No not that kind. One of the scarier problems that we are facing is the spread of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Tuberculosis and other deadly diseases are developing increasing levels of antibiotic resistance. Evidence suggests that this resistance has existed, as a small portion of bacteria populations, for hundreds of years but it is only becoming widespread due to widespread use of antibiotics. Why are antibiotics allowed to be used when there is no evidence of bacterial infection? Why are they allowed to be used in factory farming? Every use of antibiotics makes it that much more likely that they will not work the next time they are used.
The use in factory farming is particularly bad, since they are present constantly in low dose, which is essentially a breeding program for resistant bacteria.
I guess my question is, why aren't they more tightly controlled? You don't see opiates being prescribed every time anyone is in pain, Unless it is severe they prescribe aceteminophen or NSAID's instead.
I used to live next to some hillbillies who raised fighting chickens. They would shoot their roosters up with 3-4 times the maximum recommended dosage of whatever antibiotic they were using.
I referred to them as "Plague Breeders".
Quote from: Pergamos on March 08, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
I guess my question is, why aren't they more tightly controlled? You don't see opiates being prescribed every time anyone is in pain, Unless it is severe they prescribe aceteminophen or NSAID's instead.
Because the huge corporations that control the factory farms have a lot of money, and thus a lot of control over regulations.
Quote from: Nigel on March 08, 2014, 09:55:51 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on March 08, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
I guess my question is, why aren't they more tightly controlled? You don't see opiates being prescribed every time anyone is in pain, Unless it is severe they prescribe aceteminophen or NSAID's instead.
Because the huge corporations that control the factory farms have a lot of money, and thus a lot of control over regulations.
Because the FDA is as worried about public health and safety as Traffick police are about keeping people safe?
Quote from: Pergamos on March 08, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
I guess my question is, why aren't they more tightly controlled? You don't see opiates being prescribed every time anyone is in pain, Unless it is severe they prescribe aceteminophen or NSAID's instead.
Because legislation is reactionary, we'll need a plague to get widespread changes implemented across livestock use and a change of mindset in doctors with their magic bullet.
Younger doctors are pretty reluctant to prescribe antibiotics, because they're being taught new-paradigm thinking about them in med school. I didn't even get sent home with "prophylactic" antibiotics after abdominal surgery.
That's good to hear, I'm glad the attitude is changing. Ireland's medical system is a shattered antiquated relic and thusly has not matured beyond the 1980's.
Quote from: Faust on March 08, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
That's good to hear, I'm glad the attitude is changing. Ireland's medical system is a shattered antiquated relic and thusly has not matured beyond the 1980's.
One of my favorite quotes right now is Max Planck, "Science advances one funeral at a time". I think that applies equally to medicine.
Quote from: Nigel on March 08, 2014, 11:10:55 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 08, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
That's good to hear, I'm glad the attitude is changing. Ireland's medical system is a shattered antiquated relic and thusly has not matured beyond the 1980's.
One of my favorite quotes right now is Max Planck, "Science advances one funeral at a time". I think that applies equally to medicine.
How about "Science advances one bleeding wrist media report at a time."?
Quote from: The Johnny on March 09, 2014, 12:28:33 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 08, 2014, 11:10:55 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 08, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
That's good to hear, I'm glad the attitude is changing. Ireland's medical system is a shattered antiquated relic and thusly has not matured beyond the 1980's.
One of my favorite quotes right now is Max Planck, "Science advances one funeral at a time". I think that applies equally to medicine.
How about "Science advances one bleeding wrist media report at a time."?
I don't think Max Planck ever said that.
Quote from: Tom on March 09, 2014, 12:47:47 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on March 09, 2014, 12:28:33 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 08, 2014, 11:10:55 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 08, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
That's good to hear, I'm glad the attitude is changing. Ireland's medical system is a shattered antiquated relic and thusly has not matured beyond the 1980's.
One of my favorite quotes right now is Max Planck, "Science advances one funeral at a time". I think that applies equally to medicine.
How about "Science advances one bleeding wrist media report at a time."?
I don't think Max Planck ever said that.
And that makes me sad. Me ---> :sad:
This has been one of my pet causes for awhile now. I've turned into that dickhead who will, upon being invited into someone's home and told to make themselves welcome, come back from the bathroom and lecture my hosts about how they're dooming us all to some horrible bacterial apocalypse because of the ridiculous anti-bacterial hand soap in the bathroom.
And the worst part is, when you explain it, most people don't care because marketing and buzzwords and BACTERIA BAD! ANTIBACTERIAL GOOD!
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on March 09, 2014, 07:10:21 AM
This has been one of my pet causes for awhile now. I've turned into that dickhead who will, upon being invited into someone's home and told to make themselves welcome, come back from the bathroom and lecture my hosts about how they're dooming us all to some horrible bacterial apocalypse because of the ridiculous anti-bacterial hand soap in the bathroom.
And the worst part is, when you explain it, most people don't care because marketing and buzzwords and BACTERIA BAD! ANTIBACTERIAL GOOD!
I'm banking on some antibiotic resistant superbug plague wiping out all the anti-bacteria/antibiotic freaks and leaving only the ones with a functional immune system, thereby making the world significantly less stupid, on aggregate, overnight :evil:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 09, 2014, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on March 09, 2014, 07:10:21 AM
This has been one of my pet causes for awhile now. I've turned into that dickhead who will, upon being invited into someone's home and told to make themselves welcome, come back from the bathroom and lecture my hosts about how they're dooming us all to some horrible bacterial apocalypse because of the ridiculous anti-bacterial hand soap in the bathroom.
And the worst part is, when you explain it, most people don't care because marketing and buzzwords and BACTERIA BAD! ANTIBACTERIAL GOOD!
I'm banking on some antibiotic resistant superbug plague wiping out all the anti-bacteria/antibiotic freaks and leaving only the ones with a functional immune system, thereby making the world significantly less stupid, on aggregate, overnight :evil:
That's not how it works. The antibacterial shit kills 99%+ of the germs, instead of just cleaning the germs off and sending them down the drain.
So the only germs left to multiply are the Lou Ferrignos of the germ world.
Every time you use that stuff, you're building a better bug.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 09, 2014, 04:06:38 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 09, 2014, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on March 09, 2014, 07:10:21 AM
This has been one of my pet causes for awhile now. I've turned into that dickhead who will, upon being invited into someone's home and told to make themselves welcome, come back from the bathroom and lecture my hosts about how they're dooming us all to some horrible bacterial apocalypse because of the ridiculous anti-bacterial hand soap in the bathroom.
And the worst part is, when you explain it, most people don't care because marketing and buzzwords and BACTERIA BAD! ANTIBACTERIAL GOOD!
I'm banking on some antibiotic resistant superbug plague wiping out all the anti-bacteria/antibiotic freaks and leaving only the ones with a functional immune system, thereby making the world significantly less stupid, on aggregate, overnight :evil:
That's not how it works. The antibacterial shit kills 99%+ of the germs, instead of just cleaning the germs off and sending them down the drain.
So the only germs left to multiply are the Lou Ferrignos of the germ world.
Every time you use that stuff, you're building a better bug.
I was under the impression that you are building a more antibiotic-resistant bug. It doesn't follow that they'd be more resistant to a crack team of white blood cells who are used to taking care of business without the aid of antibiotics.
As George Carlin said - "The polio never had a prayer; we were tempered in raw shit"
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 09, 2014, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 09, 2014, 04:06:38 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 09, 2014, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on March 09, 2014, 07:10:21 AM
This has been one of my pet causes for awhile now. I've turned into that dickhead who will, upon being invited into someone's home and told to make themselves welcome, come back from the bathroom and lecture my hosts about how they're dooming us all to some horrible bacterial apocalypse because of the ridiculous anti-bacterial hand soap in the bathroom.
And the worst part is, when you explain it, most people don't care because marketing and buzzwords and BACTERIA BAD! ANTIBACTERIAL GOOD!
I'm banking on some antibiotic resistant superbug plague wiping out all the anti-bacteria/antibiotic freaks and leaving only the ones with a functional immune system, thereby making the world significantly less stupid, on aggregate, overnight :evil:
That's not how it works. The antibacterial shit kills 99%+ of the germs, instead of just cleaning the germs off and sending them down the drain.
So the only germs left to multiply are the Lou Ferrignos of the germ world.
Every time you use that stuff, you're building a better bug.
I was under the impression that you are building a more antibiotic-resistant bug. It doesn't follow that they'd be more resistant to a crack team of white blood cells who are used to taking care of business without the aid of antibiotics.
As George Carlin said - "The polio never had a prayer; we were tempered in raw shit"
They tend to be generally hardier strains that are more virulent and harder to kill regardless of who contracts them. For example, look at MRSA, and the hypervirulent e. coli strains that are coming out of cattle farms.
There is a big difference between antibiotic medication and antibacterial handsoap. The first breeds superbugs, the latter just dries out your skin. You might as well wash your hands with pure alcohol: it definitly kills all bacteria on your hands but it won't breed bacteria that can live inside whiskey.
Unless you are talking about handsoap that has antibiotics in them, in which case: WTF! KILL ME NOW FOR I CANNOT HANDLE THE STUPID.
Quote from: :regret: on March 09, 2014, 06:26:28 PM
There is a big difference between antibiotic medication and antibacterial handsoap. The first breeds superbugs, the latter just dries out your skin. You might as well wash your hands with pure alcohol: it definitly kills all bacteria on your hands but it won't breed bacteria that can live inside whiskey.
Unless you are talking about handsoap that has antibiotics in them, in which case: WTF! KILL ME NOW FOR I CANNOT HANDLE THE STUPID.
Yes, there is a difference, but also your reasoning is incorrect, because antibacterial cleaners can also have the side effects of leaving harder-to-kill bacteria alive to reproduce.
However, it's probably worth pointing out that there isn't really a whole lot of evidence for a higher rate of selection for drug-resistant bacteria in homes that use antibacterial soaps. The big issues are largely hospitals and feedlots.
Then again, there hasn't been a whole lot of research, either.
Sweet I learned a lot in this thread , and destroyed a few misconceptions of super-bugs.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 09, 2014, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on March 09, 2014, 07:10:21 AM
This has been one of my pet causes for awhile now. I've turned into that dickhead who will, upon being invited into someone's home and told to make themselves welcome, come back from the bathroom and lecture my hosts about how they're dooming us all to some horrible bacterial apocalypse because of the ridiculous anti-bacterial hand soap in the bathroom.
And the worst part is, when you explain it, most people don't care because marketing and buzzwords and BACTERIA BAD! ANTIBACTERIAL GOOD!
I'm banking on some antibiotic resistant superbug plague wiping out all the anti-bacteria/antibiotic freaks and leaving only the ones with a functional immune system, thereby making the world significantly less stupid, on aggregate, overnight :evil:
That'd be a great plan if the entire world consisted only of places where stupid white people buy antibacterial soap.
And AFAIK, most antibacterial soaps contain triclosan.
Quote from: Tom on March 09, 2014, 06:47:33 PM
However, it's probably worth pointing out that there isn't really a whole lot of evidence for a higher rate of selection for drug-resistant bacteria in homes that use antibacterial soaps. The big issues are largely hospitals and feedlots.
Then again, there hasn't been a whole lot of research, either.
Very much this.
My brother is doing research into MRSA in hospitals and trying to develop methods to reduce their spread.
I should badger him more to let me read some of it.