well, crap:
SETI Institute suspends search for aliens (http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_17926565)
If E.T. phones Earth, he'll get a "disconnect" signal.
Lacking the money to pay its operating expenses, Mountain View's SETI Institute has pulled the plug on the renowned Allen Telescope Array, a field of radio dishes -- popularized in the Jodie Foster film "Contact" -- that scan the skies for signals from extraterrestrial civilizations.
In an April 22 letter to donors, SETI Institute CEO Tom Pierson said that last week the array was put into "hibernation," safe but nonfunctioning, because of inadequate government support.
The timing couldn't be worse, say SETI scientists. After millenniums of musings, this spring astronomers announced that 1,235 new possible planets had been observed by Kepler, a telescope on a space satellite. They predict that dozens of these planets will be Earth-sized -- and some will be in the "habitable zone," where the temperatures are just right for liquid water, a prerequisite of life as we know it.
"There is a huge irony," said SETI Director Jill Tartar, "that a time when we discover so many planets to look at, we don't have the operating funds to listen."
SETI senior astronomer Seth Shostak compared the project's suspension to "the Niña, Pinta and Santa Maria being put into dry dock. "... This is about exploration, and we want to keep the thing operational. It's no good to have it sit idle.
"We have the radio antennae up, but we can't run them without operating funds," he added.
Advertisement
"Honestly, if everybody contributed just 3 extra cents on their 1040 tax forms, we could find out if we have cosmic company."
The SETI Institute's mission is to explore the origin, nature and prevalence of life in the universe. This is a profound search, it believes, because it explains our place among the stars.
The program, located on U.S. Forest Service land near Mount Shasta, uses telescopes to listen for anything out of the ordinary -- a numerical sequence of "beeps," say, or crackly dialogue from an alien version of a disembodied "Charlie" talking to his "Angels." The entire program was set up to prove what once seemed unthinkable: In the universe, we are not alone.
Lack of funding
But funding for SETI has long been a headache for E.T.-seekers. NASA bankrolled some early projects, but in 1994, Sen. Richard Bryan of Nevada convinced Congress that it wasn't worth the cost, calling it the "Great Martian Chase" and complaining that not a single flying saucer had applied for FAA approval.
However, successful private funding came from donors such as Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, allowing SETI to raise $50 million to build the 42 dishes.
Plans called for construction of 350 individual radio antennas, all working in concert. But what's lacking now is funding to support the day-to-day costs of running the dishes.
This is the responsibility of UC Berkeley's Radio Astronomy Laboratory, but one of the university's major funders, the National Science Foundation, supplied only one-tenth its previous support. Meanwhile, the state of California has also cut funding.
About $5 million is needed over the next two years, according to Tarter. She hopes the U.S. Air Force will help, because the array can be used to track satellite-threatening debris in space. But budgets are tight there as well.
Astronomers mourn
The Allen array is not the only radio telescope facility that can be used for SETI searches. But it is the best; elsewhere, scientists have to borrow time on other telescopes.
Meanwhile, other SETI projects will continue, such as the "setiQuest Explorer" (www.setiquest.org), an application that allows citizen scientist volunteers to look for patterns from existing data that might have been missed by existing algorithms. Through a new partnership with "Galaxy Zoo" (www.galaxyzoo.org), this project runs in real time, so discoveries can be followed up on immediately.
Bay Area astronomers mourned the hiatus of the SETI program and expressed concern about the future.
Rob Hawley of the Peninsula Astronomical Society called it "unfortunate. The Allen scope was a wonderful experiment. "... Hubble gets all the press, but there are lots of limitations."
Amateur astronomer Sarah Wiehe of Palo Alto said, "just knowing SETI is there was significant for us. This is a setback."
"If we miss a distant signal," she added, "it would be a terrible loss."
what it means
SETI's mission to explore the prevalence of life in the universe, including about 1,235 possible planets recently discovered, is compromised, according to scientists.
what's next
The program needs about $5 million over the next two years to support the telescope facility.
online extra
To learn more about SETI and its programs, go to www.seti.org.
they're suspending it over 5 million dollars?!
that's some bullshit right thar!
:argh!:
Quote from: Iptuous on April 26, 2011, 02:17:43 PM
they're suspending it over 5 million dollars?!
that's some bullshit right thar!
:argh!:
Thanks, Teabaggers! :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 03:09:54 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 26, 2011, 02:17:43 PM
they're suspending it over 5 million dollars?!
that's some bullshit right thar!
:argh!:
Thanks, Teabaggers! :lulz:
:?
SETI doesn't receive public funding and hasn't since 94, due to a Democrat cutting it out of the budget. I'm all for bashing stupid budget cuts to good science programs, but this has nothing to do with the Teabaggers.
SO much for using the array to call Russian 900 numbers.
:crankey:
Those bastards. One of the things that really should be kept alive and kicking, but instead it gets shut down.
Quote
SETI doesn't receive public funding and hasn't since 94, due to a Democrat cutting it out of the budget. I'm all for bashing stupid budget cuts to good science programs, but this has nothing to do with the Teabaggers.
The folks who donate the money to SETI are getting the budget cuts. So they're giving less to SETI.
EDIT: This is just a guess on my part, not a fact.
Quote from: Disco Pickle on April 26, 2011, 03:20:48 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 03:09:54 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 26, 2011, 02:17:43 PM
they're suspending it over 5 million dollars?!
that's some bullshit right thar!
:argh!:
Thanks, Teabaggers! :lulz:
:?
SETI doesn't receive public funding and hasn't since 94, due to a Democrat cutting it out of the budget. I'm all for bashing stupid budget cuts to good science programs, but this has nothing to do with the Teabaggers.
Link?
QuoteLink?
Just a guess. Sorry should have phrased it like one. My bad.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 04:11:55 PM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on April 26, 2011, 03:20:48 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 03:09:54 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 26, 2011, 02:17:43 PM
they're suspending it over 5 million dollars?!
that's some bullshit right thar!
:argh!:
Thanks, Teabaggers! :lulz:
:?
SETI doesn't receive public funding and hasn't since 94, due to a Democrat cutting it out of the budget. I'm all for bashing stupid budget cuts to good science programs, but this has nothing to do with the Teabaggers.
Link?
I can find one if you'd like, but it's in the text of the OP.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on April 26, 2011, 04:06:42 PM
:crankey:
Those bastards. One of the things that really should be kept alive and kicking, but instead it gets shut down.
Quote
SETI doesn't receive public funding and hasn't since 94, due to a Democrat cutting it out of the budget. I'm all for bashing stupid budget cuts to good science programs, but this has nothing to do with the Teabaggers.
The folks who donate the money to SETI are getting the budget cuts. So they're giving less to SETI.
Got it. Apparently the NSF received a 1% cut, when they had requested an increase. The good news is:
QuoteA 2010 law puts NSF's budget on a 10-year doubling track by 2016
that from here: http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/04/nsf-gets-1-trim-in-2011-but-new-.html
Quote
The figure may be $563 million below its 2011 request, and a cool $1 billion south of where the Obama Administration wants the National Science Foundation's budget to be in 2012. But NSF will be able to preserve most of its programs after applying the $65-million cut to its current budget that is part of the deal struck last weekend between Congress and the White House.
The agreement gives NSF an overall budget of $6.81 billion for fiscal year 2011, which runs until 30 September. Its research account was trimmed by $53 million, to $5.51 billion, and its education directorate saw $12 million shaved from its $873 million budget in 2010. That amounts to a reduction of 1%, rather than the administration's planned increase of 7.6%.
As a result, NSF officials expect to make 134 fewer awards and support 1500 fewer researchers, students, teachers, and technical support personnel than the agency did last year. The shortfall from the president's 2011 request, they calculate, is 1450 awards and 16,700 researchers, students, teachers, and technical support personnel.
A 2010 law puts NSF's budget on a 10-year doubling track by 2016, which in the current fiscal climate seems a real stretch. Even so, NSF's fiscal outlook is much brighter than it was 2 months ago. That's when the Republican-controlled House of Representatives approved a 2011 budget that would have lowered NSF's budget by $300 million, to $6.57 billion. Last month a Senate appropriations panel marked up a spending bill that would have given NSF $6.85 billion. Although that measure was defeated on the floor, the number is very close to the tally in this week's final agreement.
What happened? Science lobbyists say they don't know what turned the tide. But they are certainly thankful for the support that Congress showed for the nation's only agency whose sole mission is funding basic research across the scientific and engineering disciplines. "I can't attribute it," says Michael Lubell of the American Physical Society. "There's a recognition [of the value of science] in the Senate, and we know the administration has really fought for these programs throughout."
Tobin Smith, of the Association of American Universities, also points to Representative Frank Wolf (R-VA), chair of the House spending panel that oversees NSF and several other science agencies. "You can't discount the role that Frank Wolf played in helping the agency," says Smith. He and Lubell surmise that House Republicans were more passionate about cutting environmental and energy programs, cutting funding to pay for the enforcement of regulations, and trimming infrastructure spending than taking an axe to science. So in negotiations, suggests Lubell, keeping science agencies funded was more important to Democrats than cutting them was to Republicans.
Next up is the 2012 budget, and Lubell foresees tough sledding for NSF's proposed massive increase. "The lion's share [of the cuts] are going to be felt by NSF," he predicts. "We'll see whether the same people who rose to the challenge for the 2011 budget come through again."
So SETI does get public funds, just in a roundabout way.
Roger, you are correct.
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
NOT AS NECESSARY AS MORE TAX CUTS.
\
:rush:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 26, 2011, 04:23:14 PM
NOT AS NECESSARY AS MORE TAX CUTS.
\
:rush:
LOL, that's not what I said... :lulz:
but I do love watching bouncy Rush :D
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
Well
I'm of two minds about that. One is that yeah, it's cool but not necessary.
The other is, what if the other life forms in the galaxy are LIKE US.
Some kind of early warning system would be awesome.
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2011, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
Well
I'm of two minds about that. One is that yeah, it's cool but not necessary.
The other is, what if the other life forms in the galaxy are LIKE US.
Some kind of early warning system would be awesome.
:lulz:
QuoteWait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
It's one of those things I think is going to prove really useful in the long run. If there are other things out there, it'd be kind of nice to know they exist. In case they turn out to be dangerous, we're prepared, if they're peaceful we can deal. Thought given humanity's track record, I'd probably guess we'd try to kill them at the first opportunity.
Along with that look at the article. They're not just looking for lifeforms. They're also finding inhabitable planets.
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2011, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
Well
I'm of two minds about that. One is that yeah, it's cool but not necessary.
The other is, what if the other life forms in the galaxy are LIKE US.
Some kind of early warning system would be awesome.
:potd:
Ok Nigel, you win teh debate :lulz:
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
The space program let a dozen spags play golf on the moon. The payoff was a PILE of fucking technology that revolutionized industry.
Someone has to fund "pure science", and it sure as hell isn't going to be the Koch brothers.
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2011, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
Well
I'm of two minds about that. One is that yeah, it's cool but not necessary.
The other is, what if the other life forms in the galaxy are LIKE US.
Some kind of early warning system would be awesome.
SO WE CAN GET THE BASTARDS FIRST! THEY'RE AFTER
OUR GALAXY! :jihaad:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
The space program let a dozen spags play golf on the moon. The payoff was a PILE of fucking technology that revolutionized industry.
Someone has to fund "pure science", and it sure as hell isn't going to be the Koch brothers.
I don't disagree with that... 'pure science' is necessary. This particular exercise, maybe not as necessary as others.
Besides, they were playing golf on the moon, mostly to stick it to the Russians :lulz:
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
The space program let a dozen spags play golf on the moon. The payoff was a PILE of fucking technology that revolutionized industry.
Someone has to fund "pure science", and it sure as hell isn't going to be the Koch brothers.
I don't disagree with that... 'pure science' is necessary. This particular exercise, maybe not as necessary as others.
Besides, they were playing golf on the moon, mostly to stick it to the Russians :lulz:
The intent or purpose of the research doesn't matter (within reason: I agree with the decision to destroy Mengele's research, for example). The moon race was a cynical game of one-upmanship, but it gave us computers, modern plastics & metalurgies , and a shitpile of medical advances.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
The space program let a dozen spags play golf on the moon. The payoff was a PILE of fucking technology that revolutionized industry.
Someone has to fund "pure science", and it sure as hell isn't going to be the Koch brothers.
I don't disagree with that... 'pure science' is necessary. This particular exercise, maybe not as necessary as others.
Besides, they were playing golf on the moon, mostly to stick it to the Russians :lulz:
The intent or purpose of the research doesn't matter (within reason: I agree with the decision to destroy Mengele's research, for example). The moon race was a cynical game of one-upmanship, but it gave us computers, modern plastics & metalurgies , and a shitpile of medical advances.
Agreed... from 1598 to 1969 we made huge leaps in awesome technology... which have impacted us to this day.
From 1985 to now (the legth of SETI) we gotten... ummm... a really cool screensaver.
I approve of science for science sake, but this particular project seems like "Nice to have' rather than a "Wow, thats really really important stuff" kind of thing to me.
If they have the money to throw at it, sweet... if they don't well, right now money is tight for most people, including the government. Once we're all snorting coke with $100 bills, we should absolutely be looking for ET, cause he probably has some really good drugs on his planet (I mean heel, remember in the movie, I bet he's got a killer hydro lab) :D
Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit there... if private funding can keep them up, cool... but I've got to think that there might be some other Science for Science sake projects that might be a better return on investment.
I see it as a long-shot program that has a potential payoff so high that ROIs stop mattering.
I like that kind of program.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:26:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
The space program let a dozen spags play golf on the moon. The payoff was a PILE of fucking technology that revolutionized industry.
Someone has to fund "pure science", and it sure as hell isn't going to be the Koch brothers.
I don't disagree with that... 'pure science' is necessary. This particular exercise, maybe not as necessary as others.
Besides, they were playing golf on the moon, mostly to stick it to the Russians :lulz:
The intent or purpose of the research doesn't matter (within reason: I agree with the decision to destroy Mengele's research, for example). The moon race was a cynical game of one-upmanship, but it gave us computers, modern plastics & metalurgies , and a shitpile of medical advances.
Agreed... from 1598 to 1969 we made huge leaps in awesome technology... which have impacted us to this day.
From 1985 to now (the legth of SETI) we gotten... ummm... a really cool screensaver.
I approve of science for science sake, but this particular project seems like "Nice to have' rather than a "Wow, thats really really important stuff" kind of thing to me.
If they have the money to throw at it, sweet... if they don't well, right now money is tight for most people, including the government. Once we're all snorting coke with $100 bills, we should absolutely be looking for ET, cause he probably has some really good drugs on his planet (I mean heel, remember in the movie, I bet he's got a killer hydro lab) :D
Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit there... if private funding can keep them up, cool... but I've got to think that there might be some other Science for Science sake projects that might be a better return on investment.
There have been more
technological advances since 1985 than there was in the entire previous recorded history of the world, driven by bedrock research done from ~ 1600AD to the present.
Just saying.
Also, there's more physics being done based on deep-space data than on anything other than colliders and possibly material sciences...and physics IS pure science. Everything else is engineering of one form or another.
Yeah, Hubble was recently gathering data that is helping dark matter researchers.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:26:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
The space program let a dozen spags play golf on the moon. The payoff was a PILE of fucking technology that revolutionized industry.
Someone has to fund "pure science", and it sure as hell isn't going to be the Koch brothers.
I don't disagree with that... 'pure science' is necessary. This particular exercise, maybe not as necessary as others.
Besides, they were playing golf on the moon, mostly to stick it to the Russians :lulz:
The intent or purpose of the research doesn't matter (within reason: I agree with the decision to destroy Mengele's research, for example). The moon race was a cynical game of one-upmanship, but it gave us computers, modern plastics & metalurgies , and a shitpile of medical advances.
Agreed... from 1598 to 1969 we made huge leaps in awesome technology... which have impacted us to this day.
From 1985 to now (the legth of SETI) we gotten... ummm... a really cool screensaver.
I approve of science for science sake, but this particular project seems like "Nice to have' rather than a "Wow, thats really really important stuff" kind of thing to me.
If they have the money to throw at it, sweet... if they don't well, right now money is tight for most people, including the government. Once we're all snorting coke with $100 bills, we should absolutely be looking for ET, cause he probably has some really good drugs on his planet (I mean heel, remember in the movie, I bet he's got a killer hydro lab) :D
Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit there... if private funding can keep them up, cool... but I've got to think that there might be some other Science for Science sake projects that might be a better return on investment.
There have been more technological advances since 1985 than there was in the entire previous recorded history of the world, driven by bedrock research done from ~ 1600AD to the present.
Just saying.
Also, there's more physics being done based on deep-space data than on anything other than colliders and possibly material sciences...and physics IS pure science. Everything else is engineering of one form or another.
Sure I can agree with that.
Maybe if they were billing it as 'deep-space data collection' rather than 'Let's see if ET is out there' it would sound better :)
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 06:29:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:26:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
The space program let a dozen spags play golf on the moon. The payoff was a PILE of fucking technology that revolutionized industry.
Someone has to fund "pure science", and it sure as hell isn't going to be the Koch brothers.
I don't disagree with that... 'pure science' is necessary. This particular exercise, maybe not as necessary as others.
Besides, they were playing golf on the moon, mostly to stick it to the Russians :lulz:
The intent or purpose of the research doesn't matter (within reason: I agree with the decision to destroy Mengele's research, for example). The moon race was a cynical game of one-upmanship, but it gave us computers, modern plastics & metalurgies , and a shitpile of medical advances.
Agreed... from 1598 to 1969 we made huge leaps in awesome technology... which have impacted us to this day.
From 1985 to now (the legth of SETI) we gotten... ummm... a really cool screensaver.
I approve of science for science sake, but this particular project seems like "Nice to have' rather than a "Wow, thats really really important stuff" kind of thing to me.
If they have the money to throw at it, sweet... if they don't well, right now money is tight for most people, including the government. Once we're all snorting coke with $100 bills, we should absolutely be looking for ET, cause he probably has some really good drugs on his planet (I mean heel, remember in the movie, I bet he's got a killer hydro lab) :D
Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit there... if private funding can keep them up, cool... but I've got to think that there might be some other Science for Science sake projects that might be a better return on investment.
There have been more technological advances since 1985 than there was in the entire previous recorded history of the world, driven by bedrock research done from ~ 1600AD to the present.
Just saying.
Also, there's more physics being done based on deep-space data than on anything other than colliders and possibly material sciences...and physics IS pure science. Everything else is engineering of one form or another.
Sure I can agree with that.
Maybe if they were billing it as 'deep-space data collection' rather than 'Let's see if ET is out there' it would sound better :)
So, the problem isn't funding or pure research, it's finding a sexier name for the program?
Soon we'll need naked anchorwomen just to get people to watch the news.
Oh, and Sex Puppets for the kiddies.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 06:55:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 06:29:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:26:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 04:20:56 PM
Wait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
I mean, its not like we're expecting "Yo, Earthlings, for a good time and cool science call 23-4-25 on your local SETI phone now!"
At best we're maybe gonna someday see a pattern that can't possibly be generated by accident... and that will be proof (for people willing to accept it as proof) that we aren't alone, or at least weren't alone at some point in the very distant past.
Its an awesome project, but with climate change, world unrest, a fucked up economy and everything else, is it 'necessary'?
Cool, Hell yes. Necessary? I dunno about that.
The space program let a dozen spags play golf on the moon. The payoff was a PILE of fucking technology that revolutionized industry.
Someone has to fund "pure science", and it sure as hell isn't going to be the Koch brothers.
I don't disagree with that... 'pure science' is necessary. This particular exercise, maybe not as necessary as others.
Besides, they were playing golf on the moon, mostly to stick it to the Russians :lulz:
The intent or purpose of the research doesn't matter (within reason: I agree with the decision to destroy Mengele's research, for example). The moon race was a cynical game of one-upmanship, but it gave us computers, modern plastics & metalurgies , and a shitpile of medical advances.
Agreed... from 1598 to 1969 we made huge leaps in awesome technology... which have impacted us to this day.
From 1985 to now (the legth of SETI) we gotten... ummm... a really cool screensaver.
I approve of science for science sake, but this particular project seems like "Nice to have' rather than a "Wow, thats really really important stuff" kind of thing to me.
If they have the money to throw at it, sweet... if they don't well, right now money is tight for most people, including the government. Once we're all snorting coke with $100 bills, we should absolutely be looking for ET, cause he probably has some really good drugs on his planet (I mean heel, remember in the movie, I bet he's got a killer hydro lab) :D
Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit there... if private funding can keep them up, cool... but I've got to think that there might be some other Science for Science sake projects that might be a better return on investment.
There have been more technological advances since 1985 than there was in the entire previous recorded history of the world, driven by bedrock research done from ~ 1600AD to the present.
Just saying.
Also, there's more physics being done based on deep-space data than on anything other than colliders and possibly material sciences...and physics IS pure science. Everything else is engineering of one form or another.
Sure I can agree with that.
Maybe if they were billing it as 'deep-space data collection' rather than 'Let's see if ET is out there' it would sound better :)
So, the problem isn't funding or pure research, it's finding a sexier name for the program?
Nah, there's no problem either way, but if money is tight... I think I'd pick "Pure research for going to Mars..." "Pure research for finding X interesting Physics thing" etc than "Pure research for listening to see if ET has a decent DJ for the Morning drive time." :)
Going to Mars seems like a useful direction, straight up study of particle physics, deep-space data etc seems like its useful... focusing on aliens that may or may not exist, by using a method that is truly searching for a needle in a haystack the size of the universe... seems lower on the priority list. I don't think its a waste of money, but if money is tight... I'd rather see that dropped than research into alternative fuel ideas, the mission to Mars or colliders.
Maybe I'm short sighted... but with the problems facing us right now, survival and short term successes seem far more important than catching a millions year old signal that might be from intelligent life.
You're talking in jest, but that may be just the thing. SETI is so dry.
Call it, "If We Succeed, You Will Owe Us Your Lives, You Mother Fuckers".
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 07:04:48 PM
Nah, there's no problem either way, but if money is tight... I think I'd pick "Pure research for going to Mars..." "Pure research for finding X interesting Physics thing" etc than "Pure research for listening to see if ET has a decent DJ for the Morning drive time." :)
Going to Mars seems like a useful direction, straight up study of particle physics, deep-space data etc seems like its useful... focusing on aliens that may or may not exist, by using a method that is truly searching for a needle in a haystack the size of the universe... seems lower on the priority list. I don't think its a waste of money, but if money is tight... I'd rather see that dropped than research into alternative fuel ideas, the mission to Mars or colliders.
Maybe I'm short sighted... but with the problems facing us right now, survival and short term successes seem far more important than catching a millions year old signal that might be from intelligent life.
Sure. We need that 13th aircraft carrier (no shit, we're building another one) to fight Zombie Tojo's fleet, so out the door with SETI. We didn't need those engineering advances produced in the development of their equipment, anyway.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 07:07:28 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 07:04:48 PM
Nah, there's no problem either way, but if money is tight... I think I'd pick "Pure research for going to Mars..." "Pure research for finding X interesting Physics thing" etc than "Pure research for listening to see if ET has a decent DJ for the Morning drive time." :)
Going to Mars seems like a useful direction, straight up study of particle physics, deep-space data etc seems like its useful... focusing on aliens that may or may not exist, by using a method that is truly searching for a needle in a haystack the size of the universe... seems lower on the priority list. I don't think its a waste of money, but if money is tight... I'd rather see that dropped than research into alternative fuel ideas, the mission to Mars or colliders.
Maybe I'm short sighted... but with the problems facing us right now, survival and short term successes seem far more important than catching a millions year old signal that might be from intelligent life.
Sure. We need that 13th aircraft carrier (no shit, we're building another one) to fight Zombie Tojo's fleet, so out the door with SETI. We didn't need those engineering advances produced in the development of their equipment, anyway.
lol. Aircraft carriers.
"You know what I want? I want a skyscraper that I can drive to Kuwait. And I want to launch planes off it."
Fucking pentagon.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 07:07:28 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 07:04:48 PM
Nah, there's no problem either way, but if money is tight... I think I'd pick "Pure research for going to Mars..." "Pure research for finding X interesting Physics thing" etc than "Pure research for listening to see if ET has a decent DJ for the Morning drive time." :)
Going to Mars seems like a useful direction, straight up study of particle physics, deep-space data etc seems like its useful... focusing on aliens that may or may not exist, by using a method that is truly searching for a needle in a haystack the size of the universe... seems lower on the priority list. I don't think its a waste of money, but if money is tight... I'd rather see that dropped than research into alternative fuel ideas, the mission to Mars or colliders.
Maybe I'm short sighted... but with the problems facing us right now, survival and short term successes seem far more important than catching a millions year old signal that might be from intelligent life.
Sure. We need that 13th aircraft carrier (no shit, we're building another one) to fight Zombie Tojo's fleet, so out the door with SETI. We didn't need those engineering advances produced in the development of their equipment, anyway.
No, I don't think we need that either. Like I said, clean energy would be a nice place to drop all that cash (including for the aircraft carrier and the new 'HOLISHIT how many billion did you say' fighter jets)
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2011, 07:10:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 07:07:28 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 07:04:48 PM
Nah, there's no problem either way, but if money is tight... I think I'd pick "Pure research for going to Mars..." "Pure research for finding X interesting Physics thing" etc than "Pure research for listening to see if ET has a decent DJ for the Morning drive time." :)
Going to Mars seems like a useful direction, straight up study of particle physics, deep-space data etc seems like its useful... focusing on aliens that may or may not exist, by using a method that is truly searching for a needle in a haystack the size of the universe... seems lower on the priority list. I don't think its a waste of money, but if money is tight... I'd rather see that dropped than research into alternative fuel ideas, the mission to Mars or colliders.
Maybe I'm short sighted... but with the problems facing us right now, survival and short term successes seem far more important than catching a millions year old signal that might be from intelligent life.
Sure. We need that 13th aircraft carrier (no shit, we're building another one) to fight Zombie Tojo's fleet, so out the door with SETI. We didn't need those engineering advances produced in the development of their equipment, anyway.
lol. Aircraft carriers.
"You know what I want? I want a skyscraper that I can drive to Kuwait. And I want to launch planes off it."
Fucking pentagon.
"Fuck those drones, we have to be ready for 60 years ago! We can't allow an anachronism gap!"
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 07:14:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 26, 2011, 07:07:28 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 26, 2011, 07:04:48 PM
Nah, there's no problem either way, but if money is tight... I think I'd pick "Pure research for going to Mars..." "Pure research for finding X interesting Physics thing" etc than "Pure research for listening to see if ET has a decent DJ for the Morning drive time." :)
Going to Mars seems like a useful direction, straight up study of particle physics, deep-space data etc seems like its useful... focusing on aliens that may or may not exist, by using a method that is truly searching for a needle in a haystack the size of the universe... seems lower on the priority list. I don't think its a waste of money, but if money is tight... I'd rather see that dropped than research into alternative fuel ideas, the mission to Mars or colliders.
Maybe I'm short sighted... but with the problems facing us right now, survival and short term successes seem far more important than catching a millions year old signal that might be from intelligent life.
Sure. We need that 13th aircraft carrier (no shit, we're building another one) to fight Zombie Tojo's fleet, so out the door with SETI. We didn't need those engineering advances produced in the development of their equipment, anyway.
No, I don't think we need that either. Like I said, clean energy would be a nice place to drop all that cash (including for the aircraft carrier and the new 'HOLISHIT how many billion did you say' fighter jets)
We HAVE clean energy technology.
Nobody wants it.
I'd just like to point out that it's only $5 MILLION dollars!!!
this is fucking peanuts!
lookie here... NASA awards 269.3 Million to stimulate commercial development of craft:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/04/four-companies-win-nasas-ccdev-2-awards/
soooo. why not award 264.3 Million for this endeavor, and still keep SETI?!
also, one good reason to keep SETI: it inspires kids when they hear about it to learn more. that is a good ROI in my opinion.
I'm betting that SETI gets bought up.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2011, 07:48:41 PM
I'm betting that SETI gets bought up.
Heh. There's no commercial interest.
Maybe not, but as supervillain lairs go...
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on April 26, 2011, 04:32:47 PM
QuoteWait, why is this specifically something that "shouldn't be shut down"?
It's one of those things I think is going to prove really useful in the long run. If there are other things out there, it'd be kind of nice to know they exist. In case they turn out to be dangerous, we're prepared, if they're peaceful we can deal. Thought given humanity's track record, I'd probably guess we'd try to kill them at the first opportunity.
Along with that look at the article. They're not just looking for lifeforms. They're also finding inhabitable planets.
Minor correction: The article says that SETI wants to listen to planets, which may be inhabitable, and therefore inhabited, that were discovered by the Kepler telescope.
However, I do support the further funding of SETI for the reasons ITT.
A TED Talk about SETI from 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EszGIvRdgTE