserve that. He's a practical person with the stones to jump in and help.
Isn't that what an hero is?
fixed for statistical probability.
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 24, 2009, 06:06:36 AM
Quote from: KC on February 20, 2009, 11:04:43 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 20, 2009, 01:58:57 PM
I'm not going to go overboard and slap him with the Government approved 9/11 "Hero" definition, he doesn't deserve that. He's a practical person with the stones to jump in and help.
Isn't that what an hero is?
fixed for statistical probability.
Point.
Quote from: KC on February 24, 2009, 09:34:35 AM
Quote from: Dirtytime on February 24, 2009, 06:06:36 AM
Quote from: KC on February 20, 2009, 11:04:43 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 20, 2009, 01:58:57 PM
I'm not going to go overboard and slap him with the Government approved 9/11 "Hero" definition, he doesn't deserve that. He's a practical person with the stones to jump in and help.
Isn't that what an hero is?
fixed for statistical probability.
Point.
Hah!
I'd rather die from my own stupidity than someone else's.
Not like it will make much difference to me which it ends up being though.
Quote from: Richter on February 21, 2009, 05:02:25 AM
Quote from: Regret on February 20, 2009, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 16, 2009, 05:19:10 PM
Ash: Ash comes from fire. Fire sterilizes most things. Hence, if you need to staunch a little bleeding, ash can work. It will also promote a HUGE keltoid scar, so don't do this where cosmetic appearances are a concern.
Your logic is flawed, its not the relation to fire that makes ash sterilizing.
It's the dehydrating.
Also, ash + water makes lye, that'll kill any bacteria.
My logic was only that the ash would be MORE clean than other surrounding muck. Heat kills bacteria last I checked.
Good point about the lye thou!
flawed logic remark retracted, applied to self for missing this obvious other way of understanding it.
eta: cool info on knots.
http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/51825116/where+there+is+no+doctor?tab=summary
The torrent of Where There Is No Doctor linked earlier is corrupted or something, so here's a 2007 version of the book. Not done downloading it yet, hopefully it can be opened.
Ash + water = lye
Recipe! http://www.countryfarm-lifestyles.com/make-lye.html
also has linkies to making soap with your lye :D
Good link!
I'm thinking about getting a big, juicy binder for printing stuff like that out and storing it in.
I've got a few compilations on that sort of thing based on interviews with Appalachian mountain folk, useful to know how to do.
ATTN: anyone who lives where it snows and owns a car:
GET A SHOVEL
GET ONE OF THESE : hxxp://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/products_details.asp?ST=2&SKU=em15555g
SOLD OUT?
THAT'S BECUASE THEY WORK.
Hunt around and you can find more. I've had one for years. Not ideal, but to quickly knock a snow drift over, clear your wheels, and get out, they do the job.
i carried one of those in my car then my jeep for years they do work in a pinch, but i replaced it with a real shovel the first time i got my jeep seriously stuck. i don't know if the german version is better but the American army surplus version was a bit weak still works though.
Quote from: fomenter on March 02, 2009, 05:20:02 PM
i carried one of those in my car then my jeep for years they do work in a pinch, but i replaced it with a real shovel the first time i got my jeep seriously stuck. i don't know if the german version is better but the American army surplus version was a bit weak still works though.
The USA version? One of the trifolds? Too many moving parts for a tools you use REALLY hard, IMHO.
They're also shorter and have a funny triangular handle, making a good swing tricky.
I'm pretty certain the one I own / linked to is German. They're not exactly marked either way. Even so, I've yet to see one that isn't solid;vintage or reproduction nonwithstanding. (When buying, I discreetly stomp them to make sure they're not pot metal.)
I like that you can fold them like a hoe, mow down drifts or the crap plows leave in front of your car holding them at the base of the handle, and then choke up to scrape / dig.
Like you, I still carry a full sized shovel too, thou :)
I have one of those wonderful trenching tools too. It's gotten me out of several snowbanks before the cops could pass by and give me a ticket/take me to jail. Not sure what the country of origin is but it's got a straight wooden handle and a steel head with a pivot/lockscrew assembly that allows it to be folded straight out (like a normal shovel) or half-out (like a hoe) or folded against the handle for storage.
I've also sharpened the head to a razor edge which not only makes an easy task out of breaking through ice or hard-crusted snow, but has gotten me out of a few ass-kickings. Seems not even 5 drunken hicks want to meet the business end of a shovel.
ETA: http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/products_details.asp?SKU=BG164&ST=2&U.S.%20BiFold%20Shovel%20w/Cover%20WW2%20Era
i recommend the stomp on it / mess around with the mechanism idea, the one i had was wobbly after one use and the locking ring never worked quite right, it did still function but after a 4 to 5 hour dig out when i buried the jeep up to the body in heavy clay i got pissed at the piece of crap and tossed it, i have a short handled garden shovel now, i would buy a folding shovel for the car but not without giving them a careful look over to find one that is built well. they are not all built equal.
Dirtytime / ECH's version is the same idea. The one I have / have gifted to many folks has a wood handle and a spring loaded pin instead of a screw locking ring. (Neither is really going to be superior though, any pivot on a tool is suspect.)
Quote from: Dirtytime on March 02, 2009, 06:05:24 PM
I've also sharpened the head to a razor edge which not only makes an easy task out of breaking through ice or hard-crusted snow, but has gotten me out of a few ass-kickings. Seems not even 5 drunken hicks want to meet the business end of a shovel.
Glad I'm not the only one who does that.
Protip: apply heavy grease or parafin wax to the head to prevent rust and help snow slide off more easily
10% Sulphur + 15% Charcoal + 75% Saltpetre
Pulverize, mix, make wet, dry and pulverize again and you have gunpowder.
Saltpetre:
http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/lecontesalt/leconte.html
check out the swiss method.
Sulphur:
haven't found a way of getting sulphur without access to springs, volcanoes, salt deserts, natural gas, oil or man made stockpiles.
It's function is ignition facilitator, maybe someone can come up with an alternative?
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on February 11, 2009, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Jason Wabash on January 29, 2009, 04:42:08 AM
Quote from: YattoDobbs on January 28, 2009, 10:42:51 PM
potato batteries, how and how many would you need to have radio output
A simple hand crank radio would be much more efficient. They are getting pretty cheap too. You can find one with AM/FM/Weather Band plus a flashlight for under $50.
I have one of those and mine sucks. The WHIRR-WHIRR-WHIRR of the crank is louder than the radio.
or even camel dung batteries to recharge your celphone.
could be useful for items taht need recharge but arent damaged.
a simple gameboy just may save your sanity in hard times
*edit* idea was to be able to make something so you can turn your alarm clock into a radio
instead of having to buy something taht will only get used on camping trips and the end of the world.
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Lye ;)
QuoteLye, also known as NaOH, sodium hydroxide, or caustic soda, is used in making soap, and also in biodiesel fuel production.
fuel could be a useful thing to know how to make
Quote from: Regret on March 05, 2009, 03:25:53 PM
10% Sulphur + 15% Charcoal + 75% Saltpetre
Pulverize, mix, make wet, dry and pulverize again and you have gunpowder.
Saltpetre:
http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/lecontesalt/leconte.html
check out the swiss method.
Sulphur:
haven't found a way of getting sulphur without access to springs, volcanoes, salt deserts, natural gas, oil or man made stockpiles.
It's function is ignition facilitator, maybe someone can come up with an alternative?
match-heads contain sulfur.
nearly useless trivia: In a pinch, you can make an explosive out of matches, fruit loops, and batshit.
matches = sulphur rich
fruit loops = sugar (good replacement for carbon)
batshit = (mostly) saltpetre
should work.
I've seen sugar cereal and saltpeter rocket fuel... same principle I suppose.
Quote from: Regret on March 05, 2009, 03:25:53 PM
10% Sulphur + 15% Charcoal + 75% Saltpetre
Pulverize, mix, make wet, dry and pulverize again and you have gunpowder.
Saltpetre:
http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/lecontesalt/leconte.html
check out the swiss method.
Sulphur:
haven't found a way of getting sulphur without access to springs, volcanoes, salt deserts, natural gas, oil or man made stockpiles.
It's function is ignition facilitator, maybe someone can come up with an alternative?
I've been scouring my hard drive for that document. It should be noted it nets impure shit. Still haven't seen anything good on further refining it.
Also: salt deserts huh... how do i get sulpher out of the one I live next to (assuming I can keep the desert from swallowing me whole). Or from oil for that matter, my ditch point when things collapse is in the middle of an oil field.
Cant remember exactly. But one of the byproducts of oil and natural gas production is pure sulphur. And nobody wants it so they stockpile it. so if you live near an oilfield then there should be massive sulphur stockpiles nearby.
For salt deserts remember that sulphur is yellow. look for yellow salt.
My first idea was to attempt extraction / distillation from marshland / swamp soil / peat.
From what I've read so far, it's rare enough in non - volcanic / non post - volcanic areas as to be a BITCH to extract from smaller more widely occurring concentrations.
If we're talking post apocalyptic gunpowder production to make muskets to shoot zombie hordes, I'd say raid a refinery, they seem to stockpile.
If we're talking "DIY gunpowder", current era, I'd tell you to not be a fool. Get some contacts with a local rod + gun, or reenactment group into muskets. They'll walk you through / refer you how to legally buy the stuff. (Takes MUCH less licensing than regular firearms, and minimal, if any permits for black powder.)
In the 16-1800's, powder mills were constructed along rivers, with the wall facing the water being the one designed to blow out in case of an explosion. I wouldn't want to do this in my house.
Quote from: Richter on March 08, 2009, 02:21:13 PM
muskets to shoot zombie hordes
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol:
:lol:
:lol:
:lol:
Quote from: Regret on March 08, 2009, 01:36:00 AM
Cant remember exactly. But one of the byproducts of oil and natural gas production is pure sulphur. And nobody wants it so they stockpile it. so if you live near an oilfield then there should be massive sulphur stockpiles nearby.
For salt deserts remember that sulphur is yellow. look for yellow salt.
My research says that the sulfur comes out at an oil refinery, so being in an oil field doesn't really work unless I'm able to refine it. Sulfur salt might be more useful, at least for small amounts, (a whole army might take a proper mining operation though).
RIGHTO: I wanted to have a little fun with the Crazy Prepared Musing:
Anti – furry tactics.
Witness:
Quote from: Nigel on March 10, 2009, 07:39:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 10, 2009, 04:31:25 AM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on March 10, 2009, 04:28:54 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 10, 2009, 04:12:12 AM
I hung out with perverts and conspiracy theorists all weekend. :)
Did they have X-Day early this year? :D
No, I just found another pocket of weirdness in Tucson.
Leather freaks, armed furries (No shit, they were armed to the teeth. No fun for Roger :( ), trannies, and then a batch of people that actually woke the fuck up from the left/right paradigm and don't know what the fuck to do with themselves. So I helped a couple of them.
:lulz: Furries with guns.. the New Apocalypse!
Yes, I'm playing on the "Furry Haet" bandwagon, but this shit is entertainment too.
Know your enemy: Not every furry is a threat, or even a problem outside of deviation from social norm. You'll encounter everything from "catgirls", teenagers with a set of ears and an affinity for wapanese speech, or rubbing against you. (Beware age / delicious trappage [it may have a package] / the UNCLEAN), to full on fur suited yiff-freaks. Only the later may pose a threat, and we have only this single report of the gun toting variety. Dissection has shown standard human anatomy, the synthetic hair coating and dangerous tendencies being a result of paraphilia rather than tactical advantage. These coatings range from light to heavy, afford little ballistic protection, and retain heat to varying degrees. (Most are heavily customized, there is no "standard issue" fursuit.) Full – head enclosures mimicking a stylized wild animal are also present. (The author suspects these may need to be removed prior to discharging firearms.) Aside from their projectile weaponry, these suits make short range engagement difficult. Pack behavior may be present, and will pose the greatest threat, as it brings the numbers needed to affect a "furpile", maneuver. (NEVER leave a man behind for the furries!)
The fursuit that the dangerous variety of furry will wear is as much their trademark as it is their Achilles heal. Consider it similar to a medieval knight in full plate metal armor. The suit will inherently hinder motion, blunt the senses, and make respiration and heat dissipation much more difficult than usual. The exact degree of armoring adopted has yet to be accurately gauged, but anti – ballistic vests could EASILY be concealed. Assume every furry is a hard target. This additional armor will further complicate the conditions already highlighted.
Again drawing a parallel to medieval anti - armor techniques, mobility, blunt force, or piercing to gaps in their armor are most effective. Even if a direct kill is impossible, harrying any fursuited target long enough will result in exhaustion, heatstroke, and dehydration. Forcing a prolonged engagement to exploit these weaknesses puts your furred foe in a position where retreat and rest becomes their best case scenario.
http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-apocalypse-never/
The War Nerd talks Apocalypse. Explains exactly why I say to get the hell out of big cities.
Quote from: Requia on March 11, 2009, 03:50:09 AM
http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-apocalypse-never/
The War Nerd talks Apocalypse. Explains exactly why I say to get the hell out of big cities.
Why?
It sounds more like he saying stick with a massive, well-organized horde rather than a small, well-armed gang, even if you're well located in terms of water supply.
You're thinking no one will find your well or river?
That was a great article! And so very true.
I actually think that the ideal place to be in the event of the collapse of civilization would be a small town fairly remote from any other towns. There'd be the strength of having a community and access to farmland and wilderness, combined with relative isolation from marauders.
I suspect that the most likely scenario in cities is that people will simply band together based on geography, and try as hard as they can to help each other not die. In desert cities, everyone will die anyway. A lot of cold-climate cities will probably be burned to the ground in winter when a bunch of idiots try burning things for warmth and set fire to their buildings.
if civilization would ever collapse all the fundies would be killing gays, scientists and wierdos by day two,
and sacrificing virgins to their "God" by day three
...and eating the leftovers on day 4.
Quote from: Nigel on March 12, 2009, 04:12:44 PM
That was a great article! And so very true.
I actually think that the ideal place to be in the event of the collapse of civilization would be a small town fairly remote from any other towns. There'd be the strength of having a community and access to farmland and wilderness, combined with relative isolation from marauders.
I suspect that the most likely scenario in cities is that people will simply band together based on geography, and try as hard as they can to help each other not die. In desert cities, everyone will die anyway. A lot of cold-climate cities will probably be burned to the ground in winter when a bunch of idiots try burning things for warmth and set fire to their buildings.
Agreed. Any city, once running water dies off, will be a desert in short order anyways.
Quote from: Richter on March 12, 2009, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 12, 2009, 04:12:44 PM
That was a great article! And so very true.
I actually think that the ideal place to be in the event of the collapse of civilization would be a small town fairly remote from any other towns. There'd be the strength of having a community and access to farmland and wilderness, combined with relative isolation from marauders.
I suspect that the most likely scenario in cities is that people will simply band together based on geography, and try as hard as they can to help each other not die. In desert cities, everyone will die anyway. A lot of cold-climate cities will probably be burned to the ground in winter when a bunch of idiots try burning things for warmth and set fire to their buildings.
Agreed. Any city, once running water dies off, will be a desert in short order anyways.
No, I think that there are enough people in most cities aware that there are underground creeks that what would happen is that all the manhole covers would be pulled up until they were found, and then eventually there would be an outbreak of cholera.
At least around here, most cities have history dating back to the industrial revolution when things were less than "Green" in the chemical disposal sense. The groundwater is beyond bad. One lake in my hometown has a solid layer of creosote just under the mud at the bottom. Every stream is loaded with nasty stuff. Dig a hole next to the right building, and the groundwater will fill in neon green.
Likely different in your neck of the woods though, less industrial prehistory. Boiling / sterilizing groundwater is a good practice, regardless.
Rainwater collection can also work out OK.
Quote from: Richter on March 12, 2009, 06:05:07 PM
At least around here, most cities have history dating back to the industrial revolution when things were less than "Green" in the chemical disposal sense. The groundwater is beyond bad. One lake in my hometown has a solid layer of creosote just under the mud at the bottom. Every stream is loaded with nasty stuff. Dig a hole next to the right building, and the groundwater will fill in neon green.
Likely different in your neck of the woods though, less industrial prehistory. Boiling / sterilizing groundwater is a good practice, regardless.
Rainwater collection can also work out OK.
All of you East Coast people will mutate into giant freaks.
Have you ever seen a picture of ECH?
It's already happened.
Quote from: Automaton on March 12, 2009, 09:50:40 AM
Quote from: Requia on March 11, 2009, 03:50:09 AM
http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-apocalypse-never/
The War Nerd talks Apocalypse. Explains exactly why I say to get the hell out of big cities.
Why?
It sounds more like he saying stick with a massive, well-organized horde rather than a small, well-armed gang, even if you're well located in terms of water supply.
You're thinking no one will find your well or river?
No, I'm thinking a few thousand people already live where the reservoir I'd hit are. And the people there are well armed enough to defend against non military raids. Also lots of farms, which means food if I can find a skill to barter with.
Figuring out how to keep them from killing *me* might be a bit trickier though.
Also, food seems a bigger deal than water in the cities to me, yeah you'll die faster without food, but water distribution would take longer to collapse, food might stop coming tomorrow, or might come in half the numbers needed to keep everyone alive.
Quote from: LMNO on March 12, 2009, 06:50:58 PM
Have you ever seen a picture of ECH?
It's already happened.
:eek:
I just built one of these today.
http://www.bioenergylists.org/stovesdoc/midge/THE_COMPLETE_MIDGE.pdf
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/Jerry_Frankster/MIDGE1.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/Jerry_Frankster/MIDGE2.jpg)
I used cans slightly different from, but close enough to the ones in the PDF.
The biggest difference was the 25 oz Hormel chili can I used as the burner. It burned for about 30 minutes and toasted the fuck out of some marshmallows.
Quote from: Requia on March 13, 2009, 03:24:23 AM
Quote from: Automaton on March 12, 2009, 09:50:40 AM
Quote from: Requia on March 11, 2009, 03:50:09 AM
http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-apocalypse-never/
The War Nerd talks Apocalypse. Explains exactly why I say to get the hell out of big cities.
Why?
It sounds more like he saying stick with a massive, well-organized horde rather than a small, well-armed gang, even if you're well located in terms of water supply.
You're thinking no one will find your well or river?
No, I'm thinking a few thousand people already live where the reservoir I'd hit are. And the people there are well armed enough to defend against non military raids. Also lots of farms, which means food if I can find a skill to barter with.
Figuring out how to keep them from killing *me* might be a bit trickier though.
Also, food seems a bigger deal than water in the cities to me, yeah you'll die faster without food, but water distribution would take longer to collapse, food might stop coming tomorrow, or might come in half the numbers needed to keep everyone alive.
It's a lot easier to stockpile food than water, but long-term food could become a huge problem.
Remember that if there is no electricity, in most cities that means no pumps to run the water delivery system. Also keep in mind that a major earthquake will almost certainly damage the water mains so even if your water supply is 100% gravity-fed, it still may not be functional.
Earthquake is a real issue, but there would be relief in that event* (also, enough might still be working that running off alternate sources would be feasible for a least a little while). We actually are gravity fed though (all the water is in the mountains).
My concern is what happens to us if the dollar collapses entirely and we can't afford to keep importing oil. Or something seriously fucks with the rail networks (earthquake again, or the railways quietly going bankrupt while the government keeps bailing out the auto makers).
Also, your food stockpiles don't protect you against riots by starving fuckers looking to steal anything edible.
*Probably, one of my big fears is that the big one is *finally* going to hit, and we'll be at the bottom of a depression, with no resources to mount recovery operations.
*FUCK* It just occurred to me that i don't know if any of the dams in the area are earthquake rated... :horrormirth:
Quote from: Requia on March 13, 2009, 05:57:18 AM
*FUCK* It just occurred to me that i don't know if any of the dams in the area are earthquake rated... :horrormirth:
I'll save you some time... no. They're not. You're in the US, right? Oh god. http://www.damsafetycoalition.org/about/101.html
*starts plotting how to turn this thread into an intermittens issue*
The dams that would empty directly on top of me appear to be solid.
The ones that would empty into Happy Valley appear not to be. :lulz:
Something to keep in mind is that just because the dams are inspected and regulated doesn't actually mean there's funding for repairs...
No, we have money for dam repair. There are 41 states that don't though. :horrormirth:
Quote from: Requia on March 14, 2009, 02:38:38 AM
No, we have money for dam repair. There are 41 states that don't though. :horrormirth:
:lulz: Yeah, you guys are LUCKY. We have some ungodly number of dams that not only are there no funds to repair, but there are no funds to demolish either.
Oh, and like 4000 bridges that are "unsafe".
Quote from: Requia on March 13, 2009, 03:24:23 AM
Quote from: Automaton on March 12, 2009, 09:50:40 AM
Quote from: Requia on March 11, 2009, 03:50:09 AM
http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-apocalypse-never/
The War Nerd talks Apocalypse. Explains exactly why I say to get the hell out of big cities.
Why?
It sounds more like he saying stick with a massive, well-organized horde rather than a small, well-armed gang, even if you're well located in terms of water supply.
You're thinking no one will find your well or river?
No, I'm thinking a few thousand people already live where the reservoir I'd hit are. And the people there are well armed enough to defend against non military raids. Also lots of farms, which means food if I can find a skill to barter with.
Figuring out how to keep them from killing *me* might be a bit trickier though.
Also, food seems a bigger deal than water in the cities to me, yeah you'll die faster without food, but water distribution would take longer to collapse, food might stop coming tomorrow, or might come in half the numbers needed to keep everyone alive.
I guess I'm still not seeing how the war nerd's article lines up with what you're saying.
In fact, it seems quite contrary to what you're saying.
What parts of the article do you feel support your strategy?
The parts about millions of south Californians dieing at once, and the fundies taking over the survivors?
PROTIP: Gary Brecher is a pretty decent armchair military analyst and tactician.
he has, however, proven consistently that he knows absolutely fuck-all about anything else and is, in fact, kind of an idiot.
that's why he's a greasy fat dude who lives in Fresno, CA.
CUBICLE SURVIVAL: I'm brainstorming a bit for a veriwirrung entry on this. I know there are many of my fellow Cubaeunauts here, anyone have anything they'd like to pitch in? Credit / citations, of course, will be added if desired.
Here's what I go so far:
- Do the job fool - keep the money coming in and the life rolling.
- Coffee - Keep awake / alert / dangerous
- Goals - Learn new stuff, expand your knowledge, don't stay parked in cubeland
- Slack - Preservation of sanity, wit, and audacity.
I can see this taking a tangent towards Bureaucracy Jacking, but that should be a whole seperate entry, if not category.
Be smarter than your job. Find efficient and accurate ways of getting it done, in half the time. Then spend the rest of the time doing shit YOU want to do.
that would work much better if being more efficient didn't mean a bigger workload for me.
Perhaps it's the nature of your job, but my point was that you don't tell your boss you can do the work in half the time, you just do it, and then spend the rest of the time doing something you want to do, on their dime.
ALT + TAB
Best power key EVAR.
I think i am starting to develop carpal tunnel from keeping my hand in the ALT-TAB position continuously everyday.
I wish there was an ALT-TAB to change browsing tabs within Firefox....
Ctrl+(1-8) pop to the first 8 tabs. Ctrl+9 hops to the last one.
:D
yer a Hoopy Frood, man.
Quote from: Telarus on April 08, 2009, 09:04:24 PM
Ctrl+(1-8) pop to the first 8 tabs. Ctrl+9 hops to the last one.
And if I have hundreds of tabs open? What then?
You probably deserve to be fired.
Then you should open less porn at one time.
Half of them are actually for work. Though the new job is turning out far less cluttered (more searching the documentation, less searching Google).
Also, its front line calls, and there's a limited amount of time I'm allowed to 'take notes'. So i finish one call, and then I have another one.
I know that game.
The more complicated and advanced situations you can manuever yourself into, the more you can make a case for: "I can do this QUICK or RIGHT. Pick one.", with management.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 08, 2009, 05:49:40 PM
I think i am starting to develop carpal tunnel from keeping my hand in the ALT-TAB position continuously everyday.
I wish there was an ALT-TAB to change browsing tabs within Firefox....
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8879 (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8879) <3
oh, hells yeah.
fox tab rocks tabs!
Back on topic,
http://www.outdoorcook.com/article1045.php
Cooking with solar power, for cheap (or free, if things are bad enough).
This is apparently powerful enough to boil water with.
Apparently this works better if you put a second box, painted black, inside the first
pic http://www.greenbiz.com/images/090409-kyoto-box-full.jpg
Shit, thanks. I've actually been looking for instructions for that for the past two days.
I've heard that those can work even in areas where the sun is dubious and patchy, but I don't know anyone who's tried it.
Useful for the desert, when there's little available for burning
less useful here, where there is a lot of wood but little sun. Hey, that reminds me that I was going to get a tripod and a bigger Dutch Oven before the apocalypse hits.
Supposedly it worked in Seattle.
Quote from: Requia on April 11, 2009, 06:06:22 AM
Supposedly it worked in Seattle.
Seattle has less random overcast but heavier rainfall.
Portland has a lot of "Hey it's sunny! Oh wait. Oh yay it's sunny again... ohhh, no, never mind. Sun! oh now it's drizzling. The sun came out wanna go hi... oh forget it, let's get beer."
Quote from: Telarus on April 08, 2009, 09:04:24 PM
Ctrl+(1-8) pop to the first 8 tabs. Ctrl+9 hops to the last one.
or control-tab
If you happen to have a bit of land to grow food on nitrogen depletion will most likely be a problem AKA 'Why the fuck do my potatoes shrink every year?'
Tossing some shit or dead animal parts (even bone works) on the soil will work but longpigs get annoyed when you slaughter one each year. One alternative solution is socalled green manure: plants that make their own nitrogen with a little help from their symbiotic fungi and bacteria. This replenishes the soil's nitrogen content and keeps weeds from taking up all the already present nutrients.
http://www.allotment.org.uk/fertilizer/green-manures.php
TL:DR version: after harvesting your potatoes(or whatever) plant clover and beans. before planting potatoes cut up clover and beans, let it rot for a couple of days and bury it in your soil.
Isn't crop rotation agriculture 101?
I mean even I fucking know that. Of course, modern farms ditched that in favor of pumping ammonia (ammonium? i can never remember which is which) into the ground.
Quote from: Requia on April 11, 2009, 02:13:35 PM
Isn't crop rotation agriculture 101?
I mean even I fucking know that. Of course, modern farms ditched that in favor of pumping ammonia (ammonium? i can never remember which is which) into the ground.
Uh... dude?
You basically just assumed that at least a majority of the population knows something that has nothing to do with TV or popular culture. That's like saying, "Can't more than half of Americans name all the planets of our solar system in order of distance from the sun? I mean, even I know that."
I suppose it's a bit late to offer mission statement clarification but: CRAZY PREPARED takes a few situations into account.
1. Shit is bad / collapsed. Whatever IT is, you can't buy IT. You have to make, improvise, work around, or do without IT.
2. IT is not cheap, so figuring out one of the above methods is worth the while.
3. You need IT NOW. Convoluted thought it may seem one of the above will be efficient enough to get things done / save yo ass.
If you don't have an industrial or sewage separation complex providing the cheap surplus ammonia, though, rotating to a nitrogen fixing crop, like alfalfa, for a few seasons, is GOOD.
Edit:
Quote from: Cainad on April 11, 2009, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: Requia on April 11, 2009, 02:13:35 PM
Isn't crop rotation agriculture 101?
I mean even I fucking know that. Of course, modern farms ditched that in favor of pumping ammonia (ammonium? i can never remember which is which) into the ground.
Uh... dude?
You basically just assumed that at least a majority of the population knows something that has nothing to do with TV or popular culture. That's like saying, "Can't more than half of Americans name all the planets of our solar system in order of distance from the sun? I mean, even I know that."
This is a perfect example of a situation where taking 5 min. to read a thread gives you valuable, though painfully specific, info that has the potential to be VERY useful.
Quote from: Cainad on April 11, 2009, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: Requia on April 11, 2009, 02:13:35 PM
Isn't crop rotation agriculture 101?
I mean even I fucking know that. Of course, modern farms ditched that in favor of pumping ammonia (ammonium? i can never remember which is which) into the ground.
Uh... dude?
You basically just assumed that at least a majority of the population knows something that has nothing to do with TV or popular culture. That's like saying, "Can't more than half of Americans name all the planets of our solar system in order of distance from the sun? I mean, even I know that."
They can't? Not even half?
Fuck, I'm horribly under estimating stupidity again aren't I?
Quote from: Requia on April 12, 2009, 07:17:26 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 11, 2009, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: Requia on April 11, 2009, 02:13:35 PM
Isn't crop rotation agriculture 101?
I mean even I fucking know that. Of course, modern farms ditched that in favor of pumping ammonia (ammonium? i can never remember which is which) into the ground.
Uh... dude?
You basically just assumed that at least a majority of the population knows something that has nothing to do with TV or popular culture. That's like saying, "Can't more than half of Americans name all the planets of our solar system in order of distance from the sun? I mean, even I know that."
They can't? Not even half?
Fuck, I'm horribly under estimating stupidity again aren't I?
Remember those hilarious (as in :horrormirth: ) polls about how many Americans could locate Iraq on a map? Yeah.
Actually, I dunno if I could find Iraq either. Depends on the map I guess (I know it borders Turkey, but I don't know where Turkey is either).
Quote from: Requia on April 12, 2009, 07:33:42 AM
Actually, I dunno if I could find Iraq either. Depends on the map I guess (I know it borders Turkey, but I don't know where Turkey is either).
I know where Turkey is! It's the Garden of Eden:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe
Oh, its next to Syria too... that I can find.
Another fun question to ask americans on the street is 'Can you name a country starting with a U?'
Uganda? :p
Playing with Goole Maps / Google Earth at work or home can help general geography knowledge. If you're geology inclined, you can take screenshots (map / satellite / topography) of a given feature and play a game we called "Caldera, Crater, or Lake?"
edited to prevent thread derailment.
When watering plants try to avoid getting water on top of the leaves, most plants dont really like getting lenses on their leaves.
:clint:
Quote from: Regret on April 15, 2009, 03:59:48 PM
edited to prevent thread derailment.
When watering plants try to avoid getting water on top of the leaves, most plants dont really like getting lenses on their leaves.
this problem can be avoided, of course, by watering at night.
Or in the morning so that the water has a chance to evaporate before it encourages the growth of mold and mildews.
i suppose there must be another reason for why having water drops on your leaves is bad, because even if the drops are spherical, the focal point lies well below the leaf surface.
at least that's what i read in a really old "popular math magazine" (yeah) of my dad's.
Water on the leaves is bad because it provides a nice moist environment for mold, mildew, and plant disease to grow. Normally the moisture that gets on your plants leaves evaporates on its own, but if you live in a humid climate, you're better off aiming at the base of the plant, or watering in the morning.
People tan/burn faster when they are wet.
Sounds like a similar process.
I have found some sites talk about the salt content burning the leaves.
I am not sure what happens when and i am certain it is very dependent on the specifics of the situation.
This sounds like a perfect situation in wich to TFY,S.
even if the focal point is beyond the surface of the leaf, the light will be more concentrated than would be otherwise. doesn't necessarily prove anything, just saying is all....
Sounds right to me. Going a bit farther, water, over the surface of skin, leaves or anything, is making a small increase to the overall surface area exposed to the sun. IF, in that expanded surface area, even a bit extra light is refracted into the skin / leaf, then there would be a corresposding increase in the effect of said sunlight. The only question is how small / large of an effect.
For plants, though, in general, I've heard only apply water the soil / roots. (in hydroponics, you do'nt water the leaves) The leaves should only be moistened by a spray bottle set to mist, if at all.
QuoteWhether the swine flu is a real concern, or an attempt by the pharmaceutical companies to make more money on vaccines, this might be helpful information. Forward this or post where-ever you like
Sources: Farmacy Herbs, Karlo Berger, American Red Cross.
Step One Prevention: If the flu hits your area the best practice is prevention
Tea: Sage, Skullcap, Oregano, Thyme, Elder Flower, Holy Basil, Nettle. 2-3 cups daily
Tincture: Echinacea 2x daily; 2 dropperful (One week on, one week off) Astragulus Tea (3 cups) or Tincture( 2 dropperful 3x daily)
Food; Miso, raw garlic, veggie broths, Cayenne pepper, Turmeric, organic veggies, meats and grains. Stay away from processed foods, food coloring and sugar and alcohol (sugars in the body feed bacteria and viruses) and coffee (coffee dehydrates the body and depletes you of vitamins and minerals that will help fight off pathogens).
Anti-Viral/ Anti-biotic Hand Wash: 10 drops grapefruit seed extract/ 10 drops tea tree essential oil extract in 1 gallon water
Antiseptic Spray for surfaces: Vodka, Water, Tea Tree Oil, Lavender Essential oil. Disinfect door knobs switches , handles, toys and other surfaces that are commonly touched.
Air Sanitizer: Simmer water on low heat in a pot with 5 drops Eucalyptus Essential Oil or 5 drops Tea Tree Essential Oil or Lavender Essential Oil
If you do come down with the flu, then focus on immunity!
If your fever is high, use lukewarm water, if your fever is not high, hot baths are okay. (Remember fevers are our bodies way of heating up to kill pathogens. Very high fevers are dangerous, but a low fever is actually good) Drink veggie and chicken broths with miso and raw garlic (tons of it!) and a pinch of Cayenne Pepper. If you have an appetite eat only organic brown rice and greens/ steamed veggies ( the simpler the better with food, if you put food that is hard to digest in your body, your energy goes to digesting, rather than fighting pathogens)
Air sanitizer: Water steam with Eucalyptus Essential Oil or Tea Tree Essential Oil or Lavender Oil (do this in the room every 5 hours)
Continue tea: Sage, Skullcap, Oregano, Thyme, Elder Flower, Holy Basil, Nettle. (1 quart daily.) add these tinctures 2 droperfull 3x daily Meadowsweet, Japanese Knotweed, Turmeric (keep up the echinacea and the astragulus)
Colloidal Silver: 2 squirts three times daily Vitamin C 20000 mg daily Grapefruit seed Extract: 1/4 teaspoon once daily.
Sleep Aids/ Pain Relief: Valerian, Chammomile, White Willow Bark, Lemon Balm, St. Johns Wort Take 1-2 squirts of tincture as needed or 1-2 cups of tea as needed Stay home and avoid sharing items with household members (pens, papers, computers, remote control. sheets, towels eating utensils, food.)
Caregivers should wear disposable gloves and wearing a mask when giving care. Clean sheets, bedding and clothes every day. Take baths with 10 drops of lavender essential oil and 10 drops rosemary essential oil and sea salt.
-- farmacyherbs.com
Urg, alternative medicine. And badly reasoned alternative medicine.
Lesse, the bits I know about...
Echinacea has been shown not to actually aid in curing illnesses, but it does provide mild relief of symtoms in at least some cases (this may be placebo effect, the study was only meant for determining of it cures it). No idea about prevention, but so much about it is BS.
Organic isn't usually healthier unless you have specific health problems, sometimes its worse. Sugar won't feed a virus either.
Cayenne is a coagulant, or an anti coagulant, I forget, I have no fricking clue how either would react to a flu infection, I'd talk to a doctor before loading yourself full of something your body isn't used to. Spicy foods can help with mild respitory symptoms in my experience (loosens mucus), god only knows what it would do with a severe case.
I don't know about garlic preventing the flu, but it sure as hell makes me feel better, and reduced symptoms might be the difference between life and death (or just killing yourself to make it stop), eat it raw.
I love that it wants you to use expensive eucalyptus oil, instead of just using the plant.
Vitamin C: Critical to the immune system, its better to get it from food (oranges especially) than a vitamin supplement (lots of companies use cheaper versions of vitamins that the body doesn't absorb as easily).
White Willow Bark: You mean fuckign aspirin? Except not even aspirin, the less effective more dangerous to use retarded cousin of aspirin.
I really need to find a reliable guide to what works and what doesn't in alternative medicine, instead of going through the few studies I can find by hand and learning by experience.
Where did you get your information on alternative medicine? It's terribly flawed, as well as being incomplete.
Some studies show that Echinacea does indeed act as an immunostimulator and, in 3-gram doses of the root, cut both chances of infection and the duration of a cold. Other studies that showed it does not, either used much smaller doses, or aerial parts of the plant.
Organic may or may not be healthier to consume, depending on what it is. The higher on the food chain, the more unwanted/potentially harmful constituents can be avoided by eating organic.
Capsicum is a coagulant. Use to prevent flu is questionable, but it does thin mucous and increase circulation, so it may provide some relief of symptoms.
Garlic actually helps kill viruses, as well as being an immunostimulant and an antibacterial. Eating a lot of garlic makes your body less hospitable to viruses.
From http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/willow-bark-000281.htm
QuoteWillow bark is used to ease pain and reduce inflammation. There is good evidence that it does just that. Researchers believe that the chemical salicin, found in willow bark, is responsible for these effects. However, studies have identified several other components of willow bark that have antioxidant, fever-reducing, antiseptic, and immune-boosting properties. Some studies have shown willow is as effective as aspirin for reducing pain and inflammation (but not fever), and at a much lower dose. Researchers think that may be due to the other compounds in the herb. More research is needed.
Eucalyptus oil isn't that expensive, and how are you supposed to use the whole plant in a vaporizer? Besides that, the damn stuff doesn't even GROW in most places.
Also, I would suggest ditching the term "alternative medicine" which includes rampant quackery, and instead focus on "herbal medicine", most of which actually does have a well-established scientific basis because the chemical constituents of thousands of medicinally important plants are known, and effects of many have been documented over hundreds of years. It might help narrow your quest.
A few books I can recommend:
The Herb Book by John Lust. Simple, but cheap, easy to read and a good starting point. Mostly useful as a quick reference.
The Scientific Validation of Herbal Medicine by Michael Lowrey. Comprehensive, excellently researched.
Weiss's Herbal Medicine. Expensive, but scholarly and very scientific.
Indian Herbology of North America by Alma R. Hutchens (if you live in North America).
Some sort of field guide to plants wherever you live. Several field guides is better, for cross-reference.
I've forgotten a lot of what I knew, but herbal medicine was my first love. Modern medicine has shifted to near-total dependence on synthetic pharmaceuticals, but let's not forget where pharmaceuticals came from.
Thanks for the herbal medicine booktips nigel.
Listen i dont know if anyone covered this but having a strong cohesive network of friends is one of your best survival traits.
Become proactive now not just waiting for an inevitable (which is anything but). For instance consider the vast network of intentional communities, If you can provide something which will be mutally helpful for both them and yourself you will find yourself creating a much stronger infrastructure for yourself.
Explore carvans, biodiesal from algae and aquaponic systems.
Get yourself familiar with wild edible plants
Plantains which are seen on damn near every sidewalk in the world are very hardy and resilient plants whose roots break down concrete and are highly nutritious.
GEt to know your neighbors, in the even of collapse your ability to help out your immediate community will provide you the greatest edge in survival. Despite our individualist tendancy in the west we are social creatures and by becoming co-dependent on one another we can bring out the best in one another and foster greater prosperity even in the face of adversity.
Quote from: Novatore on May 03, 2009, 06:50:22 PM
Plantains which are seen on damn near every sidewalk in the world are very hardy and resilient plants whose roots break down concrete and are highly nutritious.
while plantains are indeed highly nutritious, they are certainly not found in colder climes. also, they grow on trees, not vines, so they are unlikely to be found on sidewalks anywhere unless someone dumped a crate of them there.
Different plantains: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/WEEDS/broadleaf_plantain.html
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 05:25:48 PM
Where did you get your information on alternative medicine? It's terribly flawed, as well as being incomplete.
myspace :D
Quote from: Nigel on May 03, 2009, 11:09:20 PM
Different plantains: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/WEEDS/broadleaf_plantain.html
yep i should have clarified that a bit, on a different note:
Urban edibles is a very excellent site which utilizes crowdsourcing to map all the wild edibles in pdx, its an idea I would like to see spread to other locales:
http://urbanedibles.org/
Aquaponics is very similar to hydroponics except a second cycle is added where fish, typically Tilapia provide the nitrogenous waste which provides nutrients for the plants, like wise there are systems where the food for the tilapia is grown in the system. Once the system is set up all it requires is attention and occasional addition of water.
http://farmfountain.com/howto/index.html
Quote from: Yάttᶿ on May 04, 2009, 02:20:33 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 05:25:48 PM
Where did you get your information on alternative medicine? It's terribly flawed, as well as being incomplete.
myspace :D
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 05:25:48 PM
*snip*
Organic may or may not be healthier to consume, depending on what it is. The higher on the food chain, the more unwanted/potentially harmful constituents can be avoided by eating organic.
*snip*
If something is high up on the food chain, wouldn't organic be of questionable use, since there are toxins in its food, irrespective of what else is done? I suppose that non organic feed could exacerbate the problem in farm raised animals though.
On echinacea:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/353/4/341
Edit: It occurs to me that every study I've seen on the stuff focuses on the cold, it might be a different story with respect to other viruses.
Quote from: Requia on May 04, 2009, 04:32:19 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 05:25:48 PM
*snip*
Organic may or may not be healthier to consume, depending on what it is. The higher on the food chain, the more unwanted/potentially harmful constituents can be avoided by eating organic.
*snip*
If something is high up on the food chain, wouldn't organic be of questionable use, since there are toxins in its food, irrespective of what else is done? I suppose that non organic feed could exacerbate the problem in farm raised animals though.
Organic-raised animals are fed organic food, and are not given hormones or antibiotics. Read more.
Quote from: Requia on May 04, 2009, 04:37:57 AM
On echinacea:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/353/4/341
Edit: It occurs to me that every study I've seen on the stuff focuses on the cold, it might be a different story with respect to other viruses.
That's one of the studies I referenced. In that study they used approximately one-third the dosage used in studies that showed an immunostimulant effect.
Link to the studies that show this? The only one I can find studied echinacea in combination with other things, and didn't distinguish between the two.
Quote from: Requia on May 05, 2009, 05:46:11 AM
Link to the studies that show this? The only one I can find studied echinacea in combination with other things, and didn't distinguish between the two.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=medical+echinacea+studies
A) Fuck you
B) Did that already, guess what? Google says you're full of shit.
Try again.
Are you seriously going to be that much of a bitch over me not wanting to do any more research for you over a days-old conversation that I'm bored of?
I mean, the information is out there... if I found it so can you. Or you could call me names because I didn't post the links in the first place and don't feel like looking it up again.
It might require more delving and reading than you feel like doing, but that's not my problem.
Quote from: Nigel on May 09, 2009, 02:49:48 AM
Are you seriously going to be that much of a bitch over me not wanting to do any more research for you over a days-old conversation that I'm bored of?
I mean, the information is out there... if I found it so can you. Or you could call me names because I didn't post the links in the first place and don't feel like looking it up again.
It might require more delving and reading than you feel like doing, but that's not my problem.
No, I'm going to swear at you because you pull the 'go look it up' schtick on me every time I claim you're wrong. Then when i come back with citations that *also* say you're wrong you tell me to look it up, if you're going to make claims that the evidence really exists but I'm not trying hard enough, then fuck you.
Quote from: Requia on May 10, 2009, 10:45:19 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 09, 2009, 02:49:48 AM
Are you seriously going to be that much of a bitch over me not wanting to do any more research for you over a days-old conversation that I'm bored of?
I mean, the information is out there... if I found it so can you. Or you could call me names because I didn't post the links in the first place and don't feel like looking it up again.
It might require more delving and reading than you feel like doing, but that's not my problem.
No, I'm going to swear at you because you pull the 'go look it up' schtick on me every time I claim you're wrong. Then when i come back with citations that *also* say you're wrong you tell me to look it up, if you're going to make claims that the evidence really exists but I'm not trying hard enough, then fuck you.
Eat a dick and learn to research.
Most of the info you posted was wrong, which I've already cited enough sources for. If you want to hang onto the last glimmering hope that you might possibly not be misinformed about this one last little thing because I didn't cite my source and don't feel like searching again, go to fucking town, champ.
And get some fucking books or something and educate yourself about health and medicine before you go spouting bullshit about it, ignorant little baby twat.
You have not cited a single fucking study that says anything you're saying is correct. Just claimed that the studies exist.
What more do you want from me? It's a boring, stupid conversation. You were flat wrong about almost everything, which is easily verifiable with a modicum of research (especially if you bother, you know, owning books) and now you are clinging to one thing you think you might just be right about, just because I don't feel like finding the studies again. Fucking look it up or don't, I could give a shit. I've already seen enough misinformation from you to know that you don't know what you're talking about, and my only suggestion is that you educate yourself before spouting off. In the meantime, I know to dismiss anything you claim.
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 05:25:48 PM
Where did you get your information on alternative medicine? It's terribly flawed, as well as being incomplete.
Some studies show that Echinacea does indeed act as an immunostimulator and, in 3-gram doses of the root, cut both chances of infection and the duration of a cold. Other studies that showed it does not, either used much smaller doses, or aerial parts of the plant.
Organic may or may not be healthier to consume, depending on what it is. The higher on the food chain, the more unwanted/potentially harmful constituents can be avoided by eating organic.
Capsicum is a coagulant. Use to prevent flu is questionable, but it does thin mucous and increase circulation, so it may provide some relief of symptoms.
Garlic actually helps kill viruses, as well as being an immunostimulant and an antibacterial. Eating a lot of garlic makes your body less hospitable to viruses.
From http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/willow-bark-000281.htm
QuoteWillow bark is used to ease pain and reduce inflammation. There is good evidence that it does just that. Researchers believe that the chemical salicin, found in willow bark, is responsible for these effects. However, studies have identified several other components of willow bark that have antioxidant, fever-reducing, antiseptic, and immune-boosting properties. Some studies have shown willow is as effective as aspirin for reducing pain and inflammation (but not fever), and at a much lower dose. Researchers think that may be due to the other compounds in the herb. More research is needed.
Eucalyptus oil isn't that expensive, and how are you supposed to use the whole plant in a vaporizer? Besides that, the damn stuff doesn't even GROW in most places.
A) Thats not a study
B) That site recommends homeopathy
C) Thats about Willow bark, we were discussing Echinacea
because I can't write out an entire chapter in a book - but this gives a good summery and also gives my own personal opinions on herbal medicines
QuoteConsider an example from The Genie in the Bottle, in which Schwarcz discusses the original "snake oil." Echinacea, the extract of purple coneflower, was marketed in the 1870s as "Meyer's Blood Purifier," and was claimed to be, among other things, a cure for snake bite -- hence known as snake oil. However, as it wasn't very successful at that particular application, the term came to designate a bogus medication. But echinacea did seem to work on some things -- like the common cold -- and through the 1930s was the highest selling plant medication on the market. Its popularity waned with the dawning of the age of penicillin, but has increased again as consumers have become anxious about the over-consumption of antibiotics and are generally feeling friendlier to natural therapies.
While echinacea is an "interesting substance," notes Schwarcz, the products marketed in health food stores vary wildly in their make-up and thus in their effectiveness. Much depends on the type of plant used as well as the quota of active ingredients -- and which of many ingredients might be most crucial remains uncertain.
http://www.mcgill.ca/news/2002/winter/schwarcz/two/
My main problem is it's a very much a buyer beware market, and I would say almost everyone I know is just not qualified to be expected make proper decisions.
What this is at it's heart is chemistry - biochem of that - which anyone who took a biochem course would agree it's basically a bunch of seemingly random C's and H's that drives most people crazy.
Also never buy product from China. There has been several deaths in Canada due to a diet herb, not cause of the herb but because it was contaminated due to Chinese lack of any regulations.
Quote from: Requia on June 02, 2009, 06:53:02 PM
A) Thats not a study
B) That site recommends homeopathy
C) Thats about Willow bark, we were discussing Echinacea
I didn't say it was a study, I reposted it to reinforce my opinion that you're having a hissy because you were wrong about a bunch of stuff and then you decided to get super-cunty and call me names because I also disagreed with you about Echinacea, and your poor little pride is all bruised and shit. :lulz:
Fucking look it up your own damn self, because I no longer care, you stupid vapid cunt who doesn't know how to research.
Quote from: Requia on May 08, 2009, 06:03:32 AM
A) Fuck you
B) Did that already, guess what? Google says you're full of shit.
Try again.
Retarded, lazy little snitpitcher.
Seriously, do you REALLY want to do this?
http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20070626/study-echinacea-cuts-colds-by-half
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/29145.php
The study referenced: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(07)70160-3/fulltext
If you are incapable of doing incredibly simple research, you should really reconsider escalating the level of conflict because, unlike you, I was not talking out of my ass, and also, unlike you, I was conducting the conversation with the assumption that we were all competent adults who didn't need to be condescended to by posting links to studies which are easily checked out with a couple of keywords. Also, again apparently unlike you, I was not posting to "win", but merely to provide correct information.
In summary:
Try again.
Quote from: Nigel on June 02, 2009, 10:28:50 PM
The study referenced: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(07)70160-3/fulltext
QuoteIn their meta-analysis on preventive and therapeutic effects of echinacea, Sachin Shah and colleagues 1 conclude that "the current evidence in the literature suggests that echinacea has a benefit in decreasing the incidence and duration of the common cold". We believe, however, that this conclusion could be flawed because of several weaknesses in the analysis.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(08)70107-5/fulltext
QuoteI agree with Andreas von Maxen and Peter Schoenhoefer that the studies on echinacea included in our meta-analysis 1 are heterogeneous in their methodological quality. We attempted to cast a broad net to see whether or not a difference in the incidence or duration of cold was evident when the whole of the literature on echinacea was summarised, but as described in our paper's conclusions, 1 we too suggest caution in over-emphasising the results before they can be confirmed with more rigorous, larger
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(08)70108-7/fulltext
I wish I had an account on the lancet :sad:
As far as I know as well the effects of echinacea is still largely unknown. There seems to be some preventive effects, but to what extent is very hard to determine, as there so many factors, including where the plant is grown, how it is grown, harvested, ect. to come up with any meaningful results. Right now I personally agree with Dr. Schwarcz's conclusion on my former quote.
Like I said in the horribly inflammatory statement that I am supposed to be backing up, here:
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 05:25:48 PM
Some studies show that Echinacea does indeed act as an immunostimulator and, in 3-gram doses of the root, cut both chances of infection and the duration of a cold. Other studies that showed it does not, either used much smaller doses, or aerial parts of the plant.
There are about 4 billion articles discussing the methodology and validity of various studies, and the idea of wading through them again to find relevant quotes seems preposterously tedious, tiresome and unnecessary since it's kind of summed up in that Lancet article which
already analyzes and summarizes a significant number of recent studies.
Ya I know... and to that statement I do tend to slightly agree
I just wanted to point out that the one study seems a bit dubious - but then again Im only going off the summaries and the summaries of the peer reviews...
just like I said I would defiantly advise that
Don't buy herbal medication from China... Ever... there has been several deaths in Canada due to contamination, and imported herbal medications is even less regulated in the States...
Im not trying to discourage, just be careful and check things like healthwatcher.com before you take unlicensed medication - which I'm sure you already know, but others might not
You're spot-on about that... also, being aware that while there *are* good ones, many naturopaths and other "alternative" health practitioners are basically quacks, and may prescribe dangerous or ineffective treatments. I've seen that first-hand more than once.
And, of course, to keep in mind that the reason some herbal medicines are effective is because they are drugs, and should be used under the guidance of someone who genuinely knows what they're doing.
This thread used to be awesome. :sad:
It could easily become awesome again if we steer away from the "alturnuhtive meduhsinn is BAAAAAD" pissing match and back to practical information for surviving in a low-tech world. One which, being low-tech, will not likely include ready access to synthetic medicines.
23 should be a better page
Posting on page 23.
EDIT: Goddamnit. :argh!:
Have I mentioned before how much I love 550 (Parachute) cord? It's really nifty stuff, so I don't care if I have.
If you need soemthing more substantial than thread or twine, but not quite as bulky as clothesline or REAL rope, this is your stuff. I carry 20 ft. of it on habbit, and keep at least 200 ft. in the house at all times. This IS overkill, but I have 3 sets of armor that are laced together by it.
Need to keep it from fraying apart? Apply fire. It's totaly synthetic so the stuff melts. If you need to thread it through small holes, and don't have needle / awl / fid / pliers, then jsut wet your fingertips a bit and smoosh it into a pointy "needle" shape while it's still molten.
You can cut the ends of and pull out all the extra strands inside of it. This leaves you with an easily flattened outer "Shell" piece, great for lanyards that have to fit through small places or loops (like on that expensive ass digital camera of yours.), and a bundle of the small inner strands, useable for string, sewing up tents / bags, fishing line, etc.
Ladies: Need corset lace more substantial than the anemic ribbon it comes with? Try this stuff. SRSLY.
Lace your boots with it. (treat with a bit of waterproofing wax if you get worried it will retain water)
Tie things back together.
Lash a knife to anything long for a quick spear, and scare the next door kids while they're smoking dope in your bushes!
Did you ever learn to braid "Gimp" (Plastic craft ribbon) at summer camp? All the same techniques apply, except now they make USEFUL, neat looking things. (You can hang them on your overpriced "Tactical" flashlight, or pointless "Special ops" pocketknife to look like an "operator", if you must. I still think you're just looking silly. Weaponizing your keychain would be more to the point.)
Your all wrong...
if society collapses all you have to do is hang with Bhode
Fuck that, I'm gonna track down the Lamanite.
Apparently, the food simply migrates his way.
Quote from: LMNO on June 03, 2009, 03:08:49 PM
Fuck that, I'm gonna track down the Lamanite.
Apparently, the food simply migrates his way.
:lulz:
If society collapses I hope we all die in fucking fires. Abandon hope, scream, and run in a circle. It'll be quicker that way.
There is no knowledge that will help you.
Not even if I have 550 parachute cord?
It might make it harder for cannibal fundies and furry mutants to take the boots off your corpse.
What if I have one of these?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/flyeridea-chainsaw.jpg)
Quote from: Richter on June 03, 2009, 01:17:29 PM
Have I mentioned before how much I love 550 (Parachute) cord? It's really nifty stuff, so I don't care if I have.
If you need soemthing more substantial than thread or twine, but not quite as bulky as clothesline or REAL rope, this is your stuff. I carry 20 ft. of it on habbit, and keep at least 200 ft. in the house at all times. This IS overkill, but I have 3 sets of armor that are laced together by it.
Need to keep it from fraying apart? Apply fire. It's totaly synthetic so the stuff melts. If you need to thread it through small holes, and don't have needle / awl / fid / pliers, then jsut wet your fingertips a bit and smoosh it into a pointy "needle" shape while it's still molten.
You can cut the ends of and pull out all the extra strands inside of it. This leaves you with an easily flattened outer "Shell" piece, great for lanyards that have to fit through small places or loops (like on that expensive ass digital camera of yours.), and a bundle of the small inner strands, useable for string, sewing up tents / bags, fishing line, etc.
Ladies: Need corset lace more substantial than the anemic ribbon it comes with? Try this stuff. SRSLY.
Lace your boots with it. (treat with a bit of waterproofing wax if you get worried it will retain water)
Tie things back together.
Lash a knife to anything long for a quick spear, and scare the next door kids while they're smoking dope in your bushes!
Did you ever learn to braid "Gimp" (Plastic craft ribbon) at summer camp? All the same techniques apply, except now they make USEFUL, neat looking things. (You can hang them on your overpriced "Tactical" flashlight, or pointless "Special ops" pocketknife to look like an "operator", if you must. I still think you're just looking silly. Weaponizing your keychain would be more to the point.)
The most important question is what's it feel like, and would it work for bondage applications?
It's a bit thin for most applications of that. Make sure all parties willing to include rope burn in the session. :wink:
If you can't arm yourself with a razor sharp tool made from trash, how do you expect to be CRAZY PREPARED?
http://www.geocities.com/knappersanonymous/bottle.html
Quote from: Richter on June 12, 2009, 02:58:50 PM
If you can't arm yourself with a razor sharp tool made from trash, how do you expect to be CRAZY PREPARED?
http://www.geocities.com/knappersanonymous/bottle.html
:mittens: great find! I am very tempted to try this.
Very nice!
BUMP for a good link:
http://thereifixedit.com/
quick! someone steal their ideas before ESF is destroyed!
http://earthsongforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=73
Discovery channel has been running a show were they stuck a bunch pof pepple i an abandoned machine shop and told them to pretend the world ended. Some pretty good ideas out of it so far, like wood gasification (they have functioning electricity from it).
hzzp://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/personality/health_healthcare_fitness/1071558.html
Emergency: This Book Will Save Your Life By Neil Strauss
Publisher: It Books 2009-03-01 | 432 Pages | ISBN: 0060898771 | PDF | 16 MB
Terrorist attacks. Natural disasters. Domestic crackdowns. Economic collapse. Riots. Wars. Disease. Starvation.
What can you do when it all hits the fan?
You can learn to be self-sufficient and survive without the system.
**I've started to look at the world through apocalypse eyes.** So begins Neil Strauss's harrowing new book: his first full-length worksince the international bestseller The Game, and one of the most original-and provocative-narratives of the year.
After the last few years of violence and terror, of ethnic and religious hatred, of tsunamis and hurricanes–and now of world financial meltdown–Strauss, like most of his generation, came to the sobering realization that, even in America, anything can happen. But rather than watch helplessly, he decided to do something about it. And so he spent three years traveling through a country that's lost its sense of safety, equipping himself with the tools necessary to save himself and his loved ones from an uncertain future.
With the same quick wit and eye for cultural trends that marked The Game, The Dirt, and How to Make Love Like a Porn Star, Emergency traces Neil's white-knuckled journey through today's heart of darkness, as he sets out to move his life offshore, test his skills in the wild, and remake himself as a gun-toting, plane-flying, government-defying survivor. It's a tale of paranoid fantasies and crippling doubts, of shady lawyers and dangerous cult leaders, of billionaire gun nuts and survivalist superheroes, of weirdos, heroes, and ordinary citizens going off the grid.
It's one man's story of a dangerous world–and how to stay alive in it.
Before the next disaster strikes, you're going to want to read this book. And you'll want to do everything it suggests. Because tomorrow doesn't come with a guarantee...
Cain, peeking over my shoulder in the IRL bookstore to see what books I picked up off the shelf to peruse earlier today and then "coincidentally" finding the same book in e-format to post on PD a few hours later isn't funny. It's creepy.
How did I miss this.
I have a decent collection of ebooks on or related to this topic I could try to share. Some fiction...still good stuff. As for everything else, I will give advice, but after that you are on your own.
They tell me I am crazy for wanting to build my earth sheltered house in the mountains of the southwest US and trying to stockpile food and ammo. They won't be talking shit when they need shit from me. Then I just laugh!
Really, though, it just comes down to taking a little time and maybe a little money and looking at potential problems that may occur, and finding the tools and resources that you will best help you overcome the obstacles that might make your way of living difficult. Some training/practice and a few little things that it makes sense to keep around anyway greatly help you out.
Anyway, might get the chance to look through this eventually
Cain, thanks! a friend of mine kept pushing me I should read it but for some reason he hasn't lent it to me yet, this will get me started :) thanks loads.
:thanks:
awesome!
thx, Cain!
:D
nice dl now
:mrgreen:
I'm nearly through "Emergency", it's well-written, but has a lot more story and "look at me being tougher than my make up doll russian girlfriend" in it than practical advice.
Especially the first part, where he sets out to get a second nationality. Not being American, I really couldn't care less about that. My gf being half Dutch / half German (currently only German nationality, but will be a dual one day), I'm aware of the red tape and bureaucratic hoops. But then again, being a EU citizen, the second nationality isn't that crucial for me I guess.
The whole survivalism stuff is much more interesting.
Oh and a littlebit OT, but the guy mentioned a few times that he had to take a shit because of something he just ate, and also like more than 3 times a day? Wtf? Food takes like 30-36 hours to move through your bowels, how can your lunch meal make you wanna shit right after? Also, if necessary you can keep in your shit to once a day, right. Ah well. Maybe Americans have different bowels?
Either way, the book is a good read, and provides a couple of pointers for stuff you might wanna try to learn yourself.
I should probably learn to use a knife (but do you need a teacher for that? I could get a piece of wood and start practicing carving, no?), and (still!) some mixed martial arts stuff. And maybe knife fighting? Although, the one bit of advice I read in a blog somewhere (stick it in the neck and turn 90 degrees) is probably all I need in addition to hand combat.
And, yes, learn to shoot a gun. But that's kind of more difficult in NL. So I'm gonna skip that for a while, WTSHTF there won't be that many guns anyway. And neither do our supermarkets and gas stations stock ammo :)
Quote from: Triple Zero on November 14, 2009, 12:56:47 PM
Oh and a littlebit OT, but the guy mentioned a few times that he had to take a shit because of something he just ate, and also like more than 3 times a day? Wtf? Food takes like 30-36 hours to move through your bowels, how can your lunch meal make you wanna shit right after? Also, if necessary you can keep in your shit to once a day, right. Ah well. Maybe Americans have different bowels?
Maybe in the same way as coffee makes you shit?
i always thought it was 5-8 hrs to go from cud to turd...
also, my kryptonite is using toilets other than my own, and so i have developed the super power of not shitting for 3-4 days even eating normally...
Quote from: Regret on November 16, 2009, 01:00:05 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on November 14, 2009, 12:56:47 PM
Oh and a littlebit OT, but the guy mentioned a few times that he had to take a shit because of something he just ate, and also like more than 3 times a day? Wtf? Food takes like 30-36 hours to move through your bowels, how can your lunch meal make you wanna shit right after? Also, if necessary you can keep in your shit to once a day, right. Ah well. Maybe Americans have different bowels?
Maybe in the same way as coffee makes you shit?
Hm yeah coffee does do that.
Yeah, the 24-36 hour time is what it takes for (solid?) food to complete digestion and clear the body properly. (IIRC liquids take much less, since they don't have to be dissolved in the stomach first.)
Fortunately, the digestive system has some "Emergency Abort, Clear The Pipes" functions, which can cut that time down, at the expense (possibly benefit) of not fully digesting the food. Useful when the intestines detect pathogens - gets the stuff out of your body before it can do much harm.
you know, the more i learn about my body the more i love it.
It's snazzy and spiffy at the same time!
Seriously?
BAI, if something ultra-super-bad like that happens because of the LHC, I will eat my house.
The whole thing.
A prime example of CP mindset form work yesterday. Someone was looking for string.
I offered them some of the 10 meters of paracord I carry at all times. 5 people and at last 2 military vets rejected it as "too thick".
What the shit? they don't know how to pull the core out for smaller strings?
TWO of them were MILITARY, at least one a Marine with signif. survival training, and did not learn the awesome of this stuff?
Well, you can be trained, you can be educated, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to USE what you know. That takes the will to take the steps, and the metnal flexibility to make what you know fit a situation.
Granted, I've met military folks who were some crafty, crazy motherfuckers, and some Scouts who will forever outdo me in woodsmanship or improvisation. Then I meet some folks who despite all the chances to have learned it, do not know jack.
most people who like staying sane have this line of code:
If at work: disable brain
You've been eating the narativium laced sandwiches again haven't you?
Quote from: Richter on December 17, 2009, 03:52:21 PM
A prime example of CP mindset form work yesterday. Someone was looking for string.
I offered them some of the 10 meters of paracord I carry at all times. 5 people and at last 2 military vets rejected it as "too thick".
What the shit? they don't know how to pull the core out for smaller strings?
TWO of them were MILITARY, at least one a Marine with signif. survival training, and did not learn the awesome of this stuff?
Well, you can be trained, you can be educated, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to USE what you know. That takes the will to take the steps, and the metnal flexibility to make what you know fit a situation.
Granted, I've met military folks who were some crafty, crazy motherfuckers, and some Scouts who will forever outdo me in woodsmanship or improvisation. Then I meet some folks who despite all the chances to have learned it, do not know jack.
This doesn't surprise me, as most of the army guys I know never use the 550 cord gut for anything. If you don't use all of it why would you even bother to carry the whole thing around? Out of curiosity, what does your EDC consist of?
I more call it "Shit I leave the house with" :lulz:
It's a laundry list of stuff. I'll compile and post tomorrow.
Here's the list. The whole kit masses 10-15 lbs. depending on the optional stuff, a weight which I don't really notice
On person:
Money clip for cards and cash.
Chapstick.
Small bic pen.
Cell phone
Keys: (Car, house, 2 padlock keys, Gerber "artifact" multitool for bottle opener and small razor, 2 ft. paracord lanyard for neck / belt, 2 ft. paracord braided with a small stainless shackle)
Bag: (Timbuk2 messenger bag)
2 carabiners (1 heavy steel drum lock, 1 light aluminium) on the strap
Emerson CQC-8 folding knife, modified (in pouch on strap)
Coleman LED flashlight (in pounch on strap)
1 large safety pin (on pouch)
800 ml. stainless steel water bottle (clips to one of said carabiners)
Sub - pockets:
4 gig MicroSD card, in USB adapter
Ipod touch
spare set contact lenses
Hobby knife
Hemostat, bent tip
Titanium fork and spoon.
Plastic Chopsticks
2 sharpies
2 pens
1 pencil
3 small screwdrivers
1 marlin spike
various dental picks
2 lighters
pencil touch (butane)
magnesium / flint firestarter
Sewing kit
small handle, screwdrivers and torx head bits
playing cards
Gaming dice
small cotnainer schiracha
small container salt + adobo
eye drops
latex gloves
eye drops
gauze pads
Generic aleve painkiller
ear plugs
hand sanitizer
condoms
2-3 penannular broaches
iodine water tablets
chemical hand warmer
waterproof capsule for sugar
Powdered sports drink
Main pocket
Sunglasses (perscription)
Leatherman tool
20 ft. paracord
Multitool (hex bits, scredrivers)
tiger balm and arnica gel
knee brace
2 padlocks (the infamous Masterlock, and the old fashioned "pirate" lock)
Carving kit (4 files and chisel) and spare bits of bone to work on
1 med. fixed blade knife (Scary Sharp)
diamond hone
Electrical tape
leather gloves
mechanix gloves
moleskine
1 large philips head screwdriver
Keys (braided lanyard, carabiner, small bottler opener / knife combo, backup car / house keys) (sort of an improv flail)
swiss army knife
tiny led flashlight
ethernet cable (4 ft.)
extra crap (Loose d12, tiny wood tokens, metal bits, clevis pins, cotter pins, copper roofing nails, loose chainmail rings, brass hexagons, titanium ring size 10, about $2 in quarters, 1 british pound, .10 euro, 1 Irish cent, extra bird blunt for fencing swords, kleenex)
Optional packages to drop in:
1st aid kit
Netbook + charger
nested titanium kettle / stainless steel cup, small bottles spices
NICE :lulz: I'm usually the most prepared person among my peers, but I can't even hold a candle to that.
I'm guessing you have a panic attack every time you have to go through airport security.
that's an awesome list, but I wonder, how do you fit all that in a bag and sub-pockets? I mean, not qua space, but without it becoming a mess that you have to dig in and where stuff cannot be found when needed and worse, damages eachother?
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 21, 2009, 04:33:44 PM
that's an awesome list, but I wonder, how do you fit all that in a bag and sub-pockets? I mean, not qua space, but without it becoming a mess that you have to dig in and where stuff cannot be found when needed and worse, damages eachother?
It actually all fits in pretty well. I pack carefully, and keep the most often used things in pockets, pouches, or on a lanyard. This has never been a problem.
I also have some skill "coordinating" and working with messes. When I have to I can find things in it, in the dark, without difficulty. (Painkillers, eye drops, antacids, sugar, gatorade, etc, are kept in unique containers so I can identify the contents be touch.)
Quote from: LMNO on December 21, 2009, 04:20:18 PM
I'm guessing you have a panic attack every time you have to go through airport security.
I fly naked and check all my bags. This is allowed by my standing as a product of Project BITCHHAMMER, and backed up by terms of my parole. It goes well; except when I forget to remove the sub dermal razor blades or the spike I keep up my urethra.
I was assuming you didn't have problems with it, it's more that I would have them and would gladly accept advice on how to deal with them :)
Ahh, now I follow :)
Having 10 internal pockets plus the main compartment help a LOT. I try to keep the small tools and pens in the appropriate pockets, and clip them in where i can. If something (like the Ipod), isn't abrasion friendly, it gets a case, a wrap in a bandana or cloth. (I keep 1-2 fair sized cloths around too, preferably 1 meter square. Bandanas, slings, bandages, blindfolds, etc.)
LArger items, books, the carving tools in their pouch, computer, or such, I try to stack in like school books in a backpack. Computer screens either go up agaisnt a book or other flat rigid larger than the computer, or face my body. When packing, if needed, I try to build a "pyramid", wide objects in the back, getting more narrow towards the "front" (side away from my body) of the bag. This "pyramid" stack cn slide either way, or stay central, to let the contents of the pcoekts further stabilize the load, or I'll add the other incidental bits in to fill in the corners / dead space, making less room for things to move.
cool I will give that a go next time I pack my bag :)
Use the Universal Edibility Test to Find Food in a Survival Situation
http://lifehacker.com/5454722/use-the-universal-edibility-test-to-find-food-in-a-survival-situation
ETA, a comment: "All plants are edible; some only once."
For the aspiring crazy prepared person, the American series Burn Notice may be of interest. The main character's innovative uses of hardware supplies are actually extensively researched and easily accomplished, with the right skill set. Equally being Crazy Prepared (in conjunction with the Batman Gambit) is often how the character overcomes the villain of the week.
Bruce Campbell is also a regular character in it, which is reason enough alone to watch.
cool, I will check it, getting S01 first.
Quote from: Cain on January 27, 2010, 04:18:33 PM
Bruce Campbell is also a regular character in it, which is reason enough alone to watch.
Quotes from the show with the names changed to random fantasy RPG characters for pick-up scripts during game:
"The difference between a Thief and a Spy is that the Thief can steal something and just walk away. The Spy has to show up at the scene of the crime the next morning and act like everyone else." --J'role the Honorable Thief
"When you're playing the Spy-Hunter, and the Spy that you are hunting is yourself, the trail of clues to the Spy can lead you anywhere." --J'role the Honorable Thief
"Makin' yourself invisible when yah need to is a crucial skill for the covert operative; it sounds exotic but it's not like there's a super secret talent they teach you at Adept school that allows you to vanish into thin air. Often it's just a matta' of quick thinking, fast feet, and strong fingers." --Garlthik One-Eye, Magistrate of Kratas
"Look boys... Anytime you recommend a friend for a job, you're on the hook if things don't work out. In the merchant-train guarding business for example, make a bad referral and you might get fired yourself. In the armed robbery business on the other hand, make a bad referral and you might get killed. So you really, really have to hope that the new guy knows what he's doing... or I'll gack him myself. *Whole room laughs, some nervously* " --Terricia, Supreme Slasher of the Force of the Eye
Sugar (a drug dealer): "What's your problem?"
Terricia: "My problem right now is an overgrown pretty-boy-elf drug dealer's corpse with a bad dye job is standing in my way."
Terricia: We could go in there now.
Garlthik: No, Terri, we're going to do this the right way.
Terricia: *flutter* Booooring.
J'role: "I've never found a good way to hide a knife in a bathing suit."
Terricia:: "Your charms no longer have any effect on me J'role. *she pinches him somewhere off screen*"
"One perk of having been burned by Throal - my crimes were just crimes, not acts of war." --Garlthik One-Eye, reminiscing on early covert skirmishes between Thera and Throal
"By Astendar, Vistrosh, your skin is so pale and smooth, like alabaster. Still drinking the blood of children?" --Terricia, Supreme Slasher [Force of the Eye], delivering a complement
"When someone turns you into an asset, their main weapon is fear; if you fear poverty or exposure or death, that's what they use against you. Their worst nightmare then, is an asset with no fear." --J'role the Honorable Thief
"People with happy families don't become spies." --J'role the Honorable Thief
"In a fight, you have to be careful not to break the little bones in your hands on someone's face. That's why I like bathrooms, lots of hard surfaces." --Garlthik One-Eye, Magistrate of Kratas
"If it looks like you're about to get into a fight that could get you killed, try starting a different one." --Terricia
"Fightin' is something you want to avoid. Once you fight someone he knows your face. You kinda blow your cover when you hit a guy with a piece of furniture. When you have no choice, furniture it is." --Garlthik One-Eye, Magistrate of Kratas
"What the hell does it look like I'm doing? I'm throwing crap at a warehouse!" --Morg Kneebreaker, Tax Collector General [Force of the Eye]
"Garlthik, I saved your ass at the warehouse, the least you could do is have some decent beer in the safehouse." --Blertis, Elder-Druzhinnik(Bodyguard Sargent~ukraine) [Force of the Eye], Master Illusionist
"There are two kinds of government surveillance, the kind that's there to look for something, and the kind that's just there to make your life difficult." --Garlthik One-Eye, Magistrate of Kratas
"If I'm going to go to war with Thera I'm going to need some money" --Garlthik One-Eye, Magistrate of Kratas
"When you go on the run, the first thing you do is lay down tracks in the opposite direction, but that only works if the bad guys find the trail and believe it's for real, which means selling it. You need to put on a little show, make them feel clever. When you make somebody work to get a piece of information they'll believe it that much more because it's hard to get." --J'role the Honorable Thief
"Spies go to bars for the same reason people go to libraries: full of information if you know where to ask." --J'role the Honorable Thief
"Getting information out of someone who doesn't want to give it up is all about upsetting the target's emotional balance, impairing their judgment. Fear is good for that; anger is not bad either." --Terricia, Supreme Slasher [Force of the Eye]
"The thing about security is that the very things that protect you can be turned against you by someone who knows what he's doing. It's tough to compromise a well thought-out security system, but making someone think you can compromise it, well, that's much easier. Take surveillance magic, for example: you can disable one with a flash charm, or smoke bomb, as they're very light sensitive. Cheap, easy, and exactly the sort of thing a sophisticated criminal gang with lots of resources would do. Then, leave around some tell-tale signs of surveillance like rolled-tabbac butts, a forgotten chicken bone and the more security there is the more likely they are to think they've got a very serious problem. Even the security team itself can be an opportunity. The more mooks you have, the more you have to worry about them. Deliver some vague threats and a few hundred silver to a security guard. If he's honest he'll tell his boss, who then wonders who wasn't so honest. For the cost of a nice dinner you can get a whole security team canned." --Garlthik One-Eye, Magistrate of Kratas
Garlthik (to Blertis and some Force of the Eye): The art of turning someone into a double agent is delicate. The target has to be put into a fragile psychological state.
Lucio the Theran (from the main barroom heard through the kitchen door): Get this crazy bitch away from me!
Garlthik: Fortunately, fragile psychological states are a specialty of Terricia's.
Terricia: Ah, the mating dance of the spy. It's a wonder spies ever get close enough to kill each other, isn't it?
J'role: A great way to get people talking about their security is to put them on the defensive. Accuse a guy of having bad locks and before you know it he's telling you where his wards and alarms are.
Garlthik: When you're claiming to be someone you're not, the key is commitment. You've got to sell it like your life depends on it, because sometimes it does. One reason to work with the same people is you know each other's moves, so if you shoot at your team in the middle of an operation, they know to go with it.
"When you work as a spy, it's easy to think of people as assets. Resources to accomplish a goal. Because you don't have a personal relationship with an asset. You don't care about an asset. You don't miss the scent of an asset when she leaves the room." --J'role the Honorable Thief
"If you wanna make a friend, solve a problem for them. No problem to solve? Create one." --Terricia, Supreme Slasher [Force of the Eye]
Terricia: Zeke is one careful con-man. He's security conscious, he's smart... smooth, too, in a cheesy, Blertis kind of way.
Blertis: Hey, smooth is smooth, baby.
"One of the hardest things to do in a fight is to make it look like you're trying to kill someone without doing any permanent damage. They don't teach any half-moves in combat training. There are moves designed to kill and maim as efficiently as possible. If those are off limits, one option is open your fist right before a punch lands. Painful, but the force is distributed. Another showy option is a kick to the shoulder. You might break a rib or two; but if you aim right, nobody is going to the morgue." --Garlthik One-Eye, Magistrate of Kratas
"A fight is one of the quickest ways to tell if someone isn't who they say they are. If you say you are Dinganni but fight like a Throalite, consider your cover blown, which means you better know how to use a Dinganni Talon and how to pull off a serviceable jump-kick. Of course, you also have to win the fight; a great cover identity doesn't help much if you're dead." --J'role the Honorable Thief
Earthdawn?
You the man.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 29, 2010, 10:08:58 PM
Earthdawn?
You the man.
Yup.
I'm a regular on the current developer's forums (the 3rd Edition has some excellent changes, and makes me crave dungeon crawls that turn into lovecraftian horror).
http://www.redbrick-limited.com
[/thread-jack]
http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/the-dakota-fire-hole/
Quote from: Triple Zero on November 14, 2009, 12:56:47 PM
I'm nearly through "Emergency", it's well-written, but has a lot more story and "look at me being tougher than my make up doll russian girlfriend" in it than practical advice.
Especially the first part, where he sets out to get a second nationality. Not being American, I really couldn't care less about that. My gf being half Dutch / half German (currently only German nationality, but will be a dual one day), I'm aware of the red tape and bureaucratic hoops. But then again, being a EU citizen, the second nationality isn't that crucial for me I guess.
The whole survivalism stuff is much more interesting.
Oh and a littlebit OT, but the guy mentioned a few times that he had to take a shit because of something he just ate, and also like more than 3 times a day? Wtf? Food takes like 30-36 hours to move through your bowels, how can your lunch meal make you wanna shit right after? Also, if necessary you can keep in your shit to once a day, right. Ah well. Maybe Americans have different bowels?
Either way, the book is a good read, and provides a couple of pointers for stuff you might wanna try to learn yourself.
I should probably learn to use a knife (but do you need a teacher for that? I could get a piece of wood and start practicing carving, no?), and (still!) some mixed martial arts stuff. And maybe knife fighting? Although, the one bit of advice I read in a blog somewhere (stick it in the neck and turn 90 degrees) is probably all I need in addition to hand combat.
And, yes, learn to shoot a gun. But that's kind of more difficult in NL. So I'm gonna skip that for a while, WTSHTF there won't be that many guns anyway. And neither do our supermarkets and gas stations stock ammo :)
Its definitely more narrative than useful advice. But I find a narrative helps me to remember the useful advice, and makes it a lot more interesting to read, so its not all bad.
I only just started reading it, and I'm about 70 pages in. The comments left on the pdf are sometimes amusing, too.
000: Learning to "use a knife" you don't need a teacher mostly. If it's for whittling, pick up a stick, branch, or bit of lumber and try it! A small set of toolsfor different knife / chisel / gouge shapes can give you a good sense of what does what. I picked up a decent small set for $15, not sure what price / availabilty NL would have. Then try the same with your pocket knife or camping knife!
If you're interested in more "Bushcraft", or "Survival" applications, then the same, but poke around online for ideas and techniques. There's a series, A-Z of Bushcraft, which runs through a lot of the basics (trimming wood into firewood sizes, making kindling, building a fire, etc.).
If you don't already, keep a whetstone or a diamond steel around and practice keeping your tools sharp too (It's a good habit, and extends the usefulness of all your kitchen knives!).
If you go camping try it out! Playing with knives / fire gets bad press, but it teaches you what to do. (this bugged me about "EMERGENCY", too serious, have fun with it.)
Everyone will have their 2 cents on knife fighting. Personally, I'd rather fight with a stick. If all I have is a knife, and I haven't taken 5 min. to cut or find a stick, I've messed up. That said, Cain has a PDF on the subject based on one dude's prison fighting that's covers the technical basics. That discussion on the whole may be better spun off into a MartialSpag thread.
Nice, what have you made so far?
It's got a reputation of being the "Old timer's" craft, but it really does take a lot of skill and patience. Folks who are really into it will make spoons, caged balls, or all sort of improbable things with just a small pocket knife (reground and heavily sharpened), and a lot of patience.
I've found a good way to stimulate discussion is to express interest in someone's intentions in their work.
"I've made a piece of wood into a different shaped peice of wood"
OR
"I was attempting to make...."
OR
"I needed more woodchips for my pet rodent, and decided to make them in a slow way while acting out my 'old country man on the front porch' fetish"
I'm sorry. BAI please proceed to point out that it was in fact option numero three, and weirden it up a notch.
Quote from: Richter on February 05, 2010, 01:54:04 PM
000: Learning to "use a knife" you don't need a teacher mostly. If it's for whittling, pick up a stick, branch, or bit of lumber and try it! A small set of toolsfor different knife / chisel / gouge shapes can give you a good sense of what does what. I picked up a decent small set for $15, not sure what price / availabilty NL would have. Then try the same with your pocket knife or camping knife!
If you're interested in more "Bushcraft", or "Survival" applications, then the same, but poke around online for ideas and techniques. There's a series, A-Z of Bushcraft, which runs through a lot of the basics (trimming wood into firewood sizes, making kindling, building a fire, etc.).
If you don't already, keep a whetstone or a diamond steel around and practice keeping your tools sharp too (It's a good habit, and extends the usefulness of all your kitchen knives!).
If you go camping try it out! Playing with knives / fire gets bad press, but it teaches you what to do. (this bugged me about "EMERGENCY", too serious, have fun with it.)
Everyone will have their 2 cents on knife fighting. Personally, I'd rather fight with a stick. If all I have is a knife, and I haven't taken 5 min. to cut or find a stick, I've messed up. That said, Cain has a PDF on the subject based on one dude's prison fighting that's covers the technical basics. That discussion on the whole may be better spun off into a MartialSpag thread.
Do yourself a favor and get a good Leatherman multitool. They're useful for working with a variety of materials and can be used to make all sorts of shit, extremely useful. Much more-so than a regular knife.
Also, knives are mostly a liability in a fight unless you've had extensive training on how to use them. Knives will take time to stop an assailant even if used properly, a good blunt object can stop an assailant almost immediately. That said, if you've gotten into a fight (especially a close quarters fight) you've already fucked up.
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 05, 2010, 05:47:51 PM
Do yourself a favor and get a good Leatherman multitool. They're useful for working with a variety of materials and can be used to make all sorts of shit, extremely useful. Much more-so than a regular knife.
Also, knives are mostly a liability in a fight unless you've had extensive training on how to use them. Knives will take time to stop an assailant even if used properly, a good blunt object can stop an assailant almost immediately. That said, if you've gotten into a fight (especially a close quarters fight) you've already fucked up.
TRUFPASTE.
also keep in mind you have to:
1. Close into range of the other person's natural (hands, arms, feet, legs, knees, head, teeth), and actual weapons before that knife will do ANYTHING other than look pretty.
2. Have the mindset to fucking them badly, and not forget or hesitate you're fuckign them badly while holding / standing on rabid felines on speed.
These fights end 2 places, according to Dave the crazy Marine. The ER or the Morgue
So for someone who has never got in a fight, and doesn't have the mindset for fucking them badly, what would you suggest they carry?
Pepperspray? Is that legal where you are? I suppose it is.
It's not here :(
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on February 05, 2010, 06:21:16 PM
So for someone who has never got in a fight, and doesn't have the mindset for fucking them badly, what would you suggest they carry?
A cell phone and good running shoes.
Need teh shoes. :sad:
The best thing you can do is to keep your phone handy and pay attention to what's going on around you. If you think something bad might happen, GTFO.
If you get cornered and you feel as though you don't have the stomach to be violent the only think I can think of that would reliably work would be a TASER, but even then you'd have to be able to make contact with it before you got injured.
The best way to win a fight is to avoid it.
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 05, 2010, 09:49:36 PM
The best thing you can do is to keep your phone handy and pay attention to what's going on around you. If you think something bad might happen, GTFO.
If you get cornered and you feel as though you don't have the stomach to be violent the only think I can think of that would reliably work would be a TASER, but even then you'd have to be able to make contact with it before you got injured.
The best way to win a fight is to avoid it.
:lulz: I've got that down to a science, but you never know. Thanks. :)
you can buy a derringer or similar style pistol for a couple hundred bucks. small enough to be concealed in the palm of your hand (or purse, or bra, or whatever), but it holds 1 or 2 shots and can be found in calibers up to and including .32 (might come in even larger calibers but that would make it difficult to conceal in your palm). In a situation where you can't avoid physical confrontation and you are in danger of losing life or limb, a couple of .32 bullets to the chest/gut/face is going to ensure the confrontation ends in your favor.
If you were going to carry a firearm I would suggest a proper compact or subcompact pistol or snub nose revolver with a good-sized caliber (.45 would be good in close quarters). They also make revolvers that shoot shotgun shells, which would be devastating in close quarters. Guns are kind of on the other side of the spectrum as far as violence goes though.
Guns are nice when I'm not pointing them at people.
Every weapon is another set of reactions to train, keep up, and remember under adrenaline.
Basic self defense, drill it, and keep up the general fitness to apply it and RUN. I'm confident Roger can give you pointers on both.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on February 05, 2010, 06:21:16 PM
So for someone who has never got in a fight, and doesn't have the mindset for fucking them badly, what would you suggest they carry?
knowledge of basic physics and basic anatomy.
find weak spots and hit them with a lever and/or weight.
i'd give more tips but i am drunked out of my gourd(wtf is a gourd?) and have decided to refrain.
Quote from: Richter on February 05, 2010, 10:52:20 PM
Every weapon is another set of reactions to train, keep up, and remember under adrenaline.
Basic self defense, drill it, and keep up the general fitness to apply it and RUN. I'm confident Roger can give you pointers on both.
that's why I suggested the derringer. You really don't need to have any proficiency in traditional firearm use to be able to use one effectively, since they're only to be used at point-blank range. I agree that running away from a violent confrontation should almost always be your first choice, but in an urban environment where you run a much higher risk of being cornered or having your egress otherwise impeded, it's good to have a backup and even better if that backup is as close to a guaranteed situation-ender as you can find, short of napalm.
Has anyone ITT mentioned bear spray?
Shit is harsh.
Quote from: Regret on February 06, 2010, 02:18:02 AM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on February 05, 2010, 06:21:16 PM
So for someone who has never got in a fight, and doesn't have the mindset for fucking them badly, what would you suggest they carry?
knowledge of basic physics and basic anatomy.
find weak spots and hit them with a lever and/or weight.
i'd give more tips but i am drunked out of my gourd(wtf is a gourd?) and have decided to refrain.
A gourd is like a squash. Or maybe gourds are made OUT of squashes by hollowing them and drying them out, I forget. People used to put booze in them, I'm pretty sure.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 06, 2010, 08:01:44 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 05, 2010, 10:52:20 PM
Every weapon is another set of reactions to train, keep up, and remember under adrenaline.
Basic self defense, drill it, and keep up the general fitness to apply it and RUN. I'm confident Roger can give you pointers on both.
that's why I suggested the derringer. You really don't need to have any proficiency in traditional firearm use to be able to use one effectively, since they're only to be used at point-blank range. I agree that running away from a violent confrontation should almost always be your first choice, but in an urban environment where you run a much higher risk of being cornered or having your egress otherwise impeded, it's good to have a backup and even better if that backup is as close to a guaranteed situation-ender as you can find, short of napalm.
Unless it goes off in your pocket or your assailant takes it from you, which happens more often than people defend themselves with it. Most don't bother to to get any training in close quarters combat, let alone firearms training. Don't forget MF was asking about things mean for people who don't have the stomach for this sort of thing.
I have a whole article on the blog around this topic.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/blog/richter/self-defense/
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 08, 2010, 05:27:25 AM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 06, 2010, 08:01:44 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 05, 2010, 10:52:20 PM
Every weapon is another set of reactions to train, keep up, and remember under adrenaline.
Basic self defense, drill it, and keep up the general fitness to apply it and RUN. I'm confident Roger can give you pointers on both.
that's why I suggested the derringer. You really don't need to have any proficiency in traditional firearm use to be able to use one effectively, since they're only to be used at point-blank range. I agree that running away from a violent confrontation should almost always be your first choice, but in an urban environment where you run a much higher risk of being cornered or having your egress otherwise impeded, it's good to have a backup and even better if that backup is as close to a guaranteed situation-ender as you can find, short of napalm.
Unless it goes off in your pocket or your assailant takes it from you, which happens more often than people defend themselves with it. Most don't bother to to get any training in close quarters combat, let alone firearms training. Don't forget MF was asking about things mean for people who don't have the stomach for this sort of thing.
umm, if you shoot yourself in the leg or allow an assailant to take a DERRINGER from you (not a regular pistol, a friggin DERRINGER), then you are probably not cut out for surviving. Derringers are specificially meant to be a failsafe defense option for people with no training and who have never fired a gun before.
And if you don't have the stomach for this sort of thing, well, I suspect this decade is going to be rough on you.
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 08, 2010, 05:27:25 AM
Unless it goes off in your pocket or your assailant takes it from you, which happens more often than people defend themselves with it. Most don't bother to to get any training in close quarters combat, let alone firearms training. Don't forget MF was asking about things mean for people who don't have the stomach for this sort of thing.
also, citation needed.
Freeky couldn't shoot anyone to save her own life. It's just not in her programming.
She might if her monkey was threatened, of course. But she'd be better off with bear spray or a spike.
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
Sometimes "there" comes to you, Remington.
The ONE thing I like about Arizona is I can be armed to the tits if I want. I usually don't carry, but I
can.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 08, 2010, 05:27:25 AM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 06, 2010, 08:01:44 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 05, 2010, 10:52:20 PM
Every weapon is another set of reactions to train, keep up, and remember under adrenaline.
Basic self defense, drill it, and keep up the general fitness to apply it and RUN. I'm confident Roger can give you pointers on both.
that's why I suggested the derringer. You really don't need to have any proficiency in traditional firearm use to be able to use one effectively, since they're only to be used at point-blank range. I agree that running away from a violent confrontation should almost always be your first choice, but in an urban environment where you run a much higher risk of being cornered or having your egress otherwise impeded, it's good to have a backup and even better if that backup is as close to a guaranteed situation-ender as you can find, short of napalm.
Unless it goes off in your pocket or your assailant takes it from you, which happens more often than people defend themselves with it. Most don't bother to to get any training in close quarters combat, let alone firearms training. Don't forget MF was asking about things mean for people who don't have the stomach for this sort of thing.
umm, if you shoot yourself in the leg or allow an assailant to take a DERRINGER from you (not a regular pistol, a friggin DERRINGER), then you are probably not cut out for surviving. Derringers are specificially meant to be a failsafe defense option for people with no training and who have never fired a gun before.
And if you don't have the stomach for this sort of thing, well, I suspect this decade is going to be rough on you.
There's no such thing as a failsafe weapon. Even highly trained people 1) miss entirely when the target is a few feet away and 2) have been injured with their own weapons. Most people who own firearms do not have extensive training in close quarters combat.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 08, 2010, 05:27:25 AM
Unless it goes off in your pocket or your assailant takes it from you, which happens more often than people defend themselves with it. Most don't bother to to get any training in close quarters combat, let alone firearms training. Don't forget MF was asking about things mean for people who don't have the stomach for this sort of thing.
also, citation needed.
There were a series of studies done that showed the odds of being injured by your own weapon are greater than the odds of successfully using it in self defense. Can't find it at the moment but I will try to link it later. For now I'll say that, unless you have been trained, it's a very stupid idea to carry a gun. Shit, it's a bad idea to even own one. If you own one and have no training, get some. The NRA offers a wide variety of firearms training. This isn't directed towards you Hustle, but to anyone who has a gun or is considering one and doesn't have any training. I'm guessing you've already been schooled on firearms safety, etc.
EDIT: Ok, here's an AP story that shows 8% of Rhode Island officers have had their own weapons used against them, not what I'm referring to but it does show that even with training this sort of shit happens:
http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/
I'm not espousing that nobody should own a gun, I'm just saying that, if you intend to own one and ESPECIALLY if you intend to carry one you need to learn how to use it properly.
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 05:36:16 PM
There were a series of studies done that showed the odds of being injured by your own weapon are greater than the odds of successfully using it in self defense. Can't find it at the moment but I will try to link it later. For now I'll say that, unless you have been trained, it's a very stupid idea to carry a gun. Shit, it's a bad idea to even own one. If you own one and have no training, get some. The NRA offers a wide variety of firearms training. This isn't directed towards you Hustle, but to anyone who has a gun or is considering one and doesn't have any training. I'm guessing you've already been schooled on firearms safety, etc.
I've heard of these studies, but never seen them. I can, however, state that in my personal experience, I have only known two people who successfully used a pistol to
defend themselves, and I've known more than a dozen that have killed or injured themselves or others accidentally or through stupidity.
That's anecdotal as hell, I realize, but there you have it.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 05:24:28 PM
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
Sometimes "there" comes to you, Remington.
The ONE thing I like about Arizona is I can be armed to the tits if I want. I usually don't carry, but I can.
THIS.
This the main tenant of my philosophy of THE DUMB. No matter how carefully you keep your own shit, other people will GUARANTEE that the shit comes to you once in a while.
Even when it does come to you, packing heat increases your likeihood of wanting to solve the problem by heaving to and firing a broadside. (Look up the Weapons Effect. Monkey have tool, monkey wants to use tool to solve problem.) Not that this doesn't work, as long as you pull faster, but it limits working with other solutions, and take situation right into a kill / be killed one.
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
no, you need a special license in Canada if you want the government to be OK with you owning a handgun.
big difference.
Quote from: Richter on February 09, 2010, 05:50:31 PM
Not that this doesn't work, as long as you pull faster, but it limits working with other solutions, and take situation right into a kill / be killed one.
Pulling slower is actually better, Richter. The very best gunfighters are (and were) the guys who have the nerve to take an aimed shot while someone blazes away at them. Fast and accurate is best, but just accurate is better than just fast.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
no, you need a special license in Canada if you want the government to be OK with you owning a handgun.
big difference.
Yeah, but who wants to wind up in one of their reeducation camps near Yellow Knife?
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 05:36:16 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 08, 2010, 05:27:25 AM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 06, 2010, 08:01:44 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 05, 2010, 10:52:20 PM
Every weapon is another set of reactions to train, keep up, and remember under adrenaline.
Basic self defense, drill it, and keep up the general fitness to apply it and RUN. I'm confident Roger can give you pointers on both.
that's why I suggested the derringer. You really don't need to have any proficiency in traditional firearm use to be able to use one effectively, since they're only to be used at point-blank range. I agree that running away from a violent confrontation should almost always be your first choice, but in an urban environment where you run a much higher risk of being cornered or having your egress otherwise impeded, it's good to have a backup and even better if that backup is as close to a guaranteed situation-ender as you can find, short of napalm.
Unless it goes off in your pocket or your assailant takes it from you, which happens more often than people defend themselves with it. Most don't bother to to get any training in close quarters combat, let alone firearms training. Don't forget MF was asking about things mean for people who don't have the stomach for this sort of thing.
umm, if you shoot yourself in the leg or allow an assailant to take a DERRINGER from you (not a regular pistol, a friggin DERRINGER), then you are probably not cut out for surviving. Derringers are specificially meant to be a failsafe defense option for people with no training and who have never fired a gun before.
And if you don't have the stomach for this sort of thing, well, I suspect this decade is going to be rough on you.
There's no such thing as a failsafe weapon. Even highly trained people 1) miss entirely when the target is a few feet away and 2) have been injured with their own weapons. Most people who own firearms do not have extensive training in close quarters combat.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 08, 2010, 05:27:25 AM
Unless it goes off in your pocket or your assailant takes it from you, which happens more often than people defend themselves with it. Most don't bother to to get any training in close quarters combat, let alone firearms training. Don't forget MF was asking about things mean for people who don't have the stomach for this sort of thing.
also, citation needed.
There were a series of studies done that showed the odds of being injured by your own weapon are greater than the odds of successfully using it in self defense. Can't find it at the moment but I will try to link it later. For now I'll say that, unless you have been trained, it's a very stupid idea to carry a gun. Shit, it's a bad idea to even own one. If you own one and have no training, get some. The NRA offers a wide variety of firearms training. This isn't directed towards you Hustle, but to anyone who has a gun or is considering one and doesn't have any training. I'm guessing you've already been schooled on firearms safety, etc.
EDIT: Ok, here's an AP story that shows 8% of Rhode Island officers have had their own weapons used against them, not what I'm referring to but it does show that even with training this sort of shit happens:
http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/
I'm not espousing that nobody should own a gun, I'm just saying that, if you intend to own one and ESPECIALLY if you intend to carry one you need to learn how to use it properly.
you DO know what a Derringer is, right?
it's a single-shot (sometimes two shots in a double-barrel configuration) palm-sized pistol that is meant to ONLY be used at point-blank range.
If you can miss your target when your gun is jammed into the target's guts, well, evolution does not favor you.
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
In the UK, you are not allowed to carry a weapon at all, for any reason other than work-related purposes (so, if you are a builder, you can probably get away with a knife of sorts, a martial arts instructor can have a sword in his car....farmers are allowed guns for pest control).
Therefore, its best to carry totally innocuous items which any person could have on them, but learn to use them in such a way that it can do serious harm. So, for example, I trained with a knife in ju-jitsu, and a pen, when aimed at soft tissue, works just as well with the same stabbing motions. Deoderant, when sprayed into someone's face, isn't as painful as pepper spray, but still does horrible things to the eyes. Small mag-light torches are made of aluminum and hurt like hell when they strike a limb. And so on and so forth.
maybe it's just a difference in cultural backgrounds, but I know FAR more people who have saved life/limb/property with their firearms than I know people who have accidentally injured/killed themselves or others with a firearm.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:58:22 PM
you DO know what a Derringer is, right?
it's a single-shot (sometimes two shots in a double-barrel configuration) palm-sized pistol that is meant to ONLY be used at point-blank range.
If you can miss your target when your gun is jammed into the target's guts, well, evolution does not favor you.
I have one, a .38 reproduction.
And you're right. At point blank range, you really can't miss.
But you CAN blow your johnson off getting it out of your jacket pocket.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 06:00:12 PM
maybe it's just a difference in cultural backgrounds, but I know FAR more people who have saved life/limb/property with their firearms than I know people who have accidentally injured/killed themselves or others with a firearm.
I just know more dumb people, I think.
also, it takes all of a half-hour to learn basic firearm safety and use. Given the state of the world we live in, there's really no excuse for somebody NOT knowing these things.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:58:22 PM
you DO know what a Derringer is, right?
it's a single-shot (sometimes two shots in a double-barrel configuration) palm-sized pistol that is meant to ONLY be used at point-blank range.
If you can miss your target when your gun is jammed into the target's guts, well, evolution does not favor you.
Yes, I know what a derringer is. It doesn't matter, when someone is in a life-or-death situation all sorts of shit happens. It's not a simple as you make it sound. That aside, I would trust a derringer much less than I would trust a revolver in terms of reliability and in terms of accidental discharge.
The attitude that just because it's a derringer anyone ought to be able to carry it around safely and be able to use it properly if they absolutely had to is irresponsible. It's still a gun and shouldn't be in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
The attitude that just because it's a derringer anyone ought to be able to carry it around safely and be able to use it properly if they absolutely had to is irresponsible. It's still a gun and shouldn't be in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
Balls. Things get more interesting when idiots have firearms.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 06:09:25 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
The attitude that just because it's a derringer anyone ought to be able to carry it around safely and be able to use it properly if they absolutely had to is irresponsible. It's still a gun and shouldn't be in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
Balls. Things get more interesting when idiots have firearms.
AtD,
wishes they'd make comfortable and affordable bullet-resistant clothes already.
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 06:17:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 06:09:25 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
The attitude that just because it's a derringer anyone ought to be able to carry it around safely and be able to use it properly if they absolutely had to is irresponsible. It's still a gun and shouldn't be in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
Balls. Things get more interesting when idiots have firearms.
AtD,
wishes they'd make comfortable and affordable bullet-resistant clothes already.
Takes all the fun out of it, AtD.
Though I'd be lying if I said I don't own an SCII.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 05:57:19 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
no, you need a special license in Canada if you want the government to be OK with you owning a handgun.
big difference.
Yeah, but who wants to wind up in one of their reeducation camps near Yellow Knife?
We're not supposed to talk about those places.
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 05:57:19 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
no, you need a special license in Canada if you want the government to be OK with you owning a handgun.
big difference.
Yeah, but who wants to wind up in one of their reeducation camps near Yellow Knife?
We're not supposed to talk about those places.
Then don't. We here in The Land of the Free™ can talk about anything we like
1.
1 Some restrictions may apply. Void where prohibited.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 06:48:53 PM
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 05:57:19 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
no, you need a special license in Canada if you want the government to be OK with you owning a handgun.
big difference.
Yeah, but who wants to wind up in one of their reeducation camps near Yellow Knife?
We're not supposed to talk about those places.
Then don't. We here in The Land of the Free™ can talk about anything we like1.
So long as you stay in your Free Speech Zone
TM, sure.
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 06:52:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 06:48:53 PM
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 05:57:19 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: Remington on February 09, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
The best defense is not being there, tbh.
Also, you need a special license in Canada if you want a handgun.
no, you need a special license in Canada if you want the government to be OK with you owning a handgun.
big difference.
Yeah, but who wants to wind up in one of their reeducation camps near Yellow Knife?
We're not supposed to talk about those places.
Then don't. We here in The Land of the Free™ can talk about anything we like1.
So long as you stay in your Free Speech ZoneTM, sure.
And as long as our speech isn't, you know, radical or anything.
Safe free speech is safe.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 04:32:22 PM
Freeky couldn't shoot anyone to save her own life. It's just not in her programming.
She might if her monkey was threatened, of course. But she'd be better off with bear spray or a spike.
If my monkey was threatened, all I'd need is my fucking TEETH.
I bet I could weild a hammer or other blunt instrument. It somehow doesn't seem the same as puncturing someone or blowing holes in them, bashing their skulls in.
Any close combat weapon is probably going to be more difficult than one which allows you distance, from a "causing other people pain" point of view. With a gun, its point and pull the trigger. With a knife, you get covered in blood. With a hammer or other blunt instrument, you feel the bones breaking with the strikes....
That said, not every psychology is the same. I'm quite comfortable with knives, because I've trained with them and worked with them in several jobs, I'd probably be more nervous with a gun, since I don't currently have the same level of familiarity, though subsequent training could change that.
Best thing to do is grab something large and durable and try several different weapons with them, to see what is the most comfortable. Using something that feels more natural will help, once you get an adrenaline dump and your fine-motor movements go to shit.
Good advice, sir. Thanks. :)
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:58:22 PM
you DO know what a Derringer is, right?
it's a single-shot (sometimes two shots in a double-barrel configuration) palm-sized pistol that is meant to ONLY be used at point-blank range.
If you can miss your target when your gun is jammed into the target's guts, well, evolution does not favor you.
Yes, I know what a derringer is. It doesn't matter, when someone is in a life-or-death situation all sorts of shit happens. It's not a simple as you make it sound. That aside, I would trust a derringer much less than I would trust a revolver in terms of reliability and in terms of accidental discharge.
The attitude that just because it's a derringer anyone ought to be able to carry it around safely and be able to use it properly if they absolutely had to is irresponsible. It's still a gun and shouldn't be in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
you missed the part where there's no excuse for not knowing some basic firearm safety in this day and age. Especially since they're not tricky mechanisms, everything you need to know about them in terms of minimizing risk to yourself is pretty much common sense. Remember, I'm not addressing the world at large, this is advice specifically tailored for the superior mutants at PD.com. Also, if the situation truly is life or death, I fail to see how you're better off with a non-lethal way of defending yourself from someone who may very well be trying to kill you.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 07:36:54 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:58:22 PM
you DO know what a Derringer is, right?
it's a single-shot (sometimes two shots in a double-barrel configuration) palm-sized pistol that is meant to ONLY be used at point-blank range.
If you can miss your target when your gun is jammed into the target's guts, well, evolution does not favor you.
Yes, I know what a derringer is. It doesn't matter, when someone is in a life-or-death situation all sorts of shit happens. It's not a simple as you make it sound. That aside, I would trust a derringer much less than I would trust a revolver in terms of reliability and in terms of accidental discharge.
The attitude that just because it's a derringer anyone ought to be able to carry it around safely and be able to use it properly if they absolutely had to is irresponsible. It's still a gun and shouldn't be in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
you missed the part where there's no excuse for not knowing some basic firearm safety in this day and age. Especially since they're not tricky mechanisms, everything you need to know about them in terms of minimizing risk to yourself is pretty much common sense. Remember, I'm not addressing the world at large, this is advice specifically tailored for the superior mutants at PD.com. Also, if the situation truly is life or death, I fail to see how you're better off with a non-lethal way of defending yourself from someone who may very well be trying to kill you.
Heh. Circa 1882:
Quote from: Mark Twain
Never handle firearms carelessly. The sorrow and suffering that have been caused through the innocent but heedless handling of firearms by the young! Only four days ago, right in the next farm house to the one where I am spending the summer, a grandmother, old and gray and sweet, one of the loveliest spirits in the land, was sitting at her work, when her young grandson crept in and got down an old, battered, rusty gun which had not been touched for many years and was supposed not to be loaded, and pointed it at her, laughing and threatening to shoot. In her fright she ran screaming and pleading toward the door on the other side of the room; but as she passed him he placed the gun almost against her very breast and pulled the trigger! He had supposed it was not loaded. And he was right--it wasn't. So there wasn't any harm done. It is the only case of that kind I ever heard of. Therefore, just the same, don't you meddle with old unloaded firearms; they are the most deadly and unerring things that have ever been created by man. You don't have to take any pains at all with them; you don't have to have a rest, you don't have to have any sights on the gun, you don't have to take aim, even. No, you just pick out a relative and bang away, and you are sure to get him. A youth who can't hit a cathedral at thirty yards with a Gatling gun in three quarters of an hour, can take up an old empty musket and bag his grandmother every time, at a hundred. Think what Waterloo would have been if one of the armies had been boys armed with old muskets supposed not to be loaded, and the other army had been composed of their female relations. The very thought of it make one shudder.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 07:36:54 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:58:22 PM
you DO know what a Derringer is, right?
it's a single-shot (sometimes two shots in a double-barrel configuration) palm-sized pistol that is meant to ONLY be used at point-blank range.
If you can miss your target when your gun is jammed into the target's guts, well, evolution does not favor you.
Yes, I know what a derringer is. It doesn't matter, when someone is in a life-or-death situation all sorts of shit happens. It's not a simple as you make it sound. That aside, I would trust a derringer much less than I would trust a revolver in terms of reliability and in terms of accidental discharge.
The attitude that just because it's a derringer anyone ought to be able to carry it around safely and be able to use it properly if they absolutely had to is irresponsible. It's still a gun and shouldn't be in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
you missed the part where there's no excuse for not knowing some basic firearm safety in this day and age. Especially since they're not tricky mechanisms, everything you need to know about them in terms of minimizing risk to yourself is pretty much common sense. Remember, I'm not addressing the world at large, this is advice specifically tailored for the superior mutants at PD.com. Also, if the situation truly is life or death, I fail to see how you're better off with a non-lethal way of defending yourself from someone who may very well be trying to kill you.
You have a good point, but disliking firearms for mre than home defense =/= not knowing how to use a firearm. I could use some practice with a revolver (last time I picked on up and pretended to aim it I had one hand on the barrel in front of the chambers), but I know quite a bit about gun safety in general.
Plus, there's nothing quite as satisfying to those raging monkey urges than bashing something with a hard stick.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on February 09, 2010, 07:03:19 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 04:32:22 PM
Freeky couldn't shoot anyone to save her own life. It's just not in her programming.
She might if her monkey was threatened, of course. But she'd be better off with bear spray or a spike.
If my monkey was threatened, all I'd need is my fucking TEETH.
I bet I could weild a hammer or other blunt instrument. It somehow doesn't seem the same as puncturing someone or blowing holes in them, bashing their skulls in.
A blunt instrument to the head would probably stop someone faster than a knife would, but like I said before your best defense is paying attention to your surroundings, having quick access to help and being able to make a quick escape if necessary.
Yes, that is the best option. Thank you, by the way.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on February 09, 2010, 07:42:42 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 07:36:54 PM
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 09, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on February 09, 2010, 05:58:22 PM
you DO know what a Derringer is, right?
it's a single-shot (sometimes two shots in a double-barrel configuration) palm-sized pistol that is meant to ONLY be used at point-blank range.
If you can miss your target when your gun is jammed into the target's guts, well, evolution does not favor you.
Yes, I know what a derringer is. It doesn't matter, when someone is in a life-or-death situation all sorts of shit happens. It's not a simple as you make it sound. That aside, I would trust a derringer much less than I would trust a revolver in terms of reliability and in terms of accidental discharge.
The attitude that just because it's a derringer anyone ought to be able to carry it around safely and be able to use it properly if they absolutely had to is irresponsible. It's still a gun and shouldn't be in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
you missed the part where there's no excuse for not knowing some basic firearm safety in this day and age. Especially since they're not tricky mechanisms, everything you need to know about them in terms of minimizing risk to yourself is pretty much common sense. Remember, I'm not addressing the world at large, this is advice specifically tailored for the superior mutants at PD.com. Also, if the situation truly is life or death, I fail to see how you're better off with a non-lethal way of defending yourself from someone who may very well be trying to kill you.
You have a good point, but disliking firearms for mre than home defense =/= not knowing how to use a firearm. I could use some practice with a revolver (last time I picked on up and pretended to aim it I had one hand on the barrel in front of the chambers), but I know quite a bit about gun safety in general.
Plus, there's nothing quite as satisfying to those raging monkey urges than bashing something with a hard stick.
oh, absolutely. I was addressing AtD's point, which seems to be that you are automatically safer NOT having a gun than having one. That notion is patently bullshit, though the reverse is not automatically true either.
also, in a real life-or-death situation where someone is trying to kill you, given that at that point you are legally justified in ending their life there is pretty much no reason to stop them by less-than-lethal means, as that just leaves them alive and nursing a grudge.
ETA: emphasis on REAL life-or-death situation, as opposed to someone just trying to kick your ass, mug you, etc.
Hit them hard enough with a blunt object in the head, they're just as dead as if you shot them. And with less blood on most occasions.
Or at least, so I hear.
Weapons should be scary. Scary weapons need not be as deadly.
This is why I advocate using sonics, tear gas... Hell, why not a flare gun?
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 10, 2010, 04:38:32 AM
Weapons should be scary. Scary weapons need not be as deadly.
This is why I advocate using sonics, tear gas... Hell, why not a flare gun?
If we're going for scary, I want a flamethrower.
Quote from: Horrendous Foreign Love Stoat on February 10, 2010, 05:27:22 AM
oh. fuck. me. flare gun. . . :eek:
But bring two, because they're single-shot. That way you still have the clout to bluff.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on February 09, 2010, 10:59:06 PM
Hit them hard enough with a blunt object in the head, they're just as dead as if you shot them. And with less blood on most occasions.
Or at least, so I hear.
actually, hitting someone in the head with a baseball bat or similar club-like object will be ALOT bloodier than a single gunshot nearly all of the time. And hitting someone in a fatal spot with a heavy stick while your adrenal gland is dumping is alot harder than it sounds. Also, you need to be within their striking range to hit them with a club, whereas a gunshot, even if not immediately fatal, is likely to stop or slow their advance and buy you time and distance, both of which are incredibly important when you're trying to save your own life.
also, in regards to Felix's post, trying to
scare someone who's trying to kill you is never a good idea. If they found you threatening, they wouldn't have picked you as a target in the first place, and if you try to scare them off all you're probably doing is losing the element of surprise and/or handing them an opportunity to seize the initiative and make a move on you.
remember, survival in a life or death situation isn't about looking cool or sticking to your morals, it's about doing whatever will maximize your chance of surviving.
Hmm. I have a hunch that if the scary isn't working, it's because it's not scary enough.
I used to daydream about making a combined bear spray/taser/boat horn device. I think it's a wicked idea, and I doubt people would keep attacking after a blast of poisoned air, deafening noise and electric shocks.
You're assuming a rational response though. You're assuming methods of escape are available (nothing is more dangerous than a scared, armed person with a percieved lack of options). You're assuming other emotions, like anger, or pre-existing conditions like hunger, can't overrule that fear. You're assuming you are dealing with a sane person. Psychopaths, for example, don't have much in the way of emotion, and tend to disbelieve they will ever come to serious harm.
That's a lot of assumptions to rely on.
Also, yes, head wounds are bloody. Lots of blood goes to the brain remember, since its a pretty vital organ. If an artery or vein is busted cracking a head open, that is going to bleed, a lot.
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 10, 2010, 08:42:49 AM
Hmm. I have a hunch that if the scary isn't working, it's because it's not scary enough.
I used to daydream about making a combined bear spray/taser/boat horn device. I think it's a wicked idea, and I doubt people would keep attacking after a blast of poisoned air, deafening noise and electric shocks.
as far as scary armament goes, i've always thought that being approached by someone with a boxing glove on one hand, and a pistol in the other would be the most ominous...
they have the immediate trump card to end the fight in their favor, but they are saying that they are aiming at a protracted ass kicking.
From a practical standpoint, I have usually assumed that when swinging a club-like weapon, the ideal target range is the knee-to-mid-torso area, due to the size of the target, difficulty of the target to dodge, and greater possibility of temporary incapacitation.
If you aim for the head, chest, or arms, I'm guessing there would be a greater chance for you to miss, or for it to be deflected.
However, I get the feeling that there are people on this board who have done more actual combat than me, so I await their opinions on the matter.
I've had a fair bit of practice hitting people's heads with sticks, so my advice may not be the best here.
The head / neck make a sort of "pocket", a place where any swing from a straight horizontal or slightly downward blow will catch into SOMETHING. Even a hit to the neck can cause decent dissorientation / trauma (guess what everythign has to go through to reach the head!)
A good crack from knees up can have disabling potential, unless your target is drugged or has insane pain tolerance (which adrenaline can provide them). Blowing away a knee can diable. You likely won't break a thigh bone, but again, you can make it hurt liek a bitch.
Arms and shoulder hits can cause breaks or numbness from hitting a nerve, or even rattling everything AROUND said nerve, and take one arm out of the picture for a bit. (Even if you don't break their arm, but hit the radial nerve hard enough, they won't be able to grip for SHIT for a good 30 sec.)
Hit their hands. Small bones, lots of nerves. If they stick it out for you, smack it down.
Ribs can get broke, and a hit to the side / back / underarm area will rattle the kidneys. Again, only the insanely aggor'd, tough, or drugged people are staying standing, since a solid shot here makes it very hard to breathe.
Hits to the neck can even be deadly, depending on what you hit. All the nerves which control your body go through there, after all. Catch one that controls the lungs or heart, for example...
But when it comes to blunt weapons, I only really have experience with the quarterstaff, which is not an everyday item or suitable as a concealed weapon.
My thinking is this: If a guy like me is in a position to be attempting major bodily harm to someone else, then I am in a seriously dangerous situation, and I will be flooded with adrenaline and either bloodthirst or panic.
In that scenario, my aiming skills will be waaaaay off, and going for small targets like hands have a good chance of not landing. What I want is the highest probability that any given strike will land, and that it will be disabling.
I dunno if there's a swing/hit target ratio, and if it can be correlated with a hit/disable ratio, but if there is, I'd like to see it.
Quote from: Cain on February 10, 2010, 03:09:41 PM
Hits to the neck can even be deadly, depending on what you hit. All the nerves which control your body go through there, after all. Catch one that controls the lungs or heart, for example...
But when it comes to blunt weapons, I only really have experience with the quarterstaff, which is not an everyday item or suitable as a concealed weapon.
Yeah, no good way to pass of why you're walking around with one.
A solid hardwood or rattan cane can be brutally effective though. (A knee injury and a weekend of playing Dr. House, and you can make it look like you need it too!) Hold it, tip to the ground, and the almost AUTOMATIC first shot you can take is right to your opponent's crotch.
Males naturally bend forward when hit to the crotch, or even hit NEAR it. A quick moulinet, or cock back like you're going to throw a punch from the hip or shoulder, and you can hit their nicely exposed head with your second shot. (with ANY stick or sword blow too, USE YOUR HIPS TO THROW.)
Question. How difficult is it for the average person to dodge and follow through with an attack at the same time?
Dodge this!
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_95rnffkHSAk/S3LlvcTZB7I/AAAAAAAAAII/GUoxJWgfTQk/s640/hamer.JPG)
ah i remember the old fallout games, where it was possible to use a weapon like this and aim for the eyes.
fairly difficult, and the difficulty increases with lack of practice and/or experience in violent confrontation. If you're absolutely certain that your assailant does not have a lethal close-range weapon at his disposal and your primary concern is ending the fight as quickly as possible, it is frequently advantageous to take a blow in order to give yourself a chance to close and make a crippling counterstrike (punch to the throat is a good one, headbutt is useful if you are taller than your opponent but WILL hurt you as well). Be aware that, though a knee to the groin is a classic move, there are a fair number of people for whom that will NOT be a disabling move. I know this firsthand, as if you kick me in the nuts all its gonna do is REALLY piss me off and make me want to actually HURT someone as opposed to just kicking their ass a little bit. If you have pepper spray, taking a blow from your assailant (not in the head/neck if you can help it) will give you a chance to unload it into their face at point-blank range. Again, this is useful advice only when your opponent's weapon is their fists. If they have a club, don't attempt to take a blow from it in order to swing initiative to your favor.
also, if you get in close, remember that you can tear someone's ear off pretty easily. That will end the fight for all but the most psychotically determined opponents. A downward strike on the collarbone can break that fairly easily and will cause them to lose use of that arm, but that's hard to do properly if you're shorter than your opponent. If you wear boots with any sort of heel (spiked or platform both work), a hard stomp to the top of their foot will probably break most of the bones in their foot which will usually take that leg out of action and in doing so end the fight.
ETA: please to note that none of the advice I have given is theoretical. Many of these moves have saved me from a severe beating or worse.
I have a similar reaction to hitting my head. Thanks for the tips, ECH.
Holy jesus, Regret, I want one!
Quote from: Horrendous Foreign Love Stoat on February 10, 2010, 03:44:45 PM
Quote
In that scenario, my aiming skills will be waaaaay off, and going for small targets like hands have a good chance of not landing. What I want is the highest probability that any given strike will land, and that it will be disabling
I'm a runner not a fighter, but I think in that circumstance you go for the nuts or the eye gouge.
Nuts first. Eyes are much harder to hit unless the opportunity presents itself. IMHO, Hustle is right about everything but heels, regular old boots can work just fine for that too. I would recommend against wearing heals in situations where you don't need to so that you can run. Also, the knees are pretty vulnerable as long as their leg isn't bent.
Keep in mind, however, that if you go overboard on someone you might end up in prison for aggravated assault or murder. Only do as much damage as you have to in order to protect yourself. Obviously if it's life or death do whatever you need to do to preserve your own life, but there are always consequences for your actions (even if you get away with it).
P.S. If they get in real close, throwing elbows can be very effective, but it's going to hurt your elbow.
On second thought, as far as scary/effective goes, it might be worth it just to go for an S&W500 with the 4" barrel.
I've tried it with the full length barrel, and it's recoil is pretty tolerable actually.
this is my scary gun
:D
(http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u337/mtdozier/saiga12.jpg)
FIX IT!
:?
fix?
you mean SBS it?
or get the 20rd drum?
or bayonet?
Can't see it.
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 10, 2010, 08:47:50 PM
Can't see it.
oh...oops, fixt.
and here is my scary mug
(http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u337/mtdozier/P1030012.jpg)
How is it that your hair ALWAYS looks fabulous?
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on February 11, 2010, 12:11:40 AM
How is it that your hair ALWAYS looks fabulous?
Hoppes No. 9
i just got my hairs cut though, so no i have more hair on my chin than scalp...
hey nigel. you are with firearm, i believe... what do you have for crazy preparedness?
Quote from: Iptuous on February 11, 2010, 12:23:31 AM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on February 11, 2010, 12:11:40 AM
How is it that your hair ALWAYS looks fabulous?
Hoppes No. 9
i just got my hairs cut though, so no i have more hair on my chin than scalp...
hey nigel. you are with firearm, i believe... what do you have for crazy preparedness?
I have a .45 pistol and a .22 pistol, and something I can't talk about.
I want to get a .22 and 30.06 rifles for hunting, though, and a new .22 pistol because frankly I am not keen on the one my dad gave me. He's a collector so
everything he has is weird.
Quote from: Horrendous Foreign Love Stoat on February 11, 2010, 01:03:52 AM
guns freak me out.
hoplophobia can be cured through exposure.
if you're in north TX sometime, ring me up, and we'll have fun with extreme prejudice. I'll even break out the Barrett and Tannerite....
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on February 11, 2010, 01:10:15 AM
I have a .45 pistol and a .22 pistol, and something I can't talk about.
I want to get a .22 and 30.06 rifles for hunting, though, and a new .22 pistol because frankly I am not keen on the one my dad gave me. He's a collector so everything he has is weird.
Weird guns are wonderful!
are you going to be the recipient of the collection some day?
Quote from: Iptuous on February 11, 2010, 01:21:00 AM
Quote from: Horrendous Foreign Love Stoat on February 11, 2010, 01:03:52 AM
guns freak me out.
hoplophobia can be cured through exposure.
if you're in north TX sometime, ring me up, and we'll have fun with extreme prejudice. I'll even break out the Barrett and Tannerite....
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on February 11, 2010, 01:10:15 AM
I have a .45 pistol and a .22 pistol, and something I can't talk about.
I want to get a .22 and 30.06 rifles for hunting, though, and a new .22 pistol because frankly I am not keen on the one my dad gave me. He's a collector so everything he has is weird.
Weird guns are wonderful!
are you going to be the recipient of the collection some day?
I think my oldest brother gets the guns, I get the knives.
Iptuous, nice gun.
(LMNuendo.)
Quote from: Horrendous Foreign Love Stoat on February 11, 2010, 01:03:52 AM
guns freak me out.
That's probably a reasonable, measured response to anything that can put glory holes in you.
Did I say glory holes?
Yeah, kinda.
IPPY LOOKS LIKE A LEPRECHAAAAUUN
Ever run a simple cigarette lighter down across someone's face? It hurts just thinking about it.
A lighter clenched in the bottom of your hand when striking with a hammerfist at neck / face / collarbone / temple give the same force a smaller, harder point of impact = more effective, if you buy into that line of thinking.
A lighter as a sorce of flame is useful for a lot more than smoking. Say you need to start a fire, get a bit of light, defrost a lock, seal synthetic chord, sterilize a needle (non hypodermic), light a gas stove or candle....
This is why I try to have 2-3 spread around my bag, room, or work table at all times.
I never thought of lighters. :eek:
Definitely. I'm not so hot on agricultural knowledge, so anyone people I can team up with to work + cross train in this regard will be a necessity.
actually, "hemp" seeds are, pound for pound, one of the most nutritious food substances on earth.
anytime I'm unlucky enough to end up with a bunch of them, I use them in place of peppercorns in a batch of fried potatoes.
(http://imgur.com/Lw3ww.jpg)
repost, but still valuable info.
TTM,
All cock, repost, etc.
Also:
(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/04/500x_stoveyo.jpg) (http://biolitestove.com/Camp_Stove.html)
http://biolitestove.com/Camp_Stove.html
Unibrow McBritishguy shows you how to make a fire in the desert with sticks and such. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiKVq_-ne0Q)
Lanny Henson designs some pretty neat stoves.
Here's one that cooks 7 liters of beans with just over a pound of wood.
http://www.youtube.com/user/lannyplans#p/u/11/6_7eRdIv_oU
It says something about how awesome that design is that I want one even though this guy manages to be an even worse salesman than I am.
He's apparently never published complete designs for any of his unique stoves :argh!:
I have a bunch of beercan stoves. They rock, and only take about a minute to make, with a pocketknife and a penny.
His beercan burner looks pretty standard, its the fancy pots setups I want plans for.
This one in particular would be great for backpacking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMG2PQ4emI
Quote from: Requia ☣ on September 01, 2010, 07:21:41 AM
It says something about how awesome that design is that I want one even though this guy manages to be an even worse salesman than I am.
Thi
SSSS jus
SSSSt in: The way Lanny Hen
SSSon whi
SSSStle
SSSS when he talk
SSSS SSStart
SSS to become
SSSeriou
SSSly di
SSSSturbing after
SSSSSeveral
SSSSecond
SSSSS.
\
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/Jerry_Frankster/200px-DanRather.jpg)
The first step is your physical conditioning.
The next is adjusting to predicted diet. For instance if you are going to store wheat, start using small amounts of ground, cracked, etc wheat in your diet. Otherwise you will have bowels of doom when you do start having to eat it.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 01, 2010, 12:27:39 PM
The first step is your physical conditioning.
The next is adjusting to predicted diet. For instance if you are going to store wheat, start using small amounts of ground, cracked, etc wheat in your diet. Otherwise you will have bowels of doom when you do start having to eat it.
The best way to do it is to simply eat what you store and store what you eat. It's also vastly more economical and your food bill will be ridiculously cheap if you learn to live off staple foods and cook everything from scratch.
I have no intention of storing anything. If civilization and all the neat things that come with it (like painless dentistry, pennicillin, and deviant porn) go away, I'm going with it.
I will, of course, scramble and loot with all the other monkeys until someone tougher or luckier than me eats me, but that's just for cheap kicks.
Because, let's face it, if The Machine™ ever breaks down, life is going to SUCK for the few survivors. Even if whatever it is kills off 80% of the population (not likely, humans are very hard to kill), that still leaves 60+ million people on the end of a pipe that no longer has any food going into it. I don't want to see the way that ends, even if it does clear all the monkeys off of my planet.
It's not going to be Road Warrior, it's going to be Hobbes on crack, and in the end, there will be a few hundred thousand people left, tops, with no tools and no tools to make the tools.
"Stay away from the ruins of the ancients, kid. They're haunted."
- Old Man Billy Bob, 2090CE.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 01, 2010, 10:59:31 PM
I have no intention of storing anything. If civilization and all the neat things that come with it (like painless dentistry, pennicillin, and deviant porn) go away, I'm going with it.
I will, of course, scramble and loot with all the other monkeys until someone tougher or luckier than me eats me, but that's just for cheap kicks.
Because, let's face it, if The Machine™ ever breaks down, life is going to SUCK for the few survivors. Even if whatever it is kills off 80% of the population (not likely, humans are very hard to kill), that still leaves 60+ million people on the end of a pipe that no longer has any food going into it. I don't want to see the way that ends, even if it does clear all the monkeys off of my planet.
It's not going to be Road Warrior, it's going to be Hobbes on crack, and in the end, there will be a few hundred thousand people left, tops, with no tools and no tools to make the tools.
"Stay away from the ruins of the ancients, kid. They're haunted."
- Old Man Billy Bob, 2090CE.
Thats probably a reasonable way to look at it, but I don't want to die. :(
If you got rocks you got tools.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky, HRN on September 02, 2010, 12:59:42 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 01, 2010, 10:59:31 PM
I have no intention of storing anything. If civilization and all the neat things that come with it (like painless dentistry, pennicillin, and deviant porn) go away, I'm going with it.
I will, of course, scramble and loot with all the other monkeys until someone tougher or luckier than me eats me, but that's just for cheap kicks.
Because, let's face it, if The Machine™ ever breaks down, life is going to SUCK for the few survivors. Even if whatever it is kills off 80% of the population (not likely, humans are very hard to kill), that still leaves 60+ million people on the end of a pipe that no longer has any food going into it. I don't want to see the way that ends, even if it does clear all the monkeys off of my planet.
It's not going to be Road Warrior, it's going to be Hobbes on crack, and in the end, there will be a few hundred thousand people left, tops, with no tools and no tools to make the tools.
"Stay away from the ruins of the ancients, kid. They're haunted."
- Old Man Billy Bob, 2090CE.
Thats probably a reasonable way to look at it, but I don't want to die. :(
Who does?
Not me. But on the other hand, I like electric light, the interwebs, etc. After that, trying to catch rats for dinner just doesn't seem like much fun.
I dunno. I think that fighting for survival would kind of eliminate the recipe for getting in a rut.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky, HRN on September 02, 2010, 02:11:04 AM
I dunno. I think that fighting for survival would kind of eliminate the recipe for getting in a rut.
Not really.
Another day, another cleaver fight.
Ho hum.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 02:29:35 AM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky, HRN on September 02, 2010, 02:11:04 AM
I dunno. I think that fighting for survival would kind of eliminate the recipe for getting in a rut.
Not really.
Another day, another cleaver fight.
Ho hum.
Troof....
My admittedly old school opinion is that if my personal survival depends or even relies on another primate then I need to lay down and die.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:15:09 AM
My admittedly old school opinion is that if my personal survival depends or even relies on another primate then I need to lay down and die.
That is pretty old school. I hate people, and I want them off my planet. But then I'd be lonely and hungry, and I'd go, too.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:22:11 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:15:09 AM
My admittedly old school opinion is that if my personal survival depends or even relies on another primate then I need to lay down and die.
That is pretty old school. I hate people, and I want them off my planet. But then I'd be lonely and hungry, and I'd go, too.
I would dance naked through the stinging nettle and cactus while singing Oh! Happy Day.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:27:28 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:22:11 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:15:09 AM
My admittedly old school opinion is that if my personal survival depends or even relies on another primate then I need to lay down and die.
That is pretty old school. I hate people, and I want them off my planet. But then I'd be lonely and hungry, and I'd go, too.
I would dance naked through the stinging nettle and cactus while singing Oh! Happy Day.
Until you realized that you are on a planet with NO BOOBS.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:31:11 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:27:28 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:22:11 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:15:09 AM
My admittedly old school opinion is that if my personal survival depends or even relies on another primate then I need to lay down and die.
That is pretty old school. I hate people, and I want them off my planet. But then I'd be lonely and hungry, and I'd go, too.
I would dance naked through the stinging nettle and cactus while singing Oh! Happy Day.
Until you realized that you are on a planet with NO BOOBS.
I have a spare rib, i will make a boob carrying device.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:40:30 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:31:11 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:27:28 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:22:11 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:15:09 AM
My admittedly old school opinion is that if my personal survival depends or even relies on another primate then I need to lay down and die.
That is pretty old school. I hate people, and I want them off my planet. But then I'd be lonely and hungry, and I'd go, too.
I would dance naked through the stinging nettle and cactus while singing Oh! Happy Day.
Until you realized that you are on a planet with NO BOOBS.
I have a spare rib, i will make a boob carrying device.
NOT THE SAME.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:40:55 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:40:30 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:31:11 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:27:28 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:22:11 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 02, 2010, 03:15:09 AM
My admittedly old school opinion is that if my personal survival depends or even relies on another primate then I need to lay down and die.
That is pretty old school. I hate people, and I want them off my planet. But then I'd be lonely and hungry, and I'd go, too.
I would dance naked through the stinging nettle and cactus while singing Oh! Happy Day.
Until you realized that you are on a planet with NO BOOBS.
I have a spare rib, i will make a boob carrying device.
NOT THE SAME.
Please to not shit on my personal fantasy. :lulz:
Quote from: Remington on September 02, 2010, 03:49:49 AM
Quote from: Cudgel on September 02, 2010, 01:03:00 AM
If you got a brain you got tools.
Fixed.
I CAN HAZ POAST APOCALYPSE?
\
(http://www.fullissue.com/wp-content/uploads/hawking.jpg)
Quote from: Remington on September 02, 2010, 03:49:49 AM
Quote from: Cudgel on September 02, 2010, 01:03:00 AM
If you got a brain and the ability to manipulate the physical world you got tools can make tools to make tools.
Fixed.
double fixt
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 03:54:18 AM
Quote from: Remington on September 02, 2010, 03:49:49 AM
Quote from: Cudgel on September 02, 2010, 01:03:00 AM
If you got a brain you got tools.
Fixed.
I CAN HAZ POAST APOCALYPSE?
\
(http://www.fullissue.com/wp-content/uploads/hawking.jpg)
Truth is, with my dependence on medicine and general health I'm fucked.
Plan B is to jack a round in the chamber and see who gets to go with me.
Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieve it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas