https://ssl.capwiz.com/aclu/issues/alert/?alertid=63110936&type=ST
QuoteTennessee: Stop the So-Called "Religious Viewpoints Antidiscrimination Act"
While purporting to prevent discrimination against students expressing religious viewpoints, SB 1793/HB 1547 crosses the line from protecting religious freedom into creating systematic imposition of some students' personal religious viewpoints on other students.
Students' right to express and practice their own religious faith in the public schools is already well-protected by the U.S. Constitution and existing law, so the portions of this bill allowing students to start religious clubs and to voluntarily pray and express religious viewpoints, are unnecessary.
But this bill also encourages religious coercion, requiring local school boards to establish a system for selecting student speakers and allow those students to express their beliefs about religion in a variety of inappropriate settings, from the classroom to school-day assemblies and school events. Should this pass, students with a range of religious beliefs, as well as non-believers, would likely routinely be required to listen to religious messages or participate in religious exercises that conflict with their own beliefs.
Tell your Tennessee legislators that public schools are not Sunday schools.
and the text of the form letter the ACLU has written up for people to send to Governor Hasslam:
QuoteWhile this bill is called the "Religious Viewpoints Antidiscrimination Act," it would actually encourage discrimination against public school students who hold a variety of beliefs about religion.
Much of this bill is unnecessary: Students' right to express and practice their religious faith in the public schools is already well-protected by the U.S. Constitution and existing laws. Tennessee public school students cannot be denied, among other things, the right to pray individually or in groups, or to express their religious views as long as they are not disruptive, and to organize religious clubs to the extent that other non-curricular clubs are allowed.
But this bill also encourages religious coercion, requiring local school boards to establish a system for selecting student speakers and allow those students to express their beliefs about religion in a variety of inappropriate settings, from the classroom to school-day assemblies and school events.
Should this pass, students with a range of religious beliefs, as well as non-believers, would likely routinely be required to listen to religious messages or participate in religious exercises that conflict with their own beliefs. Conversely, if a student of a minority religious faith (e.g., a Buddhist, a Wiccan, etc.) or a non-believer were to obtain a "position of honor," as defined under this bill, that student would be permitted to subject all classmates to prayer and proselytizing specific to his or her faith tradition in connection with school events. In both cases, parents would have no recourse to ensure that their children were not coerced into such religious exercise.
This bill will only cause confusion for school districts that want to comply with the U.S. Constitution and existing federal laws, as well as respect the religious beliefs of all of their students.
I can't wait to see how this works for cities with a significant Muslim population, such as Murfreesboro, and Nashville. I'm guessing it will make it even harder for Muslim students to obtain these so-called "positions of honor".
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
I would have LOVED an opportunity to give speeches about my religious beliefs. I would have LOVED to form a Discordian prayer group.
As you said--these systems are so ripe for abuse. Just wait until kids are giving speeches about the Koran. Then watch these fundamental christian leaders defend it.
Wait a minute, this must have happened already, no? Somebody tell me that there is a youtube video where some preacher is telling the school board there is too much religious freedom.
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
Except that you and I know it doesn't actually work that way.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 01:31:11 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
Except that you and I know it doesn't actually work that way.
When a religious person asks for "freedom of religion" what they actually want is a theocracy :argh!:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 01:31:11 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
Except that you and I know it doesn't actually work that way.
Reality is funny that way. Though It would be pretty amazing if some kid had the balls to pray to Mecca during school hours.
There's an interesting (read - imaginary) distinction that religions, especially the large corporate outfits, like to make between "proper" religions and cults. A cult being a mainstream religion with significantly decreased market share.
If the secular establishment can make a concerted effort to erode the validity of this distinction, the outcome should be to afford an equal level of legitimacy to any form of delusion, regardless of how many fucking likes they have on facebook. :argh!:
Anything less is not freedom of religion.
It's tough when people are still making fucking movies about shit like Noah's ark.
Please tell me you're talking about Evan Almighty?
Nope. They guy who did Requiem For A Dream directed Noah. With Russel Crowe, no less.
I knew I was going to regret asking that :argh!:
Somehow the entire validity of this entertainment project hinges on the disclaimer at the start of the movie. If it says "Based on a true story" I'm going to physically kill a motherfucker. To death :evilmad:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 28, 2014, 02:18:37 PM
I knew I was going to regret asking that :argh!:
Somehow the entire validity of this entertainment project hinges on the disclaimer at the start of the movie. If it says "Based on a true story" I'm going to physically kill a motherfucker. To death :evilmad:
Can I pick the motherfucker?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 01:31:11 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
Except that you and I know it doesn't actually work that way.
true. I went searching for any drama about this topic, and check out what I found - chase already in progress
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/09/satanists-seek-spot-next-to-ten-commandments-monument-on-steps-oklahoma/
Quote"The monument has been designed to reflect the views of Satanists in Oklahoma City and beyond," temple spokesman Lucien Greaves said in a statement. "The statue will also have a functional purpose as a chair where people of all ages may sit on the lap of Satan for inspiration and contemplation."
The Satanic Temple maintains that the Oklahoma Legislature's decision to authorize a privately funded Ten Commandments monument at the Capitol opened the door for its statue. The Ten Commandments monument was placed on the north steps of the building in 2012, and the Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has sued to have it removed.
Similar requests for monuments have been made by a Hindu leader in Nevada, an animal rights group and the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
In response, the Oklahoma Capitol Preservation Commission recently placed a moratorium on considering any new requests.
Quote"I think you've got to remember where you are. This is Oklahoma, the middle of the heartland," said Rep. Don Armes, R-Faxon. "I think we need to be tolerant of people who think different than us, but this is Oklahoma, and that's not going to fly here."
:lulz: :lulz:
"We want freedom of religion... in other words, freedom from having to think about your religion."
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 28, 2014, 02:08:53 PM
Nope. They guy who did Requiem For A Dream directed Noah. With Russel Crowe, no less.
Saw ad posted while waiting for subway last night. And all it brought to mind is
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTm02mRL3ySbLefBk9WriRSkvLhN56JUyfHX8I1_4i7vOSGF9AK)
"Me an'
Tugger the Ark are going to
fight rescue animals from this flood 'ere. Hey! That giraffe looks he wants to fight!"
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 28, 2014, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 01:31:11 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
Except that you and I know it doesn't actually work that way.
Reality is funny that way. Though It would be pretty amazing if some kid had the balls to pray to Mecca during school hours.
It's fairly common, here. We have a large African immigrant population, most of whom are Muslims. The school system provides for that in a manner that isn't disruptive.
Y'know, it's things like that which make me realize what a terrible, sneaky trap TUCSON lays on people. It lures you in acting all human and shit, and then it turns around and GRINS at you.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 28, 2014, 04:39:00 PM
Y'know, it's things like that which make me realize what a terrible, sneaky trap TUCSON lays on people. It lures you in acting all human and shit, and then it turns around and GRINS at you.
Yeah, pretty much. It's more that we have so many horrible things to worry about, we don't even CONSIDER religion.
Also, the Calvinists have been hanging around the Nazerenes too much, and it's beginning to show. John Calvin must be rolling in his grave at about 3600 RPM.
They're just so damn agreeable.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:47:32 PM
They're just so damn agreeable.
I spent the last two days (while sick), arguing with a Nazarene and two Calvinists. There were some interesting conclusions, which perhaps I should write up.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:47:32 PM
They're just so damn agreeable.
I spent the last two days (while sick), arguing with a Nazarene and two Calvinists. There were some interesting conclusions, which perhaps I should write up.
I'd like to read it.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:59:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:47:32 PM
They're just so damn agreeable.
I spent the last two days (while sick), arguing with a Nazarene and two Calvinists. There were some interesting conclusions, which perhaps I should write up.
I'd like to read it.
Okay, I'll get to it.
TGRR,
Allahu Asshat.
I'm imagining an app which generates a random string of letters every day, which is your deity for the next 24 hours, and two measures of time, the first being how often you need to pray to your deity and the second being for how long.
So the first day you might have to pray to sdfgkjfgh once ever hour, for 5 minutes. The second day maybe you pray to auebfhfy once every 5 minutes for 2 and a half minutes.
Prayer consists mainly of attempting to pronounce the name of your lord and saviour, out loud.
If any employer or educational establish doesn't allow this, they're trampling my freedom of religion :argh!:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 05:00:08 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:59:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:47:32 PM
They're just so damn agreeable.
I spent the last two days (while sick), arguing with a Nazarene and two Calvinists. There were some interesting conclusions, which perhaps I should write up.
I'd like to read it.
Okay, I'll get to it.
TGRR,
Allahu Asshat.
:argh!: :lulz:
:lulz: :lulz:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 28, 2014, 06:12:55 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 01:31:11 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
Except that you and I know it doesn't actually work that way.
When a religious person asks for "freedom of religion" what they actually want is a theocracy :argh!:
I think that depends lot on who the religious person is. If they are a member of a minority religion in the area they are probably actually asking for freedom of religion.
Quote from: :regret: on March 28, 2014, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 05:00:08 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:59:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:47:32 PM
They're just so damn agreeable.
I spent the last two days (while sick), arguing with a Nazarene and two Calvinists. There were some interesting conclusions, which perhaps I should write up.
I'd like to read it.
Okay, I'll get to it.
TGRR,
Allahu Asshat.
:argh!: :lulz:
:lulz: :lulz:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Believe it or not, that's not even blasphemy.
Quote from: Pergamos on March 28, 2014, 06:24:08 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 28, 2014, 06:12:55 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 01:31:11 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
Except that you and I know it doesn't actually work that way.
When a religious person asks for "freedom of religion" what they actually want is a theocracy :argh!:
I think that depends lot on who the religious person is. If they are a member of a minority religion in the area they are probably actually asking for freedom of religion.
I can see you've never dealt with Hardshell Baptists or bog-standard Calvinists. If there's ONE FAMILY in a town, they're trying to tell you what books need to be taken out of the school library and burned.
Methodists, now, they won't fuck with you unless they have a majority, but then LOOK OUT. No booze, no dancing, no BIG RED STRAPS, nothing.
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
I would have LOVED an opportunity to give speeches about my religious beliefs. I would have LOVED to form a Discordian prayer group.
As you said--these systems are so ripe for abuse. Just wait until kids are giving speeches about the Koran. Then watch these fundamental christian leaders defend it.
Wait a minute, this must have happened already, no? Somebody tell me that there is a youtube video where some preacher is telling the school board there is too much religious freedom.
I can't find any school board footage, but I just found a recent video of a news report on an attempt by local yahoos to get an injunction against the local mosque's cemetery that is Laugh Out Loud funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydNfIr2CqI8
Here's an older one that does feature not one, but two local preachers protesting Islam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=278lIMV9CgU
There has been some "controversy" over muslim kids receiving accommodations for muslim stuff in local schools, though. The footage you're waiting for can't be far off.
Also, joke religions are a fun way for kids to troll the system, but they aren't nearly as likely to receive the support from the federal government that a really real religion like Islam does. Not that they should let that stop them, or anything.
I think one of the things that bugs me the most is the fact that the government gets to decide what is and is not a really real religion. The anti-Islam people around here have been trying to challenge the really realness of Islam as a religion, as one guy alluded to in the first video. In fact, one of the reasons Judge Corlew recused himself from the cemetery case may be because the feds kind of gave him the stink eye for entertaining that specific notion a few years ago when they were trying to stop the mosque.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 28, 2014, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 01:31:11 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
When I was in high school the religion-in-schools debate du jour was about whether or not its legal to hang the 10 commandments on the wall. I was in favor of it. Because as soon as that's legal and protected by law, they have to protect the Pentabarf and the Satanic Commandments.
Except that you and I know it doesn't actually work that way.
Reality is funny that way. Though It would be pretty amazing if some kid had the balls to pray to Mecca during school hours.
Oh, they do, multiple times per day, even, and the schools here are accommodating this. It's really stepping on people's apparent need to believe that schools are legally obligated to stop students from praying, and confiscate bibles and shit. It has lead some people to believe that bibles are illegal in school, but Korans are not
BECAUSE: ZOMG! SHARIA! DHIMMITUDE! TAQIYYA!