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I tend to think of the term "jailbreak", in this metaphor, as "breaking down your jail" by consciously recognizing its component parts, thereby giving you the ability to interact with and change the way you perceive the world.

TITCM

Indeed.  Very cleanly stated, Nigel.

 Many years ago back in Washington state, in a housing development in small town up north, some time in the winter and late at night I waited with a werewolf outside his place - he'd forgotten his keys and I was keeping him company until his housemates came back from wherever they were at.

While we waited someone walked on by, huddled against the cold and making quite sure not to acknowledge us, staring pointedly at their feet as they walked.

"Wouldn't it be a shame," the werewolf said "to go through life like that, always looking down, never looking up at the world around you?"

Hearing this, I was enlightened.

To this day his words ring in me often, and whenever I find myself looking down I remember instead to look up, and remember the beauty of the world.

 Interestingly I'm frequently finding points that I very much agree with and others I very much disagree with coming from the same book.

  Cool stuff to share Cain.  Thanks.

Insightful and beautiful.  Thanks for sharing it.

  Would it be ok for me to post it elsewhere, and if so by what name would I credit you?

4.  I hold that the Machine,Ñ¢ is what happens when people forget they're in Prison.

I really like this.  Triple Zero expanded upon it nicely.

Actually, between them, Nietzsche Hume and Foucault even did away with the idea of an individual personality.  As Nietzsche pointed out, "there is thinking therefore there is thinking" is the only real conclusion one can draw.

Reduced to first principles, I believe you can only be certain of two things that you can apply pretty much universally:

1. Something is going on.
2. Not necessarily.

I am still uncertain if you can apply point 2 to point 1. I'm also not certain how useful it is to say really, but here I am saying it.

I have broken free of the BIP and I find that it is actually a lonely place, it is not populated with individuals, but it does not have any further walls and is not devoid of life. It is a free place that is to be explored and learnt from.

As many have pointed out CtG seems to have missed the point in claiming to have "escaped".  However it does strike close to something that I've been wondering about, namely that the idea of "jailbreaking" seems to run counter to the BiP metaphor, i.e. that you cannot escape the limitations of your perceptions.  I did a little searching for the term in the PD.com forums but didn't seem to see a discussion on the topic.

  Could someone point me to one perhaps?  Or have I too missed the point albeit in a different way?

LOL, ERIS.

TITCM

  I consider Discordianism my religion, and I think it's great that my religion allows me to randomly discover new holy books. Initially I was drawn here after reading BIP.  Some of y'all's posts fall under that category too.

There seems to be a pretty intelligent crowd here, talking about some informative stuff, some useful stuff, some thought-provoking stuff and some silly stuff.  Hells, somewhere in the Recipes subforum someone's probably talking about stuffing stuff.

In addition to be amused, I can also throw things out here and get interesting commentary on them from some varied perspectives.

It's been fairly worthwhile so far.

good call....
It turns out his hyperactivity wasn't due to the donuts at all, but instead from the HAARP control signals.

He is now patiently reading his lesson book.

Holy crap that book also features Hypnotoad!



Hm.  Now I'm wondering if it would be possible to write a Discordian children's book.   I'm already teaching my kid that when people say 'God' what they mean is 'Eris', but I don't know that he really gets it - he's 7 and autistic after all (pretty high functioning, but even so).  The core message of "Think for Yourself" that might be a little tricky though it might be possible to instill distrust for authority - ideally not Mom and Dad so much, that'd come back to bite you in the ass.

The Discordian Coloring Book is pretty kid-friendly though (well, except for the naked people "hugging" but that's not a real big deal) so I suppose it could be done...

Something to ponder...

Original Message:

From: ShadowFist23
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:46:37 -0500
To: laramie
Subject: discordian colouring book as advertising

Hullo Laramie,

I've been rediscovering Discordianism lately, and happened again
across your lovely Discordian Colouring Book. I had always meant to
tell you how awesome it is, so here I am!  They're wonderful images,
and it would be nice to get more people seeing them.

I had been thinking about pamphleting or something, and it occurred
to me that individual pages of your book with some text added above
and below (e.g. learn more about discordianism here [link to the PD]
and see more from the artist here [link to your website]) might have
the dual purpose of turning more people on to Discordianism and
potentially netting you some referrals and hopefully some sales!  It
might also be fun to make sure the pages were numbered and include the
text "collect the whole set" somewhere in there too.  Also a copyright
notice, for your protection.

Handily the pages hosted at POEE.org fit to 8x11 with some space at
the top and the bottom that would be ideal for this.  If you like the
idea I'll design a frame for them to go in and present it to you for
your approval.  If you like it I'll set up the images (and again
present them for your approval) and then post them to the
PrincipiaDiscordia.com site for distribution as a GASM ("Golden Apple
Seed Mission").

Whaddaya think?

Yours,

-sf23!

Reply:

from   laramie   dreamspell.net
to   shadowfist23
date   Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM
subject   RE: discordian colouring book as advertising
      
HI!

Happy synchronicity! I was just thinking that it was time to do something
to remind people of Discordia, and of coloring books. Sounds like a great
plan. I look forward to seeing the frame you come up with.

- Laramie Sasseville

I can of course create the frames myself, and I will if none of you spags step up.  But my time is limited and my layout skillz rusty, and I'm sure one of you WOMP rats could make something in 5 or 10 minutes that would look better than something that'll take me 30 or 40, when I can find the time to get around to it. 

Text to use:
(header)
A Discordian Coloring Page for you to enjoy!
Read the Book at http://www.principiadiscordia.com
Page X of 30 - Collect them all!
(footer)
copyright Laramie Sasseville  1982 - all rights reserved - used by permission
See more of the artist's work at http://www.dreamspell.net

The images are here: http://poee.org/living/GetBook.aspx?BookPageID=15

Design considerations:
- This is fundamentally a teaser campaign, so the design should be as spare as possible to avoid distractions and keep to the point: the links
- Same text for all images, apart from the page number
-  I did say "frame" in the email but I'm not certain the images require one, a header and a footer alone might be plenty
- The images themselves contain the subversive content and can stand on their own
- The use of the phrase "Read the Book" when referring to PD.com gives the curious some additional direction as to where to go when they hit the site, as the same phrase appears right on the homepage
- Text should clearly legible in a 1st generation photocopy, ideally so in a 2nd or 3rd generation one so the font shouldn't be too fancy
   
Comments:
This is primarily a teaser campaign, so it should be minimalist - the pictures are the hook, the message is the weblink.  This will hopefully result in some people ending up reading the Principia and/or The Black Iron Prison, both proven recruiting tools.  It will hopefully net Laramie some web hits as well and maybe some sales - the timing is right close enough to Xmas that it might also result in a few Discordian Xmas presents being bought and given, and I happen to think that's pretty cool.

Inspired in part by vexati0n's recent Critique: "Now, while people might read a flyer or a pamphlet, they won't spend much time reflecting on it."   Using an image as a hook bypasses the "tl;dr" effect.  If we can tease people to surf to the site, we have a better chance of them sticking around and reading.

Print 'em, leave 'em wherever.

I was imagining folding pages into thirds and applying a label to the outside.  I'm open to suggestions there, though again it should be enticing but simple and pretty up front, like "Hey, this colouring page is for you!  Yeah, YOU!  Enjoy!"  Potentially just written by hand, but it might be good to format something for printing too.

edited to add a link to the images

Not only that, strong beliefs depend on conflict. In the case of strong beliefs, one not only doubts the opposition, but actively chooses to disbelieve it and refuses to think in that way (i.e. refuses to consider the other viewpoint).

So, do you strongly believe that it is a mistake to hold strong beliefs?

Shadow, if you say LOL again I'm going to reach right through my ISP and apply large blunt instruments to your nasal cavity.  It's the internet equivalent to giggling in the middle of every sentence, and it makes you sound like a sixth grade girl.

YES! It also reads as pure contempt, in the context of a disagreement.

Noted for future reference.  Interestingly among people I chat/email with, it is usually taken as more of an "It's all cool" kinda indicator.

... do you do it in the middle of insulting their views? Because that's the "context" part of the equation...

  Well, yes, especially so.  It is meant to indicate the question asked in a playful manner, not as an insult at all. 

  Reading back now, I see that I myself derailed the thread rather early by implying that there was some sort of problem with viewing Eris as strife personified.  Had I been more careful about it I could have done more to suggest that Eris-as-strife is perfectly fine, but a loving Eris as creation/creativity personified is perfectly compatible with that as well.  Instead I seem to have left the impression that the latter was the only, or at least the inherently superior, view.

This seems to have resulted largely from attacking cynicism as a worldview, though perhaps those I prodded were more offended that I framed them exclusively as cynics rather than anything else.  This I think was Cain's primary complaint, though my response to him (and the passion of it) derived largely from his contention that I was "burying my head in the sand", which really doesn't follow from my initial statements.  The fact that he concluded it suggests that I need to clarify my statements in such a way as to avoid that conclusion.  I am still keen to talk with him more about it so I can determine how that happened, though I have found that it is a common assumption made when someone talks about looking at things in a positive or optimistic manner, as I somewhat vehemently expressed.

I still think it's a pity to view Eris *only* as strife, but I'm not going to say you're wrong to do so.  I am still quite interested in the more positive, growth promoting on-your-side version of Eris and I feel a significant amount of the strength (and longevity) of the PD comes from that source.  Again, my mistake (ok, one of my mistakes) was to imply that the two were incompatible.

In any case I'm not unhappy with the conversation that it spawned, in particular those stories of how Eris is viewed in all your lives (I especially enjoyed your story Nigel).

Discordianism is a swiss-army knife, a tool that can be used for a wide variety of purposes, though I would argue that Think For Yourself remains the primary one.  I guess I was curious why few people choose to use the corkscrew.

Shadow, if you say LOL again I'm going to reach right through my ISP and apply large blunt instruments to your nasal cavity.  It's the internet equivalent to giggling in the middle of every sentence, and it makes you sound like a sixth grade girl.

YES! It also reads as pure contempt, in the context of a disagreement.

Noted for future reference.  Interestingly among people I chat/email with, it is usually taken as more of an "It's all cool" kinda indicator.

I gots to make dinner & such but I'll try to return later to address some of the new points.  Briefly though @GA: thanks for the extended response, it was appreciated.  @Cain: I'm still very curious to hear what you thought I was saying that was untrue, and why the structure I laid out is incompatible with higher purposes.

Thank you all for commenting though.  Very illuminating.

Then why are you using such antagonistic, disrespectful verbiage for other people's views of Discordia?

It's a debate tactic that is apparently coming off poorly.  My apologies.

Because you're not "defending" your interpretation... you're attacking other people's interpretations when they explain how theirs differ.

Hm.  I'm trying to challenge people certainly, but my hope is really to entertain and make people think.  I'm not trying to get anyone's back up about it - well, I was pretty rude to Cain I suppose but I did try to apologize.  I'll have to go back and look at what I've posted, try to use it as a learning experience to express myself more clearly.

I mean don't try to demean me into following your dogma, baby doll. Also, you don't have any idea how seriously anyone here is taking this. Do you realize that?

Well, if you think I'm trying to demean you, I'm not.  I'm just making suggestions and asking questions.  Apparantly I'm being pretty fucking rude about it, to judge by the replies I'm getting.   

From your posts, you seem to be taking it very seriously, yourself. Are you?

Shit no!  I'm passionate about it certainly, but I'm laughing my ass off here.  I find this whole thing enormously entertaining.  Taking my religion seriously is against my religion.   

Justifications can't be axioms.  That's the whole POINT of an axiom - they don't need to be justified.  You just assert them.  I'd have no problem with #1 if you just said "The universe loves you."

I'm not saying that life isn't a gift.  I'm saying that receiving a gift doesn't imply receiving love.  Has everyone who has ever given you a present truly loved you?  Have you never given a present to someone just because it was expected of you?  The conclusion does not follow.

The conclusion doesn't have to follow, certainly.  As I said, I've chosen to believe it is so.  Nothing says you have to.

As for axioms not being justifications, you'll note in the OP I suggested that faith is a belief based on a belief.  Semantics aside, is it unreasonable to have suggested what I did?  I obviously don't think so, but your objection suggests I could have stated it better. 

You might consider not that I am wearing rose-coloured glasses, but perhaps that you are wearing shit-stained ones.

IT'S A CONDITION, OKAY?  STOP BEING SO FASCIST, YOU WITH YOUR 20/20 VISION AND LACK OF OCULAR DIARRHEA!

LOL, did I not include enough conditionals in there for you?  "Might consider" and "perhaps" weren't enough?  Should I have added "possibly maybe in some senses but not necessarily so don't take it so damn personal if you don't think so"?  Would that have been sufficient?

Also point 6.  The driving force of the universe isn't change; the effect of the driving force in the universe is (very often) change.  Maximization of entropy is a good candidate for driving force, but that's neither here nor there.  You might state the the nature of the universe is change, or that change is the only constant, but change is a result, not a cause.

chicken/egg

I drop a rock from a height.  It falls to the ground.  Is the driving force here gravitational attraction, or is it rocks on the ground?

I'm not getting a good feel for your argument I must confess. You seem to be arguing in terms of Science whereas I'm arguing in more loosey-goosey spiritual sense.

And with regards to this whole Eris thing... if you want a mother figure just make up a mother figure.  Don't repurpose the goddess whose only notable role was starting a decades long war because she didn't get invited to a party.  People died, Shadow.  Women and children were raped and murdered and dragged from behind chariots and had their fields salted because she didn't get invited to a party.  Don't go redefining our words and names to fit something you like.

LOL now who's telling who how to be a Discordian?

Why are you so convinced that your dogma is better than mine?

I'm not.

 Part of my purpose in this thread though is to defend my position, and I am attempting to challenge yours as well.  I'm sorry if that's coming off as antagonistic - to a degree it is a limitation of the internets tho, nuance gets lost.

I LOVE the image of Eris as a kid with a magnifying glass. You want a momma, I want a mischievous, dangerous troublemaker.

Cool, that's kick-ass.  
My concern is that the more tender side of Eris is getting lost though - I see more Hodge than Podge on the PD boards.  I think that's a pity.  It's not fucking critical though, I'm just stirring up shit about it.

You seem to be saying you want us all to be and want the same things... like you're looking for a sort of homogeneity that, frankly, has no place in MY Discordia.

Without Hodge, Podge is imbalanced, right? MY Eris is leaving a flaming bag of poop on YOUR Eris' doorstep, ringing the bell, and running away right now.

Don't tell me how to be Discordian. There are thousands of pinealist neo-flower-children who will gladly embrace your vision of Eris. There's really no reason for you to heckle the fifteen or so people who don't. You want something? Do it. Leave me the fuck out of it.

I'm uncertain why everyone thinks I'm trying to enforce dogma here; I'm offering an interpretation and yeah, I'm challenging yours as a result.   I have stated several times that this is my trip, and it might work for you and it might not - I don't know how that's getting lost.

I fail to see how defending my interpretation is heckling.

As for leaving you the fuck out of it, if you want to be left out of it don't post in the thread, hon.  Easy-peasy.

I really have the utmost respect for (nearly) everyone here, and have no intention to offend.  Y'all are taking this pretty seriously, which was a little unexpected actually.