Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Cain on October 18, 2012, 06:10:40 pm

Title: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Cain on October 18, 2012, 06:10:40 pm
Bored, bored bored.  Let's see what stupid stuff is being said at the Weekly Standard which I can mock

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/decline-and-fall_654827.html

Quote
When The Decline and Fall of the American Republic is written centuries hence, the date October 17, 2012, will occupy a prominent place in the narrative. On this day, a playoff game between the Yankees and the Tigers in Detroit was called not because of rain, but because of … the threat of rain. Just as today’s “liberalism has become hardly more than a trembling in the presence of illiberalism,” so, in Obama’s America, Major League Baseball cancels games not because of rain but because of trembling in the presence of the threat of rain.

 :um:

wat

:ohnotache:
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on October 18, 2012, 07:04:18 pm
The hypertext in the article that was supposed to explain "liberalism trembling in the face of iliberalism" took me to this:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/liberalism-manic-depressive_654407.html

Wat  :lulz:
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 18, 2012, 07:23:19 pm
Actually, I see the point he's trying to make, and it seems valid to me.

The left is a gigantic set of playground wimps that hasten to tell you that they're left-leaning or bipartisan or whatever the fuck excuse they have this week for being GREAT BIG SISSIES.  Liberals SHIT THEIR PANTS when in the presence of conservatives, because they have bought the conservative's narrative.  While individuals may be different, the "left" as a whole is absolutely fucking useless.  I shit on them from a great height.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: LMNO on October 18, 2012, 07:40:02 pm
Today's "liberals" are the primary reason the Overton Window has moved so sharply right.  Instead of drawing a line and saying, 'fuck THAT', they actively "reach across the aisle", not realizing that the right wing is just STANDING there, making the libs come to them and calling that "middle ground".
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 18, 2012, 07:46:52 pm
Today's "liberals" are the primary reason the Overton Window has moved so sharply right.  Instead of drawing a line and saying, 'fuck THAT', they actively "reach across the aisle", not realizing that the right wing is just STANDING there, making the libs come to them and calling that "middle ground".

And this is why Romney now stands a pretty good chance of being elected.  Liberals are either disgusted by Obama's weak sister act and won't be bothered, or they're PURISTS and can't bring themselves to vote for Obama because he is a great deal less than perfect.

And they're going to get every fucking thing they deserve.  The only thing keeping me from laughing is that a whole lot of people I know who DON'T deserve it live on the soft side of the economy (Nigel, my friend Hat, and others) are going to suffer with them.

Shitballs.  Every last motherfucker in this country.   I hope the Goddamn thing breaks off and slides into the ocean.  Christ, I fucking hate people.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: LMNO on October 18, 2012, 07:54:36 pm
How the hell did the Right get all the people who can create effective narratives?
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 18, 2012, 07:59:06 pm
How the hell did the Right get all the people who can create effective narratives?

They aren't effective narratives.  The left is just weak and LAZY.  And their constituents are WORSE.  ANY excuse to beg off from maybe GETTING OFF THEIR ARSES AND VOTING, much less getting involved.  Their parents and grandparents smoked dope in the 60s, so they think their work is fucking done.

A plague on all cowards.  Wait.  I don't NEED to say that, because it's COMING ANYWAY, to a nation full of people who either want to vote for Romney because he looks all alpha male, or are too fucking hip to vote for a guy whose feet are made out of clay.

FUCK 'EM ALL.  DIE, BASTARDS!

Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: LMNO on October 18, 2012, 08:01:14 pm
Ok, so how did the left get all the lazy cowards?

What I mean is, if it's a two-man con, why does one side get a larger share of ineffectual fuckups?
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on October 18, 2012, 08:02:39 pm
How the hell did the Right get all the people who can create effective narratives?

They aren't effective narratives.  The left is just weak and LAZY.  And their constituents are WORSE.  ANY excuse to beg off from maybe GETTING OFF THEIR ARSES AND VOTING, much less getting involved.  Their parents and grandparents smoked dope in the 60s, so they think their work is fucking done.

A plague on all cowards.  Wait.  I don't NEED to say that, because it's COMING ANYWAY, to a nation full of people who either want to vote for Romney because he looks all alpha male, or are too fucking hip to vote for a guy whose feet are made out of clay.

FUCK 'EM ALL.  DIE, BASTARDS!



This. Because the only thing between us and Romney is Obama, drone strikes or no.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 18, 2012, 08:05:32 pm
Ok, so how did the left get all the lazy cowards?

Quote
Their parents and grandparents smoked dope in the 60s, so they think their work is fucking done.

Also, too busy trying to look so fucking hip they can't be bothered with the game.

Quote
What I mean is, if it's a two-man con, why does one side get a larger share of ineffectual fuckups?

I love this shit.  Two man con.

Obama:  Drones.

Romney:  Drones, plus FUCKING YOU UP THE ASS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE KOCH BROTHERS.

Which is worse?  The guy who's fucking you one way, or the guy who's fucking you that same way plus FIVE HUNDRED OTHER WAYS.

It's the difference between "bad" and "worse", and the fact that this is somehow unclear to a gigantic chunk of our "left" citizens is infuriating in a way that's difficult to describe.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 18, 2012, 08:06:44 pm
How the hell did the Right get all the people who can create effective narratives?

They aren't effective narratives.  The left is just weak and LAZY.  And their constituents are WORSE.  ANY excuse to beg off from maybe GETTING OFF THEIR ARSES AND VOTING, much less getting involved.  Their parents and grandparents smoked dope in the 60s, so they think their work is fucking done.

A plague on all cowards.  Wait.  I don't NEED to say that, because it's COMING ANYWAY, to a nation full of people who either want to vote for Romney because he looks all alpha male, or are too fucking hip to vote for a guy whose feet are made out of clay.

FUCK 'EM ALL.  DIE, BASTARDS!



This. Because the only thing between us and Romney is Obama, drone strikes or no.

No, the only thing between you and all these teabagger fucksticks with their fucked up legislation (killing unruly children, making women property, etc) is Obama.  Not that he's trying really hard...But Romney will ASSIST this shit.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on October 18, 2012, 08:12:56 pm
Ok, so how did the left get all the lazy cowards?

What I mean is, if it's a two-man con, why does one side get a larger share of ineffectual fuckups?

Part of it could be just having more money and support. People who are good at controlling the narrative like Frank Luntz and Lee Atawater are the types who dont really have any values other than making money. Im sure if left leaning groups had access to the kinds of media exposure and spin doctoring the right has the situation would be very different.

And if you want to get a little tinfoilish, Tragedy and Hope claims that:

Quote
More than fifty years ago, the Morgan firm decided to infiltrate the Left-wing political movements of the United States. This was relatively easy to do since these groups were starved for funds and eager for a voice to reach the people. Wall Street supplied both. The purpose was not to destroy, dominate or take over but was really three-fold:

1) to keep informed about the Left-wing or liberal groups;

2) to provide them with a mouthpiece so they could blow off steam;

3) to have a final "veto" on their actions if they ever went radical. There was nothing really new about this decision, since other financiers had talked about it and even attempted it earlier.

The best example of the alliance of Wall Street and Left-wing publication was "The New Republic" a magazine founded in 1914 by Willard Straight using Payne Whitney money. The original purpose for establishing the paper was to provide an outlet for the progressive Left and to guide it in an Anglophile direction. This latter task was entrusted to Walter Lippmann.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 18, 2012, 08:21:05 pm
Obama:  Drone strikes.

Romney:  Drones strikes plus land war in Iran.

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: LMNO on October 18, 2012, 08:24:56 pm
Look, for all I hate about Obama, I fully know that Romney would do all the same, and add in much worse stuff.  I'm voting Obama. 

But what's it going to take, in a pragmatic sense, to pull the Window back to the left?
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 18, 2012, 08:28:33 pm
Look, for all I hate about Obama, I fully know that Romney would do all the same, and add in much worse stuff.  I'm voting Obama. 

But what's it going to take, in a pragmatic sense, to pull the Window back to the left?

312,000,000 people floating face down in the ocean.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on October 18, 2012, 10:32:31 pm
I would vote for obama myself if my vote actually mattered in this election. Now this doesnt mean i wont vote- it just means that my vote for obama would be just as effective here as it would be if i lived in seguin. If i lived in dayton it would be a different story entirely and i wouldnt even entertain the thought of voting for stein. But the way i see it is supporting greens in a solidly blue state can help show the dems that they cant move farther right. The other part of it is that centrists (who the right consider liberal) need to be convinced to stand their ground too.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Roly Poly Oly-Garch on October 19, 2012, 12:22:22 am
Today's "liberals" are the primary reason the Overton Window has moved so sharply right.  Instead of drawing a line and saying, 'fuck THAT', they actively "reach across the aisle", not realizing that the right wing is just STANDING there, making the libs come to them and calling that "middle ground".

And this is why Romney now stands a pretty good chance of being elected.  Liberals are either disgusted by Obama's weak sister act and won't be bothered, or they're PURISTS and can't bring themselves to vote for Obama because he is a great deal less than perfect.


False alternative.

There's a whole school, consisting of me and maybe some others, who've noticed that every time something remotely resembling a leftward push threatens to happen in this country, that's precisely when the wingnuts start getting stupid amounts of exposure.

Seems to me that if the elephant in the room is about to get exposed, the best way to prevent that is to start swinging axes at the folks looking in that direction. So yeah, we've got this massive wealth gap getting larger everyday. There's this war on terror that we're using to justify "small sacrifices of constitutional liberties" but only for the duration of hostilities (whatever the fuck that means). There's an emerging yet already massive prison industrial complex and a particularly dire state of energy dependence staring down the barrel of an almost dry well. Maybe we should think abou--

HOLY FUCKING SHIT HERE COME'S MITT AND HE'S AFTER YOUR FOOD STAMPS AND VAGINAS.

I can't help thinking that maybe if we stopped acting as expected every fucking time that ploy is pulled, maybe 8, 12, 16 years from now we'll be debating whether to invest in more wind farms or more hydro, instead of debating whether or not to have the fucking year 1592 again.

I'm wearing my foil hat proudly when I say this, but to my mind voting bad just cause we think there's worse out there is as much a vote for worse as it is for bad. Cause the only way we're gonna keep voting for bad, is if we keep being presented with worse. And what's the surest way to keep even free thinkers nice and predictable??? Permanent crisis mode.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 12:29:06 am
In other words- refuse to vote against someone and while doing that try to bring the flip flopper further left?

I like the idea of sending the message to the gop "look dude you can win this election if you like but the demographics are pushing in this direction. lest ye be marginalized maybe you should come this way instead of trying to sail on a sinking ship" but how do we get that to work?
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Roly Poly Oly-Garch on October 19, 2012, 12:41:39 am
In other words- refuse to vote against someone and while doing that try to bring the flip flopper further left?

I like the idea of sending the message to the gop "look dude you can win this election if you like but the demographics are pushing in this direction. lest ye be marginalized maybe you should come this way instead of trying to sail on a sinking ship" but how do we get that to work?

Just push in that direction, I would think....and at some point be willing to smash a fucker in the face with a brick if they try to stop you.

Remember, for all the eloquence of Martin Luther King, Jr, it wasn't until the national guard stood there with guns that his movement was even able to have a march without getting their skulls cracked.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 12:47:29 am
I guess my confusion is what you mean by push and who to smash with a brick and how literal samsh and brick are (i am a pacifist unless defense of myself or another is involved). Im getting the concept but not the details or execution.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 19, 2012, 12:48:40 am
Ok, so how did the left get all the lazy cowards?

What I mean is, if it's a two-man con, why does one side get a larger share of ineffectual fuckups?

You seem to be conflating "Democrats" and the Left. The actual Left doesn't GET any media play.

What would the two-man con be if one side wasn't (perceived as) an ineffectual fuckup? Think Laurel and Hardy.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 19, 2012, 12:52:05 am
Today's "liberals" are the primary reason the Overton Window has moved so sharply right.  Instead of drawing a line and saying, 'fuck THAT', they actively "reach across the aisle", not realizing that the right wing is just STANDING there, making the libs come to them and calling that "middle ground".

And this is why Romney now stands a pretty good chance of being elected.  Liberals are either disgusted by Obama's weak sister act and won't be bothered, or they're PURISTS and can't bring themselves to vote for Obama because he is a great deal less than perfect.


False alternative.

There's a whole school, consisting of me and maybe some others, who've noticed that every time something remotely resembling a leftward push threatens to happen in this country, that's precisely when the wingnuts start getting stupid amounts of exposure.

Seems to me that if the elephant in the room is about to get exposed, the best way to prevent that is to start swinging axes at the folks looking in that direction. So yeah, we've got this massive wealth gap getting larger everyday. There's this war on terror that we're using to justify "small sacrifices of constitutional liberties" but only for the duration of hostilities (whatever the fuck that means). There's an emerging yet already massive prison industrial complex and a particularly dire state of energy dependence staring down the barrel of an almost dry well. Maybe we should think abou--

HOLY FUCKING SHIT HERE COME'S MITT AND HE'S AFTER YOUR FOOD STAMPS AND VAGINAS.

I can't help thinking that maybe if we stopped acting as expected every fucking time that ploy is pulled, maybe 8, 12, 16 years from now we'll be debating whether to invest in more wind farms or more hydro, instead of debating whether or not to have the fucking year 1592 again.

I'm wearing my foil hat proudly when I say this, but to my mind voting bad just cause we think there's worse out there is as much a vote for worse as it is for bad. Cause the only way we're gonna keep voting for bad, is if we keep being presented with worse. And what's the surest way to keep even free thinkers nice and predictable??? Permanent crisis mode.

I believe this to be the correct motorcycle.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 12:55:28 am
Thats why i vote democrat when i find it necessary. Im a liberal leftist which rules me out as being a democrat in the first place since the dems are a right of center party in any country not using the imperial system of measurements
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 12:57:17 am
Twid,
political barometer is on the more logical metric system
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 01:04:50 am
And actually politics arent one dimensional either. I call myself a liberal leftist for a reason. I am neither conservative nor rightwing. I consider liberal to mean willingness to experiment with legislation. I consider leftist to mean left when it comes to social and economic policy. Teabaggers are liberals. Liberal rightwingers.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 01:06:10 am
Dems by comparison are conservative leftists.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Roly Poly Oly-Garch on October 19, 2012, 01:43:32 am
I guess my confusion is what you mean by push and who to smash with a brick and how literal samsh and brick are (i am a pacifist unless defense of myself or another is involved). Im getting the concept but not the details or execution.

Push would mean simply voting for the candidate who represents you, patronizing businesses that represent you, supporting movements that represent you.

Smashing faces with bricks is anything your conscience will allow up to and including literally smashing faces with bricks. It basically means being willing to mitigate the threats posed by the wrong people holding us hostage under the law by being willing to say fuck the law if necessary. It means planned parenthood being willing to go rogue. Big Bird broadcast on pirate wave-lengths. Foreclosed upon home-owners staying put.

Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 02:41:44 am
I guess my confusion is what you mean by push and who to smash with a brick and how literal samsh and brick are (i am a pacifist unless defense of myself or another is involved). Im getting the concept but not the details or execution.

Push would mean simply voting for the candidate who represents you, patronizing businesses that represent you, supporting movements that represent you.

Smashing faces with bricks is anything your conscience will allow up to and including literally smashing faces with bricks. It basically means being willing to mitigate the threats posed by the wrong people holding us hostage under the law by being willing to say fuck the law if necessary. It means planned parenthood being willing to go rogue. Big Bird broadcast on pirate wave-lengths. Foreclosed upon home-owners staying put.

Well, considering I only disagree with Stein on one thing (nuclear energy), I'm voting for the right person.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Cain on October 19, 2012, 09:06:24 am
Actually, I see the point he's trying to make, and it seems valid to me.

The left is a gigantic set of playground wimps that hasten to tell you that they're left-leaning or bipartisan or whatever the fuck excuse they have this week for being GREAT BIG SISSIES.  Liberals SHIT THEIR PANTS when in the presence of conservatives, because they have bought the conservative's narrative.  While individuals may be different, the "left" as a whole is absolutely fucking useless.  I shit on them from a great height.

I think his point is the Republic is doomed because Obama has pussified America so it is afraid of rain.

Cain,
textual literalist.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on October 19, 2012, 10:35:19 am
Today's "liberals" are the primary reason the Overton Window has moved so sharply right.  Instead of drawing a line and saying, 'fuck THAT', they actively "reach across the aisle", not realizing that the right wing is just STANDING there, making the libs come to them and calling that "middle ground".

And this is why Romney now stands a pretty good chance of being elected.  Liberals are either disgusted by Obama's weak sister act and won't be bothered, or they're PURISTS and can't bring themselves to vote for Obama because he is a great deal less than perfect.


False alternative.

There's a whole school, consisting of me and maybe some others, who've noticed that every time something remotely resembling a leftward push threatens to happen in this country, that's precisely when the wingnuts start getting stupid amounts of exposure.

Seems to me that if the elephant in the room is about to get exposed, the best way to prevent that is to start swinging axes at the folks looking in that direction. So yeah, we've got this massive wealth gap getting larger everyday. There's this war on terror that we're using to justify "small sacrifices of constitutional liberties" but only for the duration of hostilities (whatever the fuck that means). There's an emerging yet already massive prison industrial complex and a particularly dire state of energy dependence staring down the barrel of an almost dry well. Maybe we should think abou--

HOLY FUCKING SHIT HERE COME'S MITT AND HE'S AFTER YOUR FOOD STAMPS AND VAGINAS.

I can't help thinking that maybe if we stopped acting as expected every fucking time that ploy is pulled, maybe 8, 12, 16 years from now we'll be debating whether to invest in more wind farms or more hydro, instead of debating whether or not to have the fucking year 1592 again.

I'm wearing my foil hat proudly when I say this, but to my mind voting bad just cause we think there's worse out there is as much a vote for worse as it is for bad. Cause the only way we're gonna keep voting for bad, is if we keep being presented with worse. And what's the surest way to keep even free thinkers nice and predictable??? Permanent crisis mode.

Shhhh! You're spoiling democracy for the true believers :argh!:
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Verbal Mike on October 19, 2012, 12:05:48 pm
Oddly enough, there's a very similar discussion going on in leftist circles in Israel, despite the fact that we basically have a multi-party system. People who are left of center end up voting closer to the center than they'd like just to make sure their vote gets counted. But in Israel as in the US, not voting doesn't empower anybody. It just allows your perspective to continue being ignored. Of course the system is geared to encourage this. In the US more than Israel, I'd say. Voting doesn't make anything better, but not voting contributes to things going the way they're going already. I think the only solution is to vote for a party that has more than a snowball's chance in hell and focussing your energy on changing things outside the electoral system. Voting is just putting your finger in the dam. You still have to work on repairing that hole or pushing back the tide, and that requires real work, not just putting a piece of paper in a box.

BTW, in Israel there's a significant movement of lefties registering in Likkud (the big right-wing party) in order to participate in primaries and try to keep them from veering off too far to the right. They then vote for a leftist party come real elections. It's a response to right-wing extremists (settlers) who do the same thing, except come elections they vote for the outright fascists, whom their plants in Likkud give a place in government. In America you have the Tea Party doing that kind of thing to the GOP, and I wonder why no lefties have registered as Republicans to sabotage that effort (or maybe they have and I haven't heard of them). Probably because of how entrenched partisan lines are and because of the idealistic hope that if the GOP goes off the far end they'll never win an election again. And I think we're starting to see that people are way too stupid to be expected to act that way. The GOP has for a long time been really bad for most of its voters and outright crazy, but they manage to win some races anyway because their tactics aren't based on sound policy. Even their politics aren't based on policy.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Verbal Mike on October 19, 2012, 01:14:44 pm
Whoops, just found out that changes to primaries rules in Likkud preclude all of those leftie infiltrators from even participating.:horrormirth::lulz:
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Roly Poly Oly-Garch on October 19, 2012, 03:25:26 pm
I know of at least a few votes for Santorum in the primaries that were maybe not quite genuine.

Of course the hope there was to get a Santorum v Obama general...not to push Mitt to the right.

Whoops.
 :evilmad:
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Roly Poly Oly-Garch on October 19, 2012, 03:30:39 pm
Actually, I see the point he's trying to make, and it seems valid to me.

The left is a gigantic set of playground wimps that hasten to tell you that they're left-leaning or bipartisan or whatever the fuck excuse they have this week for being GREAT BIG SISSIES.  Liberals SHIT THEIR PANTS when in the presence of conservatives, because they have bought the conservative's narrative.  While individuals may be different, the "left" as a whole is absolutely fucking useless.  I shit on them from a great height.

I think his point is the Republic is doomed because Obama has pussified America so it is afraid of rain.

Cain,
textual literalist.

Typical. W spends 8 years turning America into a bunch of sissy-la-las and then everyone wants to blame Obama cause he can't restore America's cajones in 4 years.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 19, 2012, 04:10:22 pm
Today's "liberals" are the primary reason the Overton Window has moved so sharply right.  Instead of drawing a line and saying, 'fuck THAT', they actively "reach across the aisle", not realizing that the right wing is just STANDING there, making the libs come to them and calling that "middle ground".

And this is why Romney now stands a pretty good chance of being elected.  Liberals are either disgusted by Obama's weak sister act and won't be bothered, or they're PURISTS and can't bring themselves to vote for Obama because he is a great deal less than perfect.


False alternative.

There's a whole school, consisting of me and maybe some others, who've noticed that every time something remotely resembling a leftward push threatens to happen in this country, that's precisely when the wingnuts start getting stupid amounts of exposure.

Seems to me that if the elephant in the room is about to get exposed, the best way to prevent that is to start swinging axes at the folks looking in that direction. So yeah, we've got this massive wealth gap getting larger everyday. There's this war on terror that we're using to justify "small sacrifices of constitutional liberties" but only for the duration of hostilities (whatever the fuck that means). There's an emerging yet already massive prison industrial complex and a particularly dire state of energy dependence staring down the barrel of an almost dry well. Maybe we should think abou--

HOLY FUCKING SHIT HERE COME'S MITT AND HE'S AFTER YOUR FOOD STAMPS AND VAGINAS.

I can't help thinking that maybe if we stopped acting as expected every fucking time that ploy is pulled, maybe 8, 12, 16 years from now we'll be debating whether to invest in more wind farms or more hydro, instead of debating whether or not to have the fucking year 1592 again.

I'm wearing my foil hat proudly when I say this, but to my mind voting bad just cause we think there's worse out there is as much a vote for worse as it is for bad. Cause the only way we're gonna keep voting for bad, is if we keep being presented with worse. And what's the surest way to keep even free thinkers nice and predictable??? Permanent crisis mode.

Enjoy your war in Iran.

ETA:  Oh, yeah.  You won't be going.  My kids will.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Cain on October 19, 2012, 04:39:36 pm
War in Iran is a question of "when", not "if".

Bibi's gonna take that decision out of the hands of the US Presidency, regardless of who is in charge.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 19, 2012, 04:42:54 pm
War in Iran is a question of "when", not "if".

Bibi's gonna take that decision out of the hands of the US Presidency, regardless of who is in charge.

We'll see.  If Obama is reelected, we may have the war in the next 4 years.

If Romney is elected we WILL have that war in the next 2 years.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Cain on October 19, 2012, 04:56:57 pm
It'll be whenever the US Presidency is in the least advantageous place to resist an Israeli call to action.

Ironically, Obama is weaker and more open to attack than Romney on this issue politically, though Romney's own biases and psychological weaknesses mean things are probably even.  Obama's got a rep as an "Israel-hater" for the high crime of thinking Bibi is an arse (which makes about 1/3 of all Israelis self-loathing antisemites), meaning if Israel manufactures a crisis with Iran, he's got more to prove in order to be on the side of public opinion.  Republicans are assumed to be pro-Israeli, and so can actually snub them now and then, though Romney's pathological desire to pander to the base means he likely wont.

The Gulf states are also putting pressure on America, too, and that pressure crosses party lines.  Disturbing whispers on Wall Street suggest a "military stimulus" might be enough to drag the US out of recession.  Obama has shown he's not historically capable of standing up to either interest group very much.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 19, 2012, 05:05:33 pm
It'll be whenever the US Presidency is in the least advantageous place to resist an Israeli call to action.

Ironically, Obama is weaker and more open to attack than Romney on this issue politically, though Romney's own biases and psychological weaknesses mean things are probably even.  Obama's got a rep as an "Israel-hater" for the high crime of thinking Bibi is an arse (which makes about 1/3 of all Israelis self-loathing antisemites), meaning if Israel manufactures a crisis with Iran, he's got more to prove in order to be on the side of public opinion.  Republicans are assumed to be pro-Israeli, and so can actually snub them now and then, though Romney's pathological desire to pander to the base means he likely wont.

The Gulf states are also putting pressure on America, too, and that pressure crosses party lines.  Disturbing whispers on Wall Street suggest a "military stimulus" might be enough to drag the US out of recession.  Obama has shown he's not historically capable of standing up to either interest group very much.

Thing is, he won't have to worry about reelection after November.  IIRC, Clinton grew a pair in his second term (he sure as fuck didn't have any in his first term).  So public opinion might not be as important.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: BabylonHoruv on October 20, 2012, 03:32:02 am
Oddly enough, there's a very similar discussion going on in leftist circles in Israel, despite the fact that we basically have a multi-party system. People who are left of center end up voting closer to the center than they'd like just to make sure their vote gets counted. But in Israel as in the US, not voting doesn't empower anybody. It just allows your perspective to continue being ignored. Of course the system is geared to encourage this. In the US more than Israel, I'd say. Voting doesn't make anything better, but not voting contributes to things going the way they're going already. I think the only solution is to vote for a party that has more than a snowball's chance in hell and focussing your energy on changing things outside the electoral system. Voting is just putting your finger in the dam. You still have to work on repairing that hole or pushing back the tide, and that requires real work, not just putting a piece of paper in a box.

BTW, in Israel there's a significant movement of lefties registering in Likkud (the big right-wing party) in order to participate in primaries and try to keep them from veering off too far to the right. They then vote for a leftist party come real elections. It's a response to right-wing extremists (settlers) who do the same thing, except come elections they vote for the outright fascists, whom their plants in Likkud give a place in government. In America you have the Tea Party doing that kind of thing to the GOP, and I wonder why no lefties have registered as Republicans to sabotage that effort (or maybe they have and I haven't heard of them). Probably because of how entrenched partisan lines are and because of the idealistic hope that if the GOP goes off the far end they'll never win an election again. And I think we're starting to see that people are way too stupid to be expected to act that way. The GOP has for a long time been really bad for most of its voters and outright crazy, but they manage to win some races anyway because their tactics aren't based on sound policy. Even their politics aren't based on policy.

I'm a registered Republican for that reason.  I tend to get idealist and do stupid things like vote for Ron Paul though.  I have yet to vote for a Republican in the general election.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on October 20, 2012, 03:38:19 am
How the hell did the Right get all the people who can create effective narratives?

They aren't effective narratives.  The left is just weak and LAZY.  And their constituents are WORSE.  ANY excuse to beg off from maybe GETTING OFF THEIR ARSES AND VOTING, much less getting involved.  Their parents and grandparents smoked dope in the 60s, so they think their work is fucking done.

A plague on all cowards.  Wait.  I don't NEED to say that, because it's COMING ANYWAY, to a nation full of people who either want to vote for Romney because he looks all alpha male, or are too fucking hip to vote for a guy whose feet are made out of clay.

FUCK 'EM ALL.  DIE, BASTARDS!



This. Because the only thing between us and Romney is Obama, drone strikes or no.

No, the only thing between you and all these teabagger fucksticks with their fucked up legislation (killing unruly children, making women property, etc) is Obama.  Not that he's trying really hard...But Romney will ASSIST this shit.

Permission to quote with attribution?
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: inode_buddha on October 20, 2012, 03:45:44 am
It'll be whenever the US Presidency is in the least advantageous place to resist an Israeli call to action.

Ironically, Obama is weaker and more open to attack than Romney on this issue politically, though Romney's own biases and psychological weaknesses mean things are probably even.  Obama's got a rep as an "Israel-hater" for the high crime of thinking Bibi is an arse (which makes about 1/3 of all Israelis self-loathing antisemites), meaning if Israel manufactures a crisis with Iran, he's got more to prove in order to be on the side of public opinion.  Republicans are assumed to be pro-Israeli, and so can actually snub them now and then, though Romney's pathological desire to pander to the base means he likely wont.

The Gulf states are also putting pressure on America, too, and that pressure crosses party lines.  Disturbing whispers on Wall Street suggest a "military stimulus" might be enough to drag the US out of recession.  Obama has shown he's not historically capable of standing up to either interest group very much.

Thing is, he won't have to worry about reelection after November.  IIRC, Clinton grew a pair in his second term (he sure as fuck didn't have any in his first term).  So public opinion might not be as important.

Monica Lewinsky had more President in her than Romney ever will. However I think he *will* start shit in the MidEast. Mainly due to his strong judeo-christian prejudices.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 20, 2012, 04:07:29 am
I tend to get idealist and do stupid things like vote for Ron Paul though. 

Tell us about that, BH...Which "ideals" of his do you support?  His racism?  His hatred for articles I, II, and VI of the US constitution?  His seemingly unlimited capacity for hucksterism?

Fucking chump.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 20, 2012, 04:07:56 am
How the hell did the Right get all the people who can create effective narratives?

They aren't effective narratives.  The left is just weak and LAZY.  And their constituents are WORSE.  ANY excuse to beg off from maybe GETTING OFF THEIR ARSES AND VOTING, much less getting involved.  Their parents and grandparents smoked dope in the 60s, so they think their work is fucking done.

A plague on all cowards.  Wait.  I don't NEED to say that, because it's COMING ANYWAY, to a nation full of people who either want to vote for Romney because he looks all alpha male, or are too fucking hip to vote for a guy whose feet are made out of clay.

FUCK 'EM ALL.  DIE, BASTARDS!



This. Because the only thing between us and Romney is Obama, drone strikes or no.

No, the only thing between you and all these teabagger fucksticks with their fucked up legislation (killing unruly children, making women property, etc) is Obama.  Not that he's trying really hard...But Romney will ASSIST this shit.

Permission to quote with attribution?

Go nuts.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 20, 2012, 04:12:54 am
I tend to get idealist and do stupid things like vote for Ron Paul though. 

Tell us about that, BH...Which "ideals" of his do you support?  His racism?  His hatred for articles I, II, and VI of the US constitution?  His seemingly unlimited capacity for hucksterism?

Fucking chump.

Oh, wait.  Maybe you like his "ideals" like "brown babies can't be citizens" or "women are property".
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on October 20, 2012, 04:15:15 am
Go nuts.

Thanks!

And I think BH just likes the idea of a big old body pile.  :x
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 20, 2012, 04:17:21 am
Go nuts.

Thanks!

And I think BH just likes the idea of a big old body pile.  :x

Or of hurling Hispanic babies over the border fence.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 20, 2012, 05:25:19 am
I tend to get idealist and do stupid things like vote for Ron Paul though. 

Tell us about that, BH...Which "ideals" of his do you support?  His racism?  His hatred for articles I, II, and VI of the US constitution?  His seemingly unlimited capacity for hucksterism?

Fucking chump.

Oh, wait.  Maybe you like his "ideals" like "brown babies can't be citizens" or "women are property".

It's probably that his self-loathing endorses the ideal of the uninsured like himself being allowed to die of preventable causes. Or maybe it's his schadenfreude for people who are employed but uninsured because our public policy has a huge gap for people who actually work but don't qualify for employer-based insurance, and because they work, don't qualify for medicaid.

"LOL, you worked, sucker, unlike me, and died of preventable causes anyway because you made too much money for Medicaid! If this were a Libertarian society, I would be rich instead of on Welfare! I'm superior because I'm a Libertarian on the Welfare teat!"
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: BabylonHoruv on October 20, 2012, 07:13:25 am
It's more that he'd bring ideas to the table that the other candidates won't touch.  Sure, I disagree with 75% of what Ron Paul has to say, he is a republican, but the remaining 25% is stuff that no major party candidate would consider saying.  He's opposed to both the drug war and drone strikes.

I also can't see any of his really wacky ideas, like the gold standard or completely dismantling the social safety nets, actually happening.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on October 20, 2012, 07:23:59 am
It's more that he'd bring ideas to the table that the other candidates won't touch.  Sure, I disagree with 75% of what Ron Paul has to say, he is a republican, but the remaining 25% is stuff that no major party candidate would consider saying.  He's opposed to both the drug war and drone strikes.

I also can't see any of his really wacky ideas, like the gold standard or completely dismantling the social safety nets, actually happening.

The 25% of shit Ron Paul says that makes sense is more than covered by other fringe candidates who have zero chance of impacting an election. There are plenty of people to choose from to achieve the same net benefit of Ron Paul, without resorting to a racist old fuck like him.
Title: Re: The Fall of the Republic has been delayed due to the possibility of rain
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 20, 2012, 11:30:57 am
I also can't help wondering just how much of the "Democrats are ineffectual" narrative is what we're supposed to buy into. I'm guessing most of it. It's a two-man con, after all.