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Are you one of those people who think food comes from the supermarket?  Even a child can maintain a garden, and there are many edible plants growing wild that most people don't know about because they are sadly uninformed.

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no... actually your the idiot that thinks he can become the Green Giant and grow enough produce to substain a population base... god forbid there is a drought or famine, or maybe youll raise livestock (which requires quite a lot of room without the use of evil city technology/ and of course the people not subscriping to your stoned out hippie fantasy are just going give up all the space you require, or fuck that the people living next to you, and by the way there aren't too many animals that can be domesticad for that purpose so if you live in the place your totaly fucked)
HEY AND WE CAN CURE PLAGUES AND OUTBREAKS WITH ALL NATURAL REMEDiES AND GOOD VIBES.. MAN
AND EVERYONE WILL GET ALONG... ITLL BE LIKE FLOWERS RIDING A RAINBOW
/
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What makes you think that that I would grow food to help maintain a whole population base.  Fact of the matter is I wish most people would croak where they sit.  And for sure for sure, if you came stumbling upon my camp begging for food or water, I'd tell you
"LEARN TO SURVIVE ON YOUR OWN!"
and go back to smoking my joint in peace (and looovvee maaan...) lol

For people claiming to want to or to have already broken out of the box
there are *some of you*
who seem to like to argue for he sake of arguement.
While I agree that there is some wisdom to be found in madness,
I find absolutely no wisdom in your rediculous arguements.

Sad fact of the matter is even if those who wanted to escape civilization did and went out to live in a more simple way, what would happen?

2) Those who stick to their hippie ideals will die out or begin massacring each other when they start starving and realize the real world aint rainbows and sunshine (NO order can be maintained without food)

Are you one of those people who think food comes from the supermarket?  Even a child can maintain a garden, and there are many edible plants growing wild that most people don't know about because they are sadly uninformed.

It know that. I have a small garden, and like to grow a few things. But all of those growing things require an assload of water, compared to the nature amount of rainfall we get (which is close to about none). All that water that provides a "natural and healthy" food source comes from the exploitation and damming of a lake a few miles to the north, probably at the expense of many species and wildlife.
There are just some areas that are not capable of sustaining agriculture without massive interference.

You say that people could live off of wild plants, but there would be be never enough to sustain a large population without some people starving, or immediately consuming it.
And people would still end up killing each other. Even American Indian tribes, who practiced sustainable agriculture and foraging waged war with each other on a regular basis. They were still human, after all.

Humanity will always be at constant struggle with its natural environment, simply because the current resources will never be able to meet its needs for what it considers a happy, fulfilling lifestyle. 

You make an incredible point.  I respect that.

I just saw that there is a movie called, "The Number 23."  The description didn't really say much except about the repetition of the number and something about paranoia.  Has anyone seen it?  Post up a review?

how exactly do people in the city benefit from hippies in the wilderness smoking joints naked next to a hot spring playing on their gameboys?

srsly, tell me how, because if i can get someone to pay me for doing that, i don't mind playing tetris for a couple of hours a day
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Well, to start off with, did you know that one acre of marijuana puts off as much oxygen as ten acres of rain forest?  No joke.  I think I'd start there, personally.  Hemp is one of the stronges natural fibers, though not readily available to the masses.  Hemp seeds have all but one of the essential amino acids that the human body needs.  And, oh yeah, people are so hard pressed to find alternate fuels so as not to be raped at the gas pump, well, there could be an anwer to that in the equasion as well.

And our happy little city folk keep using up all our natural resources, who do you expect is going to go get their hands dirty trying to replenish the Earth where it's been raped again and again?  The people who think their dinner naturally appears in a baggy in the frozen food section of the supermarket?
And it's already been seen time and again: the ignorant pump their bodies full of chemicals and processed foods until, lo and behold, they end up with cancer or something equally as devistating.  Half go get "professional medical help" and most die in the hospital at the hands of an idiot MD with a God complex, or the others look into alternative healing: acupuncture, herbal remedies, medical intuitives, and a vast variety of other things and often find the root problem and heal themselves. 
Who do you think studies these things?  The vast consumer society just waiting for the latest i-pod to come out, or those "hippies" in the forest trying to reconnect with the earth from whence we came?

Sad fact of the matter is even if those who wanted to escape civilization did and went out to live in a more simple way, what would happen?

2) Those who stick to their hippie ideals will die out or begin massacring each other when they start starving and realize the real world aint rainbows and sunshine (NO order can be maintained without food)

Are you one of those people who think food comes from the supermarket?  Even a child can maintain a garden, and there are many edible plants growing wild that most people don't know about because they are sadly uninformed.

I spent a ton of time in the wilderness so can safely say that those who return will be more or less dead in a year
the small survivors will grow jealous and try to reenter the cities, and if denied massacre those city dwellers they can find
it will be like Africa

If we couldn't survive in the wilderness then our species wouldn't exist. 

Sad fact of the matter is even if those who wanted to escape civilization did and went out to live in a more simple way, what would happen?
The one little band of people would meet another little band of people with different skills who could contribute to the group and make good company.  Then they would meet more and more
until they essentially built the very thing they were trying to escape.

As was said in the beginning
We are after all social creatures

Well, in my opinion...
I think there is a cultural shift happening now
as represented by the "green movement."
But there are SO many people...
Some will return to the wilderness, some with and some without technology.
Some will stay in "civilization" and continue on with their pursuit of technology.
Best case senerio is each group will benefit from the other
(cleaner air in the cities from the work done in the wilderness)
and (creature comforts for those in the wilderness from those in the cities)
just one example.

And, as always,
best case senerio is that all the assholes who are power hungry and trying to get rich at everyone elses expense
and who are trying to control the masses like friggin sheep herders
of course
would die out or be killed off.

I don't have all the answers but mushrooms of the magical variety might help...

[I]

And you will have to excuse me,
I am, after all, elbow deep in The Once and Future Goddess,
which although informative and having many wonderful photos and symbols,
is well know to be highly over romanticized and I hold every right to enjoy it while I'm in it!
I'll get to the down and dirty when I'm finished...

and who says you will die in the forest over such minor issues?  As our species progressed we learned how to heal ourselves and deal with the issues we faced.  And that IS the beauty of todays technology.  My hubby lived in the Gila for two years with only random trips into town for supplies (lucky bastard).  He didn't want for a hot shower cos he had natural mineral hot springs.  Where he could sit and play his game boy.  Naked.  While smoking a j and whatever.

So, you're proposing that SOME people go back to the forest and live in blissful harmony, while OTHERS stay in the nasty, brutal where they can produce and develop the technology needed for the bliss-ninny's survival?


I know which team I want to be on.

I think that if we all ran naked, flocking back to the forest in a stampede,
1.) wouldn't solve anything
2.) overpopulate the forest
3.) cause considerably more problems

Like everything else, cultural change is a process.  It's a shift on collective consciousness.  If EVERYONE returned to the forest RIGHT NOW many would die and a group of canibals would form and there would be a whole bunch of people dying from thier foot fungus.

Although I realize its much fun to pick on the new girl, common sense is still a necessity.

eww about the furries
pardon about the "you people"
and I was thinking about the mayans btw

and who says you will die in the forest over such minor issues?  As our species progressed we learned how to heal ourselves and deal with the issues we faced.  And that IS the beauty of todays technology.  My hubby lived in the Gila for two years with only random trips into town for supplies (lucky bastard).  He didn't want for a hot shower cos he had natural mineral hot springs.  Where he could sit and play his game boy.  Naked.  While smoking a j and whatever.
He had a small generator and plenty of food.  And alcohol.  And tobacco.
And silence.  With no one watching.
If you made it a lifestyle you go with someone who knows medicinal plants and you take a book.  But alternative healing is big in New Mexico.  It's necessary to know the local plants and have a gps and take modern percausions.  Not to do so would be stupid. 
And there is a plant called "Toilet paper plant."  It's better than Charmin.  Soft and fluffy and it grows everywhere.  *biodegradable!*
(wink wink)
And I by no means suggest caniblism.  There are plenty of other animals for those carnivors in the group.
 

Hello all!
Promise I'm not coming to get you!
Just wanna hear what the other angry voices have to say.
I'm so sick of listening to the five bastards in my head who wont agree...

An alt, huh? 
Couldn't tell you one way or the other cos I missed the memo about it

So many people, it seems, have lost touch with the fact that
WE ARE IN FACT ANIMALS!!!
Nothing more.  Ants could take over the world if they wanted, but they haven't yet...
although they are posing a major attack on my kitchen...
We've completely lost touch with the Earth.
When was the last time you walked barefool through the grass or dirt?  ('Sept you sad people in the desert)  Or took a three day hike to a hot spring and bathed in the mineral water with no one around for miles?  We are animals who forget we come from the earth and then return to it just like everything else.  All these bastards with their conspiracies to get rich and rule this or that.  What will it matter to them in another hundred years anyway? 

   What the fuck is a furrie?  Maybe you people do spend too much time on the internet.  That last one is hard to follow.
Anyhow,
Here's my take on the whole thing.  Long long time ago the Aztecs built great cities.  The made amazing things and charted a callendar that far advances our own.  They did things we can't even figure out even with all the "technology" we have these days.

And they were savage beasts.
Not unlike our own world today.

But then what happened?  They realized it was killing their souls.
Or something equally as dramatic.

And then they returned to the forest to live as their neolithic ancestors.
Something more simplistic and yet so much more rewarding.  Answer me this:  How many close friends do you have?  Or family members?  And I don't mean people you hang out at the bar with or bitch about your husband to.  Real friends who got your back no matter what.
Five, max maybe?
We are so paraniod (and rightfully so really) we can't trust anyone.  We are so alienated from each other, even our own family, that we, as a people, as a society, FREAK OUT!  Just watch the news!

Hopefully, collectively, people will realize the mess they made and return into the forest.

Except all the politicians and other ilk.  They can stay in the concrete jungle and die from smog!

I've come up with nothing profound.
All that remains are sticks and brambles
inside my head...
At least we can all enjoy a good old fashion bonfire!
Besides, if I'm going down in flames I should at least do it in style!!!
I won't take down anyone with me...
cos then they'd know where I am...